Cirrus SR20

[Jude098]

I'm a recently qualified PPL(A) and having a lesson in the Cirrus SR20 at the end of this month.

I'm checked out on the C150, C152 and (after some circuits on Tuesday to complete my checkride) a Robin DR400. What should I be aware of re the Cirrus. All advice gratefully received.

Jude

[Fuji Abound]

That depends on the model.

There are essentially two variants, those with a full glass cockpit, and those without.

Cockpit aside you will find the aircraft considerably quicker than those you have flown. This translates into the scenery passing you by more quickly and into some pilots accustom to slower aircraft falling behind the aircraft. In short events over take them. They end up fast and high for the rejoin, or their navigation goes to pieces because they are struggling to keep up the radio calls, the airspace and the other jobs in the cruise.

You will also find the Cirrus much more slippery than you are accustom. It slows down a great deal more slowly so pilots find themselves going to fast round the circuit and end up hot and high on finals with no chance of losing the height and speed. The first stage of flaps is quite effective but the flap limiting speed is around 120 knots (I fly a 22 most of the time so cant recall the figures for the 20) so you need to have slowed before using them.

The answer is to think about the circuit from a greater distance, slow the aircraft down much earlier, and initially fly a wider circuit and a longer final approach. The other answer with en route flying is to make sure your preflight planning is solid - make sure you know the route, the frequencies, the airspace, in short do everything you can to prepare yourself for staying ahead of the aircraft, and if you are falling behind, slow the thing down, it will cruise at 120 knots very nicely thank you.

The side stick is a doddle and there is no trauma associated with hand flying that is often reported by those I can only assume havent hand flown. I have hand flown many times for a few hours and find it is a delight. The landing and take off will seem a little different the first few times and there is a tendency to fly rather to flat an approach the first few times but only flying the aircraft will solve those problems.

Glass is different than six packs. It will take time to get accustom to glass. Again I am afraid there is no substitute for time in the cockpit. That said the more time you can spend beforehand making sure you are familiar with all the systems the better. There are also some very good glass simulators available. It is a huge waste of money to learn how to use glass in the cockpit.

Don't expect a sprightly performance on the runway. Some would say the 20 is underpowered and you will probably notice very little difference between the 400 and the Cirrus. The 22 is a far better aircraft in this regard. Take care therefore if you try some T and G's, it is very easy to run out of runway, particularly if it was marginal to start with and you inevitably land too long. It is very easy to come to grief. Added to this the tyres and small, the pressure high, so wet grass and 20s are not a good combination as Lord Sugar I recall found to his embarrassment. :)

The handling will be more positive than the aircraft's to which you are accustom, but the side stick is not twitchy and the roll rate is hardly exciting.

The Cirrus handles cross winds extraordinarily well. Like any aircraft it will ultimately run out of authority with the ailerons letting you down first, but 25 knots is a non event and more possible, not that I would suggest that being a sensible starting point.

I could write more and bore you to death. Sorry if I have already.

Enjoy. Please let us know your thoughts when you have given it a go.

[A and C]

Most of what is written is correct but I would say that the rate of increase of induced drag with decreasing speed is much less marked on the Cirrus than the DR400.

While the Cirrus might take a little longer to slow than some aircraft Once at circuit speed it is no problem unless you have a flex wing ahead. The landing is uneventful. I see no reason to increase the already huge size of the average UK circuit futher for this aircraft.

All in all a very nice traveling machine but I think that with the good flaps and the low landing speed I am not sure that chute is necessary, I would rather have more baggage or fuel.

I do however maintain the opinion that the aircraft would have been 200Kg lighter if one of the German/Austrian aircraft company's had built it.

[Fuji Abound]

Yes i certainly would not advocate bigger circuits, smaller would be good!

However i was making the point that IF circuit traffic permits WHEN you are getting use to the circuit give yourself more time if you need it. After all if you end up hot and high on final all that can happen is a go around. I guess with any new aircraft giving yourself time is just a good thing to do.

I agree with your comments about drag completely.

I also agree with your comments about the germans ;), but americans are even fatter than most germans so perhaps they need to beef up the aircraft to take all that extra weight. ;);) only kidding.

[Fuji Abound]

A and c having reread my post i take your point even more. My post was badly worded. If you end up in the circuit at the corrct speed there is no need to fly around it any differently than in any other sep; i meant if you end up joining fast, as you probably will to start with, if traffic permitts give yourself even more time than you might expect to slow down regain your composure and remind the aircraft you are in charge!

[AviatorTB]

I believe that FA's comments covered a lot of useful territory so I won't repeat them. However, you should re-read and absorb them so that you will have plenty of headspace left to deal with all the other ways this plane may catch you out if you are careless. And just as with FA, what follows is hardly exhaustive.

The glass cockpit can dazzle you with a ton of information. It is all useful at the right time and to answer the right question. It is you who regulate those, not the plane. Garmin and Avidyne may still offer free pc sims for the 430 and the Entegra. Those are a must so that you are not wasting time (forget the lesson cost, I mean time saving your neck) trying to find info that is "there...somewhere." Sometimes, it does not matter that the info is somewhere on some screen. Just yesterday I flew a medical flight into KBOS in the mid-afternoon. The last thing I wanted to do upon landing was start scrolling to find the APD in the midst of vacating, cleaning and checking, and calling ground to get my taxi instructions. I already had the APD on my iPad (printing a pdf is what I did 2 years ago). Staying ahead of the plane is paramount, even when you are standing still.

This also means that you should learn about the weaknesses in the systems. For example, the XM weather is at least 5 to 15 minutes old, but in fact, the NEXRAD feeding it may be as much as 20 minutes old. Some AWOS data feeds properly and some does not. Little things like those can have a very interesting impact on you once you are in the air and are not as well prepared as you might have been. So, plan your flight and plans B and C on the ground as if you did not have the info on the MFD.

Because the screens give you so much data, you will have to unlearn so many of the myths of flying piston driven airplanes (flying oversquare; that LOP ops burn exhaust valves, etc etc). Regardless, unlearn them and also take the time to learn the right way to use the engine.

Lastly, find a good simulator school so that you can practice (say, once or twice a year) interesting abnormals and emergencies, including things that only a CAPS pull will remedy. The CAPS is hardly an instinctive thing especially when transitioning airframes.

Oh yeah, make sure you are having fun.

Cheers.

[A and C]

As an example of of European composites the Extra 300 is not a typical aircraft being mostly steel tube with a carbon wing that has wood ribs.

The Cirrus has the unfortunate dog tooth stuck in the front of what looked like a very clean wing and I cant see that helping to keep the weight down, the aircraft is very conservativly built and so gives away the advantage of composite construction in a lot of small ways that add up.

Origanaly the repair techniques looked like the Boeing manual from twenty years back and would have added lots of weight at any repair, fortunaly in service experiance has resulted in a much more enlightened approach to repair rather than treating the whole thing as if is was metal.

I see the SR20/22 as a very good attempt at entering a market that seen metal as the only option for aircraft, this resulted in a very conservative approach, I have no doubt that Cirrus with the lesons from the SR20/22 will be very well placed to make their next aircraft state of the art and very light.

[Coolhand78]

I agree with everything said by Fuji Abound but this part
the roll rate is hardly exciting

For me the *quick* roll rate was the first surprise on my first flight on a Cirrus. Ok, it's not the roll rate of an Extra or a Shukhoi, but compared with Piper/Cessna is quite impressive and precise.

[Fuji Abound]

Coolhand78 - yes agreed. The roll rate is relative.

The reason for my comment is that last time I flew a 400 the roll rate was also quite sprightly and I seem to recall if pushed 140 knots was possible although a 120 knot cruise seemed more in keeping. I was therefore making a comparison with the 400.

[007helicopter]

For example, the XM weather is at least 5 to 15 minutes old, but in fact, the NEXRAD feeding it may be as much as 20 minutes old. Some AWOS data feeds properly and some does not

We do not have XM weather over in Euroland so not an issue

I see the SR20/22 as a very good attempt at entering a market that seen metal as the only option for aircraft, this resulted in a very conservative approach, I have no doubt that Cirrus with the lesons from the SR20/22 will be very well placed to make their next aircraft state of the art and very light.

In fact every new model series gets heavier with less payload, G3 heavier than G2 heavier than G1. So I am not so sure I agree.

I'm checked out on the C150, C152 and (after some circuits on Tuesday to complete my checkride) a Robin DR400. What should I be aware of re the Cirrus. All advice gratefully received.


based on my own experience and your limited hours I would suggest you may require 15 plus hours before anyone is prepared to sign you off as a renter, it would be a worthwhile investment of time and money if you can afford and you will likely never wish to go back to the previous types.

The SR20 is virtually identical to the SR22, just with a massive chunk of power missing, it will prefer and you will be safer on decent hard runways of a reasonable length, at least to start with until you gain confidence and competency.

[Arfur Dent]

Biggest differences between 'normal' light aeroplanes and the Cirrus is the side-stick and the glass cockpit. If you can get some time in the aircraft on the ground with power on it may save time when you're paying per minute. The side-stick seems a bit strange at first but most people get used to it very quickly. Glass takes longer to get used to as it is quite complex to manage and become familiar with.
The other point worthy of note is that the Cirrus is a very expensive machine so will cost more to hire. Once you've experienced it, everything else is pretty second rate.
Lovely aircraft. Good luck!:ok:

[sharpend]

Depending on what you have been used to, side stick and glass cockpit should not present any problems.

However, a Cirrus is not so easy to land as say a PA28. Cirrus aircraft are designed for performance, not ease of operation. They are far less forgiving. Five kts hot in a PA 28 is not a problem, 5 kts hot in a Cirrus can be. Be sure to get quality instruction or it may bite you when solo.

On a lesser note, Cirrus aircraft are very slippery. Ensure you get the speed back early on joining the pattern. Closing the throttle and putting the nose down will not slow you down! Then you will find you are entering the downwind at 140 kts. Not a problem if like me you flew fast jets. But it might be if all you have flown in puddle jumpers.

Finally, take care on bumpy grass airfields... nuff said.

[spittingimage]

Don't try learning about the glass cockpit environment while actually flying. That will just increase the cost and adversely affect aircraft handing. Initially, especially low-time, you will have your hands full just flying the aircraft. Strongly suggest you get to know your way around the PFD/MFD/GPS stuff by practice on the ground beforehand.

That said, the SR20 is a lovely aircraft to fly when you are familiar with it; the SR22 even more so !

[Jude098]

Thank you all for you advice.
Will let you know how I get on.