Question about my ATPL Training program JAR-FCL

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

Hello everyone :)

After getting my PPL(A) , I recently started ATPL(A) studies in the same FTO.(currently only ground studies, will start flying soon)
However, I am not so happy about my training program at this moment.
I will explain the situation

I got my PPL in the same FTO as I am learning for ATPL right now. It was called a Modular PPL course, and all the missions were the same as those in the PPL phase of an ATPL course. My total hours is now 98, most of them on the FTO's aircraft.
According to JAR-FCL, I get 40 hours credit for my ATPL flying because I have a PPL with >80 hours.
"3.1. Credits for holders of a PPL(A) license
In the case of a PPL(A) or PPL(H) entrant, 50% of the aircraft hours flown by the entrant prior to the course may be credited towards the required flight instruction (JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1) and Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1), paragraph 13) up to a credit of 40 hours flying experience or 45 hours if an aeroplane night flying qualification has been obtained, of which up to 20 hours may be dual instruction. This credit for the hours flown shall be at the discretion of the FTO and entered into the applicant’s training record."

Now, for the flying of the ATPL(A) course, these are the minimum requirements:
- 195 hours of flying training, to include all progress tests, of which up to 55 hours for the entire course may be instrument ground time. Within the total of 195 hours, applicants shall complete at least:
a) 95 hours of dual instruction of which up to 55 hours may be instrument ground time;
b) 70 hours as pilot-in-command including VFR flight and instrument flight time as student pilot-in-command (SPIC). (SPIC time shall be credited as pilot-in- command time, unless the flight instructor had to influence or control any part of the flight. A ground de-briefing by the flight instructor does not affect the crediting as pilot-in-command time);
c) 50 hours of cross-country flight as pilot-in-command including a VFR cross- country flight totalling at least 540 km (300 NM) in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made;
d) 5 hours flight time in aeroplanes shall be completed at night comprising 3 hours of dual instruction including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and 5 solo take-offs and 5 solo full stop landings; and
e) 115 hours of instrument time comprising, at least:
(i) 50 hours of instrument flight instruction of which up to 25 hours may be
instrument ground time in a FNPT I, or 40 hours if the instrument
ground training is conducted in an FNPT II or flight simulator;
(ii) 20 hours as SPIC; and
(iii) 15 hours multi-crew co-operation, for which a flight simulator or FNPT II
may be used.

Those are the facts, now my problem:
My FTO has credited me 20 hrs PIC VFR and 20hrs Dual VFR and has removed some briefings from my training plan.

However, they now plan me for briefings about VFR flying, circuit training, basic flying maneuvers... :confused: :confused: :ugh:
I would rather spend the time on IFR flight training or at least solo Navigations than on circuit training with my instructor...

So do I need to have the briefings and the VFR flying if I already had those in my Modular PPL 10 months ago? Or can I legally just fly the 300NM Xcountry, some VFR navigations and then start IR/ME/CPL ? Thats what I would like to do...

I hope someone can help me out with this... :confused:

[RTN11]

Your post is a little confusing, are you saying you have a PPL(A) but have now started an integrated course to get a CPL(A) and IR(A)?

If this is the case then you will only be credited whatever the FTO feels has been covered enough, anything else you will have to repeat, as it says, at their discretion.

There is nothing stopping you pursuing a modular CPL/IR(A), as you already have a PPL(A) this is the first building block.

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

That is correct. They talked me into going Integrated instead of modular, so I believe they can at least understand that I have enough VFR skills to move on...

So if my FTO is okay with it, I can start IFR without redoing VFR briefings/missions?

[RTN11]

You have to cover the full syllabus, this will include a fair amount of VFR flying. Although you covered this at PPL, even if you were going a modular route you would still have to do at least 15 hours visual flying, and you are tested to a far higher standard than you were at PPL.

You may see it as redoing, while your school will see it as advancing.

Why did you change from modular to integrated with the same school having already completed so much training? Seems an awful lot of money just to repeat training.

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

Because I was only aged 16 at the time I started PPL training. I couldn't start an integrated course yet.

[BillieBob]

You have answered your own question in the quote from JAR-FCL 1 that you posted3.1. Credits for holders of a PPL(A) license
In the case of a PPL(A) or PPL(H) entrant, 50% of the aircraft hours flown by the entrant prior to the course may be credited towards the required flight instruction (JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1) and Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.165(a)(1), paragraph 13) up to a credit of 40 hours flying experience or 45 hours if an aeroplane night flying qualification has been obtained, of which up to 20 hours may be dual instruction. This credit for the hours flown shall be at the discretion of the FTO and entered into the applicant’s training record.It is entirely up to the FTO what credit is awarded and how the remaining time is used. As RTN11 stated, even with a credit of flying hours you still have to cover every exercise in the syllabus; you just (hopefully) will need to spend less time on each of the exercises that you have flown before in order to reach the required standard.

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

Thanks for your reply.
I talked with my Head of training and he said that they made up a program for me which I need to follow. I am still awaiting a phone call of my FTO's CEO. Seems like I would have better continued the modular route..:ugh:

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

Pfff:(
I have 98hours , about 75PIC.

[PrivatePilotDA40NG]

I called the CEO about the situation, he does not want to talk about it. He also becomes uncomfortable when I talk about modular routes and when I ask why they credit PIC time instead of dual time...
Should I go modular now that I still can?...

[RTN11]

He also becomes uncomfortable when I talk about modular routes and when I ask why they credit PIC time instead of dual time...

But from your own quote you've been credited as much dual time as you could:

up to a credit of 40 hours flying experience or 45 hours if an aeroplane night flying qualification has been obtained, of which up to 20 hours may be dual instruction

My FTO has credited me 20 hrs PIC VFR and 20hrs Dual VFR

Seems like you're in over your head a little and haven't done enough research. Who's funding this adventure?

A fair number of people get their PPL then still go on to complete an integrated course. This is usually because they believe that it is a better standard of training, or it increases their chance of employment. Very few will complete a PPL and then do an integrated course at the same school, it rather seems that your school has convinced you to part with a large sum of money, rather than have you simply continue the modular building blocks you have started.

It may not be too late to cut and run from your integrated course, depending on how much you paid up front and how much flying you have done. You will have great difficultly crediting any flying you've done so far on the integrated course for anything modular, so this will still cost more in the long run, and you may find yourself repeating some groundschool too.