Do 737-800s Fall Over?

[maninblack]

Yesterday when flying back from Hamburg we were told by the 2 legged inflight entertainment systems that we were not allowed to sit in rows 1 & 2 "because it unbalances the aircraft, the pilot told us."

Apparently the "Row 1 & 2 rule" is "In the regulations, haven't you seen it"
Where is it in Chapter 25, I can't find it but I haven't yet looked up the subchapters Green Cheese (Structure of Moon) and Easter Bunny (Existence Of)

It must be a real bummer for Boeing to launch the 737-800 only to find that if you sit people in rows 1&2 the plane falls over. I'm surprised more operators haven't complained.

Who can shed light on this one?



:D

[rubik101]

Was it April the first by any chance?

Ask yourself this; which way would it fall if there were people sat in rows 1 and 2?

Duhhh

[Stall4All2]

I think you have been had.
The only thing that comes near to what you are telling is that when an aircraft is very empty they will use "SEAT BLOCKING CARDS" to keep people of certain rows, this is as far as i know to keep the CG within limits.
But this will not only be rows 1 and 2.


Hope this helps


Grtz Stall

[flapsforty]

A most perplexing story MIB :)
As Rubik says, which way is it gonna fall??

Now the only thing I can imagine that might come close to an explanation, is something having to do with weight & balance.
It happens, on a very empty AC, that the FA's get told to make sure that nobody changes seat before take-off due W&B.

This would then have rather less to do with the aircraft falling over but rather with the seats you wanted to vacate, as this might shift the balance of the AC.

Hope this sheds some light on it for you, and rest assured that a 737-800 will not not fall over forwards when you occupy the first row. :D

Perhaps you should post this in the "questions" forum; there are kind people there, a few of whom are actually pilots on the 800 and they might be able to give you a conclusive answer.

--------------------

A 2 legged entertainment system :p

[AngleAndAttack]

maninblack wrote:

Yesterday when flying back from Hamburg we were told by the 2 legged inflight entertainment systems
-----

I would just like to tell you that our hard working CC do not deserve to be patronized in this manner.
AAA out.

[Konkordski]

That's true AAA.

And I would like to state for the record that aircrew, of course, would never patronise passengers.

What does SLF in the Prune menu stand for again? :D

[AJ]

Flown many times with Ryanair, most recently on a flight from Malmo when the plane was far from empty and 1st 2 front and rear-most row of seats were blocked off.

I have no idea why, only ever experienced it with FR a/c.

I assume the poster is referring to Ryanair.

Regards

[Surly Bondslipper]

Yes, I have seen the front rows blocked off on Ryanair and been told that is is 'to help balance the aircraft":confused: Sounds like BS to me.

[Bigears]

I've noticed it before with Ryanair- I'd assumed it was to keep the emergency exits clearer for use in the event of...
Seems a sensible thing to do- maybe the wording is so the pax dont get frightened! :rolleyes:

[wobblyprop]

ryan air CC will block seats in row 1 and 2 so that when they are empty and not busy they aren't stared at by anyoning pax.

:)

They tell you its weight and balance so you don't ask anymore awkward questions.

Wobbers

P.S. I don't work for them

[Young Paul]

If weight is further back, the aircraft burns less fuel.

[t'aint natural]

Careful, I think we have a couple of hacks fishing for a story here.

[BoarderDude]

In our company the Purser (a.k.a. Head of the 2 legged inflight entertainment systems) sometimes claims the first row for herself. (mostly on near-empty stretches). Here, she can do some of her administrative duties during the flight, without blocking the pantry. It's not supposed to happen, but it happens !

I prefer the overwing seats myself !

[blue up]

Cabin crew get pissed off if they have to sit facing passengers, from their jumpseats, in row one. Maybe they didn't want anyone sitting there when there were empty seats elsewhere?

[Mike Oscar]

A couple of points:

a) Looking for a slightly tail-heavy trim gives the optimum trim from a weight and balance perspective....aircraft slightly heavy so most fuel-efficient.

b) Some operators (including Ryanair I believe) use a 'standard seating plan' to simplify the load planning / load control process. For example, I believe Ryanair plan a particular baggage split (50%/50% for example, but I don't know the actual figs) regardless of how many bags are on board. The cabin crew then have a seating plan which will, for any given passenger load, identify which seat rows will be unusable. Saves all that faffing about with drop-line trim charts on a loadsheet.

Mike Oscar

[TightSlot]

I can't think of a tech reason for this, but can think that it might poss give the FA's a little more room to move on a low load sector, or avoids pax staring into the galley/jumpseat area.

Whatever the reason may be, what ultimately is the issue? - presumably the contract between the customer and the carrier is for transportation, by air, in a seat to the destination specified. It would appear that these conditions were complied with.

If certain seats on board are blocked off by crew for any reason whatsoever then that is not the business of passengers to query such in a fit of pique because they can't have what they want.

If I sound a little tense it is because I resent being described as "two-legged IFE". Working in the cabin I have to smile, tolerate and accept a level of abuse and ill-manners that sometimes shocks even other customers - here on PPrune I don't have to... thank God!

[password]

Perhaps it's for Crew Rest !!!!!!!!!

[JBravo]

I'm not even sure if you're all joking or not.
After boarding the CA makes a headcount and gives an indication how many pax are seated in wich compartment of the aircraft. Our F70 is divided in three sections. From front to back the first 40 seats, than the next 30 and the last 10. We receive a loadsheet with a seating, and if the actual seating has more than 5 seat-changes to other compartments in comparison to our loadsheet, we have to recalculate the trim/center of gravity. Or we let the CA tell some passengers to move to another row and we don't have to recalculate it. And we pilots our lazy arrogant twats, so we always do the last thing. Can you imagine? "No ma'am, you're not fat, but you have to move to balance the aircraft."

Not sure if the 737 has someting similar. But it would not surprise me if it did.

(edit, 40+20+10=70.... nope 40+30+10=80. Now, that's better)

[HOVIS]

Is it so that the pax can't hear the alarms going off in the flight deck?:D :D :D :D :D

As far as two legged entertainment is concerned, that seems pretty mild compared to some of the terms I have heard trolly dollies and tarts with carts call nigels, grease monkeys, SLF etc!:p


If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined. ;) :p

[Taildragger67]

Tight Slot,

Your very PPRuNe name shoots your argument down in flames.

[TightSlot]

No... It doesn't - After 22 years down the back I'm eminently qualified to make the argument. Of course I can take a joke, I'd never have made it this far otherwise.

The point made was coherent and apposite - the last two posts are not.

My user name is appropriate for an internet forum (supposedly) involving air crew: I will amend my profile details to allow for those who believe everything they read.

I may choose to take a dislike to other professions (consultants, for example), but I refrain from abusing them for in public, and expect the same courtesy in return.

Now... Anyone care to add to this thread regarding the original post?

[SimJock]

Those blocked off seats must be the £19 fare seats that I read about but can never buy ! now I know why, cos they're always blocked off !

[Stampe]

Answering the original question the 737-800 that I flew for two years in 189 Y config had no trim problems and certainly didn,t require any special seat row consideration other than a reasonable spead throughout.A very flexible,versatile commmercial aeroplane if not a firm pilots favourite.I position regularly with BA on earlier series 737 and note they sometimes block the front rows for "trim reasons"???.I,ve had the pleasure I believe of working with "Tight slot" as my cabin manager on both the 738 and other aircraft, a most excellent person and erudite P.A. orator, well qualified to speak on the subject.

[Iaingrant]

If less than 177 pax then the first two frows are blocked.
If less than 130 pax the the first 6 and last 4 are blocked.
keps the a/c in trim

[Rwy in Sight]

Some one mentionned blocking entire rows if less that full

2 comments hereQ

Why not use the trim of the aircraft to maintain the balance

And second is what happend when you have C class pax and you have to leave the central seat empty. How do you balance out do you leave another row empty?

[Stampe]

I think Iaingrant has given us the answer some operators are obviously using a standard loading scheme for ease and speed of trim calculation.My outfit never did that then again we had the luxury of one hour turn rounds when we operated them unlike the low cost guys.