Who in the world is actually welcoming low-time pilots?

[Super D]

Good day,

I have a Canadian CPL-H with 5-years experience in the industry but only 250 hours total time. Maybe it's just bad luck, but it seems to me that the Canadian operators are not interested in hiring locals and supporting the industry by actively bringing up the next generation of pilots. So that brings me to my question - Can anyone tell me of any proactive companies in the rest of the world that are currently looking for (and hiring) low-time, hard-working, professional individuals such as myself? PIC or co-pilot work is fine; anything that can convince me that getting my license wasn't a hugely depressive mistake. :ugh:

Sarcastic remarks - don't bother replying.

:ok:

[paco]

Airborne used to have a reputation for doing just that, but maybe times have changed. I've always found it strange that companies make perfectly good people sit behind a desk while they "assess their character" when they could be doing all sorts of low level work as an entry into the industry. Northern Mountain were famous for doing that, as are many others still. A ridiculous waste of resources, then they moan when people move on.

Be prepared for the fact that hardly anyone in management in the aviation industry in general (not just helicopters) thinks past the next lunchtime. Well, maybe they do, but the accountants don't :)

Phil

[Decredenza]

It is a very difficult position that you are in and I empathize with you.

However I don't think much has changed since the 80's when I got my CPLH licence and then my start as a pilot 7 years later (after getting training and a job as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer).

If you look at it from the employer's point of view, you are asking them to hire someone with a low skill set (if you think you have a high one then you have pretty much eliminated yourself from consideration) who will take a million dollar machine, four or five people's lives and the possibility of generating half a million dollars in revenue per year and sending them off unsupervised.

The helicopter companies work very hard to acquire and keep their customers. It is very easy to lose them by having the wrong pilot. I submit that hiring the correct pilot is difficult and comes with a high level of risk - not crashing the helicopter but wrecking the client relationship.

After you ask yourself "How bad do I want to fly" you might want to ask "How can I prove that I am worthy of consideration".

Right place, right time with the right attitude is usually the way low time pilots get hired. Sweeping the floor for low wages and no guarantee sucks. But does it suck worse than not having a chance?

If you really want it - you will get it.

Chin up. Good luck.

[jymil]

I think something is not right if you exclusively rely on experienced pilots always being available on the market. Experience must come from somewhere, and if the industry doesn't train the next generation, it is not self-sustaining. Maybe that worked up to now because military training provided sufficient supply.

There are always some easy jobs a low timer can do. In Norway, they have the concept of hiring low timers as "load masters" for long lining and they do the repositioning flights as well, with the experienced guy doing the long lining. This way, you can organically grow long lining pilots. I bet only a low percentage of those pilots will say "f*** off" and move on for a better job after getting 1000hrs. In contrast, probably every sub-1000hrs pilot in the US is just trying to get the hell out of that crappy job as fast as possible.

However, this takes some long-term commitment and as Phil correctly stated, the industry seems to be rather short-sighted.

[MartinCh]

well, you're better off than most of the 100hr newbie Canadian TC CPL(H) holders. Although the way the job market is, as you know, not much scope for quick 'up the career ladder' till you get another few hundred hours. I'm surprised you flew so little while being so long with the company, though.

I can ditto with Decredenza.
I had the (dis)pleasure to 'bring customer' for my recent ex-boss (me back in Europe) in the USA on short term summer work visa, to hourbuild with me at small, family run flight school. I ended up flying quarter of the planned time and even then, I wish I didn't log those 10hrs/7 flights. I wish I never came across him.

Long story short, as junior heli (C)FI in the USA, I did my best, but still had to give up flying with, ehrm, let's say, Max, despite needing the time. I bent over backwards, wasted my time and effort. Max got Canadian CPL(H) and had some military pre-selection in the past. Technically smart, but not company pilot/staff material personality on many levels.
He'll never make it in civvy or military aviation. I felt bad for him, trying to talk sense nicely after we stopped flying together, but I was 'out to get him' and so on. All because I didn't want him to crash us (or get me fired) on numerous times, stuff rated pilot should not do/try to do, while I kept cool/nice for long. Crazy.

Agree with Paco on the 'wasting resources', doing menial work for low pay or free for way too long in some places in Canada or Australia, hangar ratting stuff, but then, unsafe and ego mindset isn't always seen straight away.

With the strict flight time/experience insurance requirements to be PIC on turbines, one would think that the industry/CAA/TC/operators would wise up and do more co-pilot spots/OJT for junior pilots. There are some, but very few. Also the payload/market/ops kind etc may not allow people being trained on the job and logging the vital time for insurance.

Regarding other countries, most of them would need citizenship/work rights and handful can be OK without certain passports, but then it's about experience/turbine time/TT. You're not in an easy country to start. Good luck with coming years. Oh, and get more R44 time if you don't happen to fly it already.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Here's another pennorth ... over the years, I've hired perhaps three dozen pilots and having been lucky myself to get from the first 45 hours to the more acceptable 1000 due to an understanding boss, I continued in his style.

In the 1980s when my company held an aerial photography contract I was hiring and was only interested in checking how pilot applicants actually handled a helicopter. For the task in hand, total experience was mostly the second consideration.

There's one of the most experienced pilots on here ... now AT/IR, who joined me around 1980 or so. (Hope your'e well TP) The post advertised required Enstrom experience which can be a tricky beast for a newcomer. He was newly graduated from the then Bristow sponsored scheme and when I suggested we do a flight check, he mentioned he had zilch experience on the type. Rightly or wrongly I just wanted to see his handling of an Enstrom. Obviously he was OK and stayed with the company long after I left and is now probably circa 10,000 plus hours and can teach me a thing or two!

We all like experience but in my book, not at the expense of good handling ... of course both qualities are best, but lets not rule out the low-time guys since as PACO has already said ... our industry needs to care for its own.

Hard hat installed! Dennis K.

[madflyer26]

I feel very fortunate with barely 200 hours on rotary to have goten a job in Zambia flying tourists around the mighty Victoria Falls. The company I work for also put me through my Jetty rating and once I have 400 hours I will be let loose on that.

Right now I am flying the 44 Raven 2 and I still get to fly the Jetty as training risk with the chief pilot so any small tasks involving that I get.

I think the biggest problem for low time pilots is the insurance companies aren't prepared to accept the risk and the employers aren't willing to pay loading fees hence being very difficullt to obtain work.

I hope the OP can find a job in which is a very difficult industry to break into. The advice I got from a very highly Sky God was don't be prepared to work for nothing, never burn your bridges as the industry is small and be prepared to work hard at times for not great pay, and eventually when you have the requisite hours you then can start being selective about your work. His time frame for that was around 15 years in the industry.

Luck is perhaps the wrong word but fortunate I am.

Regards
MF 26

[Not Nightowl]

That's a question you should put to insurance companies.

[paco]

One problem you could address before you go job hunting - I know three company owners who are doing their own CPL(H) because they can't find pilots with the right attitude. That's sad. By "attitude" I mean not going home before the rotors have stopped turning! :)

I always hire by attitude first, regardless of hours and experience (other limits permitting). I would rather type rate someone who won't p my customers off than hire someone who ticks all the boxes and does just that.

Phil

PS - I'm not suggesting for a minute that you have a bad attitude - just make sure you at least give the right impression!

[Aucky]

I know three company owners who are doing their own CPL(H) because they can't find pilots with the right attitude. That's sad.

Are you sure it's not partly that they themselves want to fly, because they enjoy flying helicopters, and know that without their own company it would be a much harder road ahead with bigger lifestyle changes in pay and location etc? Or perhaps they are not making the jobs openly available to a big enough catchment of potential applicants?

There is the issue that because we all (or mostly all) still enjoy flying helicopters many accept a lower reward than we probably should for our skill level, elevated daily risks, and return on investment made in ourselves. Employers who want the right calibre of pilot should be prepared to appeal to those pilots accordingly through good working conditions, safety culture, and salary (unlikely onshore), or hourly rate (which usually makes no account for time spent outside the cockpit rotors turning, though the duties extend well beyond). Whilst I appreciate that your friends might find it hard to find pilots who don't have getting home on their minds upon landing, might it be a reflection of a lack of the above in any aspect? I feel very lucky to work in an environment with a great safety culture, good working conditions, great colleagues, and good reward for the job in this area, as well as noticeable recognition for ones hard work. My colleagues would i'm sure say the same. I know some who don't get this feel from their employer, who are more inclined to want to get home before the rotors have stopped, and feel that even for that they are not sufficiently rewarded be it through pay or recognition. Could be them, but I think their work environment and reward have something to do with it too.

I would agree that attitude is key, but for peoples attitude to be judged they must be given an opportunity/interview - in a forum where there may be a good few unemployed/low-houred looking for work, perhaps even fitting the bill, and seeking even the opportunity to just have their attitude and personality judged by a potential employer, it may come across as a little unfair to imply that there aren't any suitable pilots out there... Perhaps it is indeed a true reflection but I think many find it hard to even secure the opportunity of an interview and chance to prove the have the correct attitude for the job. Perhaps if I were the employers taking the chances, and trying to seek out those suitable for the job I would feel quite different.

[Rotatohead]

Who in the world is actually welcoming high-time pilots?

[paco]

Are you sure it's not partly that they themselves want to fly

Yes - they're too busy running their companies to bother with that.

Phil

[Aucky]

So have they/you posted the details of the potential jobs on here? or with HelicopterPilotJobs? Would be interesting to hear what they are looking for and see if we can't find them some suitable applicants and save them some time and considerable effort? :ok:

[paco]

I'm sure they don't need me to tell them how to run their business, but they probably have the usual pile of resumes. Unfortunately it would appear that the difference between those and reality is not enough. One of them has simply decided it is quicker to do it himself.

phil