WW2 Rear Aircrew parachutes.

[Flag Track]

The chest mounted jobbers, when operated do the lift webs/pack go above the head so your suspended by the shoulders?

Thanks, FT

[Halton Brat]

Don't know about the WW2 chest mounted 'chutes, but the modern chest mounted reserve suspends you from its' mounting point on the harness at chest level.

Remember being a bit concerned that this would just deploy up & into whatever bag of laundry my main had become, in the event of a drama. Despite the PJI's re-assurances, I was determined to cut away the main 'chute before deploying the reserve......glad I didn't have to.........

HB

[charliegolf]

HB

I'm not the most observant bloke, but when I did my 2 jumps back in the 80s, I have no recollection of a cutaway choice. Pull the reserve, don't pull it. They were the choices. Agree the reserve had you hanging from the connectors on the main harness- chest high ish.

CG

[jimgriff]

WW2 chest mounted parachutes were clipped onto two fast mount "hooks" which were on the ends of the risers which were in turn routed down the front of the harness and tacked to the harness with a breaktie of some 22lb breaking strength.
The parachute pack had two "D" rings on the backplate which could be lined up with the hooks on the upper belly area.

When the 'chute was deployed the liftwebs were "ripped" free of the harness and the user ended up suspended from the shoulders like a "normal" parachute.

More detail if needed?

[Wensleydale]

Assuming that the WW2 vintage harness was identical to that used by the Shackleton rear crew, then you were left suspended just like a conventional harness.

If anybody has one that we could display in the RAF Waddington Heritage Centre, then please get in touch!

[Halton Brat]

Hi CG, my only experience relates to a water descent jump from a Brize Hercules into Studland Bay, near Poole.

This was around 1984 - the 'chutes that we used had an almost car-type seat belt buckle attachment for the main risers at the shoulder. To release these, you had to pull & lift a toggle at each buckle on top of your shoulder - the relevant riser was then pulled free by the 'chute.

Indeed, the drill on descent was (once you had finished screaming) to lower the reserve on its' x metre long lanyard (once you were happy with your main....), then to grasp either one of the release toggles at your shoulder in the final few seconds of descent & operate it when the reserve hit the water (followed by your good self).

In operating one release toggle, the 'chute collapsed & you could not embark on a 10-knot drag whilst attempting to drink the English Channel. The charming & courteous Royal Marines would then rock up to rescue the parachute - their #1 priority in case it went into the prop of their Gemini motor. I was left for some time, breaking the world doggy-paddle record, whilst they did this - we were only meant to inflate our life-jacket in extremis. Lewis Collins (actor chap) & some girls from the GQ parachute factory were on my jump, so I thought I'd better man-up a bit.

Though my "excuse me Flight" question relating to cutting-away the main before deploying the reserve was met with a negative response, it seemed to be the way to go to me; I guess the PJI staff were thinking about our low exit height - c.1200'.

Jumping out of an aircraft that is not on fire is not smart..........

HB

[charliegolf]

So to be clear, HB, you leapt from a servicable aeroplane- questionable- into water,salt, general purpose, not-for-the-drinking-of? TV Rental, or what?:ok:

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

WD, try BBMF they may have a timex one around.

[Motleycallsign]

No 1 PTS at BZN has a small museum, they may have an answer.

[Tankertrashnav]

Never mind WW2, we still had chest mounted chutes on Hastings at Lindhome in the early 70s. We flew in harness but the chutes themselves were stored in a rack on the fuselage side. The only time I got near to wearing one was when our FE managed to cut all 4 engines simultaneously (dont ask me how he did it) and everything went quiet. Amazing how fast you can move when you realise you are flying in a 70,000lb glider, and several of us had got to the chute rack by the time the engines coughed back into life again!

[VX275]

I donated 2 of these harnesses to tHe Museum of Army Flying a few years ago (they were used by passengers in the assault gliders). I've no doubt that they are still there as the curator is well known for throwing nothing away

[Tinribs]

We had the chest type chutes on the Varsity for certain exercises in the 60s as I recall them being carried on the Varsity in the 80s on the fog flights, just in case the kit failed

The chute fitted into two clips on the pack you were already wearing and on release the hooks were dragged from the chest houseings to hang above you

I did the Para couse in the 60s and there was always a great deal of thought about the need to use the reserve chute if the main developed a serious problem like blown gores or a loop over

As I recall they said if you seemed to need it deploy the chute and if you could get it to fly use it if not leave it alone

[Pontius Navigator]

I recall a para drill in the Shacklebomber when we went through the training in 1981. As I had used the kit in the Varsity, and as TTN said, the Hastings and later the Lanc I was quite familiar with it.

I got my harness on and then had to fight off this spotty youth who kept trying to fasten a dinghy pack to the clips.

[Brian Abraham]

From the Australian War Memorial. Seems to indicate that you would be suspended from the shoulders.

http://cas.awm.gov.au/screen_img/REL24039

In the early days of sport parachuting we used the American B-4 harness and main chute, as used in American fighter aircraft of the day. The reserve was stomach mounted and deployment meant you were suspended from somewhere twix navel and nipple.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/zz.jpg

[ancientaviator62]

Looks very like the harness and 'chutes we carried in the Herc tanker. We also carried 'quick don' (!) immersion suits. I could never get my head around the likely scenario for using the 'chutes'.

[Tankertrashnav]

Rather like that escape slide thingy built in to the VC10 tankers which was promptly abandoned, as far as I am aware. The idea that you could put an immersion suit, harness and parachute on in an emergency requiring an abandonment is totally bonkers.

[VX275]

Were you suspended by the shoulders in this harness? I think a better way of looking at it is to consider a horse in harness moving a carriage, the load is through the horse's shoulders onto the collar. Therefore the horse could be said to push the carriage instead of pulling it. Likewise with the parachute harness, its the leg straps forming a seat that supports the body, the shoulder straps are like the carriage shafts, they just transfer the load.

[Capot]

As paratroops with the older type parachute (ie 1963-ish) we were taught that if we were mistakenly dropped into water to get rid of the equipment fast and then sit in the harness, with all our weight supported on our bottoms by moving the straps until they were under the thighs.

Then we were to release the harness fastener box (can't remember what it was called) well before hitting the water, so that we could simply drop out of the harness and swim clear of the canopy when we hit the water, before being drowned by the said canopy. We would then sink like a stone, of course, but that's another matter.

The PTIs explained, very carefully, the importance of being firmly sat in the harness before hitting the release box, and of waiting until we were in the water before dropping out of the harness. "Don't let go until yer balls are wet".

We practised the drill in the hangar but never in real life.

[Four Types]

Whilst boring around over the N Sea in a Shackleton I was down the back having just fed the crew. BORED!....so I decided to time myself in putting on my harness, PSP and parachute....keen as mustard in them days. I got my harness bag ready.....3,2,1, Hack. Arms flapping like bees wings I got the harness on, sat on the PSP and clipped that on then finally hooked the parachute D rings onto the chest. Once the ensemble was complete I only had to make it to the rear door. As I stumbled rearwards I happened to clip the foot of an aged AE (J*m M**ney!) who was asleep in the port beam seat. This woke him up and his first sight was of me heading to the rear door at speed in my 'escape' kit!........the "WTF!!!":eek: look on his face was a picture! Happy days

[ancientaviator62]

Tankertrash,
the same mindset that had the HDU panel mounted above the Nav for him to operate. It would have been far more sensible to mount it on the HDU frame for the ALM to operate. But because the 'spare' Nav on the Victor operated the panel so that is what the Herc was given .

[Pontius Navigator]

....keen as mustard in them days. I got my harness bag ready.....

clip the foot of an aged AE (J*m M**ney!) who was asleep in the port beam seat. This woke him up

Wow you must have been young to consider JM young :} Anyway he was always like that.

[Wensleydale]

aged AE (J*m M**ney!) who was asleep in the port beam seat


At least he wasn't playing his bagpipe chanters - that would be a real emergency!

[oldmansquipper]

I recall the hooks pull out on canopy inflation.

I used this harness arrangement many times as pax in 115 Sqn Varsitys out of Tangmere (I was ATC) The chute was stored in a bin near (ish) your seat. The idea was that when the wings fell off - you got up...walked (no running inside the aircraft lad!!!) to the bin where YOUR chute was took it out of the bin and clipped it on. (1 clip would be enough - 2 was better) You then walked to the nearest exit point where a crew member would assist your escape

Yea, right!

:uhoh:

Again - If you are looking for examples/info try:

Dr Graham Rood at FAST Museum
Del Hall at Survival Equipment Services (SES)
or Maybe Paul C Williams at Martin Baker Chalgrove (who has recently been re-furbing harnesses) for a Bomber Command tribute group.

[Fareastdriver]

In the book 'The Fall of Fortresses' written by a Bombardier of the Eighth Air Force he decribes how his captain flew them and their B17 over to an RAF base and picked up a complete set of British harnesses and parachutes. This was because the Americans used a back chute that had to be strapped on before baling out.

Probably cost them a box of nylon stockings.

[Wensleydale]

In the book 'The Fall of Fortresses' written by a Bombardier of the Eighth Air
Force he decribes how his captain flew them and their B17 over to an RAF base
and picked up a complete set of British harnesses and parachutes. This was
because the Americans used a back chute that had to be strapped on before baling
out.

467 Sqn RAAF at Waddington in 1944 used to "borrow" .50 caliber guns and ammunition from visiting USAAF aircraft to use in a Lancaster "undergun" experiment. Perhaps this wa an example of a trade?