Oh dear, another Senior Officer headwear error...

[Lima Juliet]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/9B9A592A_5056_A318_A846E8803DAECF82.jpg

I suggest a CAS' Study Period on dress and headwear, old boy :ok:

LJ :p

[Onceapilot]

Dress code seems to change as fast as policy (or is it politics?) these days!

OAP

[sycamore]

Looks like L/Cpl Jones (RIP, got promoted for a `last parade).....

[4fitter]

My first thoughts also this morning. However, impeccable sources suggest after last VSO head dress and wings on combats fiasco, that the rules were changed. It seems to be legit!

[Rigga]

Is the caption:

(In a feable and quiet voice) "..and you've all done very well..."

(Young Mr Grace - 1980's)

[The B Word]

Nope, AP1358 Ch 2 quite clearly states:


0228. PCS CU Authorised Ensemble. When authorised to wear and except where a specific order of dress has been prescribed by the chain of command, only the approved PCS CU ensemble, as detailed below, is to be worn. Other items of operational clothing issued for specific operations outside the UK are not to be worn in the UK and NWE. Illustrations and relevant orders of dress are detailed at the end of this section. PCS CU ensemble comprises of:

a. Headdress. When there is no operational requirement to wear a helmet, the service issue beret, with appropriate hat badge, must be
worn by all ranks.


I believe ACM is one of the "all ranks"? :=

The B Word

[NutLoose]

It looks like his head shrunk in the wash too.
You have got to feel sorry for the old duffer, his career prospects are nil, he'll never get promoted.

[glad rag]

Who mentioned puppies :E

[ShyTorque]

I believe ACM is one of the "all ranks"?

Yes, but I think he also counts as "the chain of command" so he can wear what he B....... well likes! ;)

[NutLoose]

Actually it people like that flaunting the standards that sets a bad precedent, how can you admonish someone else when all he has to say is well the CAS does.

[500N]

Isn't that what the Senior Enlisted person in each service is for
ie RSM Army and whatever the other services have ?

I knew one who was RSM of a Command and he said that one
of his functions was to advise the Commander of dress etc
for activities / functions.

[Lima Juliet]

500N

That'll be the CAS WO then...WO Graeme Spark RAFP

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FE89C660_5056_A318_A85E093CBEC59A4F.jpg

Take a b0ll0cking Mr Spark, for letting CAS go out in such rag order :=

LJ

[500N]

Yes, a more senior person along the lines of "Mr Warwick" :O

With all the changes of regulations re dress (we had the same here
at one time and again recently), my CO / OC's were always asking
the RSM / CSM the latest rules.

[Lima Juliet]

We need Mr Warwick back...

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/MrW.jpg

...queue BEagle for his smutty collection of Susannah York photos! :ok:

LJ

[ShyTorque]

Please spare us from that; it's an obsession! :p

[Trash 'n' Navs]

P'hew, so glad the Real Air Force focuses on the important issues.

[parabellum]

A good RSM runs the whole place re dress etc. Walking along about ten paces behind a young Lieutenant one day, RSM coming in opposite direction, RSM bangs up an immaculate salute and calls across, "Mr.XXXX Sir, I have the barber booked for 11.00 hours, perhaps you would care to join me?!"

Best screen version of an RSM I can remember was Richard Attenborough in a film that I think was called, "The Hill" but may have been, "The Guns of Batasi"?

[500N]

RSM's - on the comedy side it had to be It Ain't Half Hot Mum" !

Have to think about the best one on the serious side.


In my first unit, the 2IC (Capt) was an ex Reg Army RSM,
by god he was good, knocked me into shape !!! and pushed m
to get a Commission.

.

[500N]

Trash

Not important ?

When it has happened over here, every soldier notices and remembers.

[Pontius Navigator]

They just like to be different. When the forage cap was firt introduced gp capts were livid as they just looked like any other JO or wg cdr hence the permission to wear one with piping.

At least they didn't invent a two-tone floor mop.

Now who was Mr Warwick looking at?





hat, coat, scarf

[dctyke]

.http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FE89C660_5056_A318_A85E093CBEC59A4F.jpg

Take a b0ll0cking Mr Spark, for letting CAS go out in such rag order :=

Unless you were a SWO when this was taken also take a b0ll0cking for the swo's stick.

[BEagle]

Now who was Mr Warwick looking at?

Kenneth More as Gp Capt Baker.

Richard Attenborough's portrayal of the archetypal RSM Lauderdale in Guns at Batasi was indeed excellent:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/RSMLauderdale.jpg

"I can always stomach a good soldier whatever his faults! What I can't stomach are Bolshies, skivers, scrimshanks, and boghouse barristers! I've broken more of them than you've had eggs for breakfast! If I take a likin' to you, lad, I'll be your good friend and counsellor. If you offend me, I'll pull out your sausage-like intestines, hang 'em round your neck, and prick 'em every so often like they do real sausages!"

And the excellent 'saluting' scene:

?v=qzKTOUkroU0&feature=player_detailpage

:ok:

Anyway, good to see that the CAS wasn't wearing an onion johnny's hat.

[Cows getting bigger]

I happened to share a London Underground carriage with CASWO the other week (purely a coincidence with no significant exchange of bodily fluids ;) ) and was equally intrigued by a snowdrop carrying a stick.

He was very smart though.

[VinRouge]

Who cares? Really is it that important?

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

And the excellent 'saluting' scene:

Surely in this PC day and age, he'd be on a fizzer for racial harassment?:E

[Onceapilot]

Trash "n" Nav's

The British Army have strongly enforced dress codes in the sandpit. So, it must be an important issue!

OAP

[Climebear]

I'm with VinRouge on this one. I actually joined the queue at the Outrage Bus stop but then had a serious word with myself.

I wonder if any of us light-blue types have never failed to follow AP1358 to the letter? Such as:

Not wearing the plastic name badge thing in No1SD jacket or No2SD jersey.

Not wearing a SD hat in No5SD when walking to/from the Mess.

Wearing sqn/unit cummerbunds with No5SD when there are official guests at a Mess Dinner.

Wearing sqn bow ties in No5SD.

Bridegrooms and Best Men wearing the ceremonial sword belt (the blue and gold one) at their wedding rather than the normal fitting (under the jacket one).

(Especially for Gunners) wearing badges on No3SD that have not been approved for wear on RAF uniforms.

Not having a 3mm gap between rows of medal ribbons on the No1SD jacket.

Etc.

So if you are confident that you have always followed the AP to the letter, please comment; but, let's put this in perspective.

(Oh - for the pedants - CASWO has a stick of office (as detailed in AP1358) as does - IIRC - the Command WO for reserves).

[HAS59]

My DI in '72 (Sgt Roe) told us that there were two ways of doing things with uniforms, The right way and ... All the other wrong ways. It seems simple, CAS got it wrong. It matters because every time we let him away with getting 'little' things wrong standards slip.

[Genstabler]

Quite right too. If you allow the unimportant standards to slip, it is not long before the important ones become infected as well. Look after the pennies and the pounds look after them selves.

[Tankertrashnav]

P'hew, so glad the Real Air Force focuses on the important issues.

Lest it be thought that I share the views of the somewhat similarly named trash 'n' navs I have to disagree. I've heard this - "I'm a bloody good pilot/nav/cook/bottlewasher etc so it doesnt matter what I look like" argument loads of times, usually from people who aren't quite as good as they think.

[Pontius Navigator]

At morning prayers, during an exercise in the 1980s, as I stood on the rostrum, the station commanders singled me out as an example of how one should be attired in DPMs of the day. I wore that horrible green shirt thingy etc.

OC Ops wore an aircrew shirt as a polo vest with a desert shirt underneath, some wore blue shirts and ties etc etc.

I confessed to the staish afterwards that I was actually wearing flying boots and not combats - so none of us was in a uniform at all!

[GANNET FAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWd_RvUzqw&playnext=1&list=PL33535A1D2B506751&feature=results_video
Parabellum, try Harry Andrews in The Hill. Stunningly menacing performance as an RSM

[Wensleydale]

Of course, the army CSM has always got his uniform hacked....

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/buster1_05/TerryScottAndRoyCastle1.jpg

[teeteringhead]

dctyke

CASWO has his own special stick. AP1358 is your friend. Canes and Pace Sticks

0129. Only the following uniformed personnel are permitted to carry canes and pace sticks in the performance of their duties:

a. Chief of the Air Staff’s Warrant Officer (Rosewood cane).
b. Station Warrant Officers (Black cane).
c. Command Warrant Officer (Reserves) (Ash cane)
d. Pace sticks – by NCO drill instructors actively engaged on drill instructional duties.

With the exception of CASWO and CWO (Res), canes are only to be used at individual’s parent units. Only canes of the approved pattern are to be used. The pace stick is not to be altered or defaced in any way that results in a deviation from the original pattern but it can be stained either rosewood or light mahogany.

...and of course, had he been a SWO when the picture was taken, he could still take a bollocking for carrying it off his unit (outside MoD by the looks).

So on those grounds, who will tell SWOs on Sunday that they shouldn't have their sticks downtown at the Parade.......:ok:

[London Eye]

c. Command Warrant Officer (Reserves) (Ash cane)

Might need a back up plan :sad:

[charliegolf]

(Oh - for the pedants - CASWO has a stick of office (as detailed in AP1358) as does - IIRC - the Command WO for reserves).


But not apparently, a hat, head-covering-for-the-use-of, for when outside.

CG

[high spirits]

Go to Shrivenham if you want to see how 'uniform' we are in the military....

There are more varieties of 'granny's knitted jumper' and kilts/rupert the bear stylee trousers than you can shake a stick at.

No, it's not the least bit important.

Get over yourselves you chisellers.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Just so long as we don't get any non-fighter aircrew undoing their top buttons/top inch of the flying suit zip - that really would be the end.:ok:


(actually, can't say I've ever seen that custom broken)

[charliegolf]

Leon gonna need a bigger boat!

CG

[TheWizard]

*Sarcasm mode on*
A stylish take on operational PCS including desert boots
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c100.0.403.403/p403x403/599677_10152239584105615_416410062_n.jpg
*Sarcasm mode off*

Does it really matter? Really? :hmm:

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Does it really matter? Really?

Not really, but he DOES look like like the fashion Police need to have a word....

Desert boots in town? Really......:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

It is all very well having a 'uniform' apart from the fact that you are allowed to wear out the old uniform, the new pattern is often in short supply, and the 'uniform' created by different military tailors will differ from the others while all will avere that that are rigidly adhering to the sealed pattern.

As for desert boots on parade, maybe they don't all have black :)

[dctyke]

CASWO has his own special stick. AP1358 is your friend.
Quote:
Canes and Pace Sticks

0129. Only the following uniformed personnel are permitted to carry canes and pace sticks in the performance of their duties:

a. Chief of the Air Staff’s Warrant Officer (Rosewood cane).
b. Station Warrant Officers (Black cane).
c. Command Warrant Officer (Reserves) (Ash cane)
d. Pace sticks – by NCO drill instructors actively engaged on drill instructional duties.

With the exception of CASWO and CWO (Res), canes are only to be used at individual’s parent units. Only canes of the approved pattern are to be used. The pace stick is not to be altered or defaced in any way that results in a deviation from the original pattern but it can be stained either rosewood or light mahogany.


Teeteringhead: I have to stand corrected on this, well researched. How things change in such a short time. Maybe you should submit an ammendment to para d. Pace Sticks. Surely WO's and SNCO's can also carry pacesticks when undertaking instruction. I still have mine however Mrs dctyke does not take to instruction whatsoever:O

[TheWizard]

A Non-Commissioned Officer is exactly that, regardless of seniority or rank so the AP entry is correct. No need for any amendments there. :)

[Tankertrashnav]

There are more varieties of 'granny's knitted jumper' and kilts/rupert the bear stylee trousers than you can shake a stick at.



Yes, between regiments/corps thats certainly true, but woe-betide a subaltern if he is wearing the wrong sort of granny's knitted jumper or the wrong shade of Rupert Bear trousers.

[Canadian WokkaDoctor]

Does it really matter? Really?


No, not really - just a load of BS.

CWD

[MG]

The 'desert boots' are probably the new boots to be worn with PCS, regardless. Black boots are soooo last season!

[Melchett01]

The 'desert boots' are probably the new boots to be worn with PCS, regardless. Black boots are soooo last season!

At least he wasn't wearing his desert boots with a pair of craghoppers and a puffer jacket!

[dctyke]

Wizard, a WO is not a NCO............... unless of course the official RAF website is telling porkies!

[VinRouge]

Case in point, doesn't seem to affect the discipline, ethos or ability of military units that mix and match the north face/mountain hardware fashion line.

This sort of @rse seems to Matter more to some individuals than the operational effectiveness of the individual.

Why Aircrew absolutely hate admirers and anyone pointing out mix and match uniform. Bzzzt. Irrelevant.

[muttywhitedog]

This sort of @rse seems to Matter more to some individuals than the operational effectiveness of the individual.

Agreed. I've had the misfortune to serve on a unit where appearance was everything. However, if you scratched lightly on the shiny shoes, sharp creases and gleaming stable belts, you would generally find a festering turd underneath.

[TheWizard]

Wizard, a WO is not a NCO............... unless of course the official RAF website is telling porkies!

RAF - Non-Commissioned Ranks (http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/noncommissioned.cfm)

OK, so we have a Warrant Officer listed as a Non-Comissioned rank (including Master Aircrew, again Non-Commissioned)

does this make him/her an 'officer that doesn't hold a commission but has been awarded a Warrant instead'?
or perhaps simplify it to 'Non-Commissioned Officer'?

You say potato...... :ok:

[iRaven]

Does it matter?

Of course it bl00dy matters. You can't just mix and match anything you like. Christ, we'd all end up looking like one of those Walts at Remembrance Sunday that grace our papers every now and then.

Nope, what CAS has done is an absolute disgrace - either get the Uniform Policy changed for us all or wear the uniform in a uniform fashion (the clue is in the name).

And for CAS if he reads this - Sir, if we are to be able to wear Forage Caps with PCS, then can we wear them with No 1s as well? You know how Bader et al used to wear them instead of SD hats.

Rant over

iRaven

[Blue Bottle]

does this make him/her an 'officer that doesn't hold a commission but has been awarded a Warrant instead'?
or perhaps simplify it to 'Non-Commissioned Officer'?

Or does it make make those with a Commission 'Un-Warranted'

Who care's.....

[dctyke]

OK Wizard, I'll raise your potato. Cut and pasted from the RAF Website.


Warrant Officers (WOs) are often included in the SNCO category, but actually form a separate class of their own. A Warrant Officer will have many years experience and is respected by both rank structures. Warrant Officers are addressed as "Mister" (or "Mrs", "Ms" or "Miss" for female Warrant Officers) by commissioned officers (and as "Sir" or "Ma'am" by everyone else).

[diginagain]

Case in point, doesn't seem to affect the discipline, ethos or ability of military units that mix and match the north face/mountain hardware fashion line.

This sort of @rse seems to Matter more to some individuals than the operational effectiveness of the individual.

Why Aircrew absolutely hate admirers and anyone pointing out mix and match uniform. Bzzzt. Irrelevant. My bold; not in my experience...

[Jumping_Jack]

:D:D......................

[Melchett01]

diginagain ... nice one Centurion :ok:

[teeteringhead]

And for CAS if he reads this - Sir, if we are to be able to wear Forage Caps with PCS, then can we wear them with No 1s as well? You know how Bader et al used to wear them instead of SD hats.
.... so did Peter Squire when he was chief!

[TheWizard]

OK Wizard, I'll raise your potato. Cut and pasted from the RAF Website.


Warrant Officers (WOs) are often included in the SNCO category, but actually form a separate class of their own. A Warrant Officer will have many years experience and is respected by both rank structures. Warrant Officers are addressed as "Mister" (or "Mrs", "Ms" or "Miss" for female Warrant Officers) by commissioned officers (and as "Sir" or "Ma'am" by everyone else).

OK, last attempt. Note the abbreviation used in your quote is "SNCO". So what is written is correct. Much like there are JNCOs.

So we have JNCOs, SNCOs and WOs which all come under the collective name of.......... Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs).

Anyway, best get back to work and check on some headgear and be addressed as Mister or Sir (or probably something else when I leave the room!)

[Wander00]

But then PS was a fighter pilot!

[Roland Pulfrew]

And for CAS if he reads this - Sir, if we are to be able to wear Forage Caps with PCS, then can we wear them with No 1s as well? You know how Bader et al used to wear them instead of SD hats.



And whilst we are at it, when I went through training I was told "berets were for airmen and regiment officers"; so SD hats in combat clothing! :ok: If it was good enough for the RAF in the desert air force in WWII.......

Have to agree that after (too) many years of experience, those aircrew who espouse the "I'm good at my job, it doesn't matter about the state of my uniform" are exactly the ones where more than a cursory look is required by the supervisory chain.

[VinRouge]

I raven, I suggest you turn up to your next Ccs in the new rig and a chip hat if you feel particularly affronted.

[orgASMic]

Roland

They knew how to do things properly in 'the last show':

http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib//52/media-52193/mid.jpg


HM King George inspecting the RAF Regt at Hammamet, Tunisia, 1942. No 6 dress (shorts and hosetops optional) with SD hats for HM and the officers, KD shorts and chip bags for the ORs.

[orgASMic]

The chaps on the other side knew a thing or two about desert élan:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Rommel/Rommel_350.jpg

[orgASMic]

Damned iPhone app! Arrgghhh! Just show the photos!

[Archimedes]

http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib//52/media-52193/mid.jpg

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Rommel/Rommel_350.jpg

Your wish is my etc, etc...

[orgASMic]

Much obliged

[NutLoose]

And whilst we are at it, when I went through training I was told "berets were for airmen and regiment officers"; so SD hats in combat clothing! If it was good enough for the RAF in the desert air force in WWII.......

Have to agree that after (too) many years of experience, those aircrew who espouse the "I'm good at my job, it doesn't matter about the state of my uniform" are exactly the ones where more than a cursory look is required by the supervisory chain.

And of course it also makes you stand out as a prime target..

[Wander00]

So who had MH as a flt cdr at IOT in the early 80s - only flight commander in a SD cap rather than a beret with combats!

[MG]

Yes, I had one in 85, but I can't remember his name. Ex-Shack pilot.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Wander

So who had MH as a flt cdr at IOT in the early 80s - only flight commander in a SD cap rather than a beret with combats

When I went through training it wasn't just one, all of the aircrew flt cdrs wore SD with combats; that was, of course, in the days when we could afford to have aircrew flt cdrs at IOT.

Nutloose - 'twas the cold war chap, not sure there was much of a risk of being a target :rolleyes:

[diginagain]

It's an easy mistake to make, I know, but they're only a youth club.

[glad rag]

Well...... The cadets outdid the regulars there. :D

Fast beat on the snare drum, always straightens the back, picks up the chin and digs the heels in. It's in our genes. Take the scabbard of the blade and were off !

[500N]

"Full marks to the cadets but that officer is a disgrace."

+ 1

[lj101]

Those 'officers' with the cadets are (from memory) voluntary unpaid reserves aren't they? If so, then respect to them for giving up their time for the kids. The undone shirt I agree doesn't look the best but hey, it's the thought that counts on some occasions and at least he's there.

[Wensleydale]

I enjoyed the caption at 4:00 which previewed a flypast by a "Spitefire". Perhaps describes some of the correspondants here?

[SRENNAPS]

Despite the unfortunate appearance of the Officer on parade, I am not sure I agree with the posting of the video and photograph here on PPruNe. I am sure the incident was highly embarrassing to the chap involved after the parade. I am also sure he probably had the pi$$ taken out of him if they all went down the pub later to debrief the parade. However, at least he was there and “doing his bit”:D:D

In my opinion, to mock him on the World Wide Web in this way is wrong and the items should be removed. Unless, of course, the Officer has given his permission for videos and photos of himself to be posted on the web!

[500N]

The officer is in a public place conducting a public activity.

Permission to post photos and video on the internet does
not need to be given.

And in any case, not much anyone can do about it anyway
- posting photos and videos on the internet.

We seem to be quite accepting of posting photos and video
of walts in the media and on here without permission and
taking it out of them.

[Lima Juliet]

Srenapps - the pictures are linked from the RAF website!

Anyway, CAS could have been correctly dressed if he had been wearing a flying suit, a PCS No 3 Smock and Forage Cap. Sadly he has the lightweight jacket and not the smock on. The rules for this are para 0613/0614 of the AP1358 chapter on aircrew dress.

LJ :ok:

[Guernsey Girl II]

Ding Ding, everyone back on the outrage bus:

49:47 into yesterday's Cenotaph Ceremony on BBC IPlayer; CAS has his poppy on the 'wrong side' ie his right lapel :eek:. I expect CASWO was elsewhere

[Lima Juliet]

Now he nearly got it right...if only he wasn't wearing that greatcoat! CASWO? Take another b0ll0cking!

0133. Emblems should be of conventional dimensions and are to be worn immediately above the right breast pocket of the No 1 SD jacket and in the corresponding position on warm-weather dresses, jerseys, CS95 field jacket and shirts. When worn with the greatcoat it is to be worn on the left lapel. In order to avoid damaging the waterproof materials, emblems should not be worn with the GPJ, CS95 gortex or jeltex outerwear.

My goodness, he has to do one thing right - surely it can't be that difficult, even for a RAF Copper! :ugh:

[chippy63]

Off topic, but watching the Remembrance Day parade, I noticed F/L Wales wearing white gloves. I thought only AVM and above wore those?

[TheWizard]

Ding Ding, everyone back on the outrage bus:

49:47 into yesterday's Cenotaph Ceremony on BBC IPlayer; CAS has his poppy on the 'wrong side' ie his right lapel :eek:. I expect CASWO was elsewhere


It was like that on Saturday for the Lord Mayor's parade too!

[Climebear]

Off topic, but watching the Remembrance Day parade, I noticed F/L Wales wearing white gloves. I thought only AVM and above wore those?

All officers when carrying a sword.

[Melchett01]

Dear God ... if only we put as much effort into fighting HM's enemies and politicians as we do in to hammering each other just because someone happened to be wearing a poppy on the 'wrong' side, then I reckon we'd have smashed the Afghan campaign in a couple of weeks and be twice the size we are now.

Priorities guys, priorities. I really don't think the likes of 'The Few' are sitting on their clouds criticizing where people wear their poppies. If we get so hung up on the mechanics of the thing, we run the risk of the intent and meaning getting lost.

[Courtney Mil]

Wearing the wrong hat was a bit trivial, poppy in the wrong buttonhole is right down there in the noise. Well said Melchett.

I also have to confess to never having read all the bits of regs that told me how to tie my shoelace or which socks to wear with which trousers, so could easily have committed one of those henous crimes. A certain (then) Gp Capt Bill Wra***n did once throw me out of the Bar at Coningsby one Friday night for wearing flying boots with number twos. AFTER I'd bought him a beer.

[Tankertrashnav]

Maybe it's because most of us realise we dont have and never did have a hope in hell of "smashing the Afghan campaign" that we turn our attention to these matters.

Anyway it's much more fun poking fun at senior officers' faux pas in dress matters, than considering the ongoing nightmare mess in Afghanistan.

[chippy63]

Thanks, Climebear. we didn't have swords in the UAS!!

[27mm]

Anyone got access to the highly amusing pic of Harold Wilson wearing a bonedome back-to-front?

[Shack37]

Originally posted by melchett01

Priorities guys, priorities. I really don't think the likes of 'The Few' are
sitting on their clouds criticizing where people wear their poppies. If we get
so hung up on the mechanics of the thing, we run the risk of the intent and
meaning getting lost.


Heartily agree, some of the merchants posting on here who see everything in "black and white" would have been more at home in the Luftwaffe during the B of B.

Example below, dear God, how many of us knew this. PPRuNe does have it's educational side.


Anyway, CAS could have been correctly dressed if he had been wearing a flying suit, a PCS No 3 Smock and Forage Cap. Sadly he has the ightweight jacket and not the smock on. The rules for this are para 0613/0614 of the AP1358 chapter on aircrew dress.

[Roland Pulfrew]

more at home in the Luftwaffe during the B of B.


Ahh the Luftwaffe uniform of WWII, much smarter and with so many options. Excellent SD hat, leather jackets, a nice powder blue outfit for "CAS"........ :E

[airsound]

I’m reminded of one of the many stories (some no doubt apocryphal) about Paddy Bandon, aka ACM The Earl of Bandon. Also aka The Abandoned Earl.

When he was CinC 2ATAF in Germany he was lunching at Laarbruch. After lunch he wandered into the ante-room, where he espied an FJ chap behind a paper, in uniform, but displaying bright red socks. Our Paddy tapped on the paper, and as said chap leaped to his feet, said
“What the hell d’you think yer doing, with red socks? Hmmm?”
“Well, Sir, I, I, errrr.....”
“Doncha know green is this week’s colour? Hmmm?”, sez Paddy, lifting one trizer leg to demonstrate exactly that.

airsound

[Shack37]

Ahh the Luftwaffe uniform of WWII, much smarter and with so many options.
Excellent SD hat, leather jackets, a nice powder blue outfit for "CAS"........
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif


And a big stick to chastise anyone criticising his dress code.

[Lima Juliet]

Shack

Example below, dear God, how many of us knew this. PPRuNe does have it's educational side.

Quote:
Anyway, CAS could have been correctly dressed if he had been wearing a flying suit, a PCS No 3 Smock and Forage Cap. Sadly he has the ightweight jacket and not the smock on. The rules for this are para 0613/0614 of the AP1358 chapter on aircrew dress.


I like to wear a different quirks of 'AP1358-authorised' uniform every day of the week - mostly just to p!ss off the petty SWO on my Stn :ok: (for some of the more obscure ones I print out an extract of the AP to show him when he starts off with "Sir, can I have word?" :E).

It's just the little wins in life that make it all worthwhile...:p

LJ

[Shack37]

I like to wear a different quirks of 'AP1358-authorised' uniform every
day of the week - mostly just to p!ss off the petty SWO on my Stn http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
(for some of the more obscure ones I print out an extract of the AP to show him when he starts off with "Sir, can I have word?" http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif).

It's just the little wins in life that make it all worthwhile...http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif


Now that I like:cool:

[Spit the Dog]

dctyke

"Unless you were a SWO when this was taken also take a b0ll0cking for the swo's stick."

CASWO is entitled to carry a cane which is slightly longer than a SWOs 'stick', this is what he has under his arm. Oh...and his previous post was a SWO!

[Spit the Dog]

Last week at CASWOs conference, a SWO asked CAS during an open Q&A, "Why do we have to tuck our shirts in while wearing the new PCS while the Army have theirs out?".
CAS replied; "Coz I say so!". It brought a round of applause from the rest of the audience.

[Lima Juliet]

Now that I like :D:D! Well said CAS! ^^^^

[BEagle]

A certain (then) Gp Capt Bill Wra***n did once throw me out of the Bar at Coningsby one Friday night for wearing flying boots with number twos. AFTER I'd bought him a beer.

I would have been tempted to drop a 'number two' into his beer!

Excellent SD hat, leather jackets...

The leather jackets weren't ever official issue. But, as Courtney will confirm, fighter pilots have a certain rebellious élan. This was true even amongst the pilots of the Luftwaffe:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Luftwaffe.jpg

(picture to follow when the $hite new photobucket unbuggers itself...perhaps?)

Hence the leather 'cycling jacket' became a favourite - it only took the RAF another 50 years to come up with the 'Aircrew Leather Jacket'..... I once wore mine with blues when signing on as SDO, much to the chagrin of the SWO. He sent a nastygram to the squadron, stating that black leather jackets may not be worn with blues. The boss gave it a good ignoring, as both he and I knew that our jackets weren't black, but RAF blue!

[Pontius Navigator]

I don't know why but I did glance at that AP once. I loved the photo of Peter Ruddock modelling what the best dressed air officer would wear.

The reproduction made him look ridiculously shorter and squatter than in real life.

I also remember Mike Graydon on his farewell tour of units. His wooly pully was pretty threadbare with frayed cuffs. Gave us a wonderful model to aim for.

[Spit the Dog]

BEagle..I used to babysit for Bill Wr.....s' kids when he was boss of 56, my old man got me the gig, he made me sit in his study on a hardback chair and watch a small B&W portable TV until the early hours when him and his wife would return from the mess. I was 15 at the time, many years later he came on a visit to our Sqn, (your old one), he had been long retired and I reminded him of the occasion, much to his embarrassment, especially when I told his guests I was paid £5.00.

[BEagle]

Spit, I'm amazed that he didn't charge you £5 for the privilege!

[wilnot]

Can anyone tell me what the CAS WO actually does?

And what's the CAS doing fannying about in a camouflage combat suit? Maybe he thinks the rank and file will see him as one of the lads?!

[Easy Street]

Can anyone tell me what the CAS WO actually does?

Allows the Air Force Board to kid themselves that the views and needs of the non-commissioned community are represented at the highest level.

[Mmmmnice]

he could be SH in that combination of random military kit.......certainly no-one else in the vicinity dressed the same!:ooh:

[sitigeltfel]

If it isn't a headgear gripe, its the footwear :*

The Herald E-Edition (http://herald.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx)

[Shack37]

I was reminded of this thread when I came across an old video of 37Sqn receiving new colours in 1964. Some RAF officers are wearing white uniforms, the majority are in KD. Am curious about this as in my time in Aden I never saw a white uniform worn by any other than the RN.


http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/exshack37/colours1.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/exshack37/colours2.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Shack37 ...

I would think there isn't much difference then to the orders now on No 6A SD.

AP 1358 Page 2-37/38 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/0F19E065_5056_A318_A83C614494292B03.pdf)

This order of dress is reserved for ceremonial and other formal occasions as ordered during authorised warm weather periods.

So I assume the VSO and his ADC (?) were on such a ceremonial "occasion" ... I assume those being visited were stuck with standard KD kit :confused:

Leon J is our "expert" on such matters and sure he will pitch up if I've missed something :ok:

Best regards ...

Coff.

[Al R]

dctyke

I am aware of a Sqn Ldr not a million miles from Sleaford who is entitled to a swagger stick as a badge of office.. (it looks a bit old skool Harry Potter mind).

[Shack37]

Coff
Many thanks for your reply:ok:

[The Oberon]

The GoH look a bit odd too, SD hats and shorts ? SD and longs or berets with shorts surely.

[Tricorn]

Can anyone tell me what the CAS WO actually does?

I remember asking the CASWO (I won't say which one) why the WRAF could carry a black umberella and male personnel couldn't.:O 6 months later we could!!:ok:

[langleybaston]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chippy63 http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/499902-oh-dear-another-senior-officer-headwear-error-5.html#post7516451)
Off topic, but watching the Remembrance Day parade, I noticed F/L Wales wearing white gloves. I thought only AVM and above wore those?

White gloves: All officers when carrying a sword.

Goody golly gracious ....... these gloves, white, click in at Sergeant in Foot Guards!

[Wensleydale]

I remember asking the CASWO (I won't say which one) why the WRAF could carry
a black umberella and male personnel couldn't. 6 months later we could


I heard a story of when D-WRAF visited Bruggen many years ago and immediately went on the attack with the Stn Cdr.

"And what have you done for equality on this station?"

"Well Ma'am, I have banned the WRAF from wearing KD in summer because the chaps are not allowed to".

[Ray Dahvectac]

I am aware of a Sqn Ldr not a million miles from Sleaford who is entitled to a swagger stick as a badge of office..

Only time I saw an RAF officer with a swagger stick was AM Lagesen when AOC 18Gp. His was used more to poke people in the chest when talking to them rather than as a badge of office. His AFIs at Kinloss were always "interesting", though perhaps the staish at the time didn't think so. :E

[sitigeltfel]

Only time I saw an RAF officer with a swagger stick was AM Lagesen when AOC 18Gp.I cannot remember seeing him with it when he was a mere AVM as AOC 1Gp at Bawtry. Maybe the promotion went to his head. ;)

[threeputt]

Sitigeltfel

No he was famed for that "stick", I was poked in the tummy with it once when, as AOC 1 Gp, he turned up at 50 Sqn's crewroom at Waddo for a game of pool on the table A* R***y brought back from the States.

3P:ok:

[cuefaye]

I once flew that AOC in a Hunter to carry an Annual inspection at one of his bases. After shutdown, he climbed down the ladder, took off his flying suit, and was resplendent in his No 1 uniform - complete with swagger stick!

[Xercules]

I was a Flt Cdr on the very last OCTU course at Henlow which was my first of 6 (the other 5 being in DIOT at Cranwell). There were 2 of us newbies and we were amused to find a one hour slot during our induction week set aside for stick drill.

This drill was conducted by the OCTU WO (RAF Regt) who firstly informed us that as OCTU flt cdrs we were in one of the the 2 categories entitled to carry a swagger stick, the other one being Regt gunnery instructors (if memory serves). The drill consisted of:

Marching (never walking) - stick held in its centre in the right hand which swings with the stick always horizontal held between the 4 fingers and thumb.

Saluting - Bring both arms to the side 2,3 - stick moved to be gripped under the left arm pit and with the left hand (arm crooked) and with right hand still holding stick 2, 3 - right hand back to leg position 2, 3 - salute 2, 3 - right hand back to leg 2, 3 - grip stick with right hand (left hand and armpit unchanged) 2, 3 - both hands back to leg position 2, 3 - and swing.

You, no doubt, can recognise the cadence but all this is from memory of some 34 years ago and there are, no doubt, many out there to correct me. I never again held a swagger stick in all of my 4 years at OCTU/DIOT although I had an old Army swagger stick of my Grandfather's from his days in the King's (Liverpool) Regt. To my shame, I confess, I used occasionally to find it and have sneaky drill practice but only ever in private behind closed doors.

Happy Days