Scared of flying - A380 safe?

[Pikabo]

Hello everybody,
I am a student in Singapore, but I am born and normally live in Norway. This means that I had to fy to get here, and I have to fly back. As you can see in the Title of this post I am not a comfortable flyer. In fact I feel that it is dead scary.

My question though is this; What is the safest planes I can fly, getting from Singapore to Norway? Is it the A380 that is the safest carrier across continents?

Hope to hear answers that eases my fear of flying, and informs me how to get home most safely.

[Load Toad]

Well, don't walk or drive that's for sure...

[Load Toad]

Rather than studying the minutia of air accident statistics and then comparing and contrasting with conflicting and biased anecdotal evidence - why not:
1) See a shrink
2) Buy some Xanax
3) Go talk to some pilots
4) Have some wine before the flight.

[Pikabo]

Thank you for your answer, and for showing an understanding of my concern. I hardly have to point out that I am currently doing what you suggest as option #3; "Go talk to some pilots". I know no pilots myself, therefore I turn to this forum, which I understand to be rich in Pilot users. :)

What is the answer a pilot would give me?

[strake]

On here, he (or she) would probably say "Click on the second FAQ at the top of this forum where you will find every answer ever given on the subject".
Try it and see....

[wiggy]

What is the answer a pilot would give me?



I'm not sure what you expect us to say? I'd say: "Well you can look at the statistics but that tells you nothing about how safe the next flight will be".

The A380 is a relatively new aircraft compared with the likes of the 777/747/A330. That means it's hasn't done as many sectors as the older types which in turn makes it very hard to make a meaning full comparison in terms of accidents/incidents per sector (because the sample sizes would be vastly different across the various types)....

In summary the A380 a modern design which has a good safety record so far......

[Tableview]

Even if you flew on the world's most dangerous airline, your chances of being in an incident on single journey are negligible. You have a higher chance of being killed by a knife wielding maniac, hit by a bus, having a heart attack, or hit by a random bullet from a shoot out.

That said, do not pick an airline known to be unsafe and above all stop worrying.

[doubleu-anker]

No you will be OK.

Airbus have been quoted, the A380 in "uncrashable".

You will have to erase all memory of the Titanic.

[G-BPED]

I would be more concerned about the dangers of falling over in the ice during a Norwegian winter than flying!

[Wannabe Flyer]

Not a pilot but a SLF with over a million miles under my belt over the past 20 years.

1) Still alive and talking
2) Alcohol is not always the best cure
3) More chances of getting run over by a wheelchair at the airport than getting hurt in an airplane.
4) Airport security is more scary
5) 380, singapore = SQ so check their track record.
6) Last know 380 fatality.................

Don't be scary things getting better by the day!

[The SSK]

If the A380 ever has a crash it will probably be because it's so ugly the sky rejects it. Play safe and choose a 747/777.330/340 instead.

[PAXboy]

The SSK You nailed it in one. :ok: Thanks for a big laugh.

For Pikabo. Sorry that you are getting a rough ride on your first visit here. Please do read the FAQ as Strake suggests. I know that fear of flying is a phobia and so does not react to reasoned thought.

In nearly 47 years as a passenger (not a million miles but regular long haul) I have never had a moment when I thought the aircraft was in danger. I have never experienced ANYTHING other than normal operations.

[fernytickles]

Knowledge is power, ignorance can feed fear. To help overcome your fear, have you ever considered studying what it is that keeps a plane aloft? It won't help you control the plane you are travelling in as a passenger, but a better understanding of what is going on when you are on board may help you to address your fears & improve the overall experience.

Anyone can learn to fly. You never know, you might find you become as nuts about it as most of the folks who post on here :ok:

[Tableview]

I have several friends and colleagues who suffer from fear of flying and have run seminars to try to help them.

It is, like most phobias, irrational. Explaining what keeps the 'plane aloft does not really solve the problem, nor does explaining the various noises and movements which take place during a flight. The conversations always turns to the 'what if ....' type questions. Interestingly, in my experience, most people find turbulence scarier than anything else.

Unfortunately most of that 'what ifs' are based on actual accidents, so it is hard to deny that they happen, one can only say that the chances are negligible and that the investigations after each event make flying safer. It doesn't help!

One of our friends has a phobia about dogs, and our gentle soppy labrador/beagle had to be locked up when he came round. Nothing would persuade him that the dog was not going to tear out his throat!

[Rush2112]

SQ have a pretty decent safety record but they don't fly direct to Oslo, as far as I know the closest would be Copenhagen so even if a 380 gets you that far you still have another flight with which to contend! Or get a ferry, and what a safety record they have around the world...

[vctenderness]

The most frightening thing about your trip will be the price of a beer in the bar when you arrive in Oslo!

As everyone has said here flying is very safe nearly 40 years as crew and never a scary moment.....except point one above!

[Skipness One Echo]

If the A380 ever has a crash it will probably be because it's so ugly the sky rejects it.
I spilled my tea!

[Load Toad]

The most frightening thing about your trip will be the price of a beer in the bar when you arrive in Oslo!

Compared to the price of beer in Singers...? Y' think...?

[419]

What is the answer a pilot would give me?

If it was the pilot of the aircraft in question, they would probably say that if they didn't think it was safe then they wouldn't be flying it.

[ExXB]

That said, do not pick an airline known to be unsafe and above all stop worrying.

TV, I think you would struggle to find any commercial airline to be 'know to be unsafe'. Even the worst regulatory body on the planet would not permit such an airline to operate.

It it's scheduled it is likely to be safe. Even airlines like Air France who have a higher than average 'unscheduled hull retirement' rate is not unsafe, more likely unlikely. (Their incidents are not due to one single reason).

Find the flights that meet your schedule and price requirements, and enjoy your flight.

[Hotel Tango]

ExXB, I may not have understood your post correctly, so I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but there are plenty of unsafe airlines in my book. I certainly have a personal black list of airlines I won't fly with for a variety of reasons. Of course I realise that even the "safer" ones offer no guarantee but let's just say that I try and avoid stacking the odds against me.

As for aircraft types, the A380 developing cracks so early in its career hasn't impressed me too much. I will also be waiting a while before stepping on an B787. I wouldn't think twice about stepping aboard a DC-3 though. Crazy eh?!

[KBPsen]

Define 'safe'.

[Hotel Tango]

That's why I used inverted commas, because nothing is, or will ever be, 100%safe. However, a lot more comes into the equation such as maintenance standards, type of training, culture, etc. I'm not blind to the fact that an accident can happen to any airline, but generally there are some airlines in some parts of the world more prone than others.

[SeLFish_Flyer]

I used to have a phobia about heights. One day I was driving to LHR to get on a flight to Cape Town and there was a discussion on the radio about phobias. Basically teh guy said that the problem people have with a phobia is that whatever scares them they tell themself will not happen i.e. if you are scared of flying you tell yourself "it is OK, the plane will not crash". But you are putting negative thoughts in your head. So instead you should think positive e.g. "well I am going to be at 36,000 feet, I will ge ta beautiful view of the World, the sun will be shining " etc etc

two days later I was in CPT at the bottom of Table Mountain, the rest of the group were getting the cable car up, I said I would walk!!! Then I thought about the programme and said "what the heck, I will love it, I will get a great view of CPT, views of the harbour" and so on. Even when it started rotating and i was next to an open window I loved it, and I have never looked back. I have even been on a cable car evacuated from a mountain due to a storm and high winds. I was sat next to the door.....and it did not close, I was left looking out over a huge drop. And I was leaning out and didnt have a problem!!

So in summary to the OP. Book your flight on whatever carrier (you can check out safety records) and start looking forward to it. Flying is a wonderful experience.

[Mark in CA]

As with anything in life, nothing is 100% safe. You have a much higher chance of being killed in an auto accident than a plane accident. Your lifetime chance of dying in an airplane accident is 1 in 20,000. For an auto accident it's 1 in 100.


Among the other things you might die of before dying in an airplane accident are:

Drowning, eletrocution, fire or smoke, falling down, suicide, stroke, cancer and heart disease.

[Doors to Automatic]

BA
Lufthansa
SAS
Emirates
Etihad
Singapore
KLM
Air France

Any of the above airlines (plus many more) have exceptionally high safety standards and will get you to your destination in one piece.

As someone else said you are many many more times likely to be killed on your way to and from the airport than on the plane.

[The SSK]

Now there’s a thought

Think of all the things you can’t die from while flying.
Road traffic accident
Drowning in the bath
Electrocution
Caught in an avalanche
Eaten by a shark
Heart attack during sex (well, I suppose you could)
Falling down stairs
Hang on, the A380 has stairs...

[ExXB]

BA
Lufthansa
SAS
Emirates
Etihad
Singapore
KLM
Air France

Any of the above airlines (plus many more) have exceptionally high safety standards and will get you to your destination in one piece.

I would add all other IATA members, which are required to pass a safety audit to keep their membership.

[Jetpipe.]

Eaten by a shark

I wouldn't be sure about that either !! :}

[Rush2112]

Compared to the price of beer in Singers...? Y' think...?

Just got in from the pub: SGD12 for a pint of Heineken. Six quid, seven Euros fifty. Quite shocking.

[Capot]

Pikabo,

Every aircraft type that's permitted to fly is only permitted to operate for civil air transport because it is safe. In other words its design, materials and performance have been tested exhaustively, including submitting it to extremes that it will never go anywhere near in normal service. So you can rest easy on that point.

What causes accidents, in aviation as in anything else, is human error. The aviation industry, through the operation of the International Civil Aviation Organisation since the end of WWII, has done 20 times as much as any other industry where human error kills people, such as railways, ferry operators, bus operators and doctors, to eliminate the risk of human error by a combination of regulated and high quality training, very detailed operating regulations, and intense regulatory oversight backed by law.

It is only in the aviation industry, in Europe at least (and I'm sure in most other well-developed, mature countries) that a Chief Executive is nominated as "The Accountable Manager" who is personally responsible for the safety of the organisation. The word Accountable means what it says. Prison looms for the Accountable Manager if people are harmed due to lack of proper safety management, and rightly so.

(Unlike, say, the rail industry in the UK, where when people are killed because the Company's Directors are totally incompetent and unfit, people lower down the chain get blamed while the said "Directors", including the CEO or whatever, negotiate their next bonus.)

This is why, statistically, air travel is the safest form of transport where millions of people board an aircraft every day round the world without a thought for safety. And millions arrive just as they expect to without any upset. Like lots of people in this forum, apart from aircrew whose job is to fly, I do that 2-3 times a month and have done so, all over the world, since 1969. Each flight is 1,000 times more safe than the surface journey that follows it to the hotel or back to home.

So the answer to your question is that of course the A380 is safe; it would be grounded if there were the tiniest smidgen of doubt about that. And the airlines which operate it are some of the world's leaders in training, quality management and safety management.

Enjoy your flight. But plan your seat location, if you can, to be at the front of the Immigration queue.

[Tableview]

TV, I think you would struggle to find any commercial airline to be 'know to be unsafe'.

By 'known to be unsafe' I meant countries, rather than carriers, that have signficantly higher hull loss rates than average, for example Nigeria, Nepal. Cubana (Crashes Regularly Before Arriving at Next Airport) used to be considered unsafe with a well above average FATAC rate, and the one that had Accidents Expected Regularly On F* Lethal Old Tupolevs was another. Both have cleaned up their acts significantly.

As for Air France, the main thing that puts me off flying with them is having to transit CDG.

[SLF3]

Rough numbers, but if you fly with a reputable airline you have about a 1 in 3 million chance of being on a plane that crashes, and a better than 50% chance of surviving the crash.

So your fear, however real, is irrational.

As to aircraft type, there is no reason to believe the A-380 will not be as safe as other types but it does not have much of a service record yet. So if you are really paranoid you would avoid it - and the 787 Dreamliner too.

The A380 is really ugly to look at - my theory is they knew it would be hard to fill, so built a little one first. The stretch version will look fine.

[strake]

Just out of interest, why do people respond to these threads in any other way than suggesting the OP look at the innumerable FAQ's on the subject?
There is no way that anything new written here will magically "cure" fear of flying for someone.
Perhaps posters are trying to assuage their own fears...:)

[Sunnyjohn]

Hallo Pikabo. I have the utmost sympathy with you. However, and I do mean this kindly - to misquote Jackson Browne - 'Your problem is you.' Flying, statistically, is one of the safest forms of transport and the A380 is a tried and tested aircraft. If you are travelling alone, express you fears quietly to the person next to you and you should find that you will have a sympathetic ear for the duration of your flight. The vast number of people I sit next to when flying do not like flying and do not want to be there, and there's nothing quite like a friendly chat to ease your fears and give you a good flight.

I hope all goes well for you and that you have a good flight home.

[SloppyJoe]

Anyone who thinks Air France has a good safety record is delusional, 337 deaths this century. 3 aircraft lost, 2 due to pilot error.

Show me a major airline anywhere in the world that has a worse record.

[Pikabo]

Thank you all for great answers! I got some great techniques I will definetely use during my next flight. I forgot to mention; I never listen to my fear of flying, so it does not stop me from flying wherever I want to go. I just get myself together and have a terrible experience. But as was said earlier; it helps to know more about flying! So thank you!

I see alot of you dont like the look of the A380, I must say I disagree. I think it looks great, and I hope they keep it in business. Hopefully it can also help reduce the amount of gas per passenger, thus helping the environment. Why do you hate the A380 so much?

[strake]

Hopefully it can also help reduce the amount of gas per passenger

Are you referring to Aviation fuel...or some sort of other problem you have when flying? :E

[Mark in CA]

Pikabo - as I've said on this board before, you may find a lot of your anxiety relieved if you take a few flying lessons yourself and learn what flying really feels like, how an airplane works and gain some sense of control. That was not my intention when I learned to fly, but I found it made me feel a lot better about flying commercially.

[Jetpipe.]

Best cure to your fear is to learn to fly yourself!! Take some courses or even better a Private Pilots License... :ok:

[Wannabe Flyer]

Hopefully it can also help reduce the amount of gas per passenger
Are you referring to Aviation fuel...or some sort of other problem you have when flying? [QUOTE]

is there any way to harness that so the cabin smells less and we also save on AVGAS

[taybird]

I recommend taking flying lessons to reduce your fear. It takes away many elements of the unknown, making it a whole lot less scary. I know a number of people who have learned to fly and successfully conquered their fear of flying.

I've also heard generally good feedback about the "Fear of flying" courses run by people such as BA and Virgin, which might be cheaper than learning to fly!

I took a passenger for a flight a couple of weeks ago - she was terrified but didn't want her kids to see that she was. She'd spent 16 years flying as SLF for her job and absolutely hated it. But, she decided to go ahead with our little trip. We talked through exactly what was going to happen and why, and she had the freedom to call a stop to it at any time. We lined up, took off, turned in the circuit okay and departed the circuit for general handling during which she had a go of the stick. I then suggested we could go back and she wanted to stay up longer! So we did, and she loved it. By the time we were on short final she was waving to her family, and taxying in she had a grin from ear to ear.

Just telling you this to let you know that it is possible to face and conquer your fear. It's not wrong to be afraid, it's perfectly reasonable when stuff's going on that you don't understand and are not in control of. But that gives you a clue as to how to address the fear.

Good luck!

[Shack37]

Define 'safe'.


A big strong box for storing money and the family jewels.

[parsifal777]

Just my 3 pence's worth. I have been flying as crew for 14 years (kind of average) - nothing of note happened. Check/google the stats - flying is very safe compared to crossing the road/riding a motorbike etc. Enjoy the experience. Get a seat near the wings, away from the window. Browse in the terminal. Enjoy the space, the architecture, admire us the crew gliding across and parting the crowds, get on, listen to the emergency demonstration, enjoy the meal, say thank you to the crew, do the inflight entertainment, have moderate amount of alcohol, have a sleep and get off. There is nothing to it. Bon Voyage.

[InSeat19c]

I was chatting to a member of the BA cabin crew on a recent longhaul flight and she said she had been crew for over 30 years.

So I asked her what was the worst thing that had happened.

One aborted take off was her reply.

I was more than a bit disappointed and had expected at least one emergency landing.

But in my disappointment, I was also reassured because if someone like her can fly as many times as she has had in all those years and never have a problem, then there's nothing really for us to worry about.

Enjoy your flight Pikabo :)

[Photon85]

It's about 20+ sgd some places in Oslo.
The beer that is

[OFSO]

I have never had a moment when I thought the aircraft was in danger

I agree with that statement, PAX, but having seen what idiot passengers stuff into the overhead lockers I have, when flying in turbulent conditions, occasionally found myself praying that the latches hold !

[Sunnyjohn]

Parsival777 - that's just about a perfect answer. You should write a book. I've copied your post to show my best friend who is a nervous flyer. thanks.

[Bae_systems]

I am not a pilot.
I don't fly often
I also do not like flying to much.

But what I do know is that flying is officially the safest way of transport.
There are more than 3 times more deaths and injuries on the roads than in airplanes.

I once was on a flight home from America one and there was a lot of turbulence.
I found it really helped to have a quick chat to the pilot he told me everything was fine and that it's nothing to worry about.

If you done like turbulence ask to sit in the middle of the plane ( where the wing is) it's not as noticeable there.

[S.o.S.]

Hello Bae_systems and welcome to the forum. Yes, where the wings meet fuselage is the most stable place but, turbulence happens. Which is why all pax are requested to keep their seatbelt 'lightly fastened' during flight.

It can get turbulent in this cabin too ... :hmm:

[DaveReidUK]

I found it really helped to have a quick chat to the pilot

How did you go about that, out of interest ? Was it pre-9/11 ?

[InSeat19c]

@Bae_systems


How does one "have a quick chat with the pilot"?


Also, the thread is from 2012, so I'm sure that poster either felt the fear and did it anyway (see what I did there?) or just resigned themselves to their fate of never going anywhere by plane...ever!

[BWSBoy6]

I've always been uncomfortable about flying, particularly take off and turbulence but having read the article below,it put it all in perspective.

Turbulence: Everything You Need to Know (http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/turbulence/)

I too used to the have a mental image of the pilots wrestling with the control column during a particularly bumpy flight and to read they're probably more concerned about spilling their coffee really reassured me. As soon as the plane starts that 'shudder' and the seat belt lights go on, I make myself recall this particular article and it has help me control my nerves! :O:ok::ok:

Mrs Bws

[Capot]

I have managed to avoid involvement in any flight that was not totally routine (apart from an over-run at Beirut in a Coronado that landed very hot) while working as an airline/airport manager/consultant since 1969 and flying as an airline passenger at least 20 times a year on average, short and long-haul. In the same period I have had 3 serious car accidents, and one train accident.

I am living proof that anyone who is involved in a serious incident in a lifetime of flying as a passenger is very, very unlucky. No doubt someone here has time to look up the probability, but I know it's so small as to be almost negligible, like winning the Lottery.

However, you make your own luck, and I make mine by avoiding wherever possible small private airlines in States that were once in the USSR, private airlines in the Far East, and most airlines in Africa.

As a massive generalisation (who cares, it's my life), such airlines tend to have poor management and a lack of working capital, and to be regulated by National Authorities that have a propensity for incompetence, poor training, lack of funds and in some cases corruption. (Rather like the UK CAA, now that I mention it). As a result, they are best avoided, but even so the risk of any given flight going wrong is still extremely small.

[Hotel Tango]

How does one "have a quick chat with the pilot"?

Three man F/D crew on long haul. At given moments the Captain or one of the other pilots may come into the cabin for their rest period and, if so inclined, take the opportunity to have a wee chat with some of the pax. Quite a common occurrence with one airline I fly L/H with.

[DaveReidUK]

Looks like the OP hasn't been back, so we'll never know ...

[S.o.S.]

Indeed DRUK, I can't imagine how we frightened them off. :oh:

To give a further nugget, flight crew will tell you that - when it's bumpy for them, it's less so for us. When it's REALLY bumpy for them, then they know that we are feeling it. This for the simple reason that they are at the end of the 'see-saw' and feel movement more than us.