Just how can you Force down a Jet?

[GANNET FAN]

Following the Turkish F16s forcing down a Syrian "jumbo", it got me wondering just exactly how do you "force down" another aeroplane? It would seem that the Syrian aeroplane was suspected of carrying weaponry of some sort and therefore a different threat to that on a suicide run. Obviously the F16 pilot said land or else but if the passenger plane decides to ignore this instruction, then what next?

Just an idle thought.

[Pontius Navigator]

To qualify the next answer [Pprune strikes again], it also depends on how hard-nosed you believe the overflown country to be.

If it was a fluffy European state then you might experience some spectacular formation flying. If it was a hard-nosed state you may see get a fire-power demonstration.

If it is a really hard-nosed state then you may not even see it.

Dg cites the Russians. You might also consider the Vincennes and the Iranian airliner in 1988.

Now, who would take odds on the Turks being soft and cuddly?

[Dg800]

Then you either shoot it down and accept the consequences (the Russians didn't have any qualms back in '83 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007)) or you let it through and then let the politicians and diplomats take over. At the very least, future overflights will not be authorized forcing all affected flights to re-route. If you show such blatant disregard for a country's authority then don't expect to be welcome there any more.

Ciao,

Dg800

[Dg800]

Now, who would take odds on the Turks being soft and cuddly? Well, their language does sound kind of cute. That's about the full extent of it though, as far as Turkish cuteness is concerned. :E

[27mm]

:cool:Easily done: you fly your stealth jet underneath it, then get Kurt Russell and his mates to sneak aboard through the freight deck and overpower the baddies....

[Top Bunk Tester]

What a great premise, they should make a movie of that one day. Ideally you should also have a well known action hero die early on in the movie to shock people and hook them in to rest of the film. :D

[500N]

Nowadays they would use jump out of a C17 above the jet
and use jetpacks to catch up to it, open the doors from the
outside and enter the jet to save the world !

[Kiltrash]

I know that this a game of bluff and counter bluff but there is / must be a code of practice, intercept and follow the leader. Get down safely and worry about it later

However assume for a moment that the pilots do not know what their government has arranged to be on their jet, as seems the case, pilots, crew passengers and plane allowed to continue minus the cargo. Is this not the same as unwitting smuggler of drugs, (mule), caught imprisoned and executed.

So in this case the pilots not knowing why they are intecepted, and fearing the worse could carry onto their home land hoping the F16's to not actually fire no matter what is transmitted to them

Pilots call

[Courtney Mil]

I guess you can shoot it down, but forcing it down is a different matter.

Here's the way Al Murdoch does it... http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/496928-whats-name-5.html#post7446297

[NutLoose]

Assuming its a bunch on Islamic terrorists that had taken control, you would fly in front of it in a Herc and throw pig carcasses and pork chops off the rear ramp at the windscreen, this would panic the terrorists who would rush to the rear of the aircraft allowing the crew to retake control..


Anyone else you throw frozen ducks at it, if it doesn't force them down or causes it to crash you will be in the clear as the subsequent investigation will put it down to a multiple bird strike


;)

[glojo]

With all the examples offered have we tactfully forgotten about the American EP-3 that was 'invited' to land at a Chinese Military Airbase and subsequently returned in pirated Ikea flat pack type boxes?

America was definitely not going to call the bluff of the Chinese.

[Pontius Navigator]

I know that this a game of bluff and counter bluff but there is / must be a code of practice, intercept and follow the leader. Get down safely and worry about it later

There is. There are internationally agreed interception rules which include follow me and land where indicated through to you are cleared to proceed en route.

However assume for a moment that the pilots do not know what their government has arranged to be on their jet, as seems the case, pilots, crew passengers and plane allowed to continue minus the cargo. Is this not the same as unwitting smuggler of drugs, (mule), caught imprisoned and executed.

Knowing or unknowing it is easier to allow the passengers and crew to continue but sometimes without their aircraft.

Not exactly the same but there was a Lockheed Super Connie that graced the ramp at Luqa airport in the '60s. It probably belonged to a company that was based in Florida with head offices further north. The crew decided to make their way home without the knowledge of the Maltese authorities. The Maltese were livid being left with unpaid parking fees and a load of guns they did not want.

So in this case the pilots not knowing why they are intecepted, and fearing the worse could carry onto their home land hoping the F16's to not actually fire no matter what is transmitted to them
Pilots call

Turkey-Syria - no chance.

[flydive1]

Ideally you should also have a well known action hero die early on in the movie :D

That was the best part of the movie:E

[Red Line Entry]

glojo,

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)

There was no question of being 'invited' to land - it was the US Navy crew trying not to die having suffered a mid-air!

[SASless]

GF.....Generally when one issues and Ultimatum..."Land or Else!" and the aircraft does not land....one whips and "Or Else" on them.

Not many Airline pilots are actually Suicidal so most shall opt for "Land" over the "Or Else".

[cuefaye]

Ask fantom ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

SASLess, there is always someone that knows different :)

EgyptAir Flight 990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990)

Now had Gameel Al-Batouti been approached by Turkish fighters he may well have praised Allah for his foresight in providing the means to reach heaven.

[Rosevidney1]

EgyptAir Flight 990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990)

Terrifying. A religious lunatic as first officer.

[con-pilot]

With all the examples offered have we tactfully forgotten about the American EP-3 that was 'invited' to land at a Chinese Military Airbase and subsequently returned in pirated Ikea flat pack type boxes?

America was definitely not going to call the bluff of the Chinese.

Are you referring to the EP-3E that was involved in a mid-air collision with the J-8 Chinese fighter?

If so, there was nothing 'invited' about the landing at the military air base.

Hainan Island incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)

The EP-3 made an emergency landing at Lingshui airfield, after at least 15 distress signals had gone unanswered, with the emergency code selected on the transponder

The crew was released 10 days later. So just who called whose bluff?

[Pontius Navigator]

Bit of an echo here with people repeating links posted previously.

Of course the Hainan Island incident resulted in an emergency landing in China, but what was the initial purpose of the intercept to get the aircraft to land in China or to stop it doing what it was doing? It had been on task for a number of hours before the fateful intercept.

This of course is one way, albeit extreme, to force the aircraft to land.

[TT2]

You make 'Put your wheels down' noises. If they don't, you knob them.

[Sunfish]

Adiz requirements, procedures and signals once intercepted here:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/ersa/GUID_ersa-fac-2-14_23-Aug-2012.pdf#page25

[chuks]

There is a section in the Jepps about the signals given by an interceptor to a civil aircraft. It's all pretty well known, or it should be. They don't tell you what happens next if you ignore all the signals, such as voice communications telling you what to do, but it should be easy to guess that must involve "deadly force."

[con-pilot]

PN

Of course the Hainan Island incident resulted in an emergency landing in China, but what was the initial purpose of the intercept to get the aircraft to land in China or to stop it doing what it was doing? It had been on task for a number of hours before the fateful intercept

Going from memory, these flights that the EP-3E was performing were a very common occurrence. Every time the P-3 would get in the area where the mid-air took place they were intercepted by Chinese fighters. Much like the Bear interceptions off of the US and UK shores in the past.

These interceptions were in fact so common, that one Chinese pilot wrote an internet address on a piece of paper so the EP-3E crew could read the address. If I recall correctly, this was the same pilot that later caused the mid-air. When all the facts were in and photos taken by the P-3 crew were viewed. the mid-air was just a tragic accident caused when the J-8 got way too close to the P-3's left wing and contacted the number one engine's propeller.

But in any case, the Chinese fighters were not trying to force the EP-3E to land. It was just an everyday style intercept, that went terribly wrong and cost the life of a young pilot.

There was a very long thread about this accident here in Pprune when it happened.

Cheers.

[pr00ne]

TT2,


"If they don't, you knob them. "


...and then you go to prison for mass murder.

I do hope they don't let you play with anything sharp?

[Rick777]

Probably not assuming the fighters were operating under orders of their government and didn't fire without orders. More likely to end up in prison if they refused to fire.