Legalities of flying VFR during solar eclipse

[Steve888]

Had a thought this morning regarding the eclipse. Is there anything in the regs about flying during the eclipse when not night VFR or instrument rated?

For example, let's say I do not have a night VFR or instrument rating. I depart after first light and am in the air during the totality period of a solar eclipse. Am I no longer flying under the VFR and so should plan to land 10 minutes before totality, or is the fact that it is after the end of civil twilight mean it still counts as day?

For simplicity, ignore any weather requirements.

My guess is since visibility would reduce below VMC, you would need to fly under the IFR for the period of eclipse, and knowing when the eclipse is would be your own responsibility the same as knowing airspace requirements?

Anyone else care to weigh in? Obviously it's not a common occurence, but somewhat interesting regardless.

[Frank Arouet]

My guess is since visibility would reduce below VMC, you would need to fly under the IFR for the period of eclipse

It's generally dark at night time, but you can fly night VFR.

Ask CASA, (we're here to help). I would like to see their response.

[Steve888]

It's generally dark at night time, but you can fly night VFR.

But during a solar eclipse it's not "night" as far as the regs go.

[swh]

Is there anything in the regs about flying during the eclipse when not night VFR or instrument rated?

No, the regulations are about night flying, between evening civil twilight, and morning civil twilight.

I depart after first light and am in the air during the totality period of a solar eclipse. Am I no longer flying under the VFR and so should plan to land 10 minutes before totality, or is the fact that it is after the end of civil twilight mean it still counts as day?

It is a still a day flight, you are just flying under a shadow, like you would if you flew under a large aircraft. It does not go totally dark.

visibility would reduce below VMC

Visibility would remain unchanged, like walking from out in the sun to the shade of a tree. Of in you are in a high wing aircraft, in the shade of the wing.

[maehhh]

My guess is since visibility would reduce below VMC

Are u sure about that? The last time I saw a full eclipse was admittedly a couple of years ago however from what I remember it was still quite some daylight left.

If you go night VFR you have still to maintain VMC, hence the required visibility for VISUAL flight rules is even achievable at night, can't see what's the problem with visibility in case of an eclipse (by day) then?

maehhh

[DeRated]

Regardless of 'Regs' or your rating, if unprepared for total darkness and you're down amongst the weeds - not much fun!

I was 10,000' over Mount Gambier for the (1976 I think) eclipse and apart from the rim of light around the horizon - as dark as a moonless night.

Amazing watching that circle of darkness sweep across the land towards you, and then away after the few minutes.

One of aviation's best experiences.

[The Green Goblin]

This is what is wrong with aviation in this country.

People have nothing better to do than try and find a rule regarding flying during an eclipse (for when it happens every couple of decades).

If you're worried about it, take some responsibility for yourself and watch it from the ground.

If CASA get on the case they might have something ready for 2023 when the next one is scheduled. It'll be just what fort fumble would want though. Imagine all the field trips overseas and study tours they'd get out of it.

[topdrop]

See AIC
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/sup/a12-h31.pdf
During these two minutes, the light level will probably be equivalent to a late twilight and the horizon may be lost from sight. As the light level will drop rapidly, it will take time for eyes to adapt to the change.
Operationally, pilots and operators are still obliged to fulfill their obligations in relation to flight within the Visual Meteorological Conditions Rule set. Sitting on Clifton Beach during total portion of the eclipse, it was dark, no horizon, and to my mind, not VMC.

[SenZubEanS]

I was flying this morning at that time, but in Central Vic we didn't get the full eclipse so, not so much an issue I guess.

[Deaf]

Was flying during the 1976 one in Vic. Below us it was dark but could make out the ground/water features around Jamison. Clear to north and south (areas with only partial eclipse).

As mentioned much like being in shade.

[Aerozepplin]

I think you hit the nail on the head there GG. Wasn't much different to a very overcast day here, maybe not a good time to be weaving through a deep valley, but a pretty good time for some common sense.

[compressor stall]

Besides the pedantic nature of whether its really a cause for regulation, many replies to this thread has highlighted the continuing ignorance by many of the actual meaning of VMC, IMC, visibility, IFR and VFR. A trip to the definitions at the front of the regs might be in order. :}:}

And to follow on from swh's definition, civil twilight is defined as the sun's disc being no more than six degrees below the horizon.

They look good from the air, but are even better from 39,000 feet at M.80. Especially when you get 9mins23sec of totality. :8

[Aussie Bob]

The comment of interest prize goes to De Rated and the sensible reply prize goes to the Green Goblin. ...... yawn ..... yawn

[601]

Ask CASA, (we're here to help). I would like to see their response.

:=:E:bored::confused::eek::uhoh::hmm::rolleyes::{:zzz::oh::D :ok:

[Capt Claret]

Watching from landside, outside the Cairns domestic terminal, looking just south of False Cape one could see the mountain range and all the surrounds clearly. It definitely was dimmer but being my first eclipse experience, was no where near as dark as I was expecting, given all the media hoopla leading up to it.

Certainly from my vantage point, I wouldn't have assessed the light as being less than one would experience in dusk, just before evening civil twilight, or after morning civil twilight. Heavier cloud cover elsewhere may have made a significant difference.

[compressor stall]

The previous one from 39,000 feet.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/34597_425202701536_5412187_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/37540_425203201536_6932523_n.jpg

[Aussie Bob]

Sensational C. S.

Got rid of my yawns about this thread

[darkroomsource]

Not VMC...
I didn't realize that clouds and/or fog came with eclipses...

How do we fly VFR at night?

[Jabawocky]

Not many posters here apart from Stallie have done this obviously, so when I get time in the next day or so I will post some pics and video. Mine not so high up! The folk on the ground experienced more darkness, and cold. We compared photos and experiences with an amateur astronomer back at the motel over breakfast. Quite a difference.

I was surprised at how VMC like it was and I was right in the middle of it. It was like landing 10 minutes before last light, dark but you could see.

Another surprise was the lack of aircraft in the FNQ interior, maybe they all stayed near the coast.

[The Green Goblin]

I hope none of the aviation folk are the 5 in a 100 who have permanently damaged their eyes by looking directly at the eclipse.

I also can't believe this thread is still going!

[VH-XXX]

Wouldn't the total darkness only have been an issue if you were circling at the time around the "epicentre" for example overhead Cairns?

[Jabawocky]

NO

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/IMG_1314.jpg

As you can see, the iPhone takes a poor photo and this is during the middle of the full eclipse, so the rays of light around the edge appear as a complete sun dot, but as you can imagine it is normally a lot bigger than that.

you can see the shaddow in the sky and similar on the ground.

The horizon is very bright, and the reflected light from the lit horizon some 100-150km away is reflecting quite a bit back to us.

Quite unreal! :ok:

When I get some better ones off the camera and gopro I will see what there is to post that is worth it. Cameras of the ordinary variety may not do it justice. iPhones do not!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

On more than one occasion I have said to another pilot
'Visibility, 93 million miles - today - I can see the sun'.....

This, at Derbs, in the middle of the cyclone season.....
:ok:

[whatziznehm]

This is at 9,500 looking northwest towards the umbra during totality. A fair bit of light around.

http://i.imgur.com/1uKHm.jpg

[Crakanuthrtinny]

We tried asking CASA on the lead up to the eclipse and so did Approach here in Cairns. After 3 days we got a call stating that it would be classed as night Conditions, and approach must have been given the same news. I heard a lot of pilots being asked if they were current over the radio during the event. Regs or not that was the decision. :ok:

[Frank Arouet]

Oh, my my my! I never thought anyone would do that.

The answer is predictable however. Did anyone get a name?

[Lookleft]

So how do you record 2 minutes of night in your log book- 0.033 which will be an appendage to your hours until you log 0.067 night time! Does that mean the next time Halley's comet comes around then day hours must be recorded?

[Jabawocky]

After 3 days we got a call stating that it would be classed as night Conditions, and approach must have been given the same news.

Well they were WRONG.........but that is not unusual now is it. They just had no idea and took the conservative option.:rolleyes:

Believe me it was nothing like the IFR departures I have done at places in outback Queensland, and a lot better than 10min to last light arrivals.

[Deaf]

I hope none of the aviation folk are the 5 in a 100 who have permanently damaged their eyes by looking directly at the eclipse.


No worries looking directly at the eclipse/partial eclipse/full sun PROVIDED you are looking through something like the old CIG #14 filters.

In the 1976 eclipse various "eminent" professors etc said you can't look at the eclipse safely though any filters. A simple lie to avoid explaining the truth to the peasants. Just like global warming/(insert latest lie) "I'm Professor F (getting paid $10,000 pw to say) believe me the carbon tax is important to your (actually my) future"

[compressor stall]

I spent a lot of time working with several NASA folk prior to the 2010 eclipse and they remarked about the over the top warnings of the dangers of the eclipse back in 1976 in oz. They thought it was funny and even sent me copies of clippings from overseas media laughing at us. It's funny how other nations try to understand a country's psyche from small events like that.

[Roger Greendeck]

Stunned and amazed, particularly at CASA's advice.

The rules are very clear about what constitutes VMC and IMC and day or night is not part of it. Likewise daylight and darkness is well defined and eclipses don't figure in it.

This, however, is a perfect example of what one of my instructors taught me years ago 'now you have worked out the flight is legal, is it a good idea?' That's what captaincy is all about. If you think conditions will exceed your capability don't go.