Seaplane for lease

[rocket66]

Gday folks

I am looking for an amphibious seaplane, preferably a Beaver to lease. If you have one available or know where one may be please shoot me a pm.

cheers
rocket

[kevinsky18]

Hmmm well first question is where do you live and or where do you want to fly this airplane. That will help locate a machine for you.

Second question, is legal useful load important to you? If so you'll be suprised to learn that an amphib Beaver can't haul much more than an amphib 185 legally.

[Aussie Bob]

Rocket, there is an amphib Beaver for lease in the latest Aviation Trader ....

[rocket66]

Kev the aircraft is to be used in queensland. I would be interested in some 185 figures but bear in mind im hunting for an amphib.

Aussiebob i have been in contact with the owner of the one listed in the trader. The owner is a nice bloke and has a good reputation and aircraft but im yet to hear back from him so thought id stick my feelers out just to see if anything else is available.

[Piano Man]

If you want to lift weight in an amphib beaver male sure it has the 5600lbs gross weight increase.

[iPahlot]

As far as I know that Beaver is the only Amphib available for lease in OZ, the owner doesn't like low hour pilots flying his plane either.

There is an Amphib 206 for sale in the aviation trader too, have you tried contacting the owner to see if you can arrange a lease agreement?
There is another 206 that's on wheels at the moment but it is an amphib, maybe the operator is willing to lease it to you, however I haven't heard to many good things from people who flew her as an amphib. :}

What sort of hours would you be willing to commit to? Owners usually want a minimum hour commitment on a lease agreement.

Also, the general hours that you see thrown around for insurance purposes is 50 hours plus 200 water landings.

Maybe Piano Man will part with ZDA seeing he's blasting around in a shiny van now :E

[rocket66]

Its one of those sticky situations. I have asked an experienced float operator to fly the machine but he doesnt want to commit unless we can get the beaver. Im not sure the owner wants to lease the aircraft unless he knows this person is going to commi
.
I can totally understand the owners position on low hour drivers. Beavers are very expensive machines and nothing ****s me more than seeing them being mistreated.

Being a startup operation Id be happy initially with 20-25 per month. What would better is if we could operate for the first 4-6 months without any minimum hours simply because its an unknown to begin with. ZDA would be great Pianoman

[Flyer069]

Red Baron Seaplanes is for sale.. Based out of Townsville been operating for 6 years and very popular.

[OCTA]

You will find it very hard to get a floatplane on lease, I believe the Beaver is the only one in the country and is currently out with some major maintenance issues.

An amphib 185 won't be much use to you and an amphib Beaver is better but still restrictive. Are you planning operations in sheltered water or open water?

[rocket66]

The beaver is getting some TLC at the moment. Ops will be in smooth and partially smooth waters without letting the cat out of the bag too much.

I really need an amphib beaver for a few reasons. The first is ofcourse the weight it can llift as an amphib another is its stregth and last is because the 985 makes people stop and look up because of that round sound.

[Piano Man]

As OCTA said rocket it is more than just TLC :(

For a start up operation, unless it is truly needed, then something smaller and cheaper to run would be a better bet. Ask yourself can you guarantee to fill at least for bums on seats for a flight to make your money.

Most smaller operations use the likes of a 206 or 185 as they are cheaper to run. Ignoring tassie, most operators with beavers have a mixed beaver/caravan fleet as they have the established market.

I love flying the old beavers but they are expensive to run!

[rocket66]

Pianoman, there really isnt anywhere to base a straight float and the trouble is as you know when you put an amphib kit on a cessna they can then lift sweet FA. Ive put together my budget and we can make money with four on ay planned flight. To remain competitive we wont have any kind of shop, instead booking will be made via our website or phone.

Its really one of those things, demographics will only get you so far so there comes a point where you have to suck it and see. I have receiveda lot of po sitive feedback from the publi, local business and 3 local MPs.

Would love to have ZDA butI doubt very much you would part with it!

[kevinsky18]

I have several hundred hours on both amphib beavers and amphib 185.

the beaver will haul a much bigger load than the 185. BUT that beaver load is way over legal gross.

Trust me an amphib beaver and an amphib 185 if the W&B are accurate carry darn near the same legal usefull load. And that is with the 5600 upgross.

The Beaver has the much bigger cabin and can carry an extra passenger. It will also handle slightly bigger waves.

If you look at a Beaver on Wipline 6000 amphibs and the 5600 upgross you will find, if it has been weighed accurately, that it has a legal usefull load of somewhere around 1100lbs.

A 185 on Wipline or Aerocets and with the upgross to 3500lbs will have about the same 1000-1100lb useful load.

The beaver will burn twice as much fuel so on the long runs the 185 actually hauls more.

Where the Beaver gets its great rep as heavy lifter is from running over gross weight. If you're comfy flying overloaded then yes the Beaver will out haul the 185. If you aren't and want to play by the rules then they both haul the same load and on long runs the 185 can haul more as it needs half the fuel of the DHC-2

[Piano Man]

A useful load of 1100lbs? So 500kgs?

I have to disagree on that one. With 5600lb kit the beaver has a takeoff weight of 2545kg. Having flown no amphib over 1890kg once weighed, surely that's more than a 500 kilo useful load?

[poonpossum]

To remain competitive we wont have any kind of shop, instead booking will be made via our website or phone.

Correct me if I am wrong as I don't have one. But, I thought that one requirement of an AOC is to have some sort of fixed base of operations?

[kevinsky18]

Piano Man,

Even if we go with your numbers that's actually only 655kg. 5600lbs/2.2 = 2545kg - 1890kg = 655kg

If that is what your plane's weight and balance says then ya you're legal for 655kg and really we aren't too far apart so I stand by 1100lb / 500kg statement.

This is based on my experience with a company that had a couple of very serious accidents and part of their corrective actions they had all three amphib beavers reweighed by an qualified and independent company. They all gained a couple hundred pounds even though some had been weighed only a couple of years before.

When it comes to Beavers there is always a push to underweigh them to get more usefull load, becuase everyone knows they can haul well over legal gross weight. Maybe you had an exceptionally light beaver but it is also possible that it is just one of the 90% of beavers that are underweighed.

[Flyer069]

Do your self a favor buy an existing business, lots and lots of extra un planned hurdles to jump.
All the hard work has been done, walk in and start making money immediately.

[rocket66]

Flyer your not the owner of the Townsville operation are tou?? Heres a good question I was wracking my brain over. What unexpected expenses could I expect to appear?

Rocket

[Flyer069]

If I could tell you what they were they wouldn't be hidden!

[SmoothCriminal]

PM me

I possibly have a caravan ( all decked up )

Smoothieeeeee:ok:

[Ejector]

KevinSky, While I agree with your sentiment, I don't agree with, "It will also handle slightly bigger waves."

A Beaver can take much bigger, though the Whip Anphibs are not good in big water though. Surprisingly, EDO 4930's straights can take much bigger. :ok:

(Talking open ocean swell here)

[Fantome]

Not much of a useful contribution to the discussion, but when the late Vic Walton was giving me some tips on payload when I had my own Beaver (IDQ) on line with him at Palm Beach, one memorable morning he snarled as the sea began lapping the float decks - 'Listen, I told you before muggins, if she'll float she'll fly.'

[rocket66]

Fantome what happened to your beaver? I found pictures of it on the roof of a container in pieces??

Another question folks, do casa grant approvals for pilots to give specific ratings without having an instructor rating? For instance could an experienced float guy obtain an approval to conduct float ratings without an instrctor rating?

Rocket

[Piano Man]

To answer your question rocket66:

Yes you can!

[iPahlot]

Kevin, you should come over to Australia and we'll show you what the Beaver can handle :E
The Beaver will take chop that would see stuff falling off a Cessna left right and centre. As Fantome mentioned, the EDO's will take more than the Wipaires, I hear the PK's are quite good at handling the chop too.

But back on topic, Rocket, I'd seriously look at operating a straight float beaver, the insurance excesses, the hours you will need to pay for to get insurable on an amphib might make any investment in getting a custom trailer and dock hire seem insignificant.

Also, straight floaties will simply carry more.

To put it in context (actual figures)
Amphib with Wipaires - useful load 573KG
Straight float Beaver with EDO's - useful load 895KG

Both burn ~100L per hour, so throw yourself (guessing you're ~85kg) in there and fill the front tank (132L) gives you 394KG and 701KG respectively.

Unless you're moving some very small asians, gymnasts or children you won't fill all 7 seats on an amphib. The Straighty on the other hand will almost always become too tight for any persons that would exceed the weight limit (forgetting about rear CoG issues).

The same could be said for straight float 185 or 206 vs. amphib Beaver, the numbers aren't going to swing too far in to the Beavers favor.

Just my two cents

[Piano Man]

Further to ipahlot, that amphib figure is for no 5600lb increase. ZDA and AWI are both increased weight machines and can get another 100+ kgs.

[iPahlot]

Further to ipahlot, that amphib figure is for no 5600lb increase. ZDA and AWI are both increased weight machines and can get another 100+ kgs.


The machine Rocket was referring to didn't have that uplift kit :E

Just to clarify, those figures were based on a straight float Beaver with a MTOW of 2495 and an Amphib of 2435.

Now we of course could get in to another discussion of Beavers with various uplift kits, firewall mods, door mods, floats etc, but that sounds more like a conversation one would have to have over a few beers :ok:

[rocket66]

So guys what does one have to do to apply for such a rating?? Just phone CASA and pay some proverbial fee or is there training syllabus to submit for approval etc etc then a test flight etc etc before they give you the aplroval??

Rocket

[iPahlot]

Rocket, I'm not certain of the complete process but know someone that was looking at it and you are pretty much on the money. You'll need to come up with a training syllabus, apply to CASA for a training approval and have it all added to your AOC and Ops manual, then a test with an FOI plus renewals.

There are a few members on this forum that'll be more qualified to answer the question in more detail. Or if you were really serious you could just pick up the phone and talk to CASA?

[rocket66]

Hi all

I thought I would revive this thread since it has been a while. I am still hunting around for a DHC2 with a set of amphibs. If anyone knows of one around please shoot me a PM. They're super difficult to get a hold of here in Aus unless you have the funds to buy one.

Alternatively, if anyone is interested in buying one for us to lease please shoot us a message :}

Cheers
rocket