Which Middle East Airline has best quality of life?

[WhyFlare]

Im a US A320 FO looking interested in flying overseas. Pay is important but MORE important is schedule (time off) and quality of life for my family.

I see mixed reviews about EK. I do like UAE. What are the choices?

[flyforfood1]

EK is your only option. QR on the 320 is evil, the 'other' airline I hear is the same on the 320 but maybe slightly better than QR maybe because you won't be living in the hole that is Doha and Dubai is just down the road if you want it.

T&C's are better at EK, however what you'd have to be prepared for is that EK you'll be on long haul so your time with the family would be limited although I think on the 330 is a mix of night turns to the sub continent with the odd euro trip.

Either way, from applying to actually being recruited would be at least 6 months so plenty of time to think it over, you must visit the place though and try and talk to as many people in the ME as you can to get a TRUE picture of life out here because you are ultimately here for one reason and one reason only, to work!!

Good Luck. :ok:

[WhyFlare]

What are the flight and duty time limitations at EK? Same as US? (8 hours flt and 16 hours duty) 30 hours in a 7 day period Etc.

Im getting the impression that EK flys the pilots hard. Not sure if this is true.

Currently I work 18 to 19 days a month.

[Iver]

EK would be the absolute first choice. Followed by the other big UAE carrier that cannot be named on this forum (for legal reasons). Qatar should be you last choice by a mile based on complete disrespect for the pilot group and screwed-up HR communication and training. Go for EK first.

[flyforfood1]

I think you just need to read the post few threads down titled, "Reasons not to apply for Emirates airlines" to see just how hard you'll be worked.

My 2 cents - stay where you are.

[John21UK]

By far the best gig in the M.E. is Gulf Air on the Embraer! 22 average days of usefull time off with family a month since january and still great pay and 50 hrs a month flying. I'll miss it when I go to A320. But I heard the 320 scheduele ain't too bad for F/O's either!

[samjetblaster]

Try Gulf Air.The best.:ok:

[Check Airman]

As a fellow US pilot looking at the expat world, the consensus seems to be that if you want QOL, you'll have to stay in the US. I don't think there are many expat jobs where you can regularly count on 16+ days off.

[ualgrizz]

QOL can be a bit of a problem in this part of the world. However, before being furloughed by United I spent some time in Macau on the 767...VivaMacau...absolute great bunch of guys to work with...lots of americans and canooks. It was a great deal...6 weeks on 3 weeks off, 6 weeks on 2 weeks off...and alternated throughout the year. We had 3 and 4 day layovers in Australia and the rest of the trips were not bad. Unfortunately, the business plan failed as a result of the financial meltdown...gambling was not on the short list of "have to do things"...except some mainland China folks, but we did not have permission to land in China. There is another company in Macau that flies the bus...AirMacau, but I believe the Brazilians have a tight grip on this one...might be worth looking into for you. Macau is not bad. My point...there are some good jobs but the problem is finding them.

I am currently at FlyDubai...on the 7378. Lot of people have a hard on about the company, but I don't think it is really bad. Then again, I will return to UAL at some point...I do see the light at the end of the tunnel so my perspective may be different than others...however, we do have one Alaska furlough that gave up his seniority number to remain at FD. I have to admit the schedule (not schedules..."pronounced-shed du els"... here because of the British and Aussie influence...they are called rosters) is terrible and do not see any relief in the future. Even though we are home after each flight (with few exceptions) the job is draining...10 hours of flying with take-offs at 10PM and returning as the sun rises are routine...2 days later you will have a 3/4 am show. Further, I have logged more combat time at this airline than all of my years as a fighter jock...Kabul, Damascus, Bastion, Kandahar etc. Most of the FOs I fly with are good guys with aspirations to move on to the big boys...EK and the other one in AbuDhabi...so that is telling...very little talk of Qatar though. As a sidebar, I recently flew with a local chap that told me about a conversation he had with said scheduler regarding the "heinous roster". He asked the guy why such a poor roster and was told we have only operated for 3 years as an airline and it takes time. And our local FO told him we built the tallest building in the world in 2 years...if you keep thinking like that you might get fired:E

I think FD may be accepting applications without time in type. There are those who see the company as a long term career...but then there are others....

AirArabia that is just down the road in one of the other Emirates. I believe you can live in Dubai. Heard good things about them.

You will not find anything close to the quality of life of a US legacy carrier in the middle east. There is no union. You are on your own without protection. You are at the mercy of the written rule which changes all of the time...not in your favor.

Good luck!

[donpizmeov]

If you are looking for a command before adding another decade or so to your age you should be looking at those airlines down the road from Ek.

The Don

[vfenext]

I will return to UAL at some point...
So they can furlough you again....

[The Dominican]

Go for the money, go for the adventure, go for the experience, go to fly the shiny jet even, but 900+ hours a year and 10 days off a month does not equate to quality of life:ugh:

[ualgrizz]

So they can furlough you again....

A valid point...but the beauty of the middle east airlines is the pay...there is good with the bad. Should you elect to live a conservative lifestyle and invest well there is no need to be concerned...I could give a $hit if I get furloughed again...I am used to it.

[vfenext]

Good to see you're full of ambition, not to mention confidence :rolleyes:

[RandyBMC]

Wow vfenext, such wisdom.

Have you walked a mile on girzz's shoes? If you are not familiar with what it is like to go through two furloughs after being promised during your new hire ceremony that "this will be the last job you will ever have" and "you have hit the lotto" only to be sold down the river by your union and airline, then you should back way the h3ll off.

I know grizz and also know he could care less about your snippy comments, but they offend me. He is plenty ambitious to have continually landed on his feet under duress. As furloughees, we have been tested and have proven we can come out on top, which is why his attitude may seem flippant to you. It is the opposite - confidence from being tested.

Randy Webb
UAL furloughee

[BigGeordie]

I would have thought the beauty of the Middle East airlines is the job security, especially to anybody who has been through a redundancy process. The pay isn't bad either but be in do doubt as far as your employer is concerned you are here to work. Quality of life doesn't come into it.

Do the job, don't mess up, take the money and save as much as you can. Then retire early to somewhere you really want to live. That is where the quality of life comes into it. I reckon that by working in the Middle East for 15-20 years I can retire 10 years earlier than I could if I'd stayed in Europe.

[long-gonner]

Hey vfenext,

No job is ever safe. The UAL confidence comes from being part of professional brotherhood that has been an industry leader for a long long time. Do you like CRM? That's a UAL program.... No crew caused fatalities since 1978 at UAL. Lots of reason to be proud of even having the chance to be "furloughed" from UAL lol. If none of them inerest you, that's fine, just don't belittle a guy who has seen and lived through more than you will ever comprehend possible. Best of luck with your ambitions!

[long-gonner]

Whyflare,

Living and flying outside of the US is great experience, but have a heart to heart with your wife/family first. If they are not 100% fully behind the endevour it will fail miserably. Once you accept the job offer and move to wherever, you will be forced to take out car loans, sign 12 month rental agreements if company housing is not provided, school fees, etc.... Basically make sure the wife understands its not a 3 months into it you can change your mind and just leave type of situation. flydubai has a 3 year training bond. Other UAE airlines have something similar. As for location, I couldn't imagine living any place other than Duabi with my family. Everyone has a different experience, but as someone who doesn't get drunk in public, takes taxis when I do go out for drinks, and has been fairly lucky at flydubai with not having anything major happen (knock on wood) work wise, I'm fairly glad I took the plunge. Occasionally you run into some anti-Americanism from the least expected places, but that's few and far between the vast majority of people in the world that are quite pleasant work with. Good luck with your job search!

[ualgrizz]

"full of ambition, not to mention confidence"

Well, well vf "there you again". Now I could get snippy and call you a punk, but I'll keep that thought to myself...it's not nice. I was answering a question regarding quality of life in the middle east wrt airlines...I do not believe that I said anything warranting your comments.

There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and getting furloughed at UAL. The latter took me a few years to figure out. As I mentioned, as well as others, the middle east is a great place to make and save money as long as you have a plan. It's nice to know the good, the bad and the ugly before getting here. I applaud the originator of this thread for doing his due diligence in analyzing the potential move. So what is your beef?

Now regarding the ambition and confidence thing...as Randy states you don't know anything about me. I have found over my life it's good form to keep your pile hole shut when you don't have a clue. Confidence...my friend, I reached the pinnacle of my aviation career 15 years ago. I will go out on a limb and say that I have done more in an airplane than you can even imagine. Ambition...in my family of 5, there are two doctors and 3 others that work in medicine...so let's put ambition to rest please...I am here to make money, play a great guitar and ride bicycles on the back side of the curve...make the best of the situation.

I say again...in my opinion, you will not find US legacy airline quality of life in the middle east. But there is the good that makes the ugly and bad palatable.

Have a nice day.

[fringhtok]

Flare,

Quality of life is such a subjective thing, it's hard to gauge. Your attitude, and that of the family, will be the biggest factor. By far. Are you glass-half-full, like Grizz, or are you a sniping ****** like, that other guy? :}

Seriously, luck will play a part. I'm on the Boeing in EK and from my perspective, it's pretty good. Like you, I highly value time at home and specifically time at home on weekends. I cope well with ULR flying and recover quickly afterwards. We have several ULR flights that are worth about 30 hours and will keep you away for around 3 or 4 days. You can do two of those a month and that's around 66% of your flying finished in 8 days, max. A leisurely 5 hours a day for the other 25 hours or so will see you at home 17 days for the month. Now, some of those days are ULR STBYs or rest days, but you're still at home. That is a typical roster for me and it suits me fine. For guys on the Airbus, the equation is slightly different but my friends on it are also happy. $ is always a consideration and, again, I don't think it's too bad. I wish we were paid more but we're not, and I can't do anything about it. As a TRI told me in training 'we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto'. However, I send $ home each month- and I have kids at school, a wife who likes stuff and we eat out, have a maid, etc. It can be done.

That's about it for me. As a family guy I would say my recommendation is:
1. EK
2. EK
3. EK
4. Think about the mob we can't mention
5. Have a few beers and then think again before staying put. ;)
Good luck! Cheers

[SAS-A321]

I would think very carefully before joining Air Arabia and Air Macau. I have not heard a single good thing about the airlines. There are threads about both companies here on Pprune.

EK and EY would be the best in my opinion. I know one guy who is in the holding pool for EK and have been there for 7 months, so it is quite a wait.
GF is down sizing and only hired 2 guys from what I have heard.

If you are also interested in Asia look at Dragonair, Asiana, JetStar, VietJet or Citilink. Joining either VietJet or Citilink might be very quick since they are desperate for FOs.

[enthusiast]

I would like to add one more thing should be discussed on this thread. Even though I submited my application to EK also, as a first officer, I have placed the flag carrier of UAE on the top priority. I am already aware that EK provide better package to it's pilots than the airline which could not be named. Since EK restarted to hire DEC, according to street words, period to a captain will be longer than 7 years in EK. On the other hand another will give opportunity for a brand new FO to become a skipper of 777 in 3 years. Is there anybody could verify it. Thanks in advance.

[flyzede]

Hi!

enthusiast, just don't forget that the National Carrier of the UAE is also hiring DEC, so you also have to wait to jump to the left seat longer than it used to be.
Anyway, I believe that placing the Abu Dhabi one in first place is a good choice!

:ok:

[jibba_jabba]

Every airline will have its good and bad points. BUT, I know a far few people in Emirates and all of them LOVE it.

Whoever is saying Emirates pilots will be shocking tired etc simply has to answer why my friends usually have 15+ days off a month!!!? VERY good rosters. Yes you may do big trips but you are looked after exceptionally well compared to any other middle eastern RPT carrier.

Actually, Emirates is run by westerners who have set up a very fair system, with seniority number based upgrades etc.... and they are expanding as well, so do your time and you will get offers for upgrades!

So my choice would be:

#1 Emirates
#2 T-had
# Qatar LAST! especially if your given 320.

[ironbutt57]

Shouldnt the question be "best qol at base"??? remember, mummy n the snot-gobblers are stuck there while we are out n about flying

[ironbutt57]

work rules and lifestyle in the Gulf pale by comparison to "back home" that being said, one must look at the potential earnings over their projected career timespan....moneywise it usually works out better to stay in the sand, career and healthwise, no comparison...go home

[millerscourt]

Samjetblaster

Have only just stopped laughing at your suggestion of GF:D

[richard III]

extremely interesting thread, good points made..I was wondering now that there is a window open in the three ME carriers for 777 skippers I would be really helpful to have varied informed opinions about the three, It looks like as a straight forward package, EK is the better option, financially there are few differences, and as far as company culture I see as much complaining for the three of them even though there is one we can't talk about much, as a place for family to live, it looks like Doha is trailing, but they have more money than god and a world cup coming, so they should shape up quick, I personally like AUH better than DXB, but thats just personal. Also should you decide to keep your family put, let's say in Europe for schooling reasons, which carrier will make it easier for you? regarding rosters and staff travel arrangements? I know that many pilots do this at QR and all the companies pay for schooling overseas so I assume It is an accepted though not established practice. I even saw a thread in this same section regarding tickets for the maid and relatives. Cost of life in the three cities? which city has better international schooling? Accommodation during layovers? training culture, instructors or demigods? Housing at base? network? All these intangibles are important if you have family and wish to either keep them home or bring them over....
All opinions are appreciated,
All the best and blue skies

[box]

Try the book "Escap.e from Dubai". Yikes!:uhoh:

[slowjet]

Richard 111.............what I would do for a "Good points MAID " Millers, I too, only just stopped laughing ! John 21 is cringeworthy at best. Look, yakeedoodles, for goodness sake, stay where you are. QOL with demos, explosions, rocks flung at your family....what are you people thinking ? And that's only London !

[babyjet787]

We would like to take this opportunity and draw your attention to the fact that rules are
in existence for curfew timings at the Cabin Crew accommodation and these rules must
be respected and complied with on all occasions when associating with them.
Additionally there are national rules and customs prohibiting cohabitation of unmarried
couples. These rules are binding and must be adhered to at all times.
The company has no intention to preclude freedom of association but it is essential that rules are followed....

Example of QR rules and management style...And you need an Exit permit to leave this "Prison"......in line with North Korea, (Cuba just abandoned that policy)
Welcome the World Cup Hosts....!!!:D

[Iver]

Here are some sample rosters from the A320, A330 and 777 fleets that have been posted on PPrune over the last 12 months (conduct a search and you will find them). These have been posted by actual QR pilots. Perhaps rosters have improved over time? Not sure - hope we all get some updates. Regardless, draw your own conclusions about how these types of rosters would impact your QOL:


#1 - A320 Qatar

For thosecontemplating joining QR, here is an actual roster for A320 Captain.The monthand specific destinations have been omitted to protect the innocent. All timesare based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.

This roster has the minimum eight days off, of which seven are at home and oneis in a hotel (Day 1). 92 block hours and 160 duty hours (= salary QAR42,500).Generally it is unusual to get days off at outstation.

You will often get a 10-12 day pattern with a combination of day and nightflying with the one legal day off in the middle. Rest of the month willobviously be better.

QR operates strictly according to legality. No regard is taken for family issues,fatigue-issues or the flight safety implications fatigue has. You will be tiredbeyond your imagination, but you will get a decent meal at 3am if you wish.

By the way, management cancelled one week’s leave for all A320 pilots thiswinter.

#2 - A320 Qatar


Here is another actualroster.
Again, all times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. off
Day 2. report 0630, Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 3. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 4. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 5. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 6. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 7. report 0040 for regional turn-around, land DOH 0610.
Day 8. off
Day 9. report 1515 for three-sectors, Gulf turn-around, followed by layoverIndia.
Day 10. land at outstation 0130 (layover), wake-up-call 2330.
Day 11. land DOH 0620. followed by 17hrs 25min rest.
Day 12. report 0015, regional turn-around, land DOH 0620.
Day 13. report 1115, regional turn-around, land DOH1940.
Day 14. off
Day 15. off

They actually gave me duty on my day off on day 14 (without asking), but Ireported sick for that day.

You will get a pattern like this almost every month.

#3 - A330 Qatar:


A330 Roster :-

2 x BRU
1 x ICN
1 x MNL
1 x DXB
1 x FCO
1 x ZRH + STR (3 sector day)

A return from LHR at the beginning of the month meant just over 99hrsflying.


#4 - 777 Qatar


Typical monthly Qatar777 roster

2 JFK (3 Days trip)
1 MEL (4 Days trip)
1 BKK-SGN (4 Days trip)
1 PVG (3 Days trip)

2-3 days off between and some stand-by

Flight time 120hrs/ 75 logged hours

[Laker]

Iver,

Those are without a doubt the worst rosters I have ever seen. How does Qatar manage to attract and retain pilots? I can't imagine those are truly representative of the norm... My head hurts just contemplating 120+ hours per month on the 777, or 8 days off on the 320 with one of them being on a layover! WTF? That stretch from day 2-8 of the A320 Roster looks like fun.

[Iver]

Laker,

I don't work for QR - I am just posting again what has already been posted by QR pilots. One would hope things would improve over time IF they want to hold on to quality pilots... :ugh: That said, there is no evidence that anything has improved roster-wise (unless someone posts a recent roster that shows improvement).

Better for people to go to the Middle East (especially Qatar Airways) with their eyes WIDE OPEN. Just expect to work hard. You will work hard at all of the major airlines in the region - but QR appears to be the hardest working... The A320 rosters at QR look particularly challenging... :eek: That said, the longhaul flying on the 777 and A330 look equally exhausting (add in the jet lag). Based on these sample rosters and on comments provided by QR pilots, it sounds like monthly pilot productivity is the absolute priority at QR regardless of the attrition rate.

I personally know someone on the A380 fleet at EK who worked very hard as an A330/340 FO but now his roster is more stable on the A380 (at least for now) and he gets a good amount of time off between longhaul flights. He loves the A380 and he has more of a life now than he ever did on the other fleets.

[disagreeable]

A320:
quite hard rosters, infact, bad. Largely depends on bidding, BUT bidding will give you one great roster per few months, the rest being ordinary. Also at QR it depends on if your training cpt/management or in the "good books of the planners or somebody".
!!!8 days off is all your going to get!!!
Really bad day shift then night shift style planning.
average hours will be from 80 - 105 Hrs (flying time) per month! They even plan you illegally here!! unbelieveable. (160hrs+ for duty time which you dont get paid for).
And the monkeys running the show wonder why people want fleet transfers all the time! :ugh:

A330:
At the moment, the fleet to be on.
Ave 12 - 14 days off.
average 55 - 80hrs flying per month.
may see routes disapear as the 7late7 starts to take the "nice" destinations and the 330 starts to become the freighter.

777:
ave 65 - 80 hrs flt time.
Ave 12 - 14 days off. some at outports.
bigger time changes but split crew and more rest during flight.
average

A300:
averaging 30hrs p/m.
Cant complain hey; Believe me, some boys do! they want to fly more! well come to the 320 is all I have to say to them :ugh:

Potentially the 787 is a trapped fleet, as alot of the smaller 787's may be doing shorter haul stuff and end up like the 320..... hopefully not and goes towards the 330 rosters.

If you come anywhere in the ME you will work hard but especially true for 320 and in QR.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Is that first 320 roster a cabin crew roster or a pilot roster? Unless things have changed, QR don't roster off days out of base for their pilots, only for their cabin crew.

[salamalikum2]

Negative ManaAda, they do roster off days out of base for pilots as well!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thanks for your info, mine is a bit outdated. Are you required (QR) to have two local nights off in any 7 day period?

[Iver]

Ex-A380,

I live and fly in Europe for the time being. I'd like to move to the ME once my flight times are more competitive since flying opportunities in Europe will be stalled for years. Several friends from Europe have flocked to the ME and I speak with them regularly about flying in the region. I am no expert and I don't pretend to be - I am seeking better information as well.

[Laker]

I think if they tried that at EK you would see an exodus of pilots. Dubai is getting more expensive by the day with a corresponding deterioration in buying power and working conditions. I'm guessing any further slide in roster quality would have a negative effect on attrition. What's the point of coming to the middle east if you can't save money and work yourself into an early medical disability?

I honestly don't see how Qatar finds people willing to sign up. I must be missing something.

maybe it's a good example of the boiling frog syndrome

Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog)

[King on a Wing]

Iver,
Just out of curiosity what would a QR Captain make, for say 75 hrs of flight time in USD per month. Please try and include the flying allowances, layover allowances, housing and education.
Can we then compare the same to and EY 777 Captain. I mean, even ballpark figures would be ok. Just to get a fair idea. Also, is the cost of living in Doha much higher than in AUH.
Just wondering and good info too.
Thanks

[Iver]

I have heard that a large number of pilots have already left QR for that other big UAE airline - including many on the 777. For that reason, the 777 fleet is evidently short of pilots at QR. Just a prime example of how pilots will move elsewhere (once their training bond expires) if conditions are not competitive.

You would think QR would understand that by now with so many departures - but evidently NOT. :ugh::=:mad::mad::mad::eek:

It is quite a shame because QR has a great, growing fleet, a good location (I still prefer Dubai but Doha was not too bad) and a decent overal package - it COULD be a great career airline. It has the potential - but the attrition rate among pilots suggests it is not there yet. Other regional airlines (and those in China/Asia with growing fleets) will benefit.

[Iver]

King,

I have found the following links for ME airlines on PPJN (a public website) - look in the ME section. The link for that other big UAE airline was not included. Not sure how accurate or up-to-date these figures are.




Qatar Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Qatar_Airways)

and

Emirates pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Emirates)

and

flydubai pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/flydubai)

and

Air Arabia pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Air_Arabia)

[ManaAdaSystem]

Don't give mana any info. I think he is management and will only use what others do in the region to try and get EK to join in the never ending downward spiral in conditions.

Nope. I just found that first 320 roster a bit too hard to believe. Two local nights in 7 days is pretty much an industry standard, but I'm not sure if it's applicable in QR? If it's not, then they can work you a lot harder than the other ME carriers.
Two local nights off doesn't sound like a lot, but if you are faced with maximum 8 days off per month and a lot of night work, they can really be of help.

[King on a Wing]

Thx Iver. Good info

[Chiao]

why nobody talks about Ethihad,I recok its pretty good.

[Saltaire]

That post pretty much sums things up over there - a high standard of goodly english.

[slowjet]

And the awareness ! Now, I wonder why no-one is talking about Etihad & , therefore, would you want to go there as a result ? Somebody, earlier, offred the advice that Gulfair on the Embraer was "the best gig" . Well, 1.5 years later, all those guys had to go walking the streets ! Yankeydoodle, same advice...........Stay where you are !

[RETARD_RETARD_RETARD]

Whilst a lot of the lads here have said their peace, and shockingly, almost everyone seem to be calling a spade a space!(!)!..!!..

I left Dubai during its first Gold Rush(2006)and was out by time the Klondike camps started to close. I've seen Dubai, Doha and Bahrain at its best, and worse.

For the Family Guy | Well, if your married, Dubai would make sense, sure you have schools, company sponsored villas(depending on where you stand in the food chain) easy access to shopping, activity to keep the Mrs. Busy and out and about, fun for the kids and enough watering holes to restore the ol nerves in the evening. Dubai is good as long as you refrain from the filth of the middle east; namely immigrants from 'piss-poor' countries who throng the place to make a quick buck, shaft a few credit card companies and return back to Morrocco, Egypt, Syria(or whats left of it), Yemen, Tunisa, Sudan, Iran(The wise asses who drive the most Chevy Camaro's) and Iraq(the maniacs driving the Ford Mustangs).

Dubai's nice as long as you keep to yourself and have like minded folks around. IT really isnt a place to mingle and socialize, unless you want to find your wife caught up on the "Afghan R and R" orgy scene(or if thats your thing, sure, there are loads of villa's into that).

Locals are arrogant, annoying, rude and nasty; and the cops cant be trusted in Dubai. period.

For the Single Guy | I'd put my money on Bahrain, its more expat friendly, the city's get a vibrant and respectable night life, you actually CAN meet a reasonably decent chick here unlike Dubai where she'd steel your credit card and vanish back to where she comes from!. Bahrain's been the most liberal of all the Middle East nations and the locals are extremely friendly and hospitable. I remember a story from the 1990's, when a family invited us to their joint and gave us a feast!. these were the days when cellphones were called "car-phones".

Oman in times to come "Might be the ideal place for the Family | I've flown and been around Muscat a few times, its not as lavish or "BLAH" as Dubai, but the people make up for it. the Money is good, increasingly they seem to be building up reasonable leisure spots, locals are humble, friendly and extremely possessive of expats(they feel they still owe us gratitude when he helped them during war they had in the early 70's); and importantly, Muscat/Oman is extremely safe. Not just that, it has water and is green, unlike Dubai or Bahrain for that matter.

These are based on my personal observations of having flown a lot around the ME; whilst opinions differ, Muscat night be a nice place to come into in next few years.

All the best mate!

[Aerodmb]

how does AUH compare?

[RETARD_RETARD_RETARD]

AUH was before my time, so cant say that i know about them that much.

On this forum, the "HAD" and "HAD-NOT-HAD-HADH" are words that strictly are forbidden, by Royal Decree, unless you want to die the death of a thousand cuts or be lashed in Public.

Something like using the "N" word in Africa, the "C" word in China or the "H" word in a southern state in the U.S.

THe sheer fact that someone suckered the "dim-wit" arab into sponsoring Manchester City itself says a lot.

Though, i must admit, M-City is doing rather well, arent they?.

[Flyer1015]

Wait, why would you leave an employed job as a A320 pilot in the USA to fly in the Middle East? JetBlue/Virgin/Spirit/Frontier/legacy even as FO you can hit six figures in just a couple years. I would leave a regional to go to the ME, but no way would I leave a LCC/Legacy (unless furloughed) for the ME.

[ironbutt57]

nail-on-the-head flyer:ok:

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Muscat night be a nice place to come into in next few years.

Agree on that. Provided there will be jobs.
Great city. Down to Earth locals with a great sense of humor.

[loc22550]

In Muscat ( Oman) locals have to work (like in the normal world)and you can find them working everywhere ( shops, hotels, taxi drivers,... contrary to some others countries in the gulf .
You feel the difference immediatly in the mentality,they don't self proclamed themself VVIP people simply because they are locals unlike some other countries around.

[Aerodmb]

Flyer: Because some people may want to fly international for the adventure, upgrade on wide body in 2-3 years, make tax free (up to $97k) six figures plus housing stipend, and not fly 3-5 legs per day around the US. Now I'm single with no family so I have a different perspective than the family guys...it's all about how you view the opportunities and what your goals are, whether ME or LCC in the states. Good luck to those facing the decision!

[RETARD_RETARD_RETARD]

Muscat i'm sure would do well. And fully agree with LOC2250.

Being an expat and i'm sure a lot of ladies and germs here would agree, any region where the local population exceeds the expat colony would obviously be a nice place, and Muscat does truely fall in that category.

Yup, apart from the locals practically runing everytihng, right frmo taxi's to the post office, the 7-11 stores and the souks, they have a different sense of respect for someone outta town.

It is one hellvoa relief not seeing that many Filipono's, Indian's pakistani's and bangladeshi's weave their way into the lower tier 'worker-bracket', although i'd firmly like to state that i have nothing against Filipono's, Indian's pakistani's and bangladeshi's and i respect their contribution to what they do to keep our cities running, not having them around in Muscat that much does give the place a sense of being "NORMAL".

I'm not sure if anyone here had any interaction with Omani pilots, atleast with my experience of chatting up with them, they do come across as extremely conducive and i've sensed a lot of 'mutual-professional' respect from them.

Although being an expat and flown in a few places where the local pilots gang up on the expats, especially with the "They get paid more than we do" and the "..THrow the expats out"... retort, i've rarely seen that come from Oman.

THere's a lot of Ag Aviation or crop dusting in Oman so yeah, it does feel normal when your flying in that region, kinda reminds you of home when you hear some sense of reality as opposed to everything being 'plasticky and window-dressed' on the Radio.

Oman air does have some interesting growth plans so flagging that airline for the future might make sense.

[Mr Mac]

No longer live and work in middle east but lived there - Dubai, Kingdom, Oman in 1980,s and would say Oman and its people were, and still are the best place to live in those parts. Only have to travel in ME for short stays now, and would say Dubai is like teenager on speed, everything wanted Now with little planning:rolleyes:. The Kingdom is er, very different :oh:. Oman has order, and a plan, GREAT PEOPLE and in my opinion is the pick of the bunch out there :ok::ok::ok:.

[RETARD_RETARD_RETARD]

hi Mac,

Well, looks like you were smarter than me mate; you left the dump-hole at the right time and when it still was respectable and decent.

Although ive been criticized for slamming Dubai, i agree with the Young kid on speed reference, it really is the pits off late.

Oman's such a sea change than the other places; its that sheer level of warmth that the people have which its it all worthwhile.

I left OMDB around early 2000's; but yeah, in your days i'm sure it was awesome.

See you around mate!.