"Seat belts don't matter,” said Michael O’Leary, chief executive of Ryanair.

[msbbarratt]

It seems that our atmosphere is now silky smooth and wonderfully homogenous!

Seatbelts on planes are pointless, says Ryanair boss - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9661829/Seatbelts-on-planes-are-pointless-says-Ryanair-boss.html)

I'm sure that the Met office would agree :}

[fdr]

what does it take to get him removed from having any finger on the operational safety of the public.

EASA, grow some and downgrade the IAA if they won't curb his sociopathic tendencies.

His attitude as reflected by his public comments are inconsistent with his involvement in anything to do with public safety.:mad:


The outspoken chief executive added flights should no longer be considered a luxurious experience MOL

Apparently talking in past tense about the "Ryan experience".

[Loose rivets]

A loading bloke once got mad at me cos I refused to take the iron freight which was not strapped down. "It's heavy, it doesn't need a net."


MOL has to be kidding . . . doesn't he?


The outspoken chief executive added flights should no longer be considered a luxurious experience


Well, a lot of airline operators, would it seems, agree with him. Just picked the wife up from another flight from hell across the Atlantic.

In the old days we worked so hard to make passengers feel they weren't on a bus ride.

[What the Fug]

Telegraph bites , giving MOL free internet publicity.

[merlinxx]

That's it no seat belts & free blowjobs on long haul ! Go MOL, go far, far away:mad::ugh:

[Sober Lark]

Not O'Leary's fault if the Telegraph just doesn't understand the Irish sense of humour. It may take them a while but its fun 'taking the piss' especially when it gets printed.

[ericlday]

Seat belt signs switched on when flight deck have to visit the toilets so they cannot remove them !!!!

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Not only turbulence banished but "We don't have heavy landings anymore"

What?

[fireflybob]

Of course we all know that O'Leary makes these outlandish statements for free publicity (as if they needed it!) but this is a highly irresponsible statement to make - I pity his cabin crew having even more grief when it comes to getting certain passengers to buckle up for their own safety - you really have to ask the question, Irish or not, is this CEO "fit for purpose"?

Not only turbulence banished but "We don't have heavy landings anymore"

You mean like they did in Rome after a multiple bird strike on the approach?

In my opinion this has got nothing to do with the Irish sense of humour - flight safety is a serious business (ask anyone who has lost a loved one in an aircraft accident) and the CEO of an air transport undertaking should not be making such frivolous statements. Even if they are made in jest such a cavalier attitude ripples down from the top like a cancer.

I wonder iwhat he will be saying when they have their first major accident.

[lexoncd]

Telegraph bites , giving MOL free internet publicity.

Eaxctly, but it will be a case of keep him happy as he spends money with us advertising so we'll let him have the odd story every now and then. The sooner the media stop giving him free publicity about claims that everyone knows haven't got a cat in hells chance of coming into fruition the better. By all means report his comments on third runway at Heathrow but stop the outrageous PR ones.

[VS-Toga]

3 points;

1. Has O'Leary any clue about landing a 73? Hard as you like please, and just make sure the ****er STOPS flying.
2. Seatbelts- joke. SOmeone should sue him under Duty of Care as a director
3. Now I know turn around is essential for these guys, but has anyone but me notice the breath-taking taxi-ing speeds of RYR aircraft? It's like they're trying to qualify for a grand prix!!

[What the Fug]

MOL is well aware of what he is saying, just watch the google adverts catch up with this thread.

[cowhorse]

God forbid this ever happens, but I wonder what would MOL do if a RYR plane crashes (taking into account his outlandish statements about one pilot crew, no seatbelts etc)? Surely we know these are publicity stunts, but the general public doesn't ...

[Livesinafield]

They may be publicity stunts, but surely at some point there is publicity that your airline doesn't want eg The public (his customers) thinking that FR doesn't care about safety and to see a director disregard the use of seatbelts....

This Moron needs to be removed

[A A Gruntpuddock]

I think that you are all overreacting.

The rental of lead overshoes (£20 each) and crash helmets (£50 each) will ensure that passengers are adequately restrained and protected.

Any injuries which do result will be covered by the insurance policy (£100).

[fireflybob]

VS-toga, taxi speeds are monitored by OFDM - 30 max on straight taxiway, 10 kts for 90 degree turns and 50 kts if necessary for backtrack before take off! If you exceed you get to hear about it!

[Colonel Klink]

Standing room only on a 737-800??? It's about time this :mad: be put to rest!! He knows it can't be done, for the unititiated:
1. The floor would have to be stronger to accommodate the extra weight;
2. More Cabin Crew required for the extra passengers;
3. The CAA and Boeing would have to approve, and whether he likes it or not some means of restraint is required, and;
4. This would have to be done within the design center of gravity or it will sit on it's arse!!!
Now, Michael, shut the :mad: up!

[djwebby]

Seatbelts on planes are “useless” and would not save passengers in a crash, Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary has claimed, as he tries to push through plans to created standing room sections on flights.

“Seatbelts don’t matter. You don’t need a seatbelt on the London Underground. You don’t need a seatbelt on trains which are travelling at 120 mph and if they crash you’re all dead,” the Ryanair chief executive told the Telegraph.

He wants to push through standing-only cabins, which would be sold for £1 to European destinations.

O’Leary has suggested removing the back ten rows of seats in aircrafts, and said when it came to landing, passengers could “hang on to the handle” and would “be fine”.

“If you say to passengers it’s £25 for the seat and £1 for the standing cabin, I guarantee we will sell the standing cabin first,” he said. “No question.

“You should be able to choose from a safety perspective.

“We’re not talking about areas of huge turbulence around Europe.

“We don’t have heavy landings anymore “If you say to someone,’ look, hang onto the handle there, you’re coming in to land’, they’ll be fine,” he told the newspaper.

“We operate 1500 flights a day. They don’t come skidding in. This is a very routine, safe form of travel.”

European safety regulations currently rule out the idea of the standing cabins, stating that passengers must be belted in for take-off and landing.

But O’Leary branded the authorities as “plonkers”.

“We’re always looking for new ways of doing things; it’s the authorities who won’t allow us to do them,” he said. “They are all a bunch of plonkers.”

He added that flight should not be considered a luxurious experience any more, and that passengers were more focused now on simply getting to their destination.

“The problem with aviation is that for 50 years it’s been populated by people who think it’s this wondrous sexual experience; that it’s like James Bond and wonderful and we’ll all be flying first class when really it’s just a bus with wings.

“Most people just want to get from A to B. You don’t want to pay £500 for a flight.”

“You want to spend that money on a nice hotel, apartment or restaurant… “You don’t want to p—- it all away at the airport or on the airline,” O’Leary said.

[djwebby]

Another publicity stunt??

[VS-Toga]

Firefly, I'm well aware of that, but I've seen RYR doing speeds well in excess of that.

[Brian Abraham]

Perhaps he saw this video, or perhaps he even made it.

10 FUNNIEST AIRPLANE PARODIES - Pilots & Flight Attendants Behaving Badly! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SC_VRBuGQtA)

[Depone]

I've seen RYR doing speeds well in excess of that.


I don't know why people post this kind of nonsense. I very much doubt you routinely see FR aircraft taxiing at OFDM reportable speeds. I have never seen it. But I suppose flying with 140 different FR Captains and 3 years operating in airports frequented by FR aircraft where I've not seen such taxi speeds means I am just the odd one out. :ugh:

Everyone knows how hot FR is on OFDM incidents and how careful we pilots have to be to avoid giving management a reason to dispense with our services. Do you really think the airline has a culture of irresponsible taxiing or do just you have a an axe to grind?

As for O'Leary, he is a professional embarrassment but he is not running the show. He is there to crack whips while the operation is run by far more sensible people - albeit people who care little for their staff.

[DaveReidUK]

Already the subject of an active discussion in this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/499932-turbulence-banished.html

[VS-Toga]

No I don't have an axe to grind - maybe I am wrong- it's my perception though.
]
And don't forget, I'm in a 744 when I see this, so maybe the relative size difference gives the impression....]

And, I would never wish to offend a fellow professional, so pls don't think I'm having a pop at you.

[Blind Squirrel]

What I don't think the Chief Executive understands is that every time he makes statements of this kind, he is betting his entire operation on the preservation of a 100% safety record.

If (or God forbid, when) Ryanair has its first fatal accident, the jury in the wrongful death suit that will inevitably follow will have Mr O'Leary's collected wit and wisdom presented to it, in graphic detail, as evidence of a persistently cavalier attitude to aviation safety that went all the way to the top. It will then turn around and award the airline to the victims' relatives. Ryanair's pleas that it adhered to the legal minima will avail it naught in the face of pronouncements like these.

With his innumerable public bêtises, Mr O'Leary is piling up a mountain that will be impossible for the most skilful and expensive counsel for the defence to surmount.

[VS-Toga]

I actually see a lot of Gerard Ratner on MOL.

Sooner or later, his arrogance will bite him in the backside.

[Depone]

VS-TOGA

Sorry for the rant, but fellow pilots regularly mistake the behaviour of MO'L as being indicative of the attitudes to professionalism of the pilot workforce. As Blind Squirrel then points out, quite correctly, this impression of carelessness is building up a problem for the Company should it ever suffer a serious incident.

[PAXboy]

“If you say to passengers it’s £25 for the seat and £1 for the standing cabin, I guarantee we will sell the standing cabin first,” he said. “No question. You should be able to choose from a safety perspective."
All true. Make sure the small print for the standing places is different to the seats and away you go. Let them do it? Yes, of course.

Will this happen? No. Anyone involved with or interested in commercial aviation knows it won't happen. But free publicity wil happen. As someone in this thread points out, The Telegraph may get lots of advertising from FR and have to jolly him along now and then with the oxygen of free publicity.

[VS-Toga]

Depone- no worries bud.

The thing is, I can actually visualise the whole FD crew of FR facepalming and shaking their heads every time MOL opens his huge mouth!!

And he forgets, a poorly motivated and distracted flightdeck is an accident waiting to happen.

I don't think for one moment, any airman worth his salt would compromise ethics and safety. But still, he's putting a lot of pressure on them, which is not pleasant.

At VS, we're encouraged to be calm, happy, non-confrontational and engaging. Even a little PA humour is good at times and not discouraged.

I also feel very sorry for the crew- working under such confrontational customer relations must be a real strain. PAX are almost ready to complain before they even arrive at the Terminal.

CRM is not MOL's strongest suit.

[Superpilot]

"The problem with aviation is that for 50 years it's been populated by people who think it's this wondrous sexual experience..."

You've got to hand it to the aviation industry's biggest comedian though :ok:

[Golf-Sierra]

Well, he maybe does have a minor point that there is an enormous gap in safety culture across different modes of transport. Opening the door on the ramp or walking under the wing is a big no no, yet a few minutes later we get on the tube where trains rush along crowded platforms within a foot or so of people and at some stations the gap between train and platform is a few feet wide. And then we pack as many people as possible onto the train, no toilet or toilet u/s and it's not uncommon for the train to be stuck between stations for as long as it takes to emergency land from FL320 - yet somehow life just goes on and we live with it.

[Octopussy2]

As also pointed out on the R&N forum, what it may do is make life harder for cabin crew when enforcing seatbelts-on regulations - cue the smartarse who announces "But they don't make any difference - your boss said so".

I'd have loved O'Leary to be on the landing into GVA I had recently (in the aftermath of a storm) and tell me there's no such thing as turbulence in Europe anymore. When the aircraft fell about 20 ft a couple of times on approach, I was really rather glad of my seatbelt. Shame Mr. O'Leary couldn't have been there to demonstrate the efficacy of standing up and "just holding on to the handle" :E

[fireflybob]

Well, he maybe does have a minor point that there is an enormous gap in safety culture across different modes of transport. Opening the door on the ramp or walking under the wing is a big no no, yet a few minutes later we get on the tube where trains rush along crowded platforms within a foot or so of people and at some stations the gap between train and platform is a few feet wide. And then we pack as many people as possible onto the train, no toilet or toilet u/s and it's not uncommon for the train to be stuck between stations for as long as it takes to emergency land from FL320 - yet somehow life just goes on and we live with it.


Golf-Sierra, but am I correct in saying that the new stations on the Jubilee line have doors on the platform which only open when a train is in? Think about cars with mandatory seatbelts now and crash worthiness. In almost every other mode of transport we are increasing the level of safety rather than, as MOL is suggesting, we decrease same? Some difference methinks.

[Capot]

A sizeable and rather obvious flaw in O'Leary's argument that an aircraft is just a bus, so standing for a journey is quite alright, is that he's talking about short stage buses in towns, as I'm sure he realises full well.

The real comparison is with long-distance coach travel, where no-one would dream of standing for the whole journey, and where, guess what, the use of seat-belts has become compulsory in the UK at least and I'm sure most developed countries.

But then dear Michael's commercially-driven thirst for publicity has never allowed the facts to intervene in his carefully contrived "outrageous" pronouncements.

[Tinribs]

Someone has to give this fool a fair hearing, he knows not what he says

If Ryanair was as bad as we all like to think we would not be hoping they do not have an accident they would have had several by now. It follows they are not as bad as we think even if they are B awfull

They may be on the verge of several nasty events given the situation as we understand it which is that they have aquired through good selection a first rate set of skilled and lucky commanders who manage the risk well.

As the industry struggles back to its feet and those who able jump ship MOL may be able to maintain this happy state through continuous close scrutiny of the replacement commanders but the odds are against him

If the risk management pattern works as normal their next event will be an inexperienced skipper with a new or passed over FO in an awkward situation probably by night, bad weather or another demanding situation

All this is from slender knowledge; sharing an airfield with them for ten years and 1 flight

[VS-Toga]

it's an interesting one.

people often ask me about flight safety, and they often quote that famous stat 'oh it's ten times safer than driving'

Guess what? It is not.

It all depends on how you measure it.

If you measure on distance covered, yes, 10 times safer.

If you measure it in cycles (for the non Crew/airline staff, a cycle is a take off, flight and landing) then flying is 4 times MORE lethal.

Everytime I start the roll, I remember this, just to be better and safer.

Fact.

[VS-Toga]

Tinribs- on the money there alright.

The issue is- flying is commoditised, and MOL is leading that commoditization. And whenever something becomes commoditised it becomes of a lower quality.

Look at the number of low hour guys that cannot get a sniff of a seat!

Look at the starting salaries for FO's in LoCo's. London Bus and Tube drivers earn the same!!!!!!

It's outrageous.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Seatbelts on aeroplanes are pointless and will not save passengers in a crash, the chief executive of Ryanair has said, as he attempts to make “standing room only” cabins a reality.

Seatbelts on planes are pointless, says Ryanair boss - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9661829/Seatbelts-on-planes-are-pointless-says-Ryanair-boss.html)

[2EggOmelette]

Ok, fair enough. Lets do this. Kit out a 737 for standing. Mol and mates can do the first flight test as the crash test dummies. Worst possible weather with the shortest runway possible on the routes flown. If they survive, then they can give it thought.
Otherwise its the usual crap from an attention seeking megalomaniac (not a dumb one, but then neither was Hitler), which has been spouted about by a media outlet who is stupid and desperate enough to print it.

[ExXB]

Cryanair already has the maximum number of seats certified for the B737-800. He cannot add more passengers.

Fox News thinks he's British British airliner suggests creating 'standing room only' seats for cheaper travel | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/08/british-airliner-suggests-creating-tanding-room-only-seats-for-cheaper-travel/?)

[VS-Toga]

A 'true' story from a mate of mine- in around 1994, he got the wonderful job as Pink Floyd's tour skipper.

I cannot vouch if true or not, so don't shoot the messenger.

Now, not one to do things by halves, David Gilmour hired the Sultan of somewhere or another's personal 727. It has marble baths and stuff like that.

The SOP of the band and roadies was to wait for either Nick Mason or Gilmour (both rated on multi's I believe? Both total aviationheads...) then to take the controls...then, the band and crew would wildly run up and down the aircraft to destablise the the COG!!!!

I can see it now:

PIC to Gilmour: I thought you said you could fly..."
DG: (as plane wildly banks hither and thither, nose goes up, then down...)...."I can, I haven't a clue what's wrong with this thing!"

Probably the most expensive piece of childishness ever.

[cornish-stormrider]

simple question - coming into land at say - Geneva, and the wings are about meeting in the middle, we are rollercoastering left and right and people are barfing left and right, smell awful. the cabin crew have pulled their harnesses tight and we bounce down the runway after several attempts...

I challenge MOL to do that landing standing up hung on to the tube standing passenger handle - man's a plank....
end of.

[VS-Toga]

I see your Geneva and raise you a Jogjakarta or the old Honkers approach!!

[Khashoggi]

Turbulence?

The final drive towards the bus with wings...

“We don't have heavy landings anymore,” he told The Telegraph. "If you say to someone, 'look, hang onto the handle there, you're coming in to land,' they'll be fine.”

Heavy landings?? LOL

British airliner suggests creating 'standing room only' areas in planes for cheaper travel | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/08/british-airliner-suggests-creating-tanding-room-only-seats-for-cheaper-travel/?test=latestnews)

British airliner suggests creating 'standing room only' areas in planes for cheaper travel

One airline may give new meaning to the term “the cheap seats,” but it’ll cost you – a seat.

The head of a British budget airliner has suggested creating “standing room only” sections for flights within Europe with prices as low as $1.50 a ticket, The Telegraph reports.

"Seat belts don't matter,” said Michael O’Leary, chief executive of Ryanair. “If there ever was a crash on an aircraft, God forbid, a seat belt won’t save you.”

Current European safety regulations require passengers to be buckled up – and sitting in a seat – for takeoffs and landings.

But O’Leary has spoken out against the regulations, and has suggested removing the last ten rows of seats in an airplane to let people stand.

“We don't have heavy landings anymore,” he told The Telegraph. "If you say to someone, 'look, hang onto the handle there, you're coming in to land,' they'll be fine.”

[VintageRed]

What about CAT en-route?

[pigboat]

Is that guy really that f:mad:g stupid, or is this another of his schemes to get Ryanair some free publicity?

[Meccano]

HaHa!
Micko has been gagged by his handlers for a few weeks during the renewed EI bid. He actually seemed to have copped on that he needs to shut up during the process.
But he just couldn't resist, could he. Couldn't keep it in any longer, that insane little monkey that chatters in his ear all day always has to vent with an ear piercing screech. He's like a Tourette's sufferer. He just can't f- f - FECKIN help himself!!

What a nutter.

Maybe he realises the game is up on his bid anyhow, so let the monkey screech.

[J.O.]

Aviation's answer to P.T. Barnum once again succeeds in finding a sucker in the media to publish his drivel. The man's an attention whore and the Telegraph is little more than his latest John.

[Meccano]

By the way - to all the FR Fanboys out there who are talking up his bid, aren't you ashamed of yourselves? Do you call yourselves professional pilots?
How do you like working for a madman? Why do you expect the real pilots who have some remaining self respect and pride in their profession to want to follow you into your cess pit of self loathing and idiocy.
You are a disgrace to the profession FFS.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Suggesting that there are no more heavy landings, and conveniently ignoring CAT, is like one of our local bureaucrats who wanted to close the secondary, grass, runway used by GA aircraft at our local airfield because - wait for it, modern aircraft don't need the pilot to be trained for cross-wind landings anymore, so we'll plough up the runway and sell it for development i.e. more income from Rates.

Flying into the USA recently,an announcement was made that there was to be no collection of small groups around the areas near the toilets i.e. no queues ( because of course that's where the Bad Boys would collect to finalise their cunning plots ) so how would that fit in with a gang standing around at the back? 10 rows, at least 60 seats, so perhaps a mob of 80 plus standing close together, just like the tube at rush hour ?

World's Gone Mad.

[MaxReheat]

The man is a moron and should be treated as such.

[Rollingthunder]

Was looking for cartoon of Michael O’Leary with his head through an overhead bin on first stand-up flight....no luck yet...but he is a cartoon.

[A and C]

The biggest fear of MoL is that he won't see his name in the paper on a weekly basis, on his forum I would say don't feed the troll.

As for the Telegraph reporter, you are a sucker who has just been used to further the ends of MoL and Ryanair, your bosses should take the cost of the advertisement you have just written for Ryanair out of your pay.

[air doris]

I don't post here often but this has made news headlines in Australia and for all the wrong reasons. Is this guy for real? A CEO of a very successfull airline pretty much publicly stating that saftey doesn't matter when flying with RyanAir. Has he completely lost the plot? I think he finally has and ludicrous headline comments to get RyanAir publicity may now come back to bite him. Clear Air Turbulance is one of the biggest killers of airline passengers and crew who are not restrained by a seatbelt, look at QF at Learmonth for example and may other in flight incidents. Those restrained by seatbelts remain relatively safe but those unrestrained are severely injured or worse. I do agree with his argument that trains are not required to be fitted with seat belts, thats something I have always had a problem with however instead of thinking thats ok be proactive and say it's not ok. RyanAir, luckily has been without serious incident so far. His comments will definatly suggest to me that it's now not a safe airline with a CEO saying seatbelts "don't matter." What a stupid and irresponsible comment. Safety and welfare of his passengers and crew is obviously not top of his agenda. However, people will continue to fly them over an airline that takes safety very seriously because they are cheap. Do people actually realise it's not a bus or train? Obviously not.

[aergid]

It never ceases to amaze me how many fall into Mr O'Leary's obvious traps....

Standing Room?:eek:
Charging for Toilet 1e?:eek:
Only 1 toilet on board?:eek:
Crew to weigh no more than 80kg?:eek:
Coffins delivered to the inaugural opening of Dublins new Terminal?:eek:
Using a Taxi Plate on his private car to skip queues in Dublin City Centre?:eek:
and so the list grows.......

He sits in his office and thinks "how can I get some publicity for the most successful airline in Europe?", he doesnt care if its good, bad or indifferent....

He gets people talking about FR full stop....:D

Oh and as already stated in other threads FR crew are extremely well trained and spend alot of time in the sim....
Their Aircraft are brand new
Their maintenance is top drawer and their Ramp Safety is better than most Airlines...

I hope these comments are not clouded by jealousy lads/lasses ;)

Just dont bite:ugh:

[AndoniP]

He gets people talking about FR full stop....:D

People talk about FR... most of it not in a positive way.

[aergid]

thats the point:

Person 1 - "Can you believe Ryanair want to introduce Standing Room areas on Aircraft"
Person 2 - "No way is he crazy"
Person 1 - "Must be, but then again his flights are reliable and cheap"
Person 2 - "pfff I have never flown with FR, I would prefer to fly our national Airline in comfort"
Person 1 - "I suppose, but I flew from STN - PFO for 75e return, only took some hand luggage. The flight was comfortable, onboard service was reasonable and we arrived 20mins early to PFO"
Person 2 - "Thats a great price, when I flew LGW-PFO It cost me 560gbp return and I thought I got a good deal :("
Person 1 - "FR is like a bus service, get on fly get off easy"
Person 2 - "ya know I think I will give them a go, cheers m8"

A long but not unusual conversation to show to some doubters how even tongue in cheek bad publicity, can quickly change into "bums on seats"....
Its basic marketing strategies taught to PR peeps at kindergarten.....

[763 jock]

O'Leary has a short memory.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Bird-hit jet in emergency landing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7719716.stm)

[funkydreadlocks]

I hate flying with Ryanair, unfortunately as a student I can't afford anyone else, and they are the only ones that fly Malaga-Edinburgh. It's outrageous. The seats are uncomfortable, 9/10 times the cabin crew is unfriendly, space is limited, you're treated like cattle and you have to pay 10 pounds to be allowed to sit at an emergency exit. I remember a few years ago when in other airlines they would move people in unbusy flights to make sure someone was at the emergency exit. It should be illegal. NOW SEATBELTS???? WTF is wrong with them? If they make standing tickets, i might just shoot myself.


I'd rather never make it as a pilot than work for them.

[Best foot forward]

Put it to the test, take the seats out, get MOL to stand at the back of the acft set auto brakes to max. Problem solved.

[Lurking_SLF]

Come on folks - to partially quote another Irish man - "What is worse that being talked about?"

[The African Dude]

Put it to the test, take the seats out, get MOL to stand at the back of the acft set auto brakes to max. Problem solved.

Seconded. Might finally shut him up.

[TSR2]

Since when has Ryanair been a 'British Budget Airliner'.

[Bigmouth]

I hate flying with Ryanair, unfortunately as a student I can't afford anyone else, and they are the only ones that fly Malaga-Edinburgh. It's outrageous. The seats are uncomfortable, 9/10 times the cabin crew is unfriendly, space is limited, you're treated like cattle and you have to pay 10 pounds to be allowed to sit at an emergency exit. I remember a few years ago when in other airlines they would move people in unbusy flights to make sure someone was at the emergency exit. It should be illegal. NOW SEATBELTS???? WTF is wrong with them? If they make standing tickets, i might just shoot myself.


I'd rather never make it as a pilot than work for them.


All of which doesn´t stop you from flying with them. With friends like these...


:mad::mad::ugh::mad::mad:

[SAXONBLOKE]

Lets not forget this is also the man that says that you only need 1 pilot on the flightdeck ~ as you can train the cabin crew to land the plane in an emergency. :rolleyes:

We shouldn't really induldge the c##t by even aknowleding / commenting on his pathetic ramblings.

[Depone]

Don't worry air doris, this is normal publicity-seeking behaviour from MO'L, ejaculating sound bites into the atmosphere, hoping to impregnate the minds of the general public with the Ryanair brand. And he is incredibly successful at so doing. Whatever is said here on Pprune, the passenger numbers suggest more people are happy to fly with Ryanair than any other European airline.

Funkydreadlocks, you are too young to remember the old days, say 15 years ago, when your flight from Edinburgh to Malaga would have cost you £300 and would have been scheduled for one day per week. Yes, you would have been served a sandwich and the hostess would have said 'Sir' but as you say, you couldn't afford those prices anyway - so you wouldn't make the flight anyway. :rolleyes: Oh, and Ryanair do move people to emergency exit flights if nobody buys the seats. Sometimes the cabin crew are a bit sour-faced but they work under massive stress and most are quite jolly!

Meccano. Forgive me, but you are offensive and wide of the mark if you think that pilots who fly for Ryanair are unprofessional. They come from similar backgrounds to other pilots, do the same flight training, pass the same ATPL exams, do as much recurrent training as everyone else to standards admired within the training industry, and despite MO'L's attempts to denigrate their profession continue to perform in a demanding commercial environment. Many pilots at major legacy carriers started with Ryanair.

Don't confuse the public face of Ryanair with the attitude of its pilots. We are all embarrassed by MO'L but it is water off a duck's back to us.

[Sober Lark]

"Since when has Ryanair been a 'British Budget Airliner'."

Ask any of their long-standing customers.

[cameltruck]

Mr O'Leary is right, we don't need seat belts on aeroplanes, instead Ryanair should demand its passengers wear bubble wrap attire. And the bubbles should be filled with helium to reduce our gross weight. Plus security would be happy because they can quickly see through the see-through bits.

[wittonbob]

Why stop there MoL - stairs down into the cargo hold would provide 50% more standing room. The SLF could always sit on whatever cargo was down there!

[cwatters]

Sshhhh, the press release about pax riding in the cargo hold isn't due to be released until next month.

[LS-4]

Meccano. Forgive me, but you are offensive and wide of the mark if you think that pilots who fly for Ryanair are unprofessional. They come from similar backgrounds to other pilots, do the same flight training, pass the same ATPL exams, do as much recurrent training as everyone else to standards admired within the training industry, and despite MO'L's attempts to denigrate their profession continue to perform in a demanding commercial environment. Many pilots at major legacy carriers started with Ryanair.

Don't confuse the public face of Ryanair with the attitude of its pilots.

I share this impression. Although most people seem to agree that the terms could be better to say the least, most pilots I've discussed this with (former FR or with no affiliation) seem to be pleased with their operational standards.

I'm interested, but at the same time I'm torn by the idea of contributing to deteriorating terms for pilots. I hope for some legislation to come to our aid in the future, but I'm not expecting anything.

[cldrvr]

Ryanair has returned 1.5Bn in cash to shareholders and still sits on a stash of 3.5bn in cash. MOL can drivel all he wants, he runs a tight ship and makes some serious money for his investors, that's what it is all about.

[cldrvr]

Of course this thread will get muddled again with how bad the T&C's are, well you guys accepted it, can't blame MOL for trying. He is in the business of making money and as long as he finds crew that will sign on the dotted line why would he offer a better package.

[Depone]

LS-4

You're right, apart from the guys close to retirement, the new command upgrades and the starry-eyed cadets, almost all FR pilots want to leave because of the deteriorating terms and conditions, but that is another issue altogether.

[flydive1]

I hate flying with Ryanair, unfortunately as a student I can't afford anyone else, and they are the only ones that fly Malaga-Edinburgh. It's outrageous. The seats are uncomfortable, 9/10 times the cabin crew is unfriendly, space is limited, you're treated like cattle and you have to pay 10 pounds to be allowed to sit at an emergency exit. I remember a few years ago when in other airlines they would move people in unbusy flights to make sure someone was at the emergency exit. It should be illegal. NOW SEATBELTS???? WTF is wrong with them? If they make standing tickets, i might just shoot myself.


I'd rather never make it as a pilot than work for them.

Yes, you are right, they should price it out of your range, so you would not have to endure the pain of flying with them and you could comfortably take the train.;)

[FAStoat]

When his crews were on a Basic pay plus Sector Pay only,I was several times returned to where I had come from with a minor Tech problem. The Flight Deck decided it would be cost effective for them as it meant extra sector pay,although several of us on board were travelling back from a 10 day duty,and our Company used this "Low Cost" means of getting us back. This often meant eating into our days off,so it was particularly inconvenient,to say the least.I remember such faults as "Whistling from the Cabin Doors"-this happens on most well used Aircraft and is sorted by wet jay cloth stuffed around the seals,or Hosties skin cream to lubricate the dry seals!!!!!!!!!!!!Anyway this was happened on a regular basis having talked to other positioning crews with this crowd:mad:It is about time would be passengers tried some alternatives to bleed MOl from some of his ill gotten gains!

[LS-4]

Depone,

If I may ask:

Is the roster currently getting more and more crowded, thereby resulting in more standby time for most pilots? Are there any significant differences between bases?

Looking past the current T&Cs for the moment, how are most FR crews doing? Is the social environment good?

If this isn't a good place to discuss this, please PM me if you wish to reply.

[aergid]

:eek:Sorry guys

I would rather pay 75 euro to fly around Europe with FR than pay the hugely exagerated prices of the Draconian National Carriers who's crew's honestly believe they are doing you the favour of flying you to your destination...

MO'L good on ya keep the comments up :D I love the listening to all the septic anti-FR comments they bring...

PS which European Airlines have made big profits over the last few years?

ehh I can think of only 1 maybe 2 if you include Stelios Orange/White Taxi's before he was put out to pasture and they decided they wanted to become LCC fodder....:ok:

PS I am not FR employed :eek:

[buzzc152]

As dispicable and thoroughly unpleasant a man he is, O'Leary is not serious in his suggestion. I would bet a large sum that if the regulator called his bluff and said, "Ok Mr O'Leary, you can do away with seatbelts and have standing room only," he 'd never really do it. Imagine the carnage after just a few days. Pax crushed as the airplane brakes on the runway, people bouncing off the ceiling........
And even if he was mad enough to do, and pax where mad enough to go for it, I think I'd just about have enough faith in the professionalism of Ryanair crew to refuse it.

[Doors to Automatic]

I am not normally one to revel in others' misfortune but I for one cannot wait until MOL has his "Gerald Ratner" moment :ok:

[Depone]

LS-4

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate over FR but in answer to your questions:

This is a huge airline. 3000 pilots. 50 bases. There is so much variation that there is no easy answer. Plus, the winter schedule has started so planes are being parked, fewer pilots are need and standbys are increasing. Same for all airlines over winter.

Lots of very nice people fly for FR. I can't speak for others but I look forward to each day at work. I do not look forward to the updating of the roster each week. I do not feel secure in my job. One cannot feel proud of FR but one can feel pride in one's own professionalism.

[BerksFlyer]

I would rather pay 75 euro to fly around Europe with FR than pay the hugely exagerated prices of the Draconian National Carriers who's crew's honestly believe they are doing you the favour of flying you to your destination...

Yet the only reason Ryanair can afford to offer such low prices is because of the dubious working practices its pseudo-employees are under. It's a zero sum game.

Maybe the question to ask yourself is 'how much should a flight across Europe cost?' If you compare it to a rail fare or a bus journey, it should cost a lot closer what the 'Draconian' carriers (who employ by the rules) ask for than what Ryanair charge. Obviously it is a free market and few make decisions based on this, but the point is that fares are only so cheap for an artificial reason. Costs should not be as low as Ryanair's and if they ever get pulled up on their employment practices fares will rocket.

[gemma10]

All window blinds to be locked in the closed position. Insert 2 euros to open:(

[timmcat]

No hard landings anymore? I think there may be a little irony going on there Michael... As a reasonably frequent flyer over the last two or three years the only hard landings I've had were with FR (one in particular was an absolute belter). As the Ryanair flights are the ones I pay for (as against my business related travel) they tend to include my family who now think that this type of landing is the norm...

Having said that, brilliant business model and as a pax I've no issue whatsoever in flying FR.

[fireflybob]

Actually on a lot of flights Ryanair are not the cheapest when you take all charges into account.

Have friends who travel to Gran Canaria on a regular basis who say Thomson and Monarch are cheaper. The biggest PR stunt Ryanair have pulled is making the herd think they are always the cheapest! Even if they are a few quid cheaper I would rather pay the extra to enjoy a modicum of customer service.

[Road_Hog]

I like Ryanair (not MOL). I've flown with them quite a few times (although not in the last couple of years) and apart from one business flight, I've travelled for free (a penny) on all of them.

Just untick the insurance, hand baggage only and print your own boarding cards and you're off. I suspect the days of free flights have now vanished with the 'green' taxes.

What I did like about the flights, was that you were boarded about 5 minutes before take off (arrivals out the rear exit and new passengers through the front exit/entrance) and you were off the plane within about 2 minutes of touch down. None of this being herded to the departure gate an hour before take off and herded onto the plane 40 minutes before take off.

[Burnie5204]

The offload rear, boarding at front practice stopped a while back when DFT found out and, quite rightly, pulled MOL up on it and ordered it to cease on UK Ops due to unacceptably high risk of arrivals and departing pax mixing.

[sf25]

come on! ... flying without seat belts resp. standing is not even worth discussing .... it´s all about marketing. for o´leary much more important than being the cheapest is that people THINK he´s the cheapest.
... for that even the most stupid discussions help ...
(... as much as ugly cabin interiors do)

[Bengerman]

Road Hog, it's people like you who allow the little :mad: to get away with it.

You get what you pay for in the end.

[racedo]

Since when has Ryanair been a 'British Budget Airliner'.

Given the quality of writing and lack of accuracy of the piece, I feel it belongs more in a humour section, that in Rumours and News.

[timmcat]

Road Hog, it's people like you who allow the little Ars*hole to get away with it.

You get what you pay for in the end.

Umm, OK, lets see -


Total fares usually lower than the competition (but yes, not always).

New aircraft.

Excellent record for punctuality.

Great crew training and an exceptional safety record.

An entertaining CEO


I've been around here long enough to know the dark side too (and have friends who work for the airline) but, as a pax I really don't see the problem.

[Meccano]

Meccano. Forgive me, but you are offensive and wide of the mark if you think that pilots who fly for Ryanair are unprofessional. They come from similar backgrounds to other pilots, do the same flight training, pass the same ATPL exams, do as much recurrent training as everyone else to standards admired within the training industry, and despite MO'L's attempts to denigrate their profession continue to perform in a demanding commercial environment. Many pilots at major legacy carriers started with Ryanair.

Dear Depone, I suggest you again read what I wrote. I specifically addressed the FR FANBOYS, not the poor b'stads like you who are simply making a living.
There's a Fanboy on this thread - and more on others.
I can understand your embarrassment though.
Good luck in getting out pdq.

[Meccano]

No hard landings anymore? I think there may be a little irony going on there Michael... As a reasonably frequent flyer over the last two or three years the only hard landings I've had were with FR (one in particular was an absolute belter).

I've only flown with FR once. Felt I had to try it one time.,:ooh:
Nice windy day at DUB. Gusting over 40 from the south. Everything was delayed. Even our FR flight pushed back 1 hour late.
We taxied out to RW28, the aircraft rocking and rolling in the strong wind.
Lined up, and away we went.
Got airborne with no drama, and you could hear sighs of relief from all around.
The turbulence was still bad, but we'd be through that in a minute.
But no - the morons up front decided to make up some lost time, and we started accelerating on RWY heading at 3,000ft (pointing the wrong direction from where we were supposed to be going).
As the speed built the cabin fell silent. Even the punters knew what was coming. The aircraft felt like it was an enormous tuning fork - it literally hummed as the vibration built and the turbulence and speed increased. I looked around to see drained and frightened faces all around me, AND PEOPLE CLUTCHING THEIR SEATBELTS.
The inevitable then happened - it took a series of immense jolts and rolls. People screamed! Then they finally started it climbing again....in a matter of minutes we were in smooth air.
Had to be one of the stupidest examples of bad airmanship I've ever witnessed.
I'd hate to think what would've happened if there were no belts.
Maybe a few lawsuits would make Micko think harder.

[EIDWSkypilot]

This story appears to have begun with Fox News and was then taken up by the Telegraph....Hardly anything new in the standing idea and as outlined certainly inaccurate calling FR a British airline.

The initial idea of standing room was previously floated in China and described as bar stool type seating with a vertical bar and seatbelt. As such it would perfectly facilitate headbanging and any operation implementing it could be aptly called a headbanger airline. Naturally the idea appealed to MOL where it quickly joined the coin slot operated toilets and oxygen masks.

Without hearing/seeing the full interview it is difficult to ascertain who is actually flying kites and who is taking the p..s. However, if as is stated, it is making news in the US, Australia and Europe and achieving rants on PPRUNE I've a fairly good idea as to who is taking the p..s as per usual....:rolleyes:

[170to5]

Simple one this one:

1) the clearest example of statements for free publicity I've seen even him make
2) If you can fly Ryanair for 1p, and make him pay for you to travel with him, I hope some people do. I'm more than happy for people to take money from him. I stop, though, at anything approaching the break-even point though...

Still think they'll go bust. It may take a while though, and I hope when the walls fall down that all the people he 'employs' (you know what I mean anyway) aren't brought down by it, I firmly believe you hate the game, not the players.

[nimsu1987]

He doesn't mean it. It is a publicity stunt. His own airline has been involved in turbulence injuries, so I'm sure he does really know the necessity of seatbelts. The truth about O'Leary is that he isn't as stupid as he makes himself look.

[Domi]

Only "positive +++" landings.... :E

Ryanair Hard Landings - YouTube

[Domi]

New aircraft.

Great crew training and an exceptional safety record.

An entertaining CEO

1/ not always - their aircraft become older and older month after month, just like any other airlines. Some of them have more than 30 000 FH - first delivery of 737-800 in 2002...

2/ not always - young CPT with no special airmanship - but strong Ryanair corporate culture = SOP and SOP and... SOP. Reports of accidents/incidents can be found thru several aviation authority websites. But yes : no crash.

3/ the CEO doesn't love aviation - just cash.

[ross_M]

Costs should not be as low as Ryanair's and if they ever get pulled up on their employment practices fares will rocket.

Can you elaborate as to what these illegal employment practices are?

The offload rear, boarding at front practice stopped a while back when DFT found out and, quite rightly, pulled MOL up on it and ordered it to cease on UK Ops due to unacceptably high risk of arrivals and departing pax mixing.


What's the huge underlying risk of an arriving PAX mixing with a departing PAX?

[Fredairstair]

Hate to say it and God knows I'm no fan of FR but most of those landings look ok to me. Perhaps the pax weren't wearing their seatbelts?!? ;)

[Depone]

Oh come on guys! I refuse to believe that Ryanair pilots are any worse at landing the 738 than pilots from other airlines. What nonsense!

FR make all their money from ancillary sales, airport subsidies and avoiding paying employer's tax. Simple. Everyone knows this.

Domi. A lot of the older ac have been sold, but yep, many are getting long in the tooth. Many more tech issues than even a year or so ago.

[Leg]

The excessive taxi speed could be viewed as poor airmanship. :=

[BEagle]

One cannot feel proud of FR but one can feel pride in one's own professionalism.

I'm sure that prostitutes think the same.....:hmm: Ryanair is the definition of the 'unacceptable face of capitalism'.

Whilst mug punters are stupid enough to fly with Ryanair, Mikey-the-Pikey will laugh in their faces all the way to the bank. To my mind, people who fly with Ryanair fall into the same category as those who buy counterfeit goods at car boot sales and see nothing wrong with pirated software....

Get some sense of pride and personal integrity and avoid flying Ratner-air!

[aergid]

Get some sense of pride and personal integrity and avoid flying Ratner-air!

Whats the alternative?

Pay vastly over inflated prices to fly "National Carriers"

where the Cabin Crew look down the their noses at anyone not in J Class....
To fly Airframes 10-20yrs old (at least)
To have delays due to pompous crews being on strike because someone is threatening to take away their draconian T&C's
Yeah right.....

I will stick with jumpin on the next FR bus service throughout Europe, where I at least get what I pay for :ugh:

[up_down_n_out]

Alternative?
"Pay vastly over inflated prices to fly "National Carriers"

where the Cabin Crew look down the their noses at anyone not in J Class....
To fly Airframes 10-20yrs old (at least)
To have delays due to pompous crews being on strike because someone is threatening to take away their draconian T&C's"

Strangely enough I regularly fly BA, as well as EZY, GWI, and have used UTA, TSO and others in Eastern Europe.
Not a single one of those criticisms was even remotely true, apart from the inevitable close encounter with AFL, who I would never ever fly again.

Generally speaking QOS actually meant something.
The price was actually LOWER than the equivalent Ryan con job, dragging you into some deserted airport 3hrs from any town.

Of course your mileage will vary.
It's a long time I for one abandoned the Ryan experience as being for the truly desperate, managed by the despicable, checked in by pit bulls, and security checked by sleep deprived ego trippers.

Now we hear it's for the suicidal as well?

Nota:-
I remember one recent flight when the PAX all started to get up and open luggage lockers, when the a/c was still taxiing to the terminal. An announcement STILL had no tangible result to make them sit down, so the PIC slammed on the anchors.

I watched as the 8-10 PAX were pitched down the aisle, on to some particularly fat woman.
LOL!
Lucky that made for a soft landing, but WHAT IF?

[bille1319]

I hear his latest suggestion is to introduce outside toilets:D

[TightSlot]

And on that happy, if rather old and tired note I think we shall euthanise this thread which has faithfully served us all by confirming our pre-existing prejudices (Yawn) whatever they may have been...

:ugh: