Oman contract

[Al R]

BBC News - BAE Systems wins £2.5bn Oman Hawk and Typhoon contract (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20808517)

Nice news to go into the BAE xmas Friday beer call with.



BAE Systems, the UK aerospace company, has won a £2.5bn aircraft contract with the Sultanate of Oman. BAE will provide 12 Typhoon and eight Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer aircraft.

[Heathrow Harry]

Gawd bless Sultan Qaboos!!!

:D:D

[RandomBlah]

You don't get a lot for £2.5 Billion nowadays do you? Or is it just BAe that offer such value for money?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

£2.5bn includes the baksheesh. Bargain really.

[A2QFI]

Indeed Fox3! Having been involved in delivering and then flying BAe aircraft in the Middle East and then having worked for BAe in Middle East sales I have seen both sides of the story, so to speak. Of course as BAe have never been involved in irregular payments of any sort I can't be sure what it was that I saw!

[Squirrel 41]

Must include a mahoosive spares, weapons and support package.... or a lot of "facilitation". Even if you accept that full up cost (including R&D) wiki reckons £125m a copy x 12 = £1.5bn - BUT £65m seems much more reasonable: meaning £0.8bn. Add in Hawk at say £25m a copy x 8 = £0.2bn - leaving £1.5bn.

Wonder what they think they're buying?

S41

[Heathrow Harry]

"as BAe have never been involved in irregular payments of any sort"

so not the same BAe that was fined for irregularities in Tanzania, Saudi & other places then........................ :ouch::ouch:

[Heathrow Harry]

"Wonder what they think they're buying?"

probably life time costs in the same sort of 2008 dollars JSFfan uses to tell us the F-35 is on target (nay! under budget!) pricewise

[Biggus]

The BBC news article in the original link mentions "in-service support"!

No doubt this is responsible for most of the costs of the contract, especially if it is for a lengthy period.

[A2QFI]

Perhaps I should have made my heavy sarcasm even heavier! When I worked in sales the rule of thumb was that in the working life of an £X million aircraft the operating and maitenance costs would be £4X million, roughly

[Saintsman]

"as BAe have never been involved in irregular payments of any sort"


In some countries 'irregular' means regular. Normal business practices.

[Squirrel 41]

Saintsman - yes, but *VERY* silly if you're in the UK now with the 2010 Bribery Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery_Act_2010)....

S41

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I see your 2010 Bribery Act and raise you Dropping BAE inquiry vital to national interest, says Blair | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jan/16/bae.immigrationpolicy)

I know what my money (OK, the money in a brown envelope that just happened to appear in my overcoat when leaving the Club) is on should the press get too nosey again.

[Squirrel 41]

Fox3B,

Indeed, but Blair's actions predated the 2010 Act by some years.

S41

[phil9560]

Try being positive chaps.
Go on !
They're buying a good aircraft and we've sold it to them!

[AGS Man]

Big well done to the BAe sales team. Very nice Xmas Pressie. As for irregular payments I am reliably informed that they no longer happen. Now it's excuse me sir, you've just dropped the keys to your new Bentley!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

..or it's 'Consultancy Fees'.

Squirrel, I know it predated the Act. My point was that BAe were being investigated under the existing laws and Blair dropped the investigation. I have little doubt the same would happen again. And we all know a bureaucracy's answer to law breaking they can't/are unwilling to stop is to bring in even more laws (which won't get obeyed either).

[Heathrow Harry]

whilst on the subject of "irregular payments" a mate of mine works for a major accountancy firm - they're telling their clients that the UK, USA, Germany & the Scandinavians are passing details of "irregular payments" they come across to the others so that you may be clear under the (US) Corrupt Practices Act but the Brits can get you under their Bribery Act and vice versa................

[Temp Spike]

So who's going to fly them?

[Bob Viking]

I call shotgun on one of the Hawks.
BV

[Lima Juliet]

Good news for the Eurofrightner program. Does all this money go to BAES? Or does some go to Eurofighter?

Also, do they include weapons (ASRAAM/BVRAAM?) in the deal? Also, there is the AEA like helmet mounted sights, g-trousers and jerkin, etc... That might account for the rest of the cash?

LJ

[Biggus]

I don't know what the current situation is (although I'm sure someone on here will inform us shortly), but the initial intention, as part of the workshare agreement, was that exports would be new built aircraft, which would thereby benefit all the partner nations in the programme. For example, all export aircraft would still have had their left (or is it right?) wing built in Italy.

In the same way, individual nations were not supposed to sell their own aircraft on for export, as this would be doing partner nations our of their workshare, i.e. if Britain sells some of its aircraft the UK benefits but Italian workers suffer.

How that approach has changed over the years , given healthy does of realism and pragmatism, I don't know....

[Bill Macgillivray]

A good deal for BAe, I would suggest! Overall, I (and I am sure to be corrected!) think that BAe has probably got the better half of the deal. RAFO has had the Hawk for some years and always indicated that it was happy with the aircraft and intended to increase the numbers. As to the Typhoon, this was mooted some years ago but then all went quiet and eventually the F16 was purchased! I know that it is popular with the Omani pilots and confess that I am somewhat suprised that there has been the shift to Typhoon. However, make no mistake, there are many Omani pilots who are at least equivalent to their RAF counterparts, and who will be more than capable of operating the aircraft. Let us hope that this deal is benificial to both countries. For the moment I would suggest that Oman is probably our best ally in the Middle East!!:ok:

[Heathrow Harry]

I'd replace "best" with "only" TBH

[minigundiplomat]

If Oman is the UK's only ally in the area, then we are extremely fortunate. One very professional, reliable and loyal ally is worth any number of dubious high rollers. Some larger nations with notions of influence in the area could learn much from that simple fact.

[Lima Juliet]

MGD

I couldn't agree more. My first experience of Omanis was on Initial Officer Training, then a few exercises like MAGIC CARPET et al and then as a Detco in Seeb. It was a hugely positive experience each time and I have the hugest respect for them.

LJ

[Squirrel 41]

LJ,

Quite agree- the MAGIC CARPET I was involved in showed a force which was keen to learn and was (largely) prepared to put up a hand if mistakes were made - more than can be said for some others! The F-16s were clearly politically purchased to extend a hand to the US, and it was assumed then that there would be a Typhoon deal for the UK (IIRC to replace the Jags); it will be interesting to see if this is a ultimately a 36 aircraft deal.

S41

[High_Expect]

Your too late Bob. Already called shotgun, get in the Q. :-)

[Pure Pursuit]

Perhaps it's a little ignorant to suggest that Oman is our only ally in the Middle East.

The UAE are going out of their way to help the UK out. Minhad is not a small gesture from a country that has Iran looking it straight in the eye!

A Typhoon deal there may not be a million miles away either so let's not be hasty!

Merry Christmas to you all, especially those away from their families.

[Lima Juliet]

PP

I agree also. The UAE and Qatar are equally friendly, but I do have a softer spot for Oman and the Omanis. :ok:

LJ

[Jimlad1]

"The UAE are going out of their way to help the UK out. Minhad is not a small gesture from a country that has Iran looking it straight in the eye!"

but equally Minhad is also a useful message for the UAE to send to the Iranians to not play silly buggers...

[Dengue_Dude]

Alternatively . . . you COULD be glad that this deal and all its ramifications benefits UK industry rather than the other nationalities that would happily supply hardware and also have to deal in the Middle Eastern way in the Middle East.

It keeps a fair number of workers (NOTE. 'WORKERS') in UK jobs rather than just the fat-cats.

Well done BAES, more power to your elbow - even though the angles may vary . . . (think about it).

[Ron Cake]

I did a tour in Oman when it was called 'Muscat and Oman' and its Air Force consisted of seconded RAF pilots flying operations in armed Piston Provosts. There seemed no prospect of there ever being a home grown 'Omani' Air Force.

So it's really heartening to read all this praise for the present Omani Air Force and the professionalism of its pilots They've plainly come a long way over the past 40 or so years. I believe that in the early days the Omani Air Force was nurtured entirely by the RAF (pilot training in UK/loan service pilots etc). I expect that had a lot to do with it.

[Heathrow Harry]

the Sultan is British Army trained - and has always invested some his oil wealth in defence - the difference, compared to so many others around that part of the world, is that he has done it WISELY

a fit for purpose navy & airforce, a competent army - big enough to deter the Yemenis & the Saudis from interfering but not ridiculous

Although he is no democrat (possibly been listening to his old mate prince Charles) all in all he runs the place pretty well IMHO

[ORAC]

Typhoon May Be Back in Race for Qatar Order (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130327/DEFREG04/303270020/Typhoon-May-Back-Race-Qatar-Order?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s)

LONDON — Qatar has opened the door for the Eurofighter consortium to renew its bid for a combat jet order after having seemingly slipped from the contender’s list. The move comes in the wake of a visit by British government ministers to the gulf state last month.

Sources familiar with the fighter competition said the Qataris asked to evaluate the Typhoon following government-to-government discussions in Doha in late February. British Foreign Secretary William Hague and defense Procurement Minister Philip Dunn were in the Qatari capital separately for talks Feb 19. The official QNA news agency reported at the time that Hague’s discussions had centered on cooperation between the two nations and regional developments, mainly regarding Syria.

A BAE System spokesman confirmed the company was back in discussions with the Qatari government over the Typhoon, but declined to comment on whether it had been asked to take part in a flight evaluation. “Following our response to a request for proposals in 2010, discussions with Qatar on Typhoon were placed on hold while Qatar evaluated their future fighter aircraft requirement,” the spokesman said. “Through the U.K. government, discussions have recently been reinstated between ourselves and Qatar. We look forward to continuing the discussions on how Typhoon can best meet Qatar’s requirement.”

The move by Qatar marked the second time in a matter of weeks that the Typhoon’s chances of securing a new export customer have been revived. Earlier this month, Denmark gave its approval for Eurofighter to re-enter its fast jet competition after the consortium had previously walked away from the contest, citing dissatisfaction with the bidding process.

The Qatar Air Force has a long-standing requirement to replace its fleet of Dassault Aviation Mirage 2000s with about two squadrons of modern fighter jets. Until now, Boeing’s F/A-18 and F-15, and Dassault’s Rafale, have been the leading contenders. BAE, the Eurofighter consortium member leading the Qatari bid, also responded to that information request. EADS and Italy’s Finmeccanica are the other two industrial partners in Eurofighter.

According to a report in the Arabian Aerospace news service last November, the Rafale, F/A-18 and F-15 all underwent in-country flight evaluations last year. The media report said Typhoon had been scheduled for an evaluation in 2011, but the plan was scrapped when the Qatari Air Force joined the NATO-led operation in Libya. Until last month, a new evaluation had not been rescheduled, and Typhoon was thought to have slipped out of the race to supply some 24 combat jets.

Analysts in London said improving relations between Britain and Qatar and the recent Typhoon win in Oman, along with an earlier Saudi Arabian order, could help explain the renewed interest in the twin-engine combat jet.............

[WASALOADIE]

The French (Army and Air Force) were in Qatar on exercise last month with a mixture of rotary and also Rafale.