radio ham saves US plane

[riverrock83]

BBC News - County Tyrone radio ham saves US plane after contact lost (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-20337368)
Tyrone News, Tyrone Sport, your local newspaper - Benny prevents airline disaster – The Ulster Herald (http://ulsterherald.com/2012/11/15/benny-prevents-airline-disaster/)

So the questions - will the CAA (or is that FAA?) prosecute for unauthorised broadcast on airband? The article doesn't say where this happened but presumably it was it state side (which would maybe make more sense as there weren't high winds in Castlederg!).
Would you trust a Ham operator in his shed?
Were there no other planes around that would have been better relays?
Why wasn't the aircraft transmitting on guard (and so why did no one else hear their call).
Did this plane not have satellite phone as a backup?
Why has this only been picked up by Northern Irish press (as far as I can google)?

[DaveReidUK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-dczqDBlU

[TWT]

Dublin to Boston

"I heard two people talking about Hurricane Sandy and that's what made me stay on the Pacific frequency and I heard the mayday call," Mr Young said.

[DX Wombat]

Would you trust a Ham operator in his shed?
There speaks someone who has not the faintest idea of what is required to become a licenced Amateur Radio Operator in the UK (and elsewhere.) :* Under normal circumstances OFCOM could revoke his licence for communicating by radio with the crew of an aircraft but as the circumstances are rather different they may take a different view.
Why wasn't the aircraft transmitting on guard From personal experience, most likely because it was blocked by a bunch of unprofessional idiots too cowardly to identify themselves, screeching "You're on guard" every time that frequency was tried. :mad:
In a difficult situation I was eventually helped by a member of the crew of an Emirates Airbus who were at 37,000' over continental Europe and I remain forever grateful to that person.

[SOPS]

Well said DX. The other day I was asked by ATC to call another aircraft on 121.5. I said "XYZ 123 this ABC 456 on 121.5"....and before any answer could come backsome prat was yelling at me 'On Guard!!!!"

what is it with these people??

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

It's long, long ago but I seem to recall that my New Zealand Amateur Radio Licence permitted me to use any frequency in time of emergency but my UK Licence certainly does not give the same authority.

[Airbubba]

Why has this only been picked up by Northern Irish press (as far as I can google)?

Maybe it is because United doesn't normally fly Dublin to Boston?

Or, perhaps it was a reroute for the storm?

Here's another article with a 'log sheet' in one of the pictures:

Derg man 'saves US flight' from Sandy - UTV Live News (http://www.u.tv/News/Derg-man-saves-US-flight-from-Sandy/aabfa496-a76c-42b3-84ce-d45488b90ed6)

Looks like one of the notations on the log sheet is 'AA 720 - mayday- Boston INT'. Not sure this makes sense, isn't AA 720 DFW-LGA?

Or, was it yet another reroute for weather and they came up on the HF in the B-737-800 to chat with Benny in the UK? :confused:

LGA was underwater that day, a reroute to JFK would make sense but through someone in Northern Ireland?

The story might be largely true and some of the facts were garbled in the reporting. I've done crossings in recent years with satcomm inop due to MEL or someone forgot to send the renewed FCC license to the right place.

After a careful review of the evidence, I hereby nominate Benny Young for this year's ALPA Tim Martins Lifesaving Award. :ok:

[MarcK]

So the questions - will the CAA (or is that FAA?) prosecute for unauthorised broadcast on airband? The article doesn't say where this happened but presumably it was it state side (which would maybe make more sense as there weren't high winds in Castlederg!).

From the context, it sounds like this exchange happened on HF. It's not uncommon that a distant station will get better reception than a close station. It's also not clear how he contacted the airport. Possibly by telephone. I'm guessing VHF wasn't working too well over the Atlantic.

It's also not uncommon for hams to come together in an emergency, and again, sometimes the better contact is not nearby.

Further information on HF frequencies:
Panama-Pacific Net, covers the Carribean, 8143 KHz, used by sailors and land stations to communicate status, etc.

New York ARINC: 8906 KHz, 8825 KHz (North Atlantic), 8846 KHz, 8918 KHz (Carribean), 8933 KHz.

If you have a general coverage receiver you can easily move between those frequencies, as they are on the same band. Non-channelized Aircraft radios can move to the marine frequencies if necessary.

[grounded27]

Radio transmissions in the USA are supposed to be governed by the FCC. Point, as the OP posted the operator "saved the plane". Question, did the operator hold a FCC liscence? They are easy to obtain. 20 years ago it was a common requirement for an A&P though antiquated as are the laws in the EU, now to my understanding I operate on HF,VHF etc under the airlines operating cert.

Why kill the messenger?

Now abuse of this authority can be followed up on

[Pink Fairy]

Not sure this chap is too concerned about any regulations, whether on amateur bands or anywhere else.
He holds a foundation licence, allowing just 10watts, yet there is a 1.2kw Yaesu amplifier glowing away in the background.

[DX Wombat]

He holds a foundation licence, allowing just 10watts, yet there is a 1.2kw Yaesu amplifier glowing away in the background. Silly man; now OFCOM has another reason for relieving him of his equipment - unless he shares the shack with a suitably qualified person who owns any offending items present. I have just three radios, a Yaesu 857 and FT60E and an ICOM as a back up for when I'm flying. All of them, with their antennae, fall within the restrictions of my licences (OFCOM and CAA). It simply isn't worth losing your equipment just because you want to use higher power - do it the sensible way - get your Intermediate and, if you wish, Advanced Licences.

[sodapop]

YouTube (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DyR0lWICH3rY&gl=IT)


The German Coast Guard is also ready to help

[radeng]

The International Radio Regulations (which are a Treaty in international law) lay down that

>4.9 No provision of these Regulations prevents the use by a station in distress, or by a station providing assistance to it, of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to attract attention, make known the condition and location of the station in distress, and obtain or provide assistance.<

A large amount of RR32 concerns distress traffic in the maritime bands, and by implication, some of it applies to aeronautical frequencies.

There is no distinct provision that a station of any service receiving a distress call HAS to act upon it, but the implication is that under the circumstances of a distress call being received and no station in the appropriate service responding, then there is an obligation to act. And, if need be, to use more power and different frequencies to those permitted in the licence.


So it is definite that the action was legal in terms of the radio regulations..

grounded 27. Being in Northern Ireland, it's nothing to do with the FCC. Nor even CAA, being purely an UK Ofcom matter. (There's a Swiss Ofcom, too, to complicate matters!)

A similar situation happened during the East Coast floods of 1953 when GKZ, Humber Radio was flooded out, and G3ELZ answered Mayday calls from ships, passing messages on to the lifeboats and the coastguard.

[DX Wombat]

Thank you Radeng. :ok:

[grounded27]

grounded 27. Being in Northern Ireland, it's nothing to do with the FCC. Nor even CAA, being purely an UK Ofcom matter.

My mistake, should have read the article a little better, I saw FAA/Boston/Sandy and made the wrong assumption.

[jimclearsky]

Dx Wombat,

You should be relieved of your own equipment this man has talent and the expertise to save a plane without comm.In the sky without comm real decisions must be made -quoting OFFCOM regulations won't save ur ass in a moment of peril good men are brave and in a moment of peril act to save each other with courage and selflessness.This man saved lives and put himself on the line this is to be commended let us salute this brave hero

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

jimclearsky..... any chance of that in English please?

[Airbubba]

Checking a little more, the AA 720 on the pictured log sheet was cancelled on October 29 (and 30 and 31) so it seems odd that it is listed with a 'mayday' notation.

I've never flown a B-738 but I would guess that most of them in domestic service don't have HF's installed.

Similarly, United's flights from Dublin to Newark and Dulles were cancelled on October 29 so it wasn't one of those that diverted to Boston. And, United doesn't fly DUB-BOS as far as I can tell. There is a UA 319 scribbled on the log sheet, it operates a BOS-DEN leg, did Denver get confused with Dublin in the reporting perhaps?

But UA 319 wouldn't be audible on VHF in the UK and again probably wouldn't use HF even as a backup on that route. Was Benny listening to internet scanner feeds over liveatc.net and passing info to ham emergency HF nets that were indeed operating on the U.S. East Coast that evening?

Anyway, UA 319 also didn't operate on October 29 as far as I can tell.

Somehow, this story as presented just doesn't add up. I feel that it is either a very misstated report of what actually happened or total BS that might fool an Irish reporter but not most of us here.


Would you trust a Ham operator in his shed?

There speaks someone who has not the faintest idea of what is required to become a licenced Amateur Radio Operator in the UK (and elsewhere.)

I got bored one weekend a while back and bought a couple of books by Gordon West WB6NOA with the questions and answers for the U.S. amateur radio Extra Class license test. I missed one question but otherwise easily passed as I recall. Seems like I had to take two or three written tests in succession, it's been a few years, I'm not sure. Reminded me of those 'FE Writtens' that the U.S. airlines used to list as a hiring requirement. Morse code was suddenly not required on the ham license after some rule change. After getting the Extra Class license and listening to the folks whining about the proverbial 'aches and pains' on 40 meters I kinda decided it wasn't for me.

[Loose rivets]

jim, I know what you mean. But then, I talk like that all the time.;)


In the early 60s, the Air Navigation Order was already a sizable series of documents. I bashed through them, and the very end found to my delight the words - well, more or less - saying:

'The captain of an aircraft may take any action he deems suitable for the purpose of saving life.'

At least in those days there was some common sense about. Let's hope there are a few good souls left who can see the value of initiative.

[11Fan]

:ok: My first thought when I saw the thread title sodapop

[DX Wombat]

HD, I shouldn't bother. He's probably had to translate from Gibberish to Irish to Level 1 English-for-FlightSimmers before posting which has left that unintelligible garbage. If he is trying to imply that I don't know what it is like to be airborne without a means of communication he's picked on the wrong person. I know only too well how it feels.
Sodapop - I tried to look at your link but for some reason it won't open. I'm not going to push it as in the past I have managed to open links only to find them harbouring a nasty virus.
what is it with these people??
SOPS, my experience was that they all spoke with an American accent and didn't bother to identify themselves as is required. Presumably they regard 121.5 as their personal chat frequency and don't like others using it for its real purpose. Either that, or they are completely ignorant of its real purpose and the fact that we are blessed with what I regard as the best and only dedicated D&D service which operates 24 hrs a day and is free to all, including the idiots, when in need.

[deptrai]

DX Wombat, the video is a true classic.

Setting: A new employee at a German Coastal Radio Station hears a ship transmitting "Mayday, mayday. We are sinking!"

He eventually replies, with a heavy German accent "Zis is the German Coast Guard.... Wat are you zinking about?"

A Berlitz (language school) commercial.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I would not agree that Ofcom could readily detect the use of high power as there are so many factors involved in the strength or a received signal. For example, the distance of the transmitter from the Ofcom receiving station (still at Baldock?), time of day, solar activity and type of antenna and length of transmission line in use.

A faulty Freeview box would have been found presumably as a result of a complaint of interference to Ofcom. You cannot compare this with the detection of particular power levels on HF R/T.

There is virtually no policing of the radio spectrum in the UK. Well, certainly not to the same levels as when I obtained my amateur licence. In those days stations inspections were fairly common several times per year. Now, it must be 20 years since a radio inspector visited my station.

[Bobbsy]

SLF but one whose job involved a lot of RF transmissions at various frequencies plus a fair bit of liaison with OFCOM....

I can confirm that OFCOM rarely, if ever, goes searching for violations of regulations unless there has been a complaint submitted about somebody causing interference.

[Pink Fairy]

I think that OFCOM would have noticed an unlicensed 1.2kW transmission, they're pretty capable at this sort of thing. They've got quite a nice pile of kit for spotting troubling / unauthorised transmissions, and have statutory powers and duties in this line. An unlicensed 1.2kW transmission (which is quite a BIG signal after all) would certainly raise eyebrows on even the most casual of official observers. Is it possible that your information about his license is wrong?

Sadly that is not the case, Ofcom has amazing resources at their disposal via Baldock and a surpsingly large amount of remote sources , but they are not utilised for licence breaches within the amateur radio bands. And unless other 'paying' spectrum users, military and emergency services complain, Ofcom will rarely act.

The number of 'novice' radio amateurs breaking their licence conditions by exceeding their maximum power output is huge, many using 100w, some 1kw, a few are using even more than that.

Where-as many countries have frequency restrictions on their novice radio amateurs, in the hope they will progress through the licence structure, the U.K. elected for power restrictions which cannot realistically be enforced, and these novices have no reason to ever progress, they can do whatever they wish without any fear of licence revocation.

[Pink Fairy]

I think that OFCOM would have noticed an unlicensed 1.2kW transmission, they're pretty capable at this sort of thing. They've got quite a nice pile of kit for spotting troubling / unauthorised transmissions, and have statutory powers and duties in this line. An unlicensed 1.2kW transmission (which is quite a BIG signal after all) would certainly raise eyebrows on even the most casual of official observers. Is it possible that your information about his license is wrong?Sadly that is not the case. Ofcom, with amazing resources at Baldock and many remote monitoring devices, rarely acts in these matters unless paying spectrum users, military and emergency services complain. It is not the good old days of rigorous spectrum enforcement as we had with the GPO.

Day in and day out, many novice radio amateurs in the UK breach their licence conditions by varying magnitudes, a large number using 100w transceivers at their full power, a small number using external amplifiers of in excess of 1kw output, the maximum for full licence holders is 400w in the U.K.

Many countries place easily enforceable frequency use restrictions on their novices, in the hope these novices will progress through the license structure, where-as the U.K. chose to have power restrictions that cannot realistically be enforced. The majority of novice radio amateurs in the U.K. know they can effectively do whatever they want without any chance of license revocation.

The gentleman in this case is a novice (foundation licence holder), he has an MI3 callsign, and a restriction of 10w.

[FullOppositeRudder]

I hesitate to venture onto this particular forum, because in the strictest sense I don't qualify to do so.

However, as a radio amateur, I've followed this thread with considerable interest. I don't think there is sufficient specific information on the frequencies used in this event to make an accurate call as to whether regulations were broken or not.

If the communications were on a frequency outside of the designated amateur allocations then it becomes interesting, since in Australia anyway a person is not permitted to be in possession of a transmitter which can operate on frequencies other that those for which the operator is licensed. More specifically (and realistically) it is not legal for a licensed amateur to possess an (amateur) transmitter capable of transmitting outside of the designated amateur band allocations, unless of course he is so licensed to own and operate that equipment. It gets messy.

If this event took place outside of the designated amateur allocations and it comes to the notice of the licensing authorities (as it almost certainly has), then I would expect that a courtesy call to the station owner would be made and certain technical matters discussed and checked.

As a complete aside, I once had a very interesting and unusual AR contact with a licensed amateur who was aboard a commercial flight and who was at that time a guest in the cockpit of the aircraft and who used the aircraft HF equipment to go onto the 20 metre amateur band. It was a long time ago, and obviously he had friends in high places. It would never happen today.

FOR (now QRT)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<in Australia anyway a person is not permitted to be in possession of a transmitter which can operate on frequencies other that those for which the operator is licensed. >>

Eminently sensible. In the UK anyone can buy off the shelf transmitting equipment for various bands without any qualifications. This led to an interesting incident many years ago at a major airport when a kid with an airband transceiver fancied himself as an air traffic controller and dished out a few instructions. 'nuff said.

[DX Wombat]

HD, I think that may have changed a little, certainly both my Yaesu 857 and FT60, both bought new in the UK, are receive only on the airband frequencies but as both are used for the most part for my RAYNET (http://www.raynet-uk.net/) activities that isn't a problem. The ICOM, which is older, can both receive and transmit which is why I have it for in-flight back up.

[Airbubba]

Anybody still here from United? Did this make the news on the union forum or the company ops newsletter?

Can any of you radio experts come up with a scenario that matches the details as reported? It sure sounds like BS to me as a pilot. :=

Being an American, if I thought I could 'save hundreds of lives' I'd do it and let the geniuses here and elsewhere decide later if it was legal. :)

Here's a thread on another forum that is skeptical of the event as reported:

Ham Radio operator saves a United flight ? | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/ham-radio-operator-saves-a-united-flight/)

Jetscan1's second post seems to closely echo my findings here about the pictured log sheet and cancelled flights.

Benny's ham license listing is here: MI3JQD - Callsign Lookup by QRZ.COM (http://www.qrz.com/db/MI3JQD/)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

DX Wombat.. But if you visit a dedicated pilot shop you can buy an airband trransceiver without too much difficulty. I got as far as "checkout" with several dealers and there was no suggestion that I needed a licence.. I'd be glad to know that I am wrong.

[DX Wombat]

HD, Mine didn't come from a Pilot shop but from ML&S which is a dedicated Ham Radio shop and the ICOM from another pilot who no longer needed it. I'll try to contact ML&S and find out a bit more as they are usually very much on the ball when it comes to such matters.
Just had a look at his logbook entries on QRZ - most wierd. Many out of sequence, only two contact entries made with individual persons during the period when the hurricane was still a tropical storm and these before the date of the alleged incident.
I too, am beginning to hear squeaking.

http://www.mrjohnsons.co.uk/uploads/small/rats2.jpg

[Pink Fairy]

I wouldn't pay much attention to 'his' qrz logbook as only a small % use it, the entries could easily be those who have uploaded their qso's with him, therefore appear in his logbook.

I suspect the MI3 was the subject of a wind-up, rather than making it up, and that it took place on the amateur bands. Career foundation licence holders tend not to be the brightest lamps in the street, the exam is easily passed by young children. the M3 prefix was used up some years ago, and M6 has been issued since 2008 for foundation licnces. He has been stuck on the bottom rung of the ladder for a long time.

Failing that, just some mix up with a /AM operator on the amateur bands, they do exist but not in the numbers there used to be.

[As I See It]

As a complete aside, I once had a very interesting and unusual AR contact with a licensed amateur who was aboard a commercial flight and who was at that time a guest in the cockpit of the aircraft and who used the aircraft HF equipment to go onto the 20 metre amateur band. It was a long time ago, and obviously he had friends in high places. It would never happen today.


I've spoken to a number of Aeronautical Mobile stations, this Summer I worked an ex pat overhead Chile on his was to Dallas, he held a US and UK callsign, the latter having no provision for /AM, and there's a German chap I've spoken to a number of times who posts his flight schedule on Tw@tter so he can arrange scheds, usually 20m too ;)

In the UK it is not illegal to own amateur equipment capable of transmiting outside the amateur bands, it's only illegal to use it in such a manner, and as far as I can recall I've never heard of amateur equipment that can transmit on VHF airband, HF only, however with the influx of Chinese tat on ebay that may not be the case any longer :eek:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

From the Radio Society of Great Britain web site:

<<The RSGB regrets that the story reported last week concerning an amateur assisting an American aircraft diversion appears to be unfounded. The item was broadcast by GB2RS in good faith on the basis of reports from BBC news and other media organisations.>>

[StainesFS]

I raised this with the BBC. Somewhat to my surprise, they replied. They have added an update at the start of the article which reads:

Update 27 November 2012: Further checks have shown United Airlines does not fly from Dublin to Boston. Irish and US aviation authorities also say they have no record of these events.
This information was put to Mr Young, who did not wish to comment.



It is a pity that they did not do this checking earlier but, fair play to them, at least they did it in the end.


SFS