Gulf Air Business

[55Jay]

Anyone here flown Gulf Air biz class from Bahrain to Bangkok lately?

I would like to know if the cabin refurbishment/new business class seats were put in the A330s, which was the advertised plan back in 2010.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

been BAH-LHR on A330 this year and the cabin was old, seat didnt lie flat for sure, and IFE was well dated

[55Jay]

Thanks. They have 6 330s left so hoping against hope that maybe one or some had been refitted before the purse strings snapped shut again.

[John21UK]

LHR flights are mostly operated by A9C-KA/B/C/D IIRC, same for Bangkok. I believe some (KA and...) are the ones with the old business class and they have more seats in Falcon Gold.

This is what you meant: A9C-KA:
Welcome to Flickr! (http://m.flickr.com/photos/15545136@N06/6601835151/in/search?q=a9c-Ka&prefs_photos=1&mt=all&w=15545136@N06)

Here's a pic of that new Falcon Gold Business Class on the A330 I flew on. Welcome to Flickr! (http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/15545136@N06/7678807342/)

[55Jay]

John,

Thanks very much for responding and the photo link. Been on 319/320s only inter-gulf these days having done a runner to QR for my BKK runs nearly 2 years ago. Guess it just won't matter as whichever GF bird is on the jetway for this BKK trip...is what it is. I carry a small tool kit & roll of masking tape, ya' never know. LOL.

[nsiotto]

I took a business class flight with GF from DXB to FCO (Rome) via BAH with Gulf Air twice, one in August and the second one in September. In Aug '12 the flight was operated with an A321 with latest state of the art flat bed seatings and entertainment. To my despair in Sept (one month later) the A321 was replaced by a long range A320. Well, my mood changed when I entered on-board the flight and discovered also this craft was fitted with full flat seats as comfy as the ones in the 321. So the flight was superb from all point of views. For the short haul flight (such as the one I took from and to Dubai/Bahrain) they mostly use older aircraft but I guess for up to three hours the flat bed seats are really a waste in my opinion.

My last flight with GF (short haul) was two days back and I took the opportunity to ask one of the flight attendants what type of seating GF offers between BAH and BKK. He answered that now out of 6 A330-200, two are still fitted with the old business class seating so mostly it depends on luck to find the ones with the latest lie flat beds seats. However compared to last year, the refurbishing of the fleet is still ongoing and soon all long haul flights will offer lie flat beds.

The business class lounge at BAH airport is awsome, can't ask for more honestly. But the only bothering issue is the transfer's security control, during night transfers it has mostly long queues (fast although). But if the plane is fitted with flat seat beds (especially for the night trips) then this is really a minor issue in my opinion.

[55Jay]

Nsiotto,

You nailed my ratio question exactly on the BKK route, thank you, and that you got it right from cabin crew...even better.

Due to financial/political problems with GF, I assumed the 330 upgrades had been stopped. I defected to Qatar Airways (QR) 2 yrs ago for my BKK runs, (still GF for intra-Gulf/DXB, etc) so I have lost touch with GF's A330 status.

If 4 of 6 have indeed gotten the facelift, then those aren't bad odds for now. Hopefully the rest will get it. I would absolutely switch back full time to GF for BAH-BKK if I knew the hard product (at least) was consistent.

GF's in a heap of trouble right now. Mere survival is the question. Every regional A319/20 that lands in Bahrain whisks away former GF customers for both intra-gulf and onward long-hauls.

I hope Parliment and Shura council understand that if they want GF to survive, they'll have to (continue to) spend their way out of it. Sure, cut out the crap in the back office and make smart/better business decisions, but the front end of the business needs to expand; or, at minimum, do REALLY WELL at delivering hard and soft product on whatever's left of GF's future medium/long range flights. Feel like the 2 new 320ERs are an unmistakable sign of GF's strategy, but don't think they have the legs for BAH-BKK without stopping for a drink in UAE/Oman, or India, thus may not be viable.

[nsiotto]

Being stationed in Dubai and having lived in Bahrain for almost 5 years I can give some more background on your post. GF has been in trouble for several reasons and not just for one. Having lost all other partners (UAE, Kuwait, Qatar and Oman) and the fact that now is the national airline of Bahrain only maybe was a good thing because when you are the only one to bail out then you are more attentive on the management, which obviously wasn't the case in the past. The Bahrain government was very clear, Gulf Air will stay, period! In the Gulf, unlike with EU's policies, governments can finance and bail out companies they own endlessly. In fact this is what has happened a couple of weeks back. Bahrain's King has approved to inject 491 M USD into the airline: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/bahrain-s-king-oks-491m-in-funding-gulf-air-476442.html

I think the intentions are backed not only by the fact that Bahrain needs an own national airline, but also due to the recent encouraging figures in passenger's growth due to a better strategy and management by it's present CEO, Samer Majali whom, in my opinion is the best man for the job (he has rescued also Royal Jordanian from bankruptcy some years back).

The strategy is good. Cut on unessential pampering and frills, merge two classes (business and first), place newer smaller and efficient planes for strategic routes and cut unprofitable destinations. This to say that GF in my opinion is in a better position to recovery today then in the last 4 or 5 years when it was losing 1$ million a day. The increase in passengers in the first half of 2012 by 14% is a proof the management and the strategies might be correct.

I am now travelling GF for most of my destinations (when available) although I am based in Dubai because Emirates's fares are the highest for passengers starting their journey from Dubai. For instance my trips to Italy in J class with GF were priced at approx 1250 EUR while in EK the cost would have been three times.

In reply to your comment in regards to the 320ERs for long range for sure can't fly directly to BKK, but don't forget there's an interim between the 320 and 330 which is the 321 which can fly for over eight hours in a single shot, and the one I flown this summer was the latest state of the art comfort in all classes with lie flat beds in J class and an outstanding entertainment system.

By the end of this month I should fly to BKK and I intend to book with GF. So once my trip is over I will be able to give a feedback on the plane, whether they have managed to upgrade the seating for said route or not. Being a night flight I hope yes of course :zzz: but the fare in J class is so low that I am ready to take the risk.

[ExXB]

although I am based in Dubai because Emirates's fares are the highest for passengers starting their journey from Dubai

In this industry it is normal for an airline not to sh*t in its own backyard. You'll find the same with BA in the UK, AF in France, LX in Switzerland, etc.

These airlines can, and do, get a premium for their product. If people won't buy at their prices then they will come down. The perfect price for any airline is the one that people will pay, even with a little bitching.

[nsiotto]

If people won't buy at their prices then they will come down.

Logically and ideally you would be right, but I'm afraid in this case maybe not, or at least not entirely.

Let me please clarify my point with a practical example...

I am now on GF website and sourced for a fare DXB-BAH-FCO return ticket in business class. Dept. 27/Nov and back on 02/Dec. There are three fares options, the cheapest being of approx 1200 EUR. Now I will change the origin to Bahrain, so direct flight BAH-FCO: 1,930 EUR. Other airlines do exactly the same, Qatar Airways, Emirates, etc. No one seems interested in the passengers from their own country of origin which should be the opposite way around but the reality is that direct flight passengers are heavily penalized for some reasons. Can anyone explain the logic behind this pricing system which seems well shared among all carriers?

[55Jay]

Indeed, I was around here in those days, could still use the ashtrays too.

Not that I intended to debate but I do depart from your characterization that this government will provide endless bail outs to GF or that bail out is the right term to use at all.

GF has been and is a government welfare case which requires consistent operating cash supplementals, not a one off bail out, and it's clear endless quantity and value is not what the government wants to do anymore.

What your ref missed was the amount GF asked for, got turned down, then was offered a fraction of the original amount - a drop in the bucket really. That is not endless and in fact sent the exact message inteded and was a long overdue, sorely needed bitch slap for GF if they ever hope to be solvent.

I agree with you the CEO is probably best (and he happens to be here already) to unscrew this mess, if he's allowed to. At present, he's trying to do what's needed with one hand tied around his bollocks. Actually, the bitch slap may of been just what the Dr. ordered, not a slight on him personally, but he can use it to his advantage to a certain extent. As I've opined elsewhere, it's gunna get uglier before it gets better and between now and that possibility, lots of uphill both ways in the snow, for the CEO. Remove all sharp objects from his office, please. LOL, just kidding.

Thanks again for answering my query, and hope you get the cool breezes in Dubai that we've been enjoying up here before you're off to LOS - and yes, love to hear back on which 330 you get going over. I'll be flying 1st week of December.

[nsiotto]

Recently I have read that the airline currently is suffering losses of approx 700k USD a day and the aim is to bring that loss down to approx 500k by 2017. I believe a similar statement implies that the government every couple of years will need to inject cash and of course each time won't come easy but with tough negotiations such as the one you have mentioned. But also let's not forget that airlines aren't only revenue (such as it is in the case of Emirates) but these are also a very important vehicle to boost economy into the country in many ways. So if the overall idea is seen into this prospective I believe, not without pain of course, the government will be providing cash for several years to come. They can't afford not to have a national airline, I am just copying their statement.

[dubh12000]

I heard a rumour that they have tendered an IFE re-fit on 4 of the A330s

[55Jay]

Thanks for IFE heads up, should be fun to watch, like any tender process in Bahrain.

So, your rumor seems to say the 330s will continue to be the work horses, as if any new orders will come through - maybe some. Thought I read somewhere 2 330s are 12.+ years old, balance 9 years on them.

Hey, I think I'll rename this thread "Gulf Air (Customer) Developments".
Nice to keep up on what's going on with GF from our pax/SLF point of view, especially these days.

[ExXB]

I am now on GF website and sourced for a fare DXB-BAH-FCO return ticket in business class. Dept. 27/Nov and back on 02/Dec. There are three fares options, the cheapest being of approx 1200 EUR. Now I will change the origin to Bahrain, so direct flight BAH-FCO: 1,930 EUR. Other airlines do exactly the same, Qatar Airways, Emirates, etc. No one seems interested in the passengers from their own country of origin which should be the opposite way around but the reality is that direct flight passengers are heavily penalized for some reasons. Can anyone explain the logic behind this pricing system which seems well shared among all carriers?

You are thinking that since it is further and there are more flights flying DXB-BAH-FCO than BAH-FCO the first should be more expensive (or not cheaper) than the second. If GF priced on a cost plus basis this is what you would get. But if GF did that they would likely get little or no sales out of DXB.

In pricing DXB-FCO GF has to take into account what is happening in that market, not the market from BAH. They look at the prices charged by EK and AZ(?? not sure they fly), and the prices charged by EY and all the six freedom airlines in the market. i.e. QR KU SV RJ ME MS TK CY etc. They've decided that the best price for them is €1200. Anything higher than they don't get the business, anything lower they spill revenue.

Their only real decision is if they want the traffic at €1200. Will it displace BAH origin passengers willing to pay €1930? Will it displace other origins that might have higher fares. Using Revenue Management they will open/close availability to hopefully generate the perfect mix - all seats sold at the maximum possible revenue.

[John21UK]

If I'm right the A330's with the old business class are the ones not doing the BKK/LHR runs.

There are 9 A330's in service right now.

A9C-MA/B/C/D. I believe these are the ones now with the new Falcon Gold etc. You'll find them on LHR/BKK and sometimes MNL.
A9C-KE/KF is in a high density layout operating Manila/Lahore/Cairo. (250 seats IIRC)
A9C-G/H/I do mostly Karachi/Cairo/Dubai/Jeddah/Riyadh/Dhaka/Peshawar. So I suspect these are the ones with 274 seats and fewer Falcon Gold seats.
A9C-KJ does mostly Karachi/Islamabad/Jeddah etc in I believe a high density layout. (288 seats?)

The A320ER and A321's are really, really nice. There are 2 A319's seating 124 pax, 12 'normal' config A320's seating 136 pax, 5 A320ER's seating 110 pax and 4 A321's seating 169 pax. I flew on one of our normal config A320's (A9C-AI) the other day to Dubai and was surprised by the amount of legroom and seating comfort it had in economy. It had these new slimline seats installed and I had plenty of space, even with me being 6'03"!

A320ER's (also called A320 Enhanced) A9C-AM/N/O/P/Q mainly serve Frankfurt/Paris/Copenhagen/Rome but also do Nairobi/Beirut/Kuwait/Doha/Larnaca etc.
A321's operate the Indian subcontiment/Amman, Colombo/Kuwait/Dubai/Riyadh/Najaf/Khartoum.

Obviously things change around based on supply/demand and availability of aircraft.

@ 55Jay. If you want to know the reg to expect for your trip to BKK in November let me know and I can have a look in the system.

[nsiotto]

@ John21UK

Since I have booked a flight for Nov. 24 with GF BAH-BKK I'd be really obliged if you could reassure me as well whether the 330-200 flying in those days has a flat seat or the old business class config. Thanks, really! :)

[John21UK]

No problem. Which aircraft specifically operates a certain flight is assigned about 12 days in advance, sometimes a bit less. So at the moment it is still blank. I will monitor that flight and advice you.

[nsiotto]

Again thank you!

[55Jay]

John, what system are you referencing?

Only useful for past history, saw FlightRadar will give the past few days of info by reg#.

What's up with the sole 340? I saw it slipped in a BKK run?

[ExXB]

From his posts I would guess that John works for GF or one of their handling agents, etc. If I'm right the 'system' he refers to would be GF's proprietary system, not available to the unwashed masses ...

[55Jay]

I guess we'll know when he answers, but thanks.

[John21UK]

The sole A340, A9C-LI, works as a backup aircraft. There are two A330's doing a wet lease and there is lots of extra flying from BAH due to the Hajj etc. Like today it does a double Dubai.

The system I am refering to is the internal flight info system. And yes, I fly for Gulf Air.

[nsiotto]

John, can I take advantage of your kindness and ask whether a GF captain old acquaintance of mine named Sergei, Bulgarian (can't recall his surname right now) used to fly A320. Is he still employed or retired as he advised to me in 2011. Thanks!

[John21UK]

If we're talking about the same person, then yes, he is still here. A330/A340 captain I believe. Nice guy too!

[nsiotto]

Captain, but until a couple of years back he used to fly the A320, I don't know about the upgrade into 330/340. Yes a very nice person. We used to gather when I was living in Bahrain until 2004 and by chance I met him on a flight BAH-DOH back in 2011. Thanks for thee feedback John!

[55Jay]

Thanks for thee feedback John!
Ditto - Thanks, John.

Yes, I noticed the routes were fairly regional, lots of back and forth and thought of Hajj season. Thanks again.

[nsiotto]

John, finally I've made my booking and selected seats for my BAH-BKK flight.

Here's what's appearing for the seat selection in the BAH-BKK route:
http://i.imgur.com/cw8NQ.jpg

And here see what's showing for the return flight:
http://i.imgur.com/T50io.jpg

Does the seat selection give any hint on the kind of seats I will be flying? Obviously these are two different planes and the return flight might be an old J class config (which doesn't bother me at all since it's a day flight).

[55Jay]

Qatar 3 day sale 7-9 November.

Ran same fly dates I've already purchased with Gulf Air for next month's BKK trip. Came up a few hundred dollars less for 2 pax in restricted business fare.

Several hundred $ less than the normal QR Z business restricted fare and better than GF's normal. On 777 as usual.

Worth a look if needing to travel between November and March. There are two black out periods in December to Jan, about a week each I think it was.

[John21UK]

Those two periods in December and January are very popular times. For instance staff travel has embargoes around these periods.

@ nsiotto. I would say that your flight to BKK has the new Falcon Gold class and the return the old one. Here's my guess;

Your aircraft to BKK might be A9C-KJ. (A330 version 1 on the Gulf Air website)
I am hesitant about this one as I would find it strange that they would use this particular layout on this route. (medium J class and high Y class seats)

The return aircraft layout leads me to believe it's A9C-KE. (A330 version 3 on the Gulf Air website, more J class and less Y class)

Anyway, I stand to be corrected. I'll keep checking the system to see if there's any news. :ok:

[55Jay]

Thanks, John. Yip, high season over in Land of Smiles too. GF is holding their own on Z even against QR's 3-day bash.

I'm still happy giving GF a fresh look for this trip even if it's hard to shake the Forrest Gump Life is Like a Box of Chocolates thing going on.

I so want to give Doha scenic bus tours a permanent miss and come back to BKK runs on GF full-time again, I really do!!:ugh:

Hope all's well for you, thanks for being so friendly and open on SLF thread.

[John21UK]

@ nsiotto. The aircraft has been assigned and GF152 on NOV24, BAH-BKK is A9C-KB. (With the Formula 1 paintjob) My suspicion was right afterall, 'KJ' was a unusual layout to be assigned to BKK. I am not sure if 'KB' has the new Falcon Gold. I will ask some Cabin Service Managers when I am next in.

[nsiotto]

@John
Thanks for the update. One small note: my flight is on Nov 26, not 24. Thanks again for your kind follow up.

[John21UK]

Check your reply nbr#17, you said 24. Anyway, the 26th has not been fully loaded yet. I think my first guess could be pretty accurate though. So far its listed as a 33H meaning it's either 'KE' or 'KF'. Those usually do high density runs like Manila, Cairo, Lahore etc. I would hazard a guess that these carry the ' old' Falcon Gold product.

[nsiotto]

Yes John, that was my original travel plan that had to be modified due to some work related constraints and therefore the new confirmed booking is now for the 26th evening BAH-BKK. Thanks for your support and replies. I am still wondering what the first seating config could be since it's only of 8 J seats. The only one with 8 seats I have flown with GF was the A321 to Rome but the config was different (rows were 2 on each side) while here is 1-2-1. However as you said this could be a dummy seating choice since planes are confirmed a week to 12 days before ETD.

[John21UK]

And the answer is...A9C-KF.
Do you want to know any info on your other flights?

[nsiotto]

Thanks John, so its definitely the old falcon gold. Meaning an economy class seat a bit larger and partially reclinable. Am I correct?

For the other flights not an issue BAH-BKK is the important one. BKK-BAH is a day flight so not an issue whatever seating it has. Thanks.

[John21UK]

No problem. I am not familair with who has what config to be honest. I have not flown on the new config aircraft yet. What you could do is ask the question on Gulf Air's Facebook page. They are very good at updating and anwsering questions.

I think this is the 'old' Falcon Gold cabin:
Welcome to Flickr! (http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/15545136@N06/6601835151/)

[nsiotto]

Fair enough John, thanks a lot for your kind help and availability. The fare is so good that honestly seating is important but not to the point of paying double or even triple the cost with other airlines. So worse scenario I will rest upon arrival if I can't have a proper sleep. Thanks again and have a wonderful day.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

John21
Can do attitude, you're Manager should be proud:D

[John21UK]

Cheers, I mean, how hard is it to help someone?! I take pride in Gulf Air and honestly believe we/they offer a very good product these days.

I've been nosing around and it seems only A9C-KA/B/C/D have the new Falcon Gold cabin installed and the rest will follow when they are due for their next big checkup. Those aircraft also do BKK. Just let me know your return date and I'll have a look if you want?

[nsiotto]

John it's not hard to help you're right, but the only reason why some people do it without direct interests (you are an employee not the owner) is because you love your job and this is the most rewarding fact for any employer. Therefore I have to agree 100% with Mr Angry statement. Your manager should be proud of having onboard people like yourself.

[55Jay]

Not Business, general GF. The article drifts into other parlimentary debate topics which I'm sure is not meant to downplay the importance of GF's future.

Gulf Daily News » Local News » MPs set for crunch vote on Gulf Air (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=342097)

I enjoyed a similar literary display in the "Pray for Rain" article in Sunday's GDN, which described residents praying for rain, and then suddenly, a Philippine Presidental Envoy fell out of the sky! Related? LOL.

J

[John21UK]

@ nsiotto. Flt Gulf Air 150 to BKK on Nov 26th has now been changed to A9C-KA. That one, I have been told by Gulf Air, has the new Falcon Gold cabin installed.

[nsiotto]

John, yes it looks so because this evening I printed my bording pass and luckily I have chosen my seats at the time of online booking 1K and when given the opportunity to change seats I saw the first two rows 1-2-1 while others backwards 2-2-2. And the first two rows all booked (bad luck for my travelling partner who did not book his seat in advance). So I believe the J class has two configurations on this plane/flight.

Thanks for all your help and inputs. Really!

[nsiotto]

So I made the BAH-BKK flight. Here's the verdict. I was lucky to get the flat bed seats, the front two rows, which is the old first class. Remaining J rows it's with the old configuration which comes with an inclination but it's not flat. So according to my seating the flight was perfect, good service and my fare was cheaper than some other airlines economy class.

Here's what the seats look like: Gulf Air A330 Front Row J Class | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/moaksey/3563709861)
(This pic is not mine but this is the seat...)

Overall verdict according to my experience is more than excellent and won't hesitate do repeat the experience even with the risk of not having a flat bed. :ok:

[nsiotto]

One last update for the return trip from BKK to BAH. Old business class, half reclinable but with electronic commands and leg-foot rest. I have managed to sleep a little only because I was really tired, so for sleeping it's not the best option but for day flight the seat is really comfortable.

Here's a pic of the J class:
http://i.imgur.com/vZfbo.jpg

Overall I must say the price for me was below 1,000 USD so either seatings even for a night flight it's worth it all. There are still many airliners with the old J class seating charging double or even more, so this is for sure a great bargain and value for money in my opinion. With this flight I had also my card upgraded to Gold tier.

Gulf Air rocks :ok:

All the best to all, I hope my reporting was and/or will be useful to many.

Nicola

[John21UK]

Good to read you had a positive experience. I didn't expect anything other anyway. ;-) LOL. That sleeper seat pic says it's a 340 though, for what it's worth. But it's definately not the new Falcon Gold that matches the 320ER/321 style.

The return is indeed the old style that will be gone in the first quarter or 2013. I just travelled in FG on the new A320ER, very, very nice!

[nsiotto]

John, as said that pic wasn't mine, but that's identical to the seat I have travelled on the 330 to BKK. I have travelled on the 320er and 321 both to Rome and the J class seats are better than some first classes. Awsome to say the least. I just hope the overhaul won't affect too much the fare pricing though. I'd like to fly with GF for quite a while. Even with a reasonable increase I will stick to GF.

Only bad remark is the security transfer in BAH, sometimes too long queues and no distinction for J class passengers. During evening and night time it's a nightmare.

[John21UK]

Only bad remark is the security transfer in BAH, sometimes too long queues and no distinction for J class passengers. During evening and night time it's a nightmare.

Very true. Looks like they haven't caught on to the way it's done elsewhere. Could be something for the 'suggestion box'. ;-)

[nsiotto]

John, another CEO gone... and this one looked like the right one for the airline. What next?