View Full Version : Avantair Not Operating
Moretimeoff
27th Oct 2012, 19:49
Here's the latest (http://www.ainonline.com/comment/2476#comment-2476)
This press release was just issued by Avantair a few minutes ago:
AVANTAIR UPDATE ON VOLUNTARY STAND-DOWN OF OPERATIONS
CLEARWATER, Fla. – October 25, 2012 — Avantair, Inc. (OTCBB: AAIR), today announced the company is continuing to stand down operations and engaging top aviation experts to help complete a thorough examination of its fleet of nearly 60 Piaggio Avanti aircraft, and a comprehensive review of records and supporting maintenance documentation. The voluntary action is being taken in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration.
“For the past week, we have been undertaking extensive inspections of our fleet and our operating procedures. These inspections and other actions are still underway. But this further action is necessary to ensure every aspect of our operation will allow us to reach the next level of safety and performance and exceed the highest industry standard,” said Steven Santo, Avantair CEO.
“We are enhancing our maintenance and operational infrastructure so that it surpasses every standard that applies to the aircraft we fly. With our new processes and procedures, Avantair will satisfy the heightened requirements governing the largest aircraft types in our industry. When we resume operations, we will have the most reliable fleet in our industry embracing the highest standards in aviation,” said Mr. Santo.
Avantair has retained safety expert Nick Sabatini to oversee the project. Mr. Sabatini previously was the top career official at the FAA.
“We know this is an extremely difficult period for our loyal employees and frustrating to our devoted owners,” said Mr. Santo. “We are grateful for their understanding and patience as we work through this important process. We are confident we are laying the groundwork necessary to offer outstanding service and reliability going forward.
What is a "voluntary action in cooperation with the FAA"? Doesn't sound voluntary at all.
And what caused the stand down? I heard mx installed an elevator flight control upside down recently. Is that it?
LGW Vulture
27th Oct 2012, 21:23
Very interesting. I do quite a bit of work with these guys and I'm fairly sure they want to do things properly, they've had a few moments of late they'd like to forget but overall, they are a committed bunch.
Mr. Fuller has got pot loads and the commitment to go with it I would think. Hopefully they'll emerge much stronger.
No RYR for me
29th Oct 2012, 16:09
Let's face it you don't stop to "up" the quality of your operation.... The only reason you stop it is when you expect somebody else to do it for you and don't want the embarrassment... A petty as I like their concept and aircraft.. (ok a bit noisy for the neighbours )......
Sillypeoples
29th Oct 2012, 23:59
Corporate speak -
Could mean any number of things...that the FAA has found some things...problems with management, pilots, maintenance...they mismanaged, ran out of money...
I know that they are one of the outfits that seemed to pull of the bottom of the resume pile....
Reminds a little of Hawker...after all these years of doing well...then, going broke...like GM....so maybe they fleeced the company after the hype...after the investors jumped in...couldn't make it in tough times.....
Either way, it's one of those corporate statements meant to put some spin on things without spelling out what is going on.
flydive1
30th Oct 2012, 09:01
From Avweb
Avanti Flies Two Legs Missing Control Surface
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/piaggioavanti.jpg
On July 28, a Piaggio Avanti operated by Avantair flew two legs (one with passengers) without a left elevator, and now the company has grounded its entire fleet as it works with the FAA through a safety review. Avantair is based out of St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport, Florida, and operates almost 60 Piaggio Avanti turboprop pusher aircraft in fractional ownership programs. According to the NTSB, the incident aircraft departed Camarillo Airport in California, travelled to San Diego, where it picked up two passengers, and then flew to Henderson Executive Airport in Nevada. The missing elevator was discovered by airport personnel at Camarillo, three days later. The pilots did report some peculiarities.
According to the NTSB, after the crew landed the plane in Nevada they had a look at the tail and discovered that the left elevator was missing. The Avanti has three lifting surfaces: the main wing, a forward canard and a lifting stabilizer mounted atop the vertical fin at the rear of the aircraft. The crew reported to the NTSB they had some control issues, including the need to apply more-than-normal back pressure during landing in Nevada, but said there didn't appear to be anything unusual about the San Diego leg. Avantair has hired former FAA official Nick Sabatini to oversee the operator's safety inspections and a review of its maintenance records. Some workers at the company have been furloughed while the safety review is ongoing. Avantair has contacted its customers about the temporary shutdown of operations.
Cseries
5th Nov 2012, 01:04
Does anybody have any further updates on the situation?
Sillypeoples
5th Nov 2012, 23:22
Nothing concrete.....from what I have read it seems they are having financial problems.......
My guess is they would have checked the fleet by now for some endemic tail issue, so if they aren't flying it's something else.
Reminds of the Alaska Jackscrew thing....they fleet was checked and dealt with in no time....
The good news, I think, might be some previous fractional guys might be looking at their own planes by now.....
Sillypeoples
5th Nov 2012, 23:46
Nothing concrete.....from what I have read it seems they are having financial problems.......
My guess is they would have checked the fleet by now for some endemic tail issue, so if they aren't flying it's something else.
Reminds of the Alaska Jackscrew thing....they fleet was checked and dealt with in no time....
The good news, I think, might be some previous fractional guys might be looking at their own planes by now.....
westhawk
6th Nov 2012, 04:04
According to an AIN online news blurb dated last week, the "safety review" was still ongoing as of 10/29/12. Also according to this same source, all pilots and ops staff have been placed on furlough.
Believe as you please, but furloughing the ops and pilot employees is not indicative of a quick return to operations. We'll see.
LGW Vulture
2nd Jul 2013, 18:48
Oh dear. Doesn't seem to have worked out well at all for Avantair:
Avantair Temporally Shuts Down Operations, Faces A Number Of Legal Battles (http://avstop.com/July_2013/avantair_temporally_shuts_down_operations_faces_a_number_of_ legal_battles.htm) :uhoh:
Teldorserious
2nd Jul 2013, 20:55
Even with Buffet money in Netjets, I could see this happening there.
Fractional is a pyramid scheme, where the biz owners really don't own an aircraft, and they find this out right quick when the company shuts it's doors and owner is outside looking for 'his plane'.
cldrvr
2nd Jul 2013, 21:22
Fractional is a pyramid scheme, where the biz owners really don't own an
aircraft, and they find this out right quick when the company shuts it's doors
and owner is outside looking for 'his plane'.
How wrong can you be, with NJ, you do own a share of a particular aircraft and even have the serial number of that aircraft on your paperwork. The taxman also sees it as ownership and gives you the tax benefits accordingly. IF NJ would ever fold, you and your fellow owners of your aircraft can just fly the thing away.
When it comes to your "shares", your 16th share may well mount up to 24 owners per airframe, I can't comment on that, but it seems highly unlikely that uncle Warren would sink that low.
Teldorserious
3rd Jul 2013, 15:42
Cldrvr -
You don't understand the structure of fractional. The tax dodge gives you an N-Number, but Avantair/NJ also owns a piece of the aircraft as well. So when the banks, creditors step in for their 'piece'..the likely hood of you and the other owners, of that aircraft, likely a list you will never see, getting together with pitchforks and torches, storming the aircraft hanger for 'your' aircraft are about zero.
You will get in line after a legal battle to find you your aircraft, which likely now needs engines, glass, maintenance...and where are the logs, that's right, locked up in a legal battle with the creditors.
These things tend to be messy as well as every mechanic, shop, ect will put a lien on the plane, employees looking for past due wages.
Anyway, if you want 'proof' of what I am saying, try to find one owner at Avantair that has 'his' plane out of the deal. This will probably be locked up for years with the owners losing their investments, not to mention no being able to fly and conduct business.
Nothing to add, everything has its limits, this is one. However there is a lot of pros in timeshare, as long as it suits the customer...
AU-501
3rd Jul 2013, 18:07
Hello all,
Lots of assumptions being made on this post. When were the flight surface(s?) detached (Preflight, Inflight or Post flight)? With this information given
( i.e. reliable and actual) I guess, then we can speculate the causes and make some comment that will affect safety.
Any one else with further info?
Cheers
Teldorserious
6th Jul 2013, 17:00
Well the good news is that you a bunch of owners that thought they could end run charter and full aircraft ownership, and they got seriously rolled over for that decision.
Now they have to pay through the nose for charter or go buy a plane, and surprise, surprise, actually hire a pilot that can manage and fly some simple little turboprop.
LASJayhawk
8th Jul 2013, 05:40
They flew Camarillo to San Diego picked up pax then flew to KHND.
after the pax left and they were securing the plane, they noticed the eleavator missing.
It was found on the field at Camarillo.
flynowpaylater
8th Jul 2013, 08:05
actually hire a pilot that can manage and fly some simple little
turboprop.
Is it simple for a pilot to manage a turbo prop then?
Heli-News
13th Sep 2013, 15:27
A bankruptcy hearing for Avantair held yesterday in Tampa, Fla., brought some needed good news for share owners of the 56 ex-Avantair Piaggio Avantis, with the Italian OEM unveiling a path for them to get their aircraft back in the sky.
Owners of ex-Avantair Aircraft See Path Forward | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ainalerts/2013-09-12/owners-ex-avantair-aircraft-see-path-forward)
Tinstaafl
14th Sep 2013, 19:20
Bloody hell. 40 man hours + another 130 man hours from Piaggio technicians. How could Avantair stuff up their maintenance so badly?