I really need some advice regarding education and pilot career

[j4mi3]

Hi guys

I love flying, and would love a career as a pilot. Originally I wanted to fly in the RAF, but I didn't get the A-levels, or have the required eyesight to do this.

This leaves me with the option of becoming a commercial pilot.

At the moment, I am at university, but the problem is, it is not exactly a prestigious university, and the course has absolutely nothing to do with aviation. It is music production, music being one of my main hobbies in life.

Trouble is, I am not actually enjoying the course. I don't like the university, the people or the town, and whilst music is a hobby of mine, I am not too sure I want a career in it.

The reason my A levels were poor is I had no career goal! If I had known I wanted to be a pilot when I was 16 I would have tried 120% but this only occurred right after I finished school (and my parents bought me a trial lesson for my birthday).

I got (brace yourself) Biology (D), Sociology (D), Music Technology (C), Photography (C) and I also did music for AS where I got a D.

Now I know these are abysmal. I am much better than this, but of course it's the grades that matter, not my regret. I must reiterate. I am not delusional. I know for a fact I am capable of being a pilot, I wouldn't be prepared to invest money in it otherwise. But what's done is done, and unfortunately these are the grades I got. I probably would have got all As/Bs had I tried hard.


I am worried. To put it simply.

I am studying for my PPL as we speak, and I am confident I will do well in the practical aspect and in the exams. I have flown 15 hours so far and been solo 3 times.

I am looking at doing modular training after I have finished my PPL (and got my night rating and required hours).

But I am concerned after I have done all my training, I will have no hope with getting into an airline due to my awful A level results.

In addition, if I quit my degree, that is going to be even worse - but I am just not happy doing it. I haven't been happy since I started (mainly the people/uni itself. I have tried ignoring this and just going for the piece of paper at the end, I still can't do it)


Will airlines simply not employ be if I have mediocre A levels, and no degree? Would my chances be considerably higher if I got the degree, even if it was nothing to do with aviation?


For the record, I currently have a job at waitrose (it is my first job) x2 a week, but if I quit uni I would obviously do overtime as much as possible. It would probably take me a good 4 years to raise enough money to start training. But there is hope. This is not including bonus and opportunities for promotion.


Can you guys advise me please?

[flyboyweeksy]

If you believe in yourself that you can do it, it can happen. I'm not the cleverest person by any means but got through the ppl and ATPL exams. If you put the work in the rest will come. I found all this out and will be starting my commercial next month. All the best.

[BerksFlyer]

Don't forget a D/C at A-level is VERY good.

No it isn't.

Either way, your grades will not matter unless you were to try for an airline mentorship. Once qualified an airline will not care about your academics. Most importantly right now you should be considering what chance of a job you would have once qualified. For everyone who isn't on a mentored scheme it is the same negative picture regardless of school grades, unless you have some very useful contacts.

As far as aptitude is concerned, maybe it would be worth getting tested by an independent, impartial party such as GAPAN.

[j4mi3]

@ Berksflyer

yeah I know they're not :p

And I had heard that airlines will only be concerned with your ATPL exams.

What about a degree? I know a lot of employers in general favour degrees no matter what they're in, but what about airlines?

[mackey]

Hi j4mi3,

I left school with no qualifications at all. I went to college trained as a plumbing and heating engineer, did that for 16 years, then thought, I've had enough of having my head down someone else's toilet and decided to change careers in September 2002 and started flying with an airline in December 2006.
I was no way academic and found the ATPL's incredibily tough :confused:, hence the 4 year training!, but, I got through it......eventually!!!
If I can get through the trauma of the ATPL's, all the flying and jet conversion course :ugh:, then I'm sure at your age, you will breeze it.
I was 34 when I started the training, so no spring chicken!!

I hope this helps, if you want anymore help PM me.

[RTN11]

Perhaps changing degree would be a better option right now, it would make you happier in yourself and if you achieved a decent grade it would give you a confidence boost, and flying is a lot about confidence in yourself particularly on test days.

Your A-Levels won't matter, but they may be an indication that you don't know how to study properly. You may be passionate about flying, but air law and gen nav at ATPL are very difficult and dry subjects (although I personally loved Gen Nav and hated Met, hating gen nav is more common). You will need to figure out what stopped you achieving your full potential at A-level before you invest in this. I personally didn't achieve my predicted grades at A-level, but did ok. Never went to uni, but straight into work. Once I got into flying seriously, and had my balls busted numerous times by PPL instructors for not studying, I finally got my act in gear and got a 93% average on ATPL (not boasting, it's not that hard to achieve).

On the subject of finance, if you're starting from scratch it will be a lot of hours at waitrose before you have saved enough, certainly more than your 4 year estimate. You need to figure out the costs of each stage, break it down, come up with a time line and figure out exactly how you will fund it. It's pointless just getting your CPL/IR, you will certainly need to fund a type rating or bond, and possibly find money for an instructor rating too. Big loans are fine, but when you're unemployed or just scratching round for 2-3 years the repayments will soon add up.

[Jugs08]

I'd you really wanted to be do it you wouldn't be waiting for 3 years at uni. Go to work do well and save. Pay for your training and have little debt.

If it doesn't work out or if you have to wait you can resume a decent paid position.

Or you can be a another graduate without a job. I don't mean to be disrespectful but uni isn't a place for people with D's. I know mr Blair wanted everyone to go there but it really isn't necessary.

If have 2 years work experience and have two job offers, my gf has a 1st and BBB a levels and cant get into her career.

Get some experience. No point spending 3 years on something your heart is not in. I hope you don't view this as rude as I'm just trying to make a point.

[j4mi3]

@ Mackey

Thanks mate that makes me feel better

@ RTN11

Yeah the reason was no goal, in addition to awful prioritising. I had no reason to do well in my exams, so simply, I didn't.

Of course in this instance, it is imperative I get great results, so I will!

To be honest, in terms of uni, there aren't any courses I would want to do that I can do, because of my A level grades.

I would have found something like computer science pretty interesting but I know I won't be able to do that, which is a shame.

In addition, with the tuition fees tripling from this year onward, it is simply too much money

[BerksFlyer]

BerksFlyer, A B grade at A-level is equivalent to A* at GCSE.

So this would make a C grade at A-level equivalent to an A at GCSE.

In my opinion, anything above a fail at A-level is very good as a CURRENT A-level student.

There is no A-level grade proxy for GCSE and vice-versa. They are different levels on the educational framework and a comparison such as that does not exist. It would be like saying an A at A-level is the same as a Pass at undergraduate level.

What is good and what is bad is purely subjective, though I can assure you that your thoughts are not shared by those in recruitment for careers that do care about academics. Unless the original poster is interested in airline mentorships this does not apply to him and as such is off topic.

[119.35]

And generally, have you got a class 1 medical yet?

[BerksFlyer]

The key word there being minimum.

[206Fan]

I would have found something like computer science pretty interesting but I know I won't be able to do that, which is a shame.Hi J4,

You won't be able to get straight onto a Computer Science Degree with your current A Level Grades. Have you thought about applying for the Foundation Degree in the mentioned subject? I don't see Maths mentioned in your list of grades above so I'm not sure on that approach either.

Currently I'm 26. Like many others I left school with diddly squat on the Grades side. After numerous years in the Construction Industry earning dam all funds (due to the recession) while paying my PPL (Helicopter) loan off I had enough. I got myself onto the Level 3 National Diploma in Electrical Engineering. I am now on the last year of the Level 5 Higher National Diploma in the same subject. Applying to Uni for next year to get my Degree once and for all.

At the age of 19 you have plenty of time to sort your education out then worry about the flying. If you are interested in Computer Science or an Engineering subject then get yourself onto a lower level course like I done and work your way up. Maths will become your best friend.

Are you currently in First Year of Uni?

[206Fan]

Yes work on those A Levels, especially the Maths. If I could turn back the clock and go back to High School I would.

[RTN11]

This thread has become rather difficult reading due to a lot of deleted posts!

Of course in this instance, it is imperative I get great results, so I will!

You say that now, but Gen Nav, Met and Air law in particular are very in depth and difficult subjects. They can feel a million miles away from the airline job you dream of, and leave you feeling you are learning a lot of useless information you will never use. At this point it can be very difficult for many to keep the required dedication, and many people fail one of these exams more than once.

Ultimately your A-Level results won't matter once you get a CPL/IR and a good dose of experience - ie more than 1000 hours. Up to that point you will be up against hundreds of other candidates all with a basic CPL/IR and the minimum 200 hours, so who knows what could be the deciding factor in the mind of the recruiter calling people for interview.

I would really suggest you get some decent life experience, working at waitrose may or may not cover this, but I wouldn't suggest you jump straight into pilot studies without a full plan for finance and job prospects.

[Torque Tonight]

In my opinion, anything above a fail at A-level is very good as a CURRENT A-level student.

Dear, oh dear. :ugh:Standards like those will not equip you very well for life in the world of employment, but I think you know that now. By your definition, to get 'good' A-level results as opposed to 'very good', you would actually have failed everything. Genius.

Back on topic, the ATPL theory, although not rocket science, as moderately academic and laborious. Air Law is a test of motivation for even the most dedicated. You need to be capable self-disciplined study to get good results and you need to be getting excellent results, not just bare passes.

Similarly, every job application I have ever done has required me to list my qualifications. Although A-levels are not the most important factor, they are asked for. You may list a few Cs and Ds in lightweight subjects whilst others may have three or four As in academic subjects followed a respectable degree.

This is an extremely competitive jobs market and before you gamble £100k you need to think very hard and honestly appraise your likelihood of getting a job, because a 'burning desire to fly' is not enough. I'm not saying it's impossible, but at this point in time I don't fancy your chances. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

If you do decided that you must pursue aviation I would suggest you ditch the degree go to a college, do A-levels in Maths and Physics and make sure you get at least grade B. To be blunt a bad result (or dropout) in a mickey mouse degree from a second rate institution is worthless. A couple of solid technical A-levels might set you on the right path. If you try but fail to achieve this target, then I think you will have answered your own questions about motivation and ability.

[McNulty]

I have never had to list school results on an application form.