Mercy Flights

[Fission]

In a discussion over beers last night with other pilots we started exploring what flights one could conduct under a Mercy Flight category.

Given the situation that someone was going to die, and there was no other option, could one reasonably expect to be permitted to:

Fly a twin without endorsement
Fly without a weather forecast
Fly across an international border
Fly at night without rating
Fly over water without raft or survival gear

Obviously not all of the above at once and not a close family member (which would cloud risk assessment).

Thoughts ?

[VH-XXX]

Interesting topic:

Personally, my thoughts would be the following for your standard VFR pilot... however it depends on you personally. I understand that a Mercy flight is one where you know that a rule or multiple rules are going to be broken during the flight.

No:

Fly a twin without endorsement
Fly at night without rating

Yes:

Fly without a weather forecast
Fly across an international border
Fly over water without raft or survival gear

The difference between a No and a Yes in my mind are around whether you took off knowing that you were not qualified for the flight that was about to take place and whether or not you would be accepting a large amount of risk in conducting such flight.

It's just a risk equation. If you were standing next to a Seneca, your friend has a heart attach and you were 1 hour by Seneca from the nearest medical aid and you were 4 hours by car, plus you have a few twin hours in your log book, a a few hours flying unofficialyl with your mate, no endorsement, but you know in your mind that you would be very safe, then that's up to you.... I can't see insurance paying out if it goes pear shaped though.

Same goes with the night flight. You haven't flown at night, are not confident and don't know if you'd make it safely - then don't do it! To the contrary, if you have a few night hours at night, but personally guarantee yourself that you will be 100% safe, then you'd think about it. Remember you kill yourself AND your mate if it all goes wrong and you might need to scrape your bank account for a new aircraft when insurance won't pay out.


I am aware of a REAL mercy flight that took place some years ago and it might be in his book. If I recall correctly Ben Buckley flew a young child into Essendon when the child had their leg severely severed in an accident. The weather was not suitable for VFR into Essendon but Ben insisted that he could get in there. The tower / radar advised him to not attempt to land because he would not be able to. I believe he did manage to successfully land and the child was rushed to hospital. Unfortunately the operation wasn't successful and the child lost their leg.

The closest I have personally had to a mercy flight was where I was phoned by the Police in an emergency situation where an aircraft was desperately needed as PolAir was unavailable. Due to where I was standing at the time and the fact that the aircraft was full of fuel and warmed up, I was able to be airborne within a minute. I knew nothing of the mission brief other than that a gunman was on the loose in a near-by town so I entered into the flight by not knowing which rules were going to be broken if any. A few small rules were broken during this flight and a succesful result followed, however I wouldn't like to be standing in front of CASA if things went bad!

[Biggles78]

Fly a twin without endorsement - NO
Fly without a weather forecast - NO
Fly across an international border - NO
Fly at night without rating - NO
Fly over water without raft or survival gear - NO

In all cases you are putting lives at risk to try and save one. Depending on the border, you could get shot down!

ALL flights must be done legally. That is why there are regulations to ensure this happens.

[VH-XXX]

ALL flights must be done legally. That is why there are regulations to ensure this happens.

Not quite.... that's what a Mercy flight is all about, where you KNOW you are going to break a rule.



http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/vfr/vfrg-whole.pdf

Page 395.

[Fission]

Although CASR 91.170 authorises the declaration of a mercy flight, the pilot and operator remain bound by Civil Aviation Act Section 20A, which prohibits careless or reckless operations.

How does one define 'reckless' quantitatively - remember - you/re in court after saving life now !

[weloveseaplanes]

What would Smithy have done to save someone's life?

[solowflyer]

Not sure if it happened or not but was a question floatIng around The flying school when studying CPL law as to if a flight was legal or not. Story was a bloke had been attacked by a shark on the Chatham islands and was evacuated to the mainland in a metroliner. No qualified pilot was available to do the flight but a pilot who had done all the training and was about to be signed off was and did the flight even though did not have the stamp in his logbook. The question was would we do the flight?

[Frank Arouet]

It all depends upon the outcome of the flight.

If the patient is saved, the pilot is a Hero.

If the patient is not saved, the Lawyers get into the pilot, the pilot pleads his case eventually in The AAT and is found guilty.

One wonders had the Pelair flight into Northfolk Is been declared a mercy flight what would havee been the outcome seeing as all survived including the patient.

REG 206 has many strange and twisted interpretations.

Be careful of the repercussions.

[Wally Mk2]

'XXX' has it pretty much covered here:-)

'Biggles' obviously you mean well but are incorrect in some .of yr content as has been mentioned.
I've done around 3 or so Mercy Flts as there was no other option at the time that could be taken to complete the mission. The ONLY rules that where not complied with where duty hrs & the addition of another pilot which was needed on certain long duty timed flights, all other rules that involved safety directly such as A/C serviceability, fuel requirements, compliance with WX etc,crew ability/authority & Equip where never broken, anything else outside of those area's was willful disregard for life before you even launched the mission.

The main criteria was that the CP had to be informed & that all reasonable alternative possibilities where considered/exhausted BEFORE a Mecry Flt was undertaken & even then there was paper work for the Flt at the end of the mission.
It was taken lightly that's for sure!

There's a saying that we whom where involved at putting lives at risk to save others ........... "there's no point in killing 3 or 4 to save one, made sense to me, life preservation begins with ones self:ok:


Wmk2

[compressor stall]

G'Day Fission, long time no speak! :ok:

Knowingly exceeding Flight and Duty times would be the most obvious one.

What about having had one sip of a stubbie when the phone rings? :p

[baswell]

In all cases you are putting lives at risk to try and save one.
From now on, all ambulances will follow the speed limit and not run red lights! :ok:

[SgtBundy]

From now on, all ambulances will follow the speed limit and not run red lights!

Bit of a stretch there - the ambulance drivers are trained, have equipment (sirens, radios) to assist in getting attention and through traffic and are unlikely to have any issues with granite clouds. The argument here is how much risk do you take outside your permitted capabilities.

My completely unqualified and inexperienced position would be legalities should not enter into it, only safety. If, with all factors considered, you can safely complete the mission then that is all there is to it. That assumes you confidently know your limits, the limits of the aircraft and the conditions facing you - completely separate from charging in cowboy mode to be a hero - can you do it *safely*.

It would be a sorry state if your answer to a coroner one day had to be "I was worried about the AAT".

[morno]

One such situation that the operation I'm involved in will declare a mercy flight for, is when the use of car headlights are required for landing.

We are trained to be able to do them, however they're technically not legal.

baswell, I understand where you're coming from, however an ambulance will break rules with careful risk management. The risk management in aeromedical intervenes when the risk taken outweighs the gain made. So yes for high priority tasks, we will accept a higher risk. We just need to ensure the mitigation factors are there as well.

Unless it's life and death, there are little tasks that I as the PIC of my aircraft would accept, that places myself, my aircraft and my crew in a high risk situation. If we didn't keep a sensible approach to it, then aeromedical in this country would start heading the way of aeromedical in the US, where life and limb is placed on the line simply to save someone with a broken arm, simply because the other operation up the road may get the job instead.

morno

[baswell]

Please use my quote in context. It was a sarcastic response to a claim that implied that mercy flights should not even exist as one should never risk your own life to save another.

[avconnection]

That's an absurdly ignorant view.

If morno's clearly reasonable scenario of headlight landings was not enough, what about limited lighting (6 runway lights total)? What about doing 15 hours duty with a 5 hour rest at the hospital in between? What about arriving at the destination and after 3 approaches and a lowering minima, conducting an ILS without it having being renewed (despite having 100s of PIC hand flown ILS under you belt)? All because getting to a capital city hospital is the only way that person will survive? They're all mercy flights, they're all, for the most part, normal ops.

Perhaps these should be limited to Aeromed and kept out of the hands of the general flyers (PPL CPL ATPL or other). But by having already had it without incident for the last xx years would leave CASA liable if someone dies as a result of removing it.

[Al Fentanyl]

FWIW:

In Qld, ambulance officers operating under the Qld Ambulance Service act (and police, and fire services) do NOT have carte blanche to break the road (or any other) law. The Strict Liability of an offence does not necessarily apply but the driver of an ambulance may be held to account for their actions.

Also, there is very little evidence that 'rushing' anywhere is of any actual benefit in reducing morbidity or mortality in severe illness or trauma. A study in USA demonstrated an average time difference of <42 seconds between a 'lights and sirens' run to a hospital vs a normal drive. It DID however show a much higher chance of injury to both ambulance personnel and other road users from the dangers inherent in emergency driving.

As far as Mercy Flights go, the criteria are pretty clear. There must be serious and immediate threat and no better alternative, plus regulations are going to be broken. In Oz these days with the high standard of ground ambulance services plus RFDS and emergency helicopters providing medical cover across most of the country a genuine mercy flight would be very unlikely.

I believe RFDS does occasionally declare a mercy flight for landings on unsurveyed public roads.

[Frank Arouet]

Brown snake bite. Two hours max to cardiac arrest. Three hours to get RFDS to the site. You take off with arrangements to meet RFDS half way.

It's VFR but night. You're not current not having flown in the preceeding few weeks with a circuit or pax.

Hanging offence?

[Al Fentanyl]

Frank - with respect - I get your intent but your example is Horsesh!t.

Plenty of people have died from snakebite. However - where appropriate and timely first aid has been applied NO fatalities from venomous snakebites have been recorded in Australia.

Lie the patient down, bind the site and the limb (no, don't wash it, cut it, suck it, pour beer on it, burn it or anything else, don't try and catch the bloody snake either), splint it to stop movement, keep the patient calm and wait for assistance. 3 hours? No prob. Won't even be showing any symptoms by the time the team arrives. In fact if they remain asymptomatic they won't even get antivenom until at hospital when the site has been swabbed to identify the snake and the blood work shows toxicity.

Having said that - with a legitimate threat to life & limb and a deliberate busting of a rule, where the risk of doing the proposed thing is less than the risk to the patient without the proposed thing being done, a mercy flight would be appropriate.

[Howard Hughes]

What would Smithy have done to save someone's life?
What would Nancy have done?:ok:

[Roger Greendeck]

Over my time I have conducted a number of what, in the civil sphere, would be termed a mercy flights. The military equivelent at the time used different terminology. Examples include exceeding crew duty, ignoring a noise abatement area, and non-standard recording of maintenance action (the work was carried out and normally the aircraft would be shut down to do the paperwork).

The key thing was risk assessment and management and in each case there was more than one person involved in the decision making process in order to ensure that no-one was getting carried away. When I first got checked out as a helo captain the checker took a great deal of time to emphasise the importance of remaining part of the solution rather than part of the problem. It is very easy to get a rush of blood to the head but the laws of physics still apply, your capability doesn't suddenly get better, and cutting corners doesn't always save a meaningful amount of time.

As for the examples at the begining each could be done, but:

Fly a twin without endorsement. Maybe, if you have relavent experience but are not rated on that type this might be safe but for an inexperienced pilot with no twin time the risk is high.

Fly without a weather forecast. Depends on what information you do have. But the chances of not being able to get suitable weather info pretty quickly from ATC after getting airborne in this day and age are pretty slim.

Fly across an international border. Yes, but depends on which country you are heading into, there are parts of the world where you might be putting yourself at serious risk.

Fly at night without rating. If you don't know anything about flying at night or instrument flying this is, of course, best left alone. But a more reasonable example might be a military pilot who does not hold a CIR or NVFR rating but is current on the aircraft, he aircraft is suitable equiped and he/she has a valid military instrument rating.
Fly over water without raft or survival gear.

The risk management process for a mercy flight is the key. Why is it not within the existing rules? Just like a checklist rules can't cater for every situation and there will be times where a rule can be broken safely. I can't stress enough though, resist the urge to rush in. There are many, many dead pilots, pax, and casualties from well intentioned MEDEVACS that did not work out.

[weloveseaplanes]

The question was would we do the flight?

Fair enough.

Another question you could ask is, if your loved one was dying would you want the pilot to fly her to safety or leave her to die?

I agree with Roger Greendeck. It comes down to Risk Management, and Courage to do what you know is right and is required.

What ever the pilot decides he has to look at himself in the mirror for the rest of his days . . .

[FokkerInYour12]

When all else fails, turn to the bible:

Rumack (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000558/): Can you fly this plane, and land it?
Ted Striker (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001332/): Surely you can't be serious.
Rumack (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000558/): I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

And for afer the fact:

Elaine Dickinson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0353546/): You got a letter from headquarters this morning.
Ted Striker (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001332/): What is it?
Elaine Dickinson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0353546/): It's a big building where generals meet, but that's not important.

And during the event:

Captain Oveur (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/): You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0365283/): No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336335/): You ever seen a grown man naked?

(sorry had to do it - it's Friday)

[Sunfish]

Rule One in any rescue or first aid situation: DO NOT BECOME A CASUALTY YOURSELF.

Breaking procedural rules, violating controlled airspace, etc, etc. Possible.

Violating the laws of physics and attempting to learn on the job. Not

[Ixixly]

On a slightly different but related note. We had CASA come out to do some Safety Talks at a town a while ago, great bunch of blokes who were there and whilst a lot of it was common sense stuff, it was nice to have a refresher and a good intro for new guys coming into the wet season.

One point brought up to the CASA Blokes was conducting an IFR Approach when your Instrument Rating is no longer current and/or you're not current on the approach type.

Their view at the time was that if you were in a bad situation where you ended up IFR and needed a way to get on the ground, you were confident you could SAFELY perform the approach, the aircraft itself was suitably equipped and the tower was informed of your predicament and what you were going to do and you reported the situation to CASA after the flight they wouldn't hang you out to dry and would be supportive as long as you had a good reason for doing so.

[thorn bird]

I think the question to ask is, is it worth risking my career
and livelyhood to conduct such a flight.
Given the nature of our regulator I dont think I would, not
without an authorisation signed by the Skull himself.
Ixily
mate only a fool would believe anything CASA said.

[Ixixly]

ThornBird, I agree you have to take what they say with a big grain of salt, but having personally had dealings with them after having an incident in which an aircraft was written off, I found them to be quite understanding. They took on board all I said, no finger pointing just trying to find anything useful in terms of safety and then doing what could be done to plug any gaps found. Just my experiences so far.

[YPJT]

When a potentially life threatening incident occurs many untrained and inexperienced people tend to throw caution and common sense to the wind and do something they would not otherwise dream of.

I cringe at the number of times people have said they would load an injured person into the nearest avalable bug smasher and fly them to a hospital. One clown even thought it would be ok to just plonk his Cessna down on Langley Park because it was nice and close to Royal Perth Hospital.

I would suggest that in most cases, you will help the ijured person more by applying sound first aid until qualified help arrives. Just my 2c worth.

[Desert Flower]

One such situation that the operation I'm involved in will declare a mercy flight for, is when the use of car headlights are required for landing.

We are trained to be able to do them, however they're technically not legal.

What about flares? In some outback areas car headlights would be far better than the flare setups!

DF.

[poonpossum]

Had a kid pop the bone out of his leg a few weeks into my first job, got him back to the mainland after end of daylight. Runway was dark but there were still wisps of light in the sky. He was bleeding everywhere and it wasn't nice.

RFDS can't land on the island in question and a boat would have had him about 4 hours further away from first aid then what we would have.

They flew him out the next morning after the nurses stabalised him over night and he lived and kept his leg.

[morno]

We use car headlights when all other means of lighting have been exhausted DF. Flares are always considered (used them many a time, excellent lighting), however sometimes some places just don't have them. Or the owners are away and the caretaker doesn't know where they are. Or it's blowing a gale (obviously still within flying limits, :)) and the use of flares would either cause the countryside to be set alight or not even be possible to get going!

There are many situations, however, we can't just use car headlights unless it's a mercy flight.

morno

[Biggles78]

Not quite.... that's what a Mercy flight is all about, where you KNOW you are going to break a rule.
You are of course quite right however I was looking at it from a personal perspective and a worst case one. I also misread the OP and took it as a question from someone with a newish PPL and was hesitant about "approving" Mercy Flight as such. I shouldn't have made that misleading comment about the regulations in this case so my apologies for that but my intentions, though misguided, were well meaning.

I am multi endorsed but I would not be climbing into a PA31 without some previous time on type. I have read the POH, am theoretically quite familiar with it and could more than likely handle a circuit or 5 but at night and from what I have flown that would be a handful even without the added pressure of a Mercy Flight in mind (remember that Get Home Itis is too much pressure for some pilots never mind that their friend/family member may die if you do nothing). Just another thought, even though I have read all about the PT6 and its' operation, I would be hesitant about using a C208. I have no doubts in my ability to fly one but if anything went wrong I could be seriously up **** creek.

Weather forecast, we know how quickly it can change here. We only have to cast our minds back a few weeks to the tragic flight of VH-UXG. Experienced pilot and he had a forecast.

International border was covered and why. If done in Asia then you are likely to spend time in a concrete room with vertical bars on the window but then a Mercy Flight wouldn't be covered since you most likely won't be under Oz regs. I don't think then in my response you would get shot down flying from the NT to QLD.

Night flight. Well, certainly not in a multi if not endorsed on type. I just like to know where all the switches and breakers are from muscle memory (if possible) in case the lights go out. Most certainly not if no forecast available and if the pilot undertaking this "flight" had never landed at night. I still remember my first night landings at an International airport that was well lit and waiting for the runway edge lights to come up to eye level in my peripheral vision. Lots of concentration was required. I tested myself on what concentration was required at night when I was flying dual by talking to the instructor. My babbling stopped when I was turning final which was surprising as I had no trouble with my instructor patter to a landing during daylight.

Over water, ok I may have wimped it on this one (I am a believer that the engine deliberately goes into auto rough as it goes feet wet, but how does it know? :ooh:). King Island either north or south yes. However distance to cover and aircraft speed would need to be considered as would the ELT/EPIRB. Sorry, time spent over the water would probably be a better way of expressing that previous sentence. The time of a C152 crossing Bass Strait is obviously not the same as a C310.

Add all those circumstances together and the holes can start to line up. I flew with some wise words that I shall forever remember. If there is doubt then there is no doubt.

Someone wiser than me, hell, road kill is wiser than me, said in an above post that Mercy Flights are a judgement call. But what pressure is placed on the pilot and by the pilot themself to make the decision to fly especially in a time sensitive environment. Perhaps Mercy Flights should be limited to PPLs who have a minimum number of hours, say 500 and to CPLs.

I feel for anyone who has to make the decision on whether to make a flight like this or not who really doesn't quite have the experience or qualifications to make it without requiring a lot of thought for a yes or no answer.

[Frank Arouet]

Frank - with respect

I forgot to add, the snakebite victim had chronic renal disorder.

But then again to dispense with the lecture on snakebite statistics, the victim could just as easily been stabbed by a stingray. What's the stats on that survivability?

The point obviously lost was the pilot had a NVFR, had flown Solo the night before, but due to not carrying pax in the preceeding required interval, he was technically not current to carry pax.

Now pick that apart.:suspect:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I am sure that many on here who have been around for a few years will be able to recall a number of well meaing "mercy flights that ended in tears. I won't quote examples here, but can personally recall at least two that resulted in multiple loss of life.

Fly a twin without endorsement - No!
Fly without a weather forecast - Depends!
Fly across an international border - No!
Fly at night without rating - No!
Fly over water without raft or survival gear - Maybe!

Dr :8

[Frank Arouet]

The bottom line is referenced by the term "The Pilot in Command".

Who in Canberra is in any position to judge a midnight flight in NT when a mate is in grave and serious distress.

We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?

If you consider it that serious, "JUST DO IT" and suffer the consequences later.

I've never been done for my last one. Good mate broke both legs riding a quad. Pig got at him while crawling nearly 8KM home. Chewed him up a bit. Night takeoff on the landing light from a claypan in a Comanche.

No VHF reception and the plastic cup from the HF is on the boundary wire at the last airport.

No phone, just yourself to decide.

What would you do?

[VH-XXX]

Night takeoff on the landing light from a claypan in a Comanche.

Doesn't sound too bad, so why not. If it was good enough to land, it is probably good enough to take off again.

[Frank Arouet]

Yes, well. You had to be there really.

Pilot in command had a certain meaning. It still has.

One wonders today about the firearms and ammunition in the aircraft that night. Todays standard, destination is a security controlled airport.

I've had the best years of my flying. I pity all of you who have to ask directions about legalities before performing an unselfish act of kindness. I'm over it.

[VH-XXX]

Don't worry Frank, there's still plenty of fun flying going on out there, just like there used to be. The trick is not getting caught up in the politics and subscribing to the digital era of finger pointing and blame game. Agreed though, things have changed, particularly since the inception of iPhones.

[Aerodynamisist]

Thankfully I have not been put in the situation of having to perform a mercy flightt and I hope I never am. However it is nice to know there is some protection in the form of a mercy flight clause, even if it doesn't fit our pre-conceived notion that it would give us direction on the rules it is OK to break.

Given that Smithy taught Nancy I guess they both would have done the same thing.

[InDaBack]

I have been a paramedic for over 30 years and of the thousands of emergency calls I have responded to, very few are real life threatening emergencies.

With people who are not involved in emergency response, and that includes a lot of doctors and nurses, the biggest problem is panic because they don't really know what they are dealing with and what to do about it.

My advice to you as pilots is to
take a step back, take a deep breath.
get on the phone to the RFDS doctor and ask for advice
THEN
make your Risk/Benefit assessment as to undertaking the flight.

RFDS, Careflight etc are very good with giving information and helping people handle an emergency so don't be scared to ask.

[Fission]

"It's easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission"

I understand that Mercy Flights don't permit cart blanche rule breaking, but provide an option when someone is in grave danger. What interests me is the legal wrangling over 'should the flight have happened in the first place'.

As we can see here, there are many differing opinions about what is acceptable.

I'm experienced, and I have children - both make me risk averse and aware of my limitations. However, I'd be prepared to take a considered increase in risk to save life that could potentially cost me my licence.

[Sunfish]

This is an unpleasant video of a mercy flight that went wrong.

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=KNzbaQ9dfwg)

[VH-XXX]

Some would argue that every flight in a Cessna is a mercy flight, or is that Jabiru's, I can't remember? :ouch::ouch:

[morno]

How do you conclude that it was a mercy flight Sunfish?

To me it looks like an aeromedical evac gone wrong.

morno

[HF3000]

Overloading an aircraft might be one rule best not to break even for a Mercy flight... Having said that, major Australian airlines did just that during the Darwin cyclone evac.

[FGD135]

Fly a twin without endorsement - No!


Why the great opposition to flying a twin when not endorsed? Those who think this should not be done are demonstrating that they are not very good at weighing risk.

I assume the opposition is based on the notion that the twin may go assymetric.

But, the question is NOT whether a non-endorsed pilot could handle an assymetric twin;

The question is whether such a course would be "safe" in the context of a mercy flight. Given that the person will likely die without the flight, then the answer is a resounding YES.

Think about the probabilities of the two events.

The twin going assymetric? A chance of about 1 in 10,000.
The person dying? A chance of about 1 in 10.

On those odds, I would be more than happy for a non-twin endorsed pilot to fly a twin on a mercy flight to move a family member of mine that would likely die if not flown.

[weloveseaplanes]

We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?

If you consider it that serious, "JUST DO IT" and suffer the consequences later.

Had a couple of perhaps related experiences in a completely different arena - the Dojo. I've done karate in a few different countries and a few different styles and was surprised how often the West is more touch with the spirit of karate than the modern East.

Always remember something that struck me when doing karate in the Garden City. There was a public exhibition of a variety of martial art styles the next day in the town hall. The class the night before was one of the hardest I ever experienced. I wasn't in the exhibition the next day but remember how hard the Sensei pushed us all. "The future doesn't exist. Do what is right is now." He said every punch, every strike, every kick you must give your full energy. He wouldn't let them save any energy or spare any thought for the next day. This went on for a couple of brutal hours. It was one of the best classes I ever had where we couldn't afford to consider the future and were thus able to reach a level of performance not normally obtained. The next day our team wasn't as sharp as they would have been had they had a relaxing light session but we all had the memory to treasure of truly having done our best.

Then in Japan I was in a style that stressed excellence through winning competitions. The night before an important competition the Japanese sensei said "just take it easy tonight. Tomorrow is the important day." During that class I was cautioned for putting into too much energy. I felt like a puppet going through the actions of doing something now while worrying about possible future outcomes.

I was bought up to believe that you do your best now when it counts and was shocked to see how even in the home of karate people in that style had become results orientated rather than effort orientated.

Likewise I always thought the Spirit of Flying in Aviation was to help others, and the key to humanity is helping others.

Love the saying "a coward dies a thousand times a soldier* dies but once."
* in the context of a hero from Shaekespeare's Julius Ceaser

If someone's life is at risk, and you think you can do the job, well how about rather than worrying about being growled at by someone whose life is spent in an office, you man up and try to save the poor blighter.

[VH-XXX]

Scenario:

You are snorkeling off the Great Barrier Reef. Your snorkeling guide who's name is PianoMan is violently swept out to sea so he's gone and one fellow passenger in your Beaver has just had his leg bitten off by a Great White shark.

You are a PPL with 100 hours and have never flown off floats before. You don't have a CSU, retract or float rating.

Do you:

A. Crank up that Beaver and fly the patient home
B. Wait for the Bell 206 rescue chopper
C. Wake up and stop dreaming as you'll never fly a Beaver on floats out of the Whitsundays

[By George]

What ever you decide, do it quickly. Reminds me of the 17th July 1983 when Aero Commander VH-WJC went down in the Bass Straight. It took 2 hour to get a helicopter over the crew. Too late sadly. Bob Vowles in an F27 (VH-FNO) was over the top very quickly but there was little he could do.

On Feb 07th 1974 near a flooded Mungerbah Station in NW QLD, flying a C210, I spotted an 'SOS' made out of rocks. I landed on a nearby road and rescued a stockman with a burst appendix. When I got airborne, Townville Flight Service gave me 'permission to conduct a Mercy Flight'. I had been and gone by then. Just do what you think is right with safety, stuff the Rules.

[Biggles78]

Why the great opposition to flying a twin when not endorsed? Those who think this should not be done are demonstrating that they are not very good at weighing risk.
Or maybe the opposite and we are good at weighing the risk. SE pilot is going to be wondering where the other mag key is to start the second engine.
Ok, silliness over, just how would you expect a 100 pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?
Are they doing this Mercy Flight into a nice long runway or a marginal strip?
Is it dark or maybe the sun is very low and is shining into their eyes in this aircraft they have never flown before?
Just to be nice, let's assume the weather is perfect because it always is during an emergency like this.
Is your pilot going to take along someone to keep the critically injured person company and look after them. Maybe we should add a couple of more potential victims to this possible disaster scenario. The cheese is lining up nicely......Oh crap, the gear wasn't lowered (pilot didn't have that on their training aircraft or cowl flaps or CSU or Mains and Tip Tank fuel selection or Crossfeed or to make it even more complex, Turbocharger....asymetric condition here we come)

FDG, this can be a lot of risk assessment to weigh up especially for an inexperienced pilot in a pressure situation. We only need to look how some professional pilots react when flying for scenic operators in the outback (and I an NOT pointing any fingers)

Please do not take offence as none is intended but to put an inexperience M/E pilot into a type they have zero experience on doesn't seem like a good risk weight to me. I felt comfortable flying my multi but I would be very hesitant about jumping from a C310 into a PA31 or vice versa for that matter with zero PA31 time.

@By George. Your Mercy Flight is totally different to the original post. You were experienced on the aircraft. You had a road to land on and pick the victim up from. You also had a choice of reporting the SOS and letting others rescue them or do it yourself. Very different pressure wise than having an hysterical family member pleading with you to make the flight.

@VH-XXX. You 100 hour PPL, assuming he gets on the step and is able to get airborne, may either select Gear Down for his water landing at destination or leaves the magic wheel alone when they land on the runway. I would imagine in either scenario the flare would be "interesting" due to the unusual height our 100 hour PPL is used to. :ouch:

In the meantime, GOOD NEWS!! Piano Man is found by a pod of friendly dolphins who know of his love of their habitat and is safely whisked back to shore only to find ZDA on it's back in the water or in need of new floats. :uhoh:
Apologies if it has been said before PM, but, mmmm, nice beaver. :E

We really live in a "Nanny State" don't we?

I think it may more be a CASA Nazi State, Frank. "Vee haf vays und means off mayking you walk". :eek:

[morno]

SE pilot is going to be wondering where the other mag key is to start the second engine.
Ok, silliness over, just how would you expect a 100 pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?

But I saw in this movie once, a dude who was able to fly a............. :}:}:}

[kalavo]

As InDaBack stated very very few people are so critical they need to be moved immediately and in most of those cases you will do more harm by moving them. (Spinal cases for example are not a life or death emergency, but need to be properly transported with a neck brace, vacuum mat, etc. you throwing them in a Piper Warrior will more than likely do permanent damage).

The Mercy Flight allows you to break a rule when all other avenues have been exhausted. It does not allow you to take off in to the sunset because you think you might be helping.

If you have ANY form of contact with the outside world... Telephone, Satellite phone, HF, even VHF on 121.5, your best option is to call the aeromedical organisation in your state. They are in a much better position to make the judgement call on how best to handle the situation and task the appropriate resources. (No runway lights for example may mean an NVG equipped helicopter is tasked instead assuming the patient can not be appropriately managed until daylight)


Would suggest the Mercy flight rule would actually be most applicable to aeromed operators who have the resources (aviation and medical crew working together) to determine the safest possible outcome for both the crew and the patient and take the "all other avenues" cause far more seriously.

[FGD135]

... how would you expect a 100 hour pilot, to use triple X's example, to be able to start a PA31 and manage the fuel system and just to line up the cheese, in the dark?


Biggles78,
You are talking about a situation where the pilot is unfamiliar with the aircraft and/or is inexperienced. This has nothing to do with whether the aircraft is multiengined or not. Those things you listed could apply equally for a SE pilot contemplating a mercy flight in a SE machine with which he is unfamiliar.

The point of my post was to address the view - expressed by a number of posters to this thread - that flight of a ME aircraft by a SE pilot is too risky for a mercy flight situation.

I demonstrated, by way of the probabilities, that this factor, by itself, should not stop a mercy flight. That is, the risks posed by an SE pilot flying a ME aircraft were tiny in comparison to the risk that the person would die.

Naturally, and I thought this would have been too obvious to need spelling out, there may be other risk factors such as night, low pilot experience, etc.

This thread has shown that a number of posters are having difficulties getting their heads around the fundamentals of mercy flights. To this end, the thread has been useful at encouraging thought and discussion.

Those fundamentals are:

1. Somebody will most likely die if the flight is not undertaken;
2. No other option for evacuating the person is available within the time available;
3. Some rule(s) must be broken;

Mercy flights will thus always involve some added risk. The challenge is to identify and accurately weigh those risks.


If you have ANY form of contact with the outside world...

kalavo, you are talking about a situation where you are confronted with a sick or injured person. This is NOT the situation that is the subject of this thread. To make it applicable to this thread, you need to imagine that the person will probably die if YOU don't fly them to where they can be treated - and that to do so, you must break some rules.

You can't assume the RFDS can get to you in time. YOU may have to make that mercy flight.

[Ixixly]

OR...

Perhaps being that guy with little M/E Experience you realise you CAN turn on the electronics and knowing how to operate the radios you get on the radio, explain your situation to anyone who is listening and ask for someone who does have experience on a PA31/Whatever to run you through the basics to get you underway safely!! Or perhaps you can only get ATC and you explain it to them and get to call the first appropriate training school they can think of and get them on the horn for you to run you through it!!

Hows that for out of the box thinking?