Nav Planning Tools - Old Style

[CoffmanStarter]

Clearing out the loft today I found an old Nav Planning Template I'd scrounged back in the 70's. I Never got to use it at 360 Kts let alone 540 Kts ... in fact I just wanted a "neat" way of drawing Heading & Height Boxes for 90 Kts on the Chipmunk !

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/NavPlotter.jpg

I guess these days the need to mark-up fablon covered Topo Maps with chinagraph pencil has long been replaced by PC based planning tools :(

Just covering the bl**dy map, wrinkle free, in fablon was an art in it's self !

That said ... outside the standard Douglas Protractor, Perspex Nav Rule and the Dalton Wiz Wheel ... did anyone use other official/unofficial nav planning tools pre the computer age ?

I did hear a "story" once of an F4 Nav who could plot with a Mars Bar and chinagraph on his knee boards !

Might make an interesting thread ...

Best ...

Coff.

[dagama]

Yea, and quite unofficially. A piece of string with 3.5 nms per minute markers for a 1/4 mil chart. About 2.5 hrs long! Threw it on the chart, fixed one end to the TAP and 'rubberbanded' it to the POD for the length of sortie (usually 1.5 hrs). By now you will have guessed the ac.

Worked very well in the UK flying at 210 IAS, adjusted for W/V to fly 210 G/S. I shudder to think what the BOI would have said - illegal use of parcel string. Oh hum!

[Onceapilot]

That planning template was a godsend, must have been designed by someone who actually knew about the job!
String! Just decide the scale and you can do so much! Avoid stretchy string though!

OAP

[ZH875]

Was Stretchy string used by aircrew when the flying program was written on an elastic band?

[ricardian]

From an earlier discussing on pprune (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/370015-buying-planning-tools-rulers-etc.html)

[iRaven]

The only one for Fast Jet jockeys has to be the "Brady Rule" designed and made by Roger Brady (ex Flt Lt). This got many a mate through TWU at Brawdy, Chivenor and Valley before being invaluable on the following OCU and Front Line.

:ok:

[Old-Duffer]

A couple of years ago, I was helping a mate write a presentation for a speech he was to give. He produced his fablon covered map of the 5th Division of Sarawak, Borneo and the whole of Sabah and Brunei. Apart from the coastal area and some well known settlements or spot heights - Batu Lawi for example at 6600 feet amsl - the map was mostly blank.

Lines had been drawn on the map between many of the more frequently visited LZs. Along each line was written just three sets of figures. These recorded heading out, heading back and time to run at 90 knots: nothing else! With experience, the more enterprising marked on the fablon, things like visible river bends, prominent trees - there were millions of others - and anything else which would act as a route check. Perhaps the most important was the line of the Indonesian border.

No templates for plotting or for anything else - great fun when you're 21 but the excitement quickly wears thin when one accepts one's own mortality!!

Old Duffer

[Fareastdriver]

On the same vein as Old Duffer. In Borneo if you were flying from one area marked 'Relief Data Incomplete' to another marked 'Relief Data Incomplete' for the first time the trick was to do a 360 degree turn half way there.

Then you knew what the scenery should look like coming back.

[Geehovah]

I used mine recently but not much use for a turning circle nowadays. Apart from the archaic PPL tests Sky Demon makes it just a tad old school.

[airpolice]

I have a Brady but don't use it much. Is there an equivalent for 90Kts / 120Kts that I might use for the PA28/C172?

[alisoncc]

An addition to the nav planning tools images

http://users.on.net/%7Ealisoncc/Douglas.jpg

And it's not even worn out yet.

[CoffmanStarter]

Keep it coming chaps ... the more unofficial the planning aid the better :ok:

AirPolice ... I've just clocked that a "rogerbrady" is a PPRuNer ... or was in 2004 ... It would seem there is a low speed version. I haven't tried the eMail address mentioned. The Web URL appears to be defunct :(

Brady Rulers (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/137219-brady-rule.html)

Cheers ...

Coff.

[Lima Juliet]

Coff

Try the e-mail at the end of this thread...

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/360586-brady-jet-rule-mk3.html

[Arm out the window]

The string thing was an absolute winner for formation split tac navs in RAAF helicopter days.

You'd mark your string (non-stretchy, of course) in nil-wind minutes at 90 kts (using 1.8km = 1nm) and from then on the exercise area was your oyster - pick a split and an RV point, then lay out the string in whatever squiggly path took your fancy, marking the minutes out on the route with chinagraph ('Contact' covered map - I guess that's the same as what you blokes call fablon?).

Then, keeping the start and end points of the string in place, move it to make another route of exactly the same length - easy to see the crossing points / conflicts, if any, and very very simple to work back from a time-on-target.

As good as a computer any time, if not better than, I reckon.

[orca]

Outstretched hand, little finger tip to thumb is about 8 and three quarter inches.

Which is 60 nm on a half mil or 120 on an enroute...times by ten, call it a bingo.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks LJ ... I'll drop the Master a line and see if he'd like to join the thread :ok:

Cheers ...

Coff.

[Motleycallsign]

Thumb width = 3/4 inch approx.
Tip of thumb to first knuckle 1.5 inch approx.
Both worked quite well on a 50:000 @90kts

[Wrathmonk]

call it a bingo

or flame out if in a Jag :E

[PlasticCabDriver]

Orca, you must have big hands, that was 50nm for me!

[Genstabler]

I see a possible commercial opportunity here for a bloke like me on the breadline.
if I cut a number of lengths of string (non-stretchy of course) and mark each of them up for appropriate speeds and map scales, would you blokes buy them from me? I could attach a bunch of different scaled strings to a single handle for convenience. Then the blokes in the sandpits could also use it as a fly swat. I am being serious. Honest.

[airpolice]

Are you able to give us a rough cost at this time, or is that as long as a piece of....


I'll get me coat.

[airpolice]

Roger has been in touch, and it seems we may still be able to get this excellent piece of kit.

The power of pprune!

[CoffmanStarter]

Well played Airpolice ... I sent him an eMail this morning to try and encourage an appearance :ok:

[Halton Brat]

If a mere yottie may enter the fray, one of the most useful bits of nav kit on my boat has always been a Douglas protractor with a yard of string attached to the centre point. Very useful for a quick course to steer when things are becoming emotional.

HB

[airsound]

http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKitRaise you, alisoncc.... This one is a bit careworn, but the case does have the instructions on it, should you forget how to use it.


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j134/airsound/NavKit/Protractor2.jpg

[IMG]http://www.pprune.org/http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j134/airsound/NavKit/Protractor2.jpghttp://www.pprune.org/<div style=&quot;width:480px;text-align:right;&quot;><embed width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;360&quot; src=&quot;<a href=http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf&quot; target=_blank>http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf&quot;</a> flashvars=&quot;rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed79.photobucket.com%2Falb ums%2Fj134%2Fairsound%2FNavKit%2Ffeed.rss&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; wmode=&quot;transparent&quot; /><a href=&quot;javascript<b></b>:void(0);&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;<a href=http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif&quot; target=_blank>Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket</a> style=&quot;border:none;&quot; /></a><a href=&quot;<a href=http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit&quot; target=_blank>http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit&quot;</a> target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;<a href=http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif&quot; target=_blank>Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket</a> style=&quot;border:none;&quot; alt=&quot;airsound's NavKit album on Photobucket&quot; /></a></div>http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKithttp://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit


http://www.pprune.org/<div style=&quot;width:480px;text-align:right;&quot;><embed width=&quot;480&quot; height=&quot;360&quot; src=&quot;<a href=http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf&quot; target=_blank>http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf&quot;</a> flashvars=&quot;rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed79.photobucket.com%2Falb ums%2Fj134%2Fairsound%2FNavKit%2Ffeed.rss&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; wmode=&quot;transparent&quot; /><a href=&quot;javascript<b></b>:void(0);&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;<a href=http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif&quot; target=_blank>Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket</a> style=&quot;border:none;&quot; /></a><a href=&quot;<a href=http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit&quot; target=_blank>http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit&quot;</a> target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;<a href=http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif&quot; target=_blank>Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket</a> style=&quot;border:none;&quot; alt=&quot;airsound's NavKit album on Photobucket&quot; /></a></div>http://s79.beta.photobucket.com/user/airsound/library/NavKit

[ICM]

My Douglas protractor caused a mild stir amongst my USAF Nav colleagues when I turned up with it back in 1970. I had a few sent over from the UK and spread them around and I know that one later did sterling service in AC-130s at nights over the Ho Chi Minh Trail. I can't recall the details but I was told that it proved ideal for the task in hand. (And I never really got the hang of using the USAF protractor for astro plotting and consistently did that RAF-style.)

[CoffmanStarter]

Airsound ...

I lost my cardboard sleeve for my Douglas a long time ago ... but it still sits proudly in my DIY Tool Bag having found it very useful for drawing cut lines for tiles and flooring etc ! :ok:

Nice to see a fellow Mac Man :ok:

Best ...

Coff.

[CoffmanStarter]

All ...

Like Airpolice ... Rogerbrady has made contact with me ... He hopes to join the thread later this week :ok:

Best regards ...

Coff.

[Arm out the window]

if I cut a number of lengths of string (non-stretchy of course) and mark each of them up for appropriate speeds and map scales, would you blokes buy them from me?

Given the ease of laying the string alongside the latitude scale of the map and marking it with your chinagraph, you may not find too many starters ... still, we live in an era where instant gratification is king, so perhaps you'll sell a million! Good luck.


Talking about other nav gear, though, I still have my Naviders http://jglen1111.net/ebay/weems_1.jpg

Two quick pinpoints vs time > groundspeed > set speed and get time intervals from there, too easy!

[airpolice]

Made in Germany.........................

[Clockwork Mouse]

Wouldn't want to put in my trousers pocket though.

[Arm out the window]

They came in a little hard case that stopped the pointy bits doing any damage. Not something you'd want flying around the cockpit in a prang though!

[CoffmanStarter]

Never give the Nav a sharp object to play with :=

[ExAscoteer]

Never give the Nav a sharp object to play with

Au contraire.

Giving them things like that to play with keeps them busy / quiet / out of your hair.

[Pontius]

if I cut a number of lengths of string (non-stretchy of course) and mark each of them up for appropriate speeds and map scales, would you blokes buy them from me?

Cue Monty Python and the stringettes sketch :)

String (http://www.montypython.net/scripts/string.php)

[CoffmanStarter]

I don't suppose these get issued/used in todays world ? IIRC there was a Douglas Protractor printed around the edge of the card's reverse side ... anyway ... it was far simpler to use Heading, Height, Whatever Boxes drawn directly on to your map.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/PilotNavLog.jpg

[T-21]

Is it possible to obtain an ex RAF Navigators instruments box ,about one foot square grey coloured ? New or second hand.

[rogerbrady]

Hi there! I still have some half mil MK-4s and quarter mil MK-1s if anyone wants them. They are still 30 euros. You need to send me your postal address by email at [email protected] with your requirements. Thinking of a GA version, half mil, slow speed with inches and cm scales for general purpose charts but retaining the compass rose as it is. Input welcome. Roger.

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks for joining the thread Roger :ok:

Any chance you could put up a pic ?

Best ...

Coff.

[ExMilRedundancy]

Could someone post a picture of the Hardy Rule please?

[Snapdragon]

When I was a co on 24 Sqn we were on a Fincastle trip to Australia(Edinburgh field). Each morning, to the disgust of the Nav the captain would draw the days route on a small inflatable globe which would be positioned on the centre of the coaming to give us an idea of where we were going!! Used to amuse the pax, they thought we were really using it!!!:}

[ShyTorque]

Never give the Nav a sharp object to play with

That's why they get issued with a blunt object who sits up front.

[airpolice]

Shurley shum mishtake, all the Blunties are at the rear......

[big v]

...................obvious to a PR9 Navigator...................

[airpolice]

Brady Rule dot Com (http://www.bradyrule.com)

That seems to be the best place to get in touch with Roger.

There is even a photograph for anyone who wonders what this is all about.

[Willard Whyte]

Each morning, to the disgust of the Nav the captain would draw the days route on a small inflatable globe which would be positioned on the centre of the coaming to give us an idea of where we were going!!I had a pencil sharpener in the shape of a globe, it sufficed perfectly well. Rumours that my in-flight diet of chicken wings was in some way related to my navigation technique were grossly exaggerated. I only used to 'read the bones' during STARs and NDB approaches.

I also managed to pritt-stick a, somewhat reduced, photocopy of a chart on the back of a packet of Marlboro, with the flight plan on the front.

On one occasion doing PTS many a year ago both the Co and I had forgotten our OS map of the Weston-On-The Green DZ. Thankfully the chaps in the Para office at Brize had no objection to us borrowing the rather dog-eared one on their wall. T'was all most satisfactory until the next day when OC 47 took his turn at doing PTS. My how he saw the funny side.

[CoffmanStarter]

I once was told by a former Meteor pilot, Arthur Standen (know to all as Uncle Arthur) ... sadly no longer with us ... that in the late 40's early 50's the CO of 500 Squadron used a rather unique approach to navigation. Apparently the entire 500 Squadron were to decamp from RAF West Malling for Summer Camp at RAF Luqa. In those days National/Euro Airtraffic Control was a complexity/nuisance yet to come. Apparently the CO walked in to the Transit Briefing on the day of departure and produced a map torn out his children's school atlas ... he proceeded to draw a rough straight line track to Malta via Gib ... and said "Get airborne everybody then formate/follow me" ... off they went !