Apache could be scrapped

[Robert G Mugabe]

Britain’s Apache gunships have been in use since 2001, seeing action in Afghanistan - where current pilots include Prince Harry - and in Libya.

Despite the helicopters’ successes on the frontline, defence sources suggested that the Army Air Corps fleet of 66 Apaches could eventually be cut to around 50 aircraft fit for operations.

Britain’s American-made AH-64D helicopters face becoming redundant because the US has decided to stop using the AH-64D model and adopt a newer variant, the AH-64E.That means essential technical support for the British Apache fleet will be withdrawn from 2017.

From the Torygraph today. Combined with the decision to pledge 2Billion to help the Third world go green makes me feel we are managed by complete buffoons.

Discuss:mad:

[Background Noise]

Discussed last night - http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/502032-surely-not.html

[newt]

Not surprising really as I hear the Australian Army is recruiting the pilots and paying them three times as much as they get in the UK!

So I guess there will be nobody left to fly them!!

[dat581]

Does that mean we will get Prince Harry?

[chevvron]

I thought the AACs Apaches were built by Westlands at Yeovil not in the USA

[Trackmaster]

I think Uncle Harry would fit right in.
But they would have to base a Tiger at Holsworthy so that he could enjoy the delights of Sydney.

[SASless]

Sounds like a Reporter knows naught of what he is talking about.....as usual!:ugh:

[Lonewolf_50]

Just because the US Army might go to a new Apache in due course does not mean that Boeing will stop supporting the D for other customers.

(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )

This story smells of fish.

[melmothtw]

Just because the US Army might go to a new Apache in due course does not mean that Boeing will stop supporting the D for other customers.

(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )

This story smells of fish.


The issue here isn't that the US will withdraw it support for the AH-64D, but that it will not support the Block 1-standard aircraft that the UK operates. The US will operate and support a fleet of AH-64D Block II and AH-64E Block III, leaving the UK out in the cold with the WAH-64D Block I.

The Dutch saw this coming some years back and decided to upgrade their Block I Apaches to Block II for this reason. The UK too has known for a long time that this was coming, but has continually procrastinated on making any decision.

[Canadian WokkaDoctor]

I think Uncle Harry would fit right in.
But they would have to base a Tiger at Holsworthy so that he could enjoy the delights of Sydney.


I'm not sure Harry would restrict his delights to just one lady, named Sydney or not!!!

:-)

[eaglemmoomin]

Sounds about right why do anything now while you can kick it into the long grass and then spend a lot more money or better yet lose your capability.

[Lonewolf_50]

melmo, I relaize fleet size disparity between US and UK fleets, and also the matters of numbers/scale on parts support.

Is your concern that the avionics and other accessory bits will go out of production due to demand being too low, and thus parts you need will simply become unavailable, or too expensive to afford?

I won't get into th econimics of whatever joint support agreements via primes and subs are extant, since I don't know what they are.

Isn't there a way for the UK to proceed ahead with the chosen configuration and press on, or is your general argument that it will be far too expensive to do that, from an Operations and Maintenance PoV, due to the comparatively small size of the fleet?

[Robert Cooper]

Chevvron

You are correct, Westland built 67 Apaches under license from Boeing.

Bob C

[melmothtw]

You've hit the nail on the head Loneworlf 50,

The UK's Apaches are going to suffer from serious obsolescence issues in the near future due todifficulties in sourcing many of the aircraft's line-replaceable units.

As technology progresses, these LRUs are simply no longer going to be procurable.

The main issue is with the aircraft's processing suites, which comprise a systems processor, weapons processor and a mission processor that are subject to Moore's Law - "computer memory is doubled every six months".

Therefore, the chip manufacturers have a very small window where the chips are viable before they stop making them. To try and counter this obsolescence Boeing engages in what the company terms 'last-time buy'. Under this initiative it sets about buying all of these chips as the manufacturers decide that they are no longer going to support them.

Even so, this is still a finite amount of chips, and they WILL run out!

To try and counter this, the MoD's unstated intention was to skip AH-64D Block II and go straight to Block III (now AH-64E), but that was before the economy went to hell in a hand basket. Who know what they can afford to do now?

[Hilife]

Chevvron

You are correct, Westland built 67 Apaches under license from Boeing.

Not so. As I remember it, Boeing delivered the first eight airframes and supplied kits for the remainder for Westland’s to assemble at Yeovil and equip with UK content.

[Robert Cooper]

That is correct as I understand it, but they were built there.

Bob C

[9BIT]

Might be able to pick up some cheap Tigers.

Army pilots stage mutiny over chopper fears | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/worklife/army-pilots-stage-mutiny-over-chopper-fears/story-e6frfm9r-1226530364627)

[Lonewolf_50]

Thanks melmo, makes more sense to me now. :ok:

[Hockham Admiral]

Quite correct, Hilife. HeavyLift brought them over in the Belfast....

I remember when we brought the first one in and the General i/c Army Aviation was waiting to greet us....

I asked him what he wanted them for now that the USSR no longer existed as such! (as I recall they were designed to take out Russian Tanks on the North German Plain...) :ugh::ugh::ugh: