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View Full Version : Soldiers given extra Christmas leave as a 'thank you'


benedick
2nd Dec 2012, 20:39
In response to the MOD’s announcement that the army is to be given an extra 5 days leave this Xmas as a "thank you" for its "exceptionally" busy year, the RAF has announced that, for every year’s service, they will be paying their airmen 365 days salary.

green granite
2nd Dec 2012, 20:41
According to the Sunday Times it was to save money on heating and lighting costs.

Andu
2nd Dec 2012, 20:59
It's probably a cost-cutting exercise. Some bean counter has worked out they'll save 'n' Pounds by not having to ration or provide heating for 'x' number of soldiers for the five days.

Andu
2nd Dec 2012, 20:59
I see you beat me to it, GG.

BEagle
2nd Dec 2012, 21:09
I remember back in 1973-4 when 'they' sent us away from RAFC between Christmas and New Year, then turned off all the heating to save money...

It was very cold at the time; living abroad I had to come back a day or so early and used to go out in my car to get warm as my room was b£oody freezing...

But it cost them thousands when the heating was finally restored as damp had set in, which ruined miles of expensive wall paper etc.....and, of course, everyone turned their radiators up to max chat!

Penny wise, pound foolish!

Pontius Navigator
2nd Dec 2012, 21:15
When we had the peace dividend in 1990/91 in the run up to GW1 it saved a fortune in heating and lighting. Same as happened in the 46/47 winter when units were closed for weeks.

I would go with the Sunday Times. Another way to save money would be to abolish chinagraphs in March.

Perhaps one of the biggest saving in a long stand down is the frequently nugatory runway de-icing etc.

Melchett01
2nd Dec 2012, 21:47
BEagle,

You beat me to it. Given the current policy of managed decline, i.e. only spending money on infra where absolutely necessary, the current delapidated state of many buildings surely puts them at risk if we have a harsh winter - which if the press and Met men are to be believed is on the cards. Turn the heating off, freezing sets in and hey presto, save a few pounds on the gas bill and spend thousands repairing the damage. But hey, that comes out of a different budget, so it's ok :ugh:

500N
2nd Dec 2012, 21:56
"Turn the heating off, freezing sets in and hey presto, save a few pounds on the gas bill and spend thousands repairing the damage."

Exactly.

In the late 70's, I think around 78 - 80 when the UK had a really cold winter,
we left out heating on in Hereford but it still froze the pipes so I agree, the damage can be way more than any saving.

.

NutLoose
2nd Dec 2012, 21:58
I remember Brize putting singles in quarters due to the lack of accommodation and the heating being on 24/7, thermostatically controlled by opening the windows :E

It always amused me the way the RAF had fixed periods that the central heating would be on, because when it was turned off in the blocks the electric consumption must have gone through the roof as the singlies turned on their electric heaters.

dervish
3rd Dec 2012, 07:43
500N

In the late 70's, I think around 78 - 80 when the UK had a really cold winter,
we left out heating on in Hereford but it still froze the pipes so I agree, the damage can be way more than any saving.



That may have been the year London ordered the thermostats to be lowered to save money, which may be ok when you're that close to the equator. In our (REME) workshops the pen recorders showed the temperature didn't rise above -10 for two weeks. Normally enhanced maintenance would kick in but we weren't allowed to spend the money. Repairing the damage took weeks, just to save a few grand. But they would be different budgets, so that's ok.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Dec 2012, 08:03
In my last light blue job I ran a computer system - two main frames running back to back. For the long Christmas break I would shut them down and return to work a day early to fire them up again. It also meant I could call the contractors first thing the next day to fix them.

Last time I simply closed the processing and left everything else running. Two-weeks later they were still running sweetly.

Roland Pulfrew
3rd Dec 2012, 08:35
I understand that they did something similar at a certain northern RAF base only 2 (or was it 3 ?) winters ago. Sadly that particular part of Scotland experienced one of its coldest periods (-15, or -16) for several days. The heating had been turned right the way down to save on costs. And lo, a number of buildings suffered from burst pipes due to the cold weather (Scotland? Cold?? In winter???). Cost of repairs far exceeded cost of saved fuel.

As a complete aside, the weather, stunningly clear, very cold and dead flat calm, meant that not a single wind turbine stirred to disturb the Christmas peace. :E

Big Bear
3rd Dec 2012, 08:37
In my last light blue job I ran a computer system - two main frames running back to back. For the long Christmas break I would shut them down and return to work a day early to fire them up again. It also meant I could call the contractors first thing the next day to fix them.




A common mistake that people make with comms kit. Leave it alone and it will be fine. Switch it off and it will fail on run up.

Bear

ORAC
3rd Dec 2012, 09:34
The Staish tried to close Boulmer in a similar manner in the mid 80s. Then the unions got involved.

Sorry, they said, our civvie members have to be supervised and the heating has to be on etc.

But, said Staish, they can have the time off as week and still get paid!!

Can't do that, said unions, not unless all our other members working on RAF stations get the same deal, or get paid extra for having to go to work.

Station stayed open.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Dec 2012, 09:59
BB, I was just obeying orders :)

The last time I ignored the orders. Large heating bill but less work for me :)

langleybaston
3rd Dec 2012, 15:28
Certainly the Brize lecky bill in the Mess must have been huge in the period AFTER it became cold and BEFORE the official heating date [and the converse]. I certainly had a substantial heater. Dining Room and ante-room still damned cold though! Solution: import kettle and microwave or even mini-oven. The bar warmed up nicely from the bodies of course.

tailchase
3rd Dec 2012, 17:25
To those of you who have done well - Well Done!

To everyone else - well done anyway!!

whowhenwhy
3rd Dec 2012, 18:19
So should we and the Navy consider reporting our respective Services to the Equal Opportunities Commission, or is it simply that we haven't worked hard enough this year?

Rosevidney1
3rd Dec 2012, 18:39
Quite honestly we are talking about our government here, of whichever political persuasion, and whatever they enact it will be unwieldy, unmanageable, irrelevant and in the end will fail. Its what the UK government does best at enormous expense.
Cynical? Moi?

Roadster280
3rd Dec 2012, 20:26
Since the RN and RAF troops under Army command will also be getting the time off, I don't think it's so much an "equal opportunities" case as one of single-service leadership. Or lack thereof.

Roland Pulfrew
3rd Dec 2012, 21:17
So should we and the Navy consider reporting our respective Services to the Equal Opportunities Commission, or is it simply that we haven't worked hard enough this year?

Check your JPA, "we" (I assume RAF) have already had 4 days additional allowance added to leave totals, which is I assume our bit of the extra time off. :ok:

Easy Street
3rd Dec 2012, 21:23
single-service leadership. Or lack thereof.Lack of leadership by LAND command, perhaps. Not by AIR command though. Much of the RAF when "in barracks" in the UK is conducting essential training; it's not like Army and RN units who have specific and time-limited work-up exercises. Closing a week early for Christmas and coming back a week late would put all flying-related operations on the verge of their currency requirements, and would make a huge hole in the annual flying programme. With manning cut to the bone it is not possible to 'surge' to make room for a lengthy holiday; a slow, steady rate of work using every available day is what's required in the post-LEAN environment. Good leadership will involve explaining that to the masses before the barrack-room lawyers and shop stewards sow the usual dissent.

Kitbag
3rd Dec 2012, 21:37
Easy Street are you genuinely suggesting that a weeks additional grounding will nullify operational capability?
Is the RAF really that fragile?

Roadster280
3rd Dec 2012, 21:50
Easy Street - there appears to be a difference in ethos here. The Army appear to have put some thought into this, and are finding ways to make it happen.

If the RAF at large truly has your view, then it would appear that they are finding ways to make it NOT happen. The edict from LAND was signed in early October. I would suggest that is plenty of time to make arrangements so that issues such as currency can be put to bed.

As for "essential training", I think you will find that the Army does plenty of that, even when not deployed on exercise. Just like the RAF. And the RN, no doubt.

I was Army, but have served on RAF stations. There is a difference in viewpoints, and certainly the Army makes a pig's ear of some things the RAF do well. The reverse is also true however.

FODPlod
3rd Dec 2012, 22:08
...Much of the RAF when "in barracks" in the UK is conducting essential training; it's not like Army and RN units who have specific and time-limited work-up exercises...

...between their generally longer and more frequent deployment on operations around the world in greater numbers, proportional and actual. ;)

Kitbag
4th Dec 2012, 05:41
Let's not have a pi$$ing contest over who does how much away.
More to this point, the need to reduce costs has been around since the last SDSR (and since the end the 1930's expansion plan), the traditional Christmas celebration has been around for the last 2 Millennia or so and the UK metman would generally support the contention that the weather in Dec, Jan and Feb is poor to say the least. Making an early announcement would help ensure sensible use of the Individual Leave Allowance and negate the need to give 'free' time off. My guess is 4 days x 108000 men x £90 ave pay = £3.9m. Not sure how that stacks up against savings elsewhere.

whowhenwhy
4th Dec 2012, 06:52
I understand the currency impacts and, yes, unfortunately things are that taut. However I've not found anyone else who has had 4 days leave added. The stand-down days to cover 20 Dec to 3 Jan (I think that was the Jan date) but no extra to cover from 14 Dec.

downsizer
4th Dec 2012, 06:53
^^^^Exactely.

getsometimein
4th Dec 2012, 09:19
This isn't a case of extra leave, this is allowing us to take extra time off...

I think this will allow people to dip under the 15 day carry over as we've not been able to take leave this year due to Olympics etc...

Roland Pulfrew
4th Dec 2012, 10:18
www, downsizer, et al: This taken from orders where I work:

1. This note outlines the Air Force Board's direction with regard to leave and stand-down arrnagements for Christmas and new year 2013. This has been another challenging year... blah, blah. In recognition of the demands... blah, extra stand-down days have been agreed for the Christmas 2012 and New Year 2013 period, which will run from cease work Thu 20 Dec 12 until start work Thu 03 Jan 13. A detailed breakdown of the leave amounts is:

2 x ILA
2 x weekend
4 x stand-down
3 x PH
Total 13 days


13 days at the cost of 2 days ILA or 17 days leave for 4 days ILA if you extend leave until Mon 07 Jan and why wouldn't you - if you can? All information readily available on the intranet. :hmm:

Not sure about your units, but if they haven't added the 4 additional days yet, maybe you should be asking PSF why. So I think we might be violently agreeing. There has been no announcement of anything beyond the COP 20 Dec - RTW 03 Jan.

downsizer
4th Dec 2012, 10:29
Thats the point I'm making, the RAF aren't getting any extra leave, the 4 days are stand down days are for the "normal" grant period and have already been added here.

Party Animal
4th Dec 2012, 12:50
So my questions now are:

Is the 4 days additional leave given to everyone in the RAF the same as the 4 days standown for the Xmas period that we are expected to use or is it additional?

I.E. If I extend my leave until 7 Jan and use 4 days ILA to do so. Will that be the bonus 4 days or will it be part of my original allowance?

If the standown is in addition, how do I enter that on JPA? :confused:

downsizer
4th Dec 2012, 14:36
If you extend, the days come off your original ILA balance. The 4 extra days cover the middle of the grant.

The 4 days of AA should have been added by your admin already.

Jumping_Jack
4th Dec 2012, 15:06
The various HQs at Air Cmd are all offering their staff variations on a theme (you wouldnt expect them to agree to one plot would you?). Staff are being 'encouraged' to use their ALA to extend the official grant period, so either knock off cop 14 Dec return 3 Jan 13 or knock off COP 20 Dec return 7 Jan 13. As I said, any extra comes out of your annual leave allowance. As there is no coherence there ain't much scope to save on utilities!

Pontius Navigator
4th Dec 2012, 15:19
Easy Street makes a valid point. Back when we had the peace dividend and an extra week off it actually put the training system back a fortnight. In training with leave over 9 days there is a very significant knowledge fade(I don't say skills) amongst trainees. We had to lay on additional sim sorties to recover lost ground and additional flights for some.

I imagine there would be a knock on effect with OCU training schedules too. Sqns certainly can flex more easily.

Tiger_mate
4th Dec 2012, 15:47
The extra days were added to my JPA this afternoon. Merry Christmas ;0)

MG
4th Dec 2012, 18:58
But if you work for JFC, you get 'follow the intent of the RN/RM' which is 2 extra days. But that's only an intent and if your senior man is a civil servant, then you get one extra day!

unclenelli
5th Dec 2012, 19:40
Roland Pulfrew

Any idea as to which day is what ?

Some of us have to provide a 24/7 cover and need to know which date is allocated as ILA, WE (we can guess), PH or SBY in order to submit leave passes.

We (RAF) have been encouraged to take leave from 14 Dec by Harry Staish, although flying continues!?!?!?!??????

MG
5th Dec 2012, 19:48
Surely the point of having leave added to your ILA is that it can be taken at anytime?

Pontius Navigator
6th Dec 2012, 08:26
MG, and the point of it only over Christmas is that the units an shut right down - economy.

On my last we used to get an AOCs stand-down. One year they tried to keep the unit open and allow the individual to take a stand-down. I won the point that that was no stand-down as the individual's work load was then shifted to the remaining staff.

It would work for some but not for shift workers.

Onceapilot
6th Dec 2012, 10:21
I am sure there used to be a service wide policy on leave?:rolleyes:

OAP

Pontius Navigator
6th Dec 2012, 12:05
OAP, no. Command-wide may be but not Service wide.

When AOC-in-C Strike awarded the peace-dividend leave there was much sucking of teeth in Training Command as to whether they should follow suit after all the trainees didn't deserve a dividend. Probably someone pointed out that the staff probably deserved the dividend more than current members of Strike :)

baffman
6th Dec 2012, 19:22
Leave regulations are tri-service, though. JSP 760.

MG
6th Dec 2012, 19:31
PN, yes, but if it is added to your ILA, then it's valid until 31 Mar, when you carry over 15 or lose the rest. The idea of shutting down over a period is different but there is no mechanism (I might be wrong here) of restricting those extra ILA days to just Christmas. It's not like the old standdown, where days were specified, nor CS Privilege Days.