PDA

View Full Version : Alarm over quality of UK drone pilots


Jumping_Jack
11th Dec 2012, 13:47
Alarm over quality of Britain (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article3627188.ece)

Article in The Times today bemoaning the quality of UK 'drone' pilots. Seems to be focused on the Hermes 450, but is there read across to Reaper....or would this be a comparison of oranges & apples?

Herod
11th Dec 2012, 14:44
I thought these thing were "flown" by pilots. Reminds me of a very experienced trainer who said he wouldn't even look at MS Flight Sim until it became impossible for a spotty youth to "fly" in his bedroom.

dervish
11th Dec 2012, 14:55
The Times headline implies poor quality operators. But later it says they are poorly trained. Not the same thing. Has someone ignored training needs? It wouldn't be the first time.

BEagle
11th Dec 2012, 15:23
Unfotunately the link posted by Jumping_Jack is mostly obscured behind a Murdoch paywall....

However, I suspect that they're referring to the SI report into the accident involving ZK515 on 02 Oct 11: Page not found (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/BoardsOfInquiry/ServiceInquiryInvestigatingTheAccidentInvolvingUnmannedAirSy stemuasHermes450Zk515On02Oct11.htm) (ignore the title).

The Helpful Stacker
11th Dec 2012, 15:33
I thought these thing were "flown" by pilots.

Is that true of the Hermes 450?

Whilst there were a few Reaper controllers fed into the system from non-flying backgrounds (can't remember the name of the scheme) the majority of the operators are from the two-winged master race are they not?

Agaricus bisporus
11th Dec 2012, 15:48
from the two-winged master race

...you mean...they're pigeons???

CoffmanStarter
11th Dec 2012, 16:57
Here is a reasonable piece from the DT on the topic ...

Telegraph - UK Drones (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9737112/Alarms-raised-over-lack-of-military-drone-pilot-training.html)

Needless to say usual poor standard of research from the Daily Fail ! They can't even get the right pic for a Hermes !

Daily Mail - UK Drones (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246317/Britains-controversial-unmanned-drones-flown-poorly-trained-pilots-just-25-hours-flying-experience.html)

5 Forward 6 Back
11th Dec 2012, 17:17
There are some Brits flying Predators on exchange with the USAF who came from non-flying backgrounds under Trial DAEDALUS, but none on Reaper (yet).

Jumping_Jack, I'd say oranges and apples. Currently, everyone flying a UK Reaper is an experienced pilot, with only a couple of exceptions having less than a couple of tours on other fleets behind them.

Uncle Ginsters
11th Dec 2012, 17:35
Has someone ignored training needs? It wouldn't be the first time.

That Trenchard fella was so far ahead of his time...not that that fits in with today's 'save at all costs' culture...:ugh:

The Helpful Stacker
11th Dec 2012, 18:32
That Trenchard fella was so far ahead of his time...

Was he the bloke he said something about nurturing a culture of airmindedness, more specifically, through the formation of an organisation with airmindedness at its heart?

Whodathunkit? Driving things about in the air is different to driving things about on the ground or in water and as such might require a different mindset.......:}

baffman
11th Dec 2012, 18:46
MOD take on the situation, from today's DMC news update:

Report of alarm over quality of Britain's drone 'pilots'

The Times reports that there is 'alarm' over the quality of Britain's 'drone' pilots. This is somewhat misleading. The article is based on a Service Inquiry that refers only to Royal Artillery operation of the Hermes 450 Unmanned Aircraft System which was published by the Military Aviation Authority (MAA) on 26 September 2012.

It is important to note that the Hermes 450 is an unarmed capability that has been and continues to be a success in Afghanistan, providing vital intelligence for our ground forces. The MAA report did make a number of recommendations which included training and organisational issues - all of which are being followed through.

Importantly, it is incorrect to link this incident to any other UK remotely-operated air system, such as the Reaper Remotely Piloted Air System. Reaper is operated by the Royal Air Force which has its own well-established training and organisational frameworks. The RAF is assisting the Royal Artillery in implementing many of the training and supervisory recommendations made in the Service Inquiry.

500N
11th Dec 2012, 18:58
The Times areticle didn't mention the 450 in the first 3 Paragraphs
but did manage to get a mention of armed UAV's and killing.

The other two articles seem to be more balanced or at least
not as sensationalist.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
11th Dec 2012, 19:28
Perhaps this should be merged with the 'dogs to pilot aircraft' thread?

The average border collie is cleverer than a squaddie :E


.

Melchett01
11th Dec 2012, 19:31
It's important to differentiate between operators involved in the take-off and landing phase of flight and operators involved in the main mission elements. I suspect that they are not the same individuals and many of the issues that have occured during take off and landing might have been with the airframe under the physical control of contractors rather than Brit Mil.

Just This Once...
11th Dec 2012, 19:35
Melchett did you read the SI?

BEagle
11th Dec 2012, 20:00
The SI seemed very balanced and entirely reasonable, as is the MoD's take on the article in The Murdoch according to the DMC news update.

Sun Who
11th Dec 2012, 20:01
Page not found (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/BoardsOfInquiry/ServiceInquiryInvestigatingTheAccidentInvolvingUnmannedAirSy stemuasHermes450Zk515On02Oct11.htm)

It says page Not Found, but it should work.

Sun.

CoffmanStarter
11th Dec 2012, 20:15
F3WMB ... Opposeable Thumbs old chap ... leave the Border Collie out of it :E

Melchett01
11th Dec 2012, 20:53
Just This Once -

No I didn't - I have no connection to the UAV community but seem to recall that many are operated by a different crew to the launch / control element who won't necessarily be military or trained in the same way military personnel would.

But given the generally poor standard of journalism these days, it wouldn't surprise me if any such demarkation wasn't mentioned and people were left thinking UK military were entirely at fault.

Avtur
12th Dec 2012, 00:06
Unless things have changed, H450 were/are launched and recovered by off-board pilot contractors (not necessarily a qualified manned aircraft pilot) and operated (point and click waypoints) by Gunners.

Airmanship/awareness ???......Spears

CoffmanStarter
12th Dec 2012, 07:55
On the topic of Drones ... this is a serious bit of kick a$$ kit :ok:

The X-37B

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64693000/jpg/_64693253_64693252.jpg

Sun Who
12th Dec 2012, 17:36
Chaps,

The issues identified in this case were not around the abilities of the external pilot (the industry provided launch/recover operator) but the military operators. Not a criticism on my part - just an observation of the facts as presented by the SI.
Read the SI for details - the link is earlier in the thread.

Sun.

Jacks Down
12th Dec 2012, 19:43
The redacters of the report might want to note that their efforts in blanking out the name of the country where H450 training takes place is a bit wasted if they don't also blank out the language they speak there. Something of a giveaway.

Jumping_Jack
13th Dec 2012, 15:22
....so to sum up, it's just the 'Drop Shorts' doing what they do best....:E