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Big Pistons Forever
19th Oct 2012, 01:17
Kind of slow on the boards so I thought I would stir the pot :E

My first (of many) votes

Teaching the RUNUP:

I think the flight training industry in general does a very poor job of teaching how to do a proper runup. It seems to be often mindlessly performed by rote with little or no understanding of what the engine/systems are actually telling you. Things that I think should be included, but hardly ever are:

1) Pick a runup spot that doesn't have the prop over loose gravel with the airplane not unnecessarily blocking other traffic and with the prop wash not going to blast somebody/something, even if this means the aircraft will not be exactly into the wind

2) Start by setting the POH recommended RPM. I have seen several instances where some other RPM setting is used because somebody thought their number was "better". After the engine is stabilized at the runup RPM setting ask yourself do the gauge indications make sense. By that I mean is the oil temp and pressure correlating with the conditions. If it is a cool day and the first flight I would expect to see low oil temp and high oil pressure and conversely on a hot day with an airplane that has just flown higher oil temp and lower oil pressure would be expected. If I saw for example a cold engine that had bottom of the green oil pressure the flight would be over right there. I also want to see some correlation between battery condition and charge rate. If the engine was a bit slower slower turning over at start than normal then I would expect to see a fairly high rate of charge on ammeter. No charge with a weak battery or a high rate of charge with a strong battery are red flags.

3) The characteristics of the RPM drop when the mags are cycled tells you a lot about the health of the engine ignition system. A properly set up engine should have both mags show a 75 to 100 RPM drop. A larger drop indicates that side is not delivering the power it should be (usually as a result of worn spark plug(s) ). If the drop is within limits this is not a show stopper but it should be mentioned to maintainance. A big difference in drops or a mag with a very low drop is indicative of poor mag timing and again should be discussed with maintainance as if left this condition could result in cylinder damage. Finally not many CPL students seem to be aware that no mag drop is a no go item as it indicates that some part of the mag control circuit (switch, switch wiring or P lead) is a faulty.

4) The Carb heat check is two checks, first that the crab heat is actually working with an immediate and significant (at least 200 RPM) drop) and that the engine has no carb ice. The second requires you to wait at least 15 seconds to give the chance for the heat to work. Pulling out the knob and then immediately pushing it back, which I often see with CPL students, won't check for carb ice.

5) The mixture check is IMO the most egregiously mismanaged check in the runup. The most common procedure is to yank the mixture knob out until the engine dies and then smash it back in. All this proves is that the mixture functions as an engine on/off switch. A far more useful check IMO, is to leave the carb heat on and then slowly lean the mixture. The RPM should rise as the overly rich mixture created by the less dense heated air is compensated for by the reduction in fuel returning the mixture ratio to best power (ie highest RPM). Continued leaning should cause the RPM to fall as the mixture becomes too lean and power (ie RPM) drops. A 100 RPM drop will prove the carb is working properly. In any case under No circumstances should the mixture be pulled so far back that the engine dies.

5) The runup should be done as part of a flow check and not by reading a checklist as a cue for each action and should not take more than about a minute.

Well that ought to get the electrons humming........

Level Attitude
19th Oct 2012, 09:28
4) Carb Heat:
At the end of doing all the good things that BPF suggests a check should be made to confirm that the RPM has returned to exactly what
it was before Carb Heat was first applied. If RPM higher then it suggests
some ice was present and has now melted. However it is impossible to know
if ALL the ice has melted - so reset RPM to POH suggested figure and repeat
the Carb Heat check. Not sure what it means if RPM is lower after Carb Heat
check - possibly Throttle Friction too loose?

If engine runs rough when Carb Heat is applied this could be due to ice melting and water running through engine or it could (in those aircraft where the exhaust provides the heat) be due to defects in the exhaust system allowing "pre-burned" (less O2) air & combustion products in to the induction system.

5) Mixture:
Sounds like a good system check but I am unaware of it being required
in any POH - or of it being performed in practise?

TheOddOne
20th Oct 2012, 17:08
5) Mixture:
Sounds like a good system check but I am unaware of it being required
in any POH - or of it being performed in practise? (sic)

In 30 years, this is the first time I've ever seen this suggested as part of the runup check.

Cheers,
TOO

foxmoth
20th Oct 2012, 18:02
I teach a lot of advanced PPL stuff, usually the run up is ok, what I do see a lot of is:-


Not checking the aircraft surroundings as they walk up, resulting in starting whilst pointing at other aircraft close behind or even pointing into the hangar.
Not closing the throttle before releasing the brakes, meaning they start moving before being properly ready.
Poor taxi checks - should be, power on, close throttle check brakes./ full and free rudders (unless able to do this before setting off), at SLOW speed/ Instrument checks whilst doing a GENTLE turn each way.
Climb out - lack of checks and lookout
Level off - bringing power back before speed has built up.
Stall recovery - generally done poorly because pilots are frightened of it.

There are other common errors, but these are probably the worst.

Big Pistons Forever
20th Oct 2012, 18:35
4) .

5) Mixture:
Sounds like a good system check but I am unaware of it being required
in any POH - or of it being performed in practise?

It would seem to me that making sure the carburator is working properly would be a good thing to know before going flying. If there is other ways to do it I would be very interested to hear. As I commented on in the Be a Better Pilot thread it is important to know that the carb is not set too lean. A lean mixture at full power is deadly for the engine as the high CHT's will burn the cylinders. A lack of a RPM rise when the mixture is leaned with carb heat on during the tuneup is likely caused by inadequate fuel flow and should be investigated. I have twice snagged an aircraft fir this. The first time it turned out the carb jet was dirty, but the second time was due to the wrong carb being installed, and the aircraft had flown like that for over 100 hrs. :ugh:

Re brakes: Yes the brakes should be checked as you roll from your parking spot, but I often see the aircraft roll a few feet and the make a sharp lurch down as the brakes are jammed full on. A gentle application will tell you all is well and in general if the nose is bobbing up and down when braking you are overdoing it. An excellent practice is when braking to a stop, ease up on the brake pressure just before the aircraft stops, this will allow the aircraft to come to nice smooth stop.

BEagle
21st Oct 2012, 06:57
I've never heard of a mixture check as a part of the engine check either.....

Checking the primer being properly locked, yes indeed. One of my instructors returned with a so-called rough running engine; on checking, I found that the primer wasn't locked, so with time and vibration it had moved slightly, interfering with the fuel supply....:hmm:

Piper.Classique
21st Oct 2012, 09:32
We don't seem to be able to teach our students any feel for the aeroplane.
For instance, being able to recognise when they are on the back of the drag curve. I've found a useful exersize is to get the student to find the speed at which they can maintain height with the least possible power setting, then progressively slow down while maintaining height until they are at full power. Then accelerate back to their original speed. It needs a calm day.

On the ground school side, how many students can quickly find information in the poh? We are all giving our students an electronic copy (scanned, on a USB key) to take home and study, I hope. I do this with a few other useful items, .
Plogs, met decodes, club statutes, local flying rules etc. Most people seem to have a flash card or USB key to hand, so it costs me nothing.

Charlie Foxtrot India
21st Oct 2012, 12:36
PFLs.

"pick a field.plan an approach". So many students are only taught this as a box ticking exercise and would be lucky to survive a real one, because they can fixate on one completely unsuitable one, often too close or too far away...there seems to be little evaluation and review taught.

How about set up a glide first, change tanks pump on carb heat hot, then assess which fields within range are suitable? Wouldn't it be nice if they could all spend a day or two at a gliding club because I never have this problem with people who have done some gliding.

And why on the pax brief suddenly tell me to "Take your false teeth out, I've been trained for this!" What, are you a dentist? Is something wrong? How about "we've had an engine failure and I will be landing in a field" first?

And as for the "yank boot shove" method of teaching stall entry and recoveries :mad: again how many people think the the recovery from a stall in a banked, balanced attitude is "Full opposite rudder" When I ask which bit of the standard recovery is actually the stall recovery, I often get "Applying full power" as an answer...:eek: Some seem to think that a stall will happen on a nice sunny day for no reason at all, few are taught the sort of situations that can lead to this and the fact that you will probably be too disorientated to realise what is going on? (VMC into IMC, low level turns downwind etc)

Cows getting bigger
21st Oct 2012, 14:04
S&L and trimming.

taff_lightning
21st Oct 2012, 17:57
Spinning, in fact scratch that, HASELL checks! Really think I'm gonna scream the next time a student tells me "height is OK".

Piper.Classique
21st Oct 2012, 18:18
How about set up a glide first, change tanks pump on carb heat hot, then assess which fields within range are suitable? Wouldn't it be nice if they could all spend a day or two at a gliding club because I never have this problem with people who have done some gliding.

I also instruct on gliders. The easy conversion is glider to microlight. Glider to light aircraft is nearly as quick. Hardest is the light aircraft pilot with 500 hours plus to microlight. Just done my renewal seminar for french microlight instructor and that seemed to be the consensus.....
It would be nice if the SEP pilot could do a glide approach to a 700m runway without running off the end......either end....or do a circuit in gliding range of said runway.....or get the nose down on an EFATO BEFORE they start faffing around with the radio...Or even instead of......or do a 45 degree banked turn without gaining or losing 500 feet in still air......or spend more time looking outside than at the instruments.

Rant over

sevenstrokeroll
21st Oct 2012, 22:57
I've never heard of checking the mixture control during a runup...got my first instructor ticket over 30 years ago.

I do think people overlook proper use of mixture during takeoff at HIGH altitude airports though.

People should also check the prop if equipped with constant speed prop.

speaking of glides/engine out practice....using the RPM knob to ''pseudo feather" the prop during glides, does extend glide range...indeed some glide performance charts require prop to be adjusted.

Big Pistons Forever
22nd Oct 2012, 00:18
Re mixture check:

I guess doing one or not is up to the instructor. However I have seen a lot of examples in both Canada and the US where the "mixture check" involves pulling the mixture knob out until the engine chokes and then ramming it back in. This doesn't prove much is and is hard on the engine.

If you as an instructor are teaching this then you IMO don't really understand how carburators work. So the bottom line from BPF's POV is

1) I think confirming proper operation of the carburator is worthwhile, and

2) If you are going to do a mixture check do it right.

Big Pistons Forever
22nd Oct 2012, 00:23
If I were asked to name one "magic bullet" to make flying training better then I would say it is have every instructor spend the first 2 hours of flying on Attitudes and Movements and teach it solely by reference to the natural horizon with the AI and DI covered for the whole lesson. It is IMO the worst taught lesson in flight training.

FlyingStone
22nd Oct 2012, 08:45
How about set up a glide first, change tanks pump on carb heat hot, then assess which fields within range are suitable?

I guess this depends on height - at 1000ft AGL or even lower, I'd set up a glide, choose the field and then try to restart. At 5000ft, it doesn't really matter that much, as long as you try to restart for as long as you can and then secure the engine before landing.

Although it depends on the glide ratio - with 7:1 I'd be focusing more on flying then on restarting than in let's say aircraft with glide ratio 12:1 or even higher.

using the RPM knob to ''pseudo feather" the prop during glides, does extend glide range...indeed some glide performance charts require prop to be adjusted.

True, but it should be pointed out that you may not have the full coarse pitch available with engine failure, since loss of oil pressure (which may result in engine failure) in most singles means the prop will go to fine pitch stop and the drag will be higher than with "pseudo feather".

Sillypeoples
22nd Oct 2012, 18:44
What you are really talking about is teaching the 'why' of checklist items...vs 'just do this'.....

Yep, important...but the nature of the beast is that 200 hour instructors teaching 50 hour students is such that the instructors aren't typically that understanding of what they are doing to explain this 'why' of this stuff....

Case in point....you are at 10,000 ft...the engine runs rough...so you put the carb heat on...you practically kill the engine....What's going on?

foxmoth
22nd Oct 2012, 19:58
Spinning, in fact scratch that, HASELL checks! Really think I'm gonna scream the next time a student tells me "height is OK".


Yes, I find I have to make a point of "height - sufficient to RECOVER by XXXXft"

incidentally I have now modified my teaching of HASSEL to HASSTEL, the T being for Transponder to 7004 if spinning or aeros, another thing that gets forgotten!

obgraham
22nd Oct 2012, 20:23
Rudder pedal is to be used, not just a shoe rest.

Took me a long time to understand that.

foxmoth
22nd Oct 2012, 21:09
Rudder pedal is to be used, not just a shoe rest.

Took me a long time to understand that.

Probably because, like many pilots these days, you were not flying aircraft where it was essential!

Inverted Flight
2nd Nov 2012, 23:37
Add static RPM to the list.....