What do retired Harrier pilots do for a job?

[The B Word]

Become a PCC of course...

Home (http://clive4leicspcc.com/home.html)

:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Is this another AP1358 'outrage' by an Air Officer?

0113. Occasions on which uniform is not to be worn:

a. On leave

b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.

c. Representing a third party e.g. part-time employment outside of working hours.
d. Functions where fancy dress is worn; the wearing of uniform of obsolete design which is clearly distinguishable from the pattern currently worn is, however, permitted.

e. Carnival processions and other occasions when the reputation or political impartiality of the Armed Forces might be brought into question (e.g. political meetings).

He's wearing his uniform on a Conservative Party sponsored website and also on his PDF 'flyer' Skill Set (http://clive4leicspcc.com/skills.html) and http://clive4leicspcc.com/Manifesto.pdf

:= Tsk, tsk, Sir Clive...

[iRaven]

Interesting "About Me" Bio - About Me (http://clive4leicspcc.com/about.html)

Four words before he says he was a pilot and further 2 words before he mentions Harrier - very relevant! :ugh:

As a front-line pilot who flew Harrier aircraft throughout my career, I participated in air operations over Belize, the Falklands, Iraq and the Balkans. I commanded RAF personnel at almost every rank in the RAF, serving as squadron leader commanding a Harrier flight, as a wing commander in charge of a front-line Harrier squadron, as a group captain commanding a base in Germany and, finally, as an air chief marshal (the highest rank in the Service) Commander-in-Chief of Air Command

Maybe he'll campaign to replace the Police Helicopter with a Harrier!

[dctyke]

I guess with such a rubbish pension he needs a job to make ends meet!

[Al R]

Raven,

Just having a nose for public sentiment? Harrier is still big news and much liked round these here parts.. :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

This harks back to the days when Chief Constables were a shoo in from the military. I hope they don't go for the snob value of having a knight as their PCC.

He is going to lead a team - who pays for the team? Where will he recruit them from - cronies for the Air Force?

To say we should vote would give someone we don't want to support a mandate that we don't want to give him.

Personnally I would have prefered to vote for "None of the Above" this allowing NOT to have a PCC, or at least to reject those who stand.

Please let us know how he gets on.

[FinelyChopped]

Any relative to Sir Vivian, I wonder?
Mind your language | From the Guardian | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/feb/14/newspaper-headlines-style-cliches)
The fox is a bilingually rude animal; the German male can offend in English (see above) and the English female of the species sounds like a German term for self-abuse.

[newt]

When will retired senior officers realise it is time to retire?

I could tell the old joke about the difference between a Harrier pilot and a Harrier but that would be deemed as thread creep!

Good luck to the people of Leicestershire if he gets the post!

[bubblesuk]

I live in Leicestershire, am I going to need luck if he gets the job then, should I consider a move?:uhoh:

[Captain Sand Dune]

What do retired Harrier pilots do for a job?
Go into full the time business of telling everyone that their an ex-Harrier pilot!!:E

[sisemen]

Mrs Ann Fuchs

At least we know what he'll be doing in his spare time :E

[orca]

Just to confirm:

We all expect to leave the military with valued skills and experience but this chap isn't expected to use them to show that he is the man for a job that above all should attract a candidate of honesty and integrity.

He makes clear he is retired but apparently falls under service regs for when he can and can't wear his uniform.

He mentions a fairly iconic aircraft flown by a well respected bunch (at least until us gash Navy types showed up) because he (not unreasonably) expects it to gain him traction in an area where both were popular and whose loss is keenly felt....but he shouldn't have because there's some form of snobbery being displayed.

Nope, sorry chaps, I think he's being more than reasonable.

[mr Q]

Is the toupee RAF issue ??

[Al R]

Just because he is retired shouldn't mean life stops and if he had seen me about retirement planning dctyke, maybe he wouldn't have to be supplementing his income?

He'll have an idea how a wintery and hacked off bobby will be thinking at most 04:30's and there will be some respect going the other way too I imagine. And he'll be able to join the dots when things need to be done.

I posted here about this the other week. You need to see the Labour candidate; "Chief Constable. I have called you before me because I'm really rather not not as happy as I might otherwise possibly need to be with the Force fitness test results".

http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Sarah-Russell1-231x300.png

(sorry, did I really just mention fitness tests?)

[STANDTO]

"I am already clear on one thing: together, we can reduce crime in Leicestershire and Rutland."

- because of course, coppers don't take a pride in their job, just sit around eating donuts and are completely oblivious to their basic duty of reducing crime, protecting the vulnerable and bringing offenders to justice.

If only it was that simple.

[SilsoeSid]

He'll have an idea how a wintery and hacked off bobby will be thinking at most 04:30's and there will be some respect going the other way too I imagine.

...or 'b'.

[Rigga]

No, no...I think he has really changed!
He said he has listened to other peoples views!

Cant be the same man...

[Pontius Navigator]

I will lead a re-energised team who will work with humility, integrity
and accountability to deliver for each and every resident.

Team player then. I guess he will remain a leader and not a worker. How much will this team cost as I presume it will be his deputy, financial advisor etc etc.

I really think we should have been given that No One option.

[ZH875]

When it comes to cutting the numbers of police on the front line, he will be a master at saying YES cut 20% and state it is just a capability gap that the criminals will not exploit.

[Pontius Navigator]

ZH, capability gap? That is so so yesterday. The last was capability holiday. Now there will be some new buzz word but as Sir Clive is also a yesterday's man he will still be having holidays.

[millerscourt]

What about two Jags Prescott?

I have no doubt ALL candidates give a CV to tell those bothering to vote what they have done in life. I see nothing wrong in that.

[occhips]

From me me me me me me Harrier me me's Bio

Experience of steering an organisation through change: I have been faced with the need for deep organizational (shafting) change during my RAF career, not least in my last appointment when I brought together 2 separate HQs (separately totaling some 3300 personnel), melding them into a single HQ of 2300 personnel without any reduction in necessary outputs. :ok:

And we all lived happily ever after!

[BOAC]

I don't believe it, said Victor -it's LOD THE PLOD.

[mike-wsm]

Dunno what Harrier pilots do but all the Canberra pilots I ever met run second-hand shops. Usually under fancy names like Art Gallery or Fine Antiques. Same difference.

[2Planks]

If he is elected I wonder which train he will have the Force on?

(PS As I am now out where did the infamous train to Glasgow get?)

[VinRouge]

I wonder If he will use his own version of leadership and get a significant percentage of his workforce to resign after an attrocious self-centred speech, like he did at lyneham back in 06/07?

[Jobza Guddun]

2Planks:-

It's still valiantly trying to get there. However, the terminus seems to change when the train gets close. What also doesn't help is occasionally the train has to stop because the driver hasn't spent enough time doing pointless repetitive shat.

I would batter my tongue with a steak tenderiser before voting for that man.

[Pontius Navigator]

With a field of 3, a Tory, and a knight, he may be a shoo in

Unless of course the centre of gravity is Leicester and different from what we might expect.

I suspect that the major population centres in Lincolnshire, like around the prison, may vote differently from the unspeakable in the rural areas.

[Agaricus bisporus]

He'll get to show us gash amateur civvies how to do it properly of course.

As a harrier pilot he knows all about policing, and once a policeman he'll know everything about everything so he's the perfect candidate. This is Nobel prize territory - the invention of perpetual motion in human form; producing infinite output from an original content of zero and with an unlimited amount of hot air as the by-product.

[NutLoose]

Perhaps if he needs a little hobby on his weekends off

Rare Hawker Siddeley Harrier P1127(RAF) Serial Number XV281, Harrier Jump Jet | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Hawker-Siddeley-Harrier-P1127-RAF-Serial-Number-XV281-Harrier-Jump-Jet-/321022415822?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item4abe6d53ce)

[GICASI]

I think LOD is a natural, inspirational leader who always left an outfit better than he found it. He has the uncanny knack of making people feel really good about themselves, their chain of command and their Service.

He would never let the occasional display of the human condition colour his judgement for the rest of his life and he would most certainly not make written mention of how a chap's wife contributed, or not, to Service life in formal appraisals.

I also believe that the BBC is a well-governed, well-led organisation and that its News division is scrupulously impartial, especially on the EU, the Euro and man-made global warming.

Don't have nightmares.

[Pontius Navigator]

:D:D:D. . .

[NutLoose]

Well as he is in my voting region tomorrow and I won't be voting for him.

Interesting combinations

Paired with his campaign agent you have

Loader Bowles

And paired with his media manager you get

Loader Fuchs

Reading some of his blurb about putting through cuts etc you have

Loader Cr*p

There seems to be better candidates

[Hueymeister]

I had the (mis)fortune to have to listen to his diatribe of utter twaddle back in 07. Apparently if I didn't like the train to Glasgow I should get off. He didn't mention if it would stop. Best of all, he banged on about the Typhoon to a room full of rotary dudes. Feat of comprehensive @rse. A number of people considered throwing themselves under his train. Tw@t. :*:ugh:

[HAS59]

I am just happy that this thoroughly unpleasant individual is no longer in the RAF. Why anyone would want to have him running anything is beyond me.

[CoffmanStarter]

Words on the loss of the Harrier ... not many "celebrated" I'll bet :(

Sir Clive Loader speaking at the Harrier closing day. - YouTube

[NutLoose]

Well I got my vote in today, you have a first and a second choice, he never made either slot on my voting slip.

[sisemen]

Given the predilections of VSOs to have skeletons rattling around in cupboards (channeling Harding, Petraeus etc etc) one wonders what will eventually come out about this individual.

[airpolice]

He claims to have flown the Harrier throughout his career.

I now understand where they get this notion of superiority. Mere mortals had to start on Grob/Bulldog then progress through the JP, Gnat/Hawk/Hunter route to the Harrier, but he's always been a Harrier Pilot.

Wow!

[teeteringhead]

You are mean ... poor chap will need a little extra dosh to eke out his paltry 4-star pension.....

Dunno what they get in Leicester & Rutland, but I believe the PCC here in Teeteringshire will be on about £75K ......

[Pontius Navigator]

TH, salary depends on the size of the force rather than area etc. Our force is about 1100 in one of the largest counties so the winner (?) will only get £65k. Good incentive to increase police numbers.

Now there's a thought. Instead of preserving jobs for the boys at the top, aka RAF plc, more boots on the ground could lead to a bigger load of dosh.

[millerscourt]

Sounds to me like a lot of failed Flt Lts about here:{

[Pontius Navigator]

MC, or perhaps not. Still only one result so far. Strange they are so slow as there can't be that many to count.

Choose My PCC | Election results (http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk/election-results)

[Bladdered]

Is that a barn growing out of the left side of his head.....I quite liked him and I think a bloke of his integrity and with his work ethic will represent the Counties most effectively in this role - has he won yet :)

[Pontius Navigator]

Bladdered, at the moment only Wiltshire is declared. While he was 'elected' with 62% of the vote, actually only 7.4% of the electorate actually selected him as their first choice.

Less than 1:10 is hardly a mandate.

Turnout in Leicestershire looks like 16% - similar to Wiltshire - with almost 20% in Rutland and 19% in Leicester.

[NutLoose]

Results not in yet see


Choose My PCC | Search results for: DE742SA - Leicestershire police force area. The elections have now taken place. Results have not yet been announced. (http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk/candidates/area/leicestershire?postcode=DE742SA)


Postcode BTW isn't Nutloose Folly, but East Mids Airport

[Union Jack]

Words on the loss of the Harrier ... not many "celebrated" I'll bet http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Fully agree, although I'm just happy to celebrate that the ACM, who mentioned the Harrier being involved in "a plethora of other operations", actually seems to know the correct meaning of "plethora" ...... or does he?:E

Jack

[teeteringhead]

You are mean ... poor chap will need a little extra dosh to eke out his paltry 4-star pension.....
.... having some spare time and a calculator available, thought I'd put some figures on that .....

4-Star salary, between £165 284 and £185 184, depending on "Scale Point" (excluding CDS who gets more: £238 123 to £252 698 actually)

4-Star pension, between 45.4% and 50% of salary, depending on years served.

Net result: 4-star pension between £75 038.94 and £92 592.00

[Red Line Entry]

Teeters,

But I'll bet that £92K is a lot less than the pension arrangements for any civvy who ran a business of circa 40,000 staff and a turnover of £4Bn!

[Willard Whyte]

Did he actually run it though, or did things just sort of happen?

The only sort of communication I ever saw coming from on high concerned themselves with edicts about MOSS, protecting information, fitness tests, etc.

[NutLoose]

Cock...... He got elected.

[peppermint_jam]

According to the website linked above, he won.

*beat me to it nutloose!

[Geehovah]

As someone who has known Clive for all his Air Force career, I wonder if anyone can ever satisfy the need for positive leadership in public/military service. A good bloke with a truly impossible task. Sad to see personal axes being "ground".

I wish him well because after this start, the public clearly don't care too much for the new role.

Back below the parapet.

[SRENNAPS]

Geehovah

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I never knew the chap, but I knew others that were up there with him and I doubt they would have had a bad word to say about him........especially in public!!!!

Good luck to him:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Standby for flaps on Copper's boots and Harriers for air surveillance tasks then!

:ok:

[NutLoose]

Am I being cynical, but isn't this all just another layer of bureaucracy adding yet another layer of pen pushing well paid busy bodies.

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, supposedly the PCC replaces the PA so in theory near cost neutral.

Like that excellent Poll tax it will be spung to best advantage by who ever spins best.

[chopd95]

PN spot on.
These were of course never another set of party political appointments, discuss.
Does it actually surprise anyone that a former CAS is a Conservative candidate ?

Astonished that the "turnout" was as high as it was

[NutLoose]

They should NOT be political

[SRENNAPS]

Nutloose I agree with you. Here is a copy of my reaction this morning:

And I thought the PCC elections was all about voting for something to do with the police, not voting for yet another representative of a political party……jobs for the boys!!!!! And they are only being paid £70,000 a year after approx a 7% vote to get them in power (quote BBC news). Well we can afford it in these tough times. They are aving a kin laugh! Friday morning rant over.

I just get annoyed at personal attacks at people on this website. It seems to be the norm these days. It is one thing to criticize a faceless establishment and it is one thing to have some banter against somebody who is known on the website. But it is another for certain posters to launch a personal attack on an individual.

Some of the comments on this thread are the kind of thing that I would expect to hear at a frustrated women’s coffee morning.

[Easy Street]

Does it actually surprise anyone that a former CAS is a Conservative candidate ?

Am I missing something here? Loader was the first CinC Air Command but never CAS.

[Pontius Navigator]

Easy Street, no. At one point he was promoted by the media as head of the air force. As the head of the air force the media picked this up as CAS.

Sloppy self-licking lollipop.

Did the good denizen's of Leicestershire think they were getting the most senior retired airman?

[Chainkicker]

Think he was more rotary, but I see Tony Hogg got the Devon & Cornwall job.

Presume he will be known as "Boss" now?

[orca]

In fairness to the media it is probably mystifying that CINC Air isn't the head of the RAF just as it must be that CINC Fleet isn't fishhead in chief...because with so many assets we need God knows how many 4 stars etc

...it's mystifying to me and I'm a fishhead with 'a fair amount of time with the crabs' under my belt.

[Pontius Navigator]

orca, we all knew where we were with 1st Lord and 1st Sea Lord, 2nd Sea Lord etc :)

I also suspect that someone's presumption that a posting after CinC Air would be CAS was also presumed by the media to have occurred.

Just a thought, more people voted for him than are in the whole of the RAF. I hope he is receptive to all of them.

[500N]

Was amazed to read that the turn out percentage was so low.

Hardly worth holding an election !

[Pontius Navigator]

500N, statistically it is expected that something less than 2% of all ballot papers will be accidentally spoilt. Over 2% and it can be considered deliberate action.

The number of spoilt ballot papers was between 2.5% and 4.5% which suggests that some of us did not agree with the election of PCC and others objected to the politicisation of police commissioners.

In my county we had 4 candidates. The two party candidates came 3rd and 4th. In other counties there were no independents as they had to bear the costs themselves - a £5000 deposit and admin costs iro £15000.

[TheWizard]

In fairness to the media it is probably mystifying that CINC Air isn't the head of the RAF just as it must be that CINC Fleet isn't fishhead in chief...because with so many assets we need God knows how many 4 stars etc

...it's mystifying to me and I'm a fishhead with 'a fair amount of time with the crabs' under my belt.


CINC AIR?? CINC Fleet?? What are they? (Note: not what 'were' they?) :}

Try these RAF - Senior Commanders (http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/seniorcommanders.cfm)
Senior Naval Staff | Royal Navy (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/About-the-Royal-Navy/Organisation/Senior-Naval-Staff)

[orca]

My utmost apologies (genuine ones this time - not the usual sarcastic variety) - I was probably told about this in the Top Level Messages or similar during either SDSR (when I was OOA) or during Ellamy (when I was OOA).

Either way, I was busy and I lost all interest in my career at about the same time!

More than happy to be corrected and glad that we have sorted out all the TORs for our airships. One assumes they run 4 Typhoon FE@R each?;)

[Pontius Navigator]

The Wizard, your first link shows WHO and not WHAT.

I think orca was a bit tongue in chief. I also think the real answer is that one it the political head and the other the operational one.

Sir Stephen is on the board whereas CINC Air is not Air Force Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Board)

Interestingly CINC Fleet is on the Admiralty Board Admiralty Board (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_Board)

[ShyTorque]

I'm a fishhead with 'a fair amount of time with the crabs' under my belt.

Can you still get that blue grey stuff to smear under your belt?

[NutLoose]

It still should never have been politicised, you now have police forces being controlled by political parties for their own agenda that will conflict with their purpose of a totally independant force.

[Pontius Navigator]

I wonder how many political PCC were elected by default, ie no credible Independent candidate. In Lincolnshire both Conservative and Labour fell at the first count leaving two independents to fight it out and that in very much a true blue county.

[TheWizard]

PN, I am afraid you are a bit out of the loop old chap.
There is no such post as CINC AIR anymore since ACM Bryant retired in March this year.


As for orca being "a bit tongue in chief", that is his business!! ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

The Wizard, thank you for that:

Air Command is commanded by the Chief of the Air Staff

which explains better the media confusion over who was chief of what.

And Freud has much to answer for, bit like Isaac Newton.

[teeteringhead]

And for completeness PN, the two 3-stars at High Wycombe both now sit on the Board, as Air Member for Operations and Air Member for Personnel and Capability.

Do keep up old boy....... ;)

[orca]

I would like to explain my failings in not keeping up (which I do not contest) because I am pretty sure that Sir Clive was DCINC and then went on to be CINC replacing (I think) a chap called French. Senior officer turn over, you understand, being a true highlight of my time at HW - which was in itself a career highlight.

Still - appears I'm not alone in my ignorance.

Yours aye,

orca.
Tongue In Chief.

[A2QFI]

The result might have been different if the 64,000 members of the RAF had been the voters!

[cuefaye]

A2QFI - Precisely!

[Pontius Navigator]

Now who's out of date? Rather fewer than that now :{

Fewer than 40,000

[cuefaye]

Same hymn sheet.

[NutLoose]

Well I did try, he never got mine.

[teeteringhead]

I am pretty sure that Sir Clive was DCINC and then went on to be CINC replacing (I think) a chap called French. ... exactly so. Sir Joe (French) was the last CinC Strike, and was succeeded by Sir Clive as the first CinC Air.

[cuefaye]

Lightweights, all