Stolen Valor.....and Wanna Be's

[SASless]

Until recently, the United States had a "Stolen Valor" law which made it a crime for Wanna Be's to wear Military Decorations which they had not been awarded. We even had a Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) that committed Suicide shortly after being discovered to be wearing Decorations that were questionable.

Our Supreme Court decided such conduct is a form of "Free Speech" and the Stolen Valor Law was struck down. Dissenters on the Court did note the Law as written was un-Constitutional but if re-written might very well pass muster.

This is one example of several guys caught and brought up before the Court of Public Opinion which can be quite harsh.

For those Not Knowing....it was his Neck Tie that gave him away! Very un-military that!


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/3161_508678649159690_751422918_n.jpg



Real USN SEALs have been known to counsel Non-SEAL's about the "curse" that follows the imporper wear of the Trident.....seems ill health has been found to afflict Poseurs for some unknown reason.

http://www.stolenvalor.com/images/fakeseal1.jpg

[unclenelli]

... after Walter Mitty (Danny Kaye film, 1939)


Easily a giveaway in UK - less medals to visually check out.

Anyone in UK with 15 rows (15 rows x 4 per row) would be scrutinised by everyone!!!!

I've often seen it on TV where Costume would give a character 5 medals per row - an instant giveaway.

We've had Walts here in the UK - I remember the news reporting a Walt in the Rememberance Parade down Whitehall wearing 2 GSM62's (instead of 1 with additional bars) and an SAS beret.
Can't remember what happened to him, once he was outed.

The British Honours System has a set order for medals - again a big giveaway for Walts.


Apart from USA (who allegedly can get 3 medals in 1 weekend for flying across the Atlantic Eastbound, Westbound and across a war-zone (Northern Ireland?!), the most I've seen is [KOSHER][Aussie Keith Payne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne) VC, OAM[\KOSHER] - 29 Medals (24 + 5 additional bars)






Parents (or Grandparents proving intermediary parent is deceased) can be worn on the RHS)

[NutLoose]

You mean

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/dec2009/1/5/roger-day-fake-hero-450-391540317.jpg

The full explanation of what he is wearing is here

'Fake' war veteran Roger Day: Medals are pukka...but I'm sworn to silence on how I won them | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233634/Fake-war-veteran-Roger-Day-Medals-pukka--Im-sworn-silence-I-won-them.html)


Walt heaven here, you want to see what some of them have

Fake military veterans - are you a SEAL? SAS? - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum (http://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lounge/91103-fake-military-veterans-you-seal-sas.html)

[unclenelli]

Nutloose
That's the Fella!!!!!
CORRECT - It's A WALT!!!!

QGJM #T2 and GSM62 (#T8 Non Commissioned) are the wrong way round - MC (#T2 Commissioned only) - 3 Foreign medals #T3, B4-7 out of order!


Mr Day, who wore a beige SAS beret at the parade, insisted his medals were genuine, but said the Official Secrets Act stopped him giving details. He said: 'They're all proper, pukka campaign medals. Medals I won in conflicts while I was serving with the British forces. All I can say is South Atlantic the Gulf, Kuwait and one or two other stations.
BLUE = TRUE (probably - depending on where he bought them, unless unnamed replicas)
RED = B0LL0CK$

[Jayand]

That SAS one is soooooo obvious! He's gone to all that trouble and missed out buying a decent regimental tie? You don't wear all the extras and have a crappy Burtons physcadelic tie with it!
Doh.

[unclenelli]

I can't believe I missed the Tie!!!!!!





And the fact that he's failed to grow facial hair in direct contravention of QRs (as per most Service-leavers)



WALT Roger Day opted for 2 brooches of 8 & 9 medals


Non-WALT, Keith Payne has 1 brooch of 24!!! (God knows what that must have cost to get mounted - my 6 (inc minis) cost almost £100!!!)

[Rosevidney1]

I can't understand why people feel the need to falsely proclaim themselves to be heroic. Look at the risk. A situation may develop in your immediate vicinity and everyone then expects you to do something brave! Oh no, I'm quite content to be considered a craven coward (and can quake convincingly in my shoes even when I'm not terrified!)

[P6 Driver]

I find these people both amusing and quite sad at the same time.

[airborne_artist]

A true walt's walt: The Baron of Castleshort - ARRSEpedia (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/The_Baron_of_Castleshort)

[Sven Langolier]

Don't forget the comical Downunder Twins -
http://i48.tinypic.com/2w6z40h.jpg

They come up before the beak in Brisbane next week charged with one count each of falsely representing to be a returned soldier, sailor or airman and improper use of service decorations. Thread here (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/380264-definitive-thread-walts-various-12.html#post7438209)

[November4]

It comes to something when a Walt has to impersonate the lad who writes the RAFAirman Blog (http://rafairman.wordpress.com/2012/08/17/what-a-walt/) to try and score on a dating site....

Someone, a Walt, used my picture on a dating site. I received a Direct Message on twitter from someone who followed me asking if I was using a dating site. I wasn’t. I am not. The messenger went on to say that someone had contacted her on a dating site ‘flirting’ with her, using a picture that she recognised. My old Twitter picture. The dead-ally hardcore one of me, taken by a military photographer in Afghanistan, just before I was going out on a patrol. Tooled up. Helmet, body armour, combats, rifle.

[TheWizard]

I think it has been established that Keith Payne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Payne) is not a Walt but can anyone explain how he has the Queen's Silver, Golden and Diamond Jubilee medal if he retired from the Armed Forces proper in 1975? :confused:
Genuine question

[Tankertrashnav]

Genuine question deserves a straightforward answer. Holders of the Victoria Cross and George Cross are automatically awarded any Coronation or Jubilee Medal issued in their lifetime. Thus First World war Victoria Cross groups often terminate in the 1935 Silver Jubilee medal and the 1937 and 1953 Coronation Medals. Also dont forget that these are not exclusively service awards and could be awarded for service in various civilian organisations but I am sure that Payne received his by virtue of being a VC holder.

[Pontius Navigator]

I've often seen it on TV where Costume would give a character 5 medals per row - an instant giveaway.

MC - commissioned only

My grandfather had two rows of medals in sets of 5.

He was awarded the MC as a Sub-Conductor Indian Army - a warrant rank.

The British Honours System has a set order for medals but the order of his medals was different from the order that Worcestershire Medals said they should have been.

So there you are, 3 errors on today's standards. He may have been awarded the MC when he had a temporary field commission. We are told he declined a commission as a WO1 pension was better.

[Pontius Navigator]

SASLess, the US decorations were known over here as salad dressing. Just how easy is it for an American to read them?

In UK the sets are virtually discrete, - pip squeak and wilfred in WW1 - a couple or up to 5 or so in WW2 with additional gallantry medals - a handful of Korea and GSM - then the modern clutch from Falklands, Serbia, GW1, GW2, Sierra Leone, and Afg plus a few others. There would be a few overlaps but the majority would be discrete sets worn by hostilities onlys or national service, and the current sets. Even so it is not easy to recognise them all.

My father had 5 and 2 clasps from WW2 and my wife's grandfather had 6, 3 from each war and her father had 5.

[TheWizard]

TTN

Thank you. I guessed it was something like that but couldn't find reference to it anywhere. Appreciate the straight answer. :)

[NutLoose]

Turning it on its head, a friend was showing some models he had built at a show and on the next stand a chap was showing his model of a Phantom off, some "expert" was standing there in front of the guy berating his work to all that would listen, that is wrong, they never had that, the cockpit wasn't like that etc etc etc.. The modeller getting fed up with this asked the "expert" how many hours he had on Phantoms? because he had over 500...... Lots of sniggers all round as the said expert shuffled off.

[500N]

"Non-WALT, Keith Payne has 1 brooch of 24!!! (God knows what that must have cost to get mounted - my 6 (inc minis) cost almost £100!!!)"


And every couple of years they seem to give him another medal or gong
from something or other so he has to get the them all re set !

1977
1982
2001
2002
2006
2012


Edit

I just noticed that he wears the Dhofar Campaign medals.
You learn something new every day !

[NutLoose]

He'd poke you in the eye on parade with that lot

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/702/bwpaynebgq7.jpg

His entitlement is (see pic below):
Victoria Cross
Australian Active Service Medal ( 1945-75 )
4 clasps: "Korea" - Malaysia" - "Vietnam" - "Thai-Malay"
Korea Medal ( 1950-53 )
United Nations Korea Medal ( 1950-53 )
General Service Medal ( 1962- )
1 clasp: "Malay Peninsula"
Vietnam Medal ( 1965-68 )
Australian Service Medal ( 1945-75 )
3 clasps: "Korea" - "SE Asia" - "PNG"
Queen Elizabeth Silver Jubilee Medal ( 1977 )
Queen Elizabeth Golden Jubilee Medal ( 2002 )
Defence Force Service Medal ( Australia )
Meritorious Service Medal ( MSM )
'Commonwealth of Australia' Issue
Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal ( LSGC )
'Australia' suspension: Medal of the Order of Australia ( OAM )
Distinguished Service Cross ( DSC ) ( US issue )
Silver Star ( USA )
Cross of Gallantry with Bronze Star ( Rep of Vietnam )
South Vietnam Campaign Medal ( Rep of Vietnam )
1 clasp: '1960'
General Service Medal ( Oman )

Victoria Cross - Keith Payne - VC sold (http://victoriacross.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ww2&action=display&thread=63)

And that was 2007, so he would have had some updates since then with the Diamond Jubilee .

Military Historical Society of Australia - Queensland Branch (http://www.mhsa.org.au/QldBranch.html)

[P6 Driver]

The photo of Mr Payne with his medals is quite an eye opener - they must weigh quite a bit!

[500N]

Here is a picture with him wearing most of them.

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/public-servants-politicians-in-free-jaunt-to-anzac-day-service-in-gallipoli/story-fn7x8me2-1226137245408)




Another good picture
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/10/17/1226169/132231-keith-payne.jpg

[Climebear]

Well it depends on your Service (and how big your chest is).

Trivia warning.

The Army's new guidance permits rows of 5 if they chest pocket is wide enough to accommodate them.

The RAF still has rows of 4 with only 1 incomplete row permitted (ie 5 ribbons = one row of 4 and one row of one - not one of 3 and one of 2 etc).

Both Services' regulations detail a requirement for a small gap between rows (3mm for the RAF); however, tailors don't seem to do this anymore.

Other slight differences between Army and RAF regs on medals is in the mounting of full size with the RAF limiting the width of the brooch to 5 (so 6 or more medals overlap) whereas the Army is more flexible depending (again) on the size of the individual's chest.

I'm afraid I don't know about the Senior Service as this enhanced level of trivial knowledge was only achieved when I had to help a major in my last HQ find the Army regs.

[Whenurhappy]

Climebear,

Thanks for all your info. A few years ago I was serving a 6 month sentence in Aldershot when another medal turned up. I took the lot to Glover & Rider who mounted them (very nicely, to) and did the 3+2 ribbons on my tunic. I subsequently attended the opening of the NZ memorial at Hyde Park corner and at the after-match I was cornered by a Sqn Ldr (solo QGJM) who promptly corrected me about my ribbons.

Fast forward 6 years. A colleague very kindly agreed to drop off my no 1 and tropical tunic to the Regimental 'Master Stitch' to be re-ribboned and to have the QDJM and a Commonwealth medal added to the lot. I received a note back stating the tailor was unable to mount the Commonwealth medal 'without appropriate documentation'. I faxed him a letter from DS Second confirming that the Royal Warrant was, indeed, valid in the UK. I'm waiting for this lot to return (and interested to see if the medals are overlapped now (8). Apparently there's been concern about soldiers, in particular, wearing unauthorised US medals given to them in Iraq and AFG. (Like colleagues, I have the US Afghanistan Campaign medal, but it sits in the draw with my cuff links and Mess kit watch and chain).

For Walt Hunting, spend an idle hour or two with our Antipodean Allies on Australasian Military Imposters, Australian New Zealand Military Wannabes or Wannabees (http://www.anzmi.net)

[sitigeltfel]

Four rows.........five rows.........pah!

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/sitigeltfel/medals.jpg

[Tankertrashnav]

Whenurhappy - if I've added up correctly you now have seven medals, so they should certainly be overlapped - the rule is side by side up to five, then start to overlap. Keith Payne's medals would be unwearable in that form, but take a look at Lord Mountbatten's group, I can't quite add up the total but he certainly had over twenty.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01459/mountbatten_1459014c.jpg

TTN (GSM 1962 and, err, that's it!)

[Wensleydale]

Four rows.........five rows.........pah!

They seem to be evolving into Dahleks... What is the Chinese word for "Exterminate"?

[Whenurhappy]

TTN,

Another one popped up in between my Purgatory in Aldershot and the presentation of the QDJM. By a Maj Gen with 14 medals (incidentally the only medal ever presented and not picked up in Gen Office or arrived in the post) so it's 8! Incidentally, when are miniatures overlapped?

On a related issue, I was shocked when a family friend - an avid medal collector - looked at my rack (!) of unremarkable round medals and then suggested what the market value was - especially when accompanied with provenance materials (photos, log books*, certificates etc). I have no intentions to sell them but those still serving and those who have left the Service might want to consider secure storage and insurance! I think I've reported previously that I had my medals and credit cards snatched in the GOM in Aldershot 6 years ago; RMPs investigated and the medals and cards were returned.


*my last entry was 22 years ago before I was, um rebranched!

[NutLoose]

I don't think they will be breaking in anytime soon to steal my solitary GSM, and my VC, GC, DFC, AFC and Bars attached to it are all fakes :}



.

[Haraka]

and my solitary GSM was on a home tour........... :O

[P6 Driver]

Sitigeltfel,

I believe your photo of the bemedalled Chinese fully vindicates the invention of the ankle length overcoat, to cater for those with much longer service and achievements.
:ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

whenurhappy - first point - I'm pretty sure up to 8 miniatures can be mounted side by side, but I would stand corrected if it's only seven. A half decent military tailor should know.

Second point - value. It can come as a surprise that a WW2 group of say 6 stars and medals might be worth less than £100, whereas it doesn't take much for a modern group of similar size to be worth in the thousands. As an example, a chum I know was a tanker pilot who got the South Atlantic medal, Gulf War One and the GSM with Air Ops Iraq clasp. Those three alone named to RAF aircrew would add up to £1,500 at least. NATO and UN medals, being unnamed, don't add much in the way of monetary value, but the more scarcely awarded 1977 Silver Jubilee Medal can add around £150. If you've got a few medals it's definitely worth having them professionally valued and added to your insurance as a separate item in the same way you might add an expensive watch or piece of jewellery.

Haraka - you're from Northern Ireland?

[November4]

I posted this on the Vets should be awarded the Jubilee Medal....... (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/485872-vets-should-awarded-jubilee-medal-3.html) about the value of medals.

Well...as a guide, and depending on your view, if you can put a value on your medals....

GSM 62
£60-85 NI Clasp
£170-0225 Dhofar Clasp
£400-450 Kuwait Clasp
£350-450 N Iraq & S Turkey Clasp
£350-450 Air Ops Iraq

OSM
£400-500 RAF

ACSM
£300-400

Rhodesia Medal
£350-450

South Atlantic
£500-600 RAF (with rosette)
£350-450 RAF (without)

Gulf Medal
£250-350 (with clasp)
£175-250(without)

Saudi Arabian
£20

Kuwaiti
£20-30 (third and fourth class)

Iraq Medal
£300-350 (With clasp)
£125-175 (without)

NATO service medals
£12-15

RAF LS&GC
£50-60

Silver Jubilee
£160-185

Golden
£70-80

(Prices from the Medal Yearbook 2011)

Using this guide, many servicemen on parade have well over a £1000 on their chest.

[Sloppy Link]

Miniatures for the Army are recommended to overlap above 9 but there is a lovely line that allows for the size if his or her chest and the style of Mess Dress.

[The Helpful Stacker]

November4 - That is an eye-opening list. To think, in monetary value, the collection of tin the RAF gave me and which I have in my wardrobe could be worth, at the very least, £1500.

[TheWizard]

Ditto the above plus a couple of other specific awards.Never really thought about the monetary value
Has anyone any success with standard household insurance?
Accepted that they would be a specific named item but what would they class them as? Jewellery?

[SASless]

Odd....we don't put Monetary value on our Awards and Decorations on this side of the Pond. However, we do put give appreciation for what the Recipient did to earn the Award.

My Grandpa who was nominated for the Medal of Honor as a Private and received the DSC for that action.....well let's just say it is a Family treasure that is now in the hands of his great grand son who is a Captain in the Army Special Forces. Good Hands it is in too I might add!

We pass them down .....not flog them off.

[TheWizard]

Well done you.

Personally, I was talking about an insurance value for if the worst happened and they had to be replaced. But then again we aren't allowed to blow burglars to kingdom come over here are we?

Climb down off your horse mate before you fall off.

[racedo]

Odd....we don't put Monetary value on our Awards and Decorations on this side of the Pond. However, we do put give appreciation for what the Recipient did to earn the Award.

My Grandpa who was nominated for the Medal of Honor as a Private and received the DSC for that action.....well let's just say it is a Family treasure that is now in the hands of his great grand son who is a Captain in the Army Special Forces. Good Hands it is in too I might add!

We pass them down .....not flog them off.

Good one :D

In 100 years plus when they have passed down another couple of generations they will be worth even more, not in monetary value but in historial value.

However they will need to have the full story of how they were earned and whom they were passed to relying, on each generation to continue to record this information..............that why it will be valuable.

Wondering whether its actually worth having all this written up with ink you know will last the generations, it done and presented in a presentation book / format that future generations will tip their hats about the bravery of men so long ago.

[NutLoose]

SASless they only tend to get flogged off when someone dies, there seems to be on the whole a lack of understanding what they mean through families, if that makes sense...

Totally agree with the Austrailian VC winners reasons for selling his VC grouping to benefit the family now while he is alive.. After all at the end of the day, the medal is simply a bit of tin, it's the man behind it that counts, the VC will simply probably sit in a bank vault and I wouldn't be suprised that the ones worn by him at functions etc are copies...

[Union Jack]

Odd....we don't put Monetary value on our Awards and Decorations on this side of the Pond.

Quite right and for good reason.:ouch:

Jack

[Courtney Mil]

Hmm, well, Jack, not so sure about that. No requirement to belittle anyone's awards. I think SASless's point is valid and it's not a competition.

[Pontius Navigator]

To go with my GF's MC we have the original listing in The Times. Curiously there is not corresponding entry in the London Gazette, perhaps bcause he was Indian Army. We also have a short, laconic note by him of why he won the MC and was awarded a Croix de Guerre. It tells not a lot :)

[NutLoose]

PN I can understand that too, you probably will find he was almost embarrassed to get it, similar to Flight Sgt Jackson on TV the other night who went out on the Lanc wing to try and extinguish it, he asked why him when awarded the VC and I bet a lot do, I was reading an article lately on a Naval VC and the guy just kept it in his "junk" draw with all his other bits and bobs and wouldnt talk or let on about it... Such was the humility of the guy.

[November4]

Hence why I said

if you can put a value on your medals....

Each to their own thoughts and those that want to sell them, well that's up to them but in my family, I have me great grandfathers medals, my brother has my grandfathers and mine are in my will as going to my eldest.

My wife's grandmother threw out her grandfathers when he died...and my father's was lost when his PEs went down with a ship when he emigrated.

[TT2]

I don't have any medals at all. I'm beginning to feel inadequate. I did get a gold star once in primary school. Do I get bragging rights on that?.

[NutLoose]

Never thought what I would do with my solitary one, got no kids to hand it too.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nothing so sad as something belonging and cherished ending up in an antique junk shop.

I saw a 120 Sqn plaque in one. Rotary and masonic regalia in another.

If you don't want to sell on eBay then consider donating to your former unit.

Opps, forgot, probably disbanded and forgotten :(

[Tankertrashnav]

Well I may only have one medal, but I have bought and sold many hundreds, if not thousands over the years when I had one of those "antique junk shops" that P-N refers to, so here's what I think of the subject.

There's a lot of precious nonsense talked about the trade in medals, including use of disparaging terms such as "trafficking". In my experience those who collect medals are almost always interested in researching the man (or woman) behind the medals, and often treat the medals with more reverence than the family who dug them out from a forgotten drawer and decided to raise a few quid on them. When collectors die, large collections of medals often come on the market again to be eagerly purchased by new collectors, and the process continues.

People talk of handing over medals to museums, and in some cases that is a good move. But from what I know of military museums they will all have a surfeit of the commoner medals on display, and unless you have something fairly unusual to donate it is likely to disappear into their storage vaults and never be seen by the visiting public.

Good luck to the guy trying to flog the 120 Squadron plaque, P-N. In my experience stuff like that sold like last week's fish, in fact I've still got one or two similar items knocking around in my shed left over from my unsold shop stock when I retired!

Oh by the way SASless - some Americans must sell their medals because I have bought and sold lots over the years - everything from a Navy Cross down, although I must admit I've never sold a Congressional Medal.

[500N]

Tankertrashnav

I know you are in the UK so US laws may not apply but I thought it was illegal to sell a MoH.


Re Medals, we seem to be very fortunate in Australia that some very wealthy people have seen fit over the years to buy as many of the VC's that come up for auction as they can and donate or loan them to the Australian War Memorial.

I just checked Wiki and it says they hold 61 of the 96 awarded to Australian Soldiers (not sure if this includes the two most recent VC's which have been handed them over to the AWM on permanent loan).


Still have my Grand fathers medals.
.

[brickhistory]

Tucson man faces charges of impersonating Air Force officer (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/tucson-man-faces-charges-of-impersonating-air-force-officer/article_84d6ede2-9de0-11e0-816d-001cc4c03286.html)

From earlier this summer (vaguely remember a photo floating around when it happened):

A Tucson man is being jailed until his July arraignment on suspicion he posed as a two-star general to get onto Southern Arizona’s largest military installation.


While dressed as a general, the suspect went shopping at the fort’s
commissary and post exchange and bought $62 worth of groceries and tax-free items, federal court records say.



Separate but related, when doing a book several years back (about Americans flying reverse Lend-Lease Beaufighters), I found that most of the gents had never spoken to their families about their wartime experiences.

They assumed that family wouldn't be interested and/or it was something they wanted to put behind them. They talked to me because I was not related and they knew the clock was ticking on them.

The families, of course, were wildly interested. They couldn't imagine grandpa being the hell-raising fighter pilot. "He's always just been Grandpa..."

We owe that generation everything.

[NutLoose]

I once served an a Squadron and I'm sure the Wing Commander was an imposter too...


Family members still cannot see me ever humping a musket about and my late Mum always thought I did nothing in the RAF..... Ahh.... you cannot get anything past your Mum :)


.

[Milo Minderbinder]

Hypothetical question, but
what are the rules on family members wearing a parents / grandparents medals as a form of memorial?
For instance could my son (aged 12) wear my fathers two from WWII at his funeral? (He's in his 90's now) Or at a rememberance day event?
I'm not suggesting he ever would, but I've seen it done and just wondered if it was actually allowed. If so, at what age is it acceptable?

and before anyone asks - no, I'm not military myself

[NutLoose]

Milo, see

Frequently asked questions about Medals - The Royal British Legion. (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/remembrance/medals/medal-faqs#wearing)

Seems wearing on the right is permitted. Ohh and long may he continue wearing them himself :)

[Bill Macgillivray]

Milo, I fear the answer is "No". You may wear your father's medals on the right breast of jacket/blazer but your son must wait until your demise.

[Courtney Mil]

Or he could just do it, in memory of and with respect to his grandfather, and, frankly, who in their right mind could possibly complain about that? Some semblance of common sense always.

[500N]

Over here in Australia, we now have lots of kids wearing Grandparents medals
and attending ANZAC day parades.

It is a good thing as for years the parades were not well attended
and whole generations turned off by the Vietnam war did not support
it and so none of the younger generation knew of the sacrifices.

This has now changed for the better so as far as I am concerned,
the more young people who can join in, have a connection and learn
what went on, the better.
.

The children wear the medals on the right.

[SASless]

TTN.....if you paid more than Retail prices for them you got ripped off! Outside most every Military Base is a Military Gear store that stocks them so the Troops can buy replacements for issued items if needed.

One example.....the long standing shop called "Ranger Joe's" located outside the Fort Benning School for Boys (US Army Infantry School, Airborne School, Ranger School and Officer Candidate School).


Medals @ Ranger Joes (http://www.rangerjoes.com/Medals-C289.aspx?s=OrderBy%20ASC&p=1)


A high priced source.....


Awards & Decorations (http://www.miluniform.com/awardsanddecorations-1.aspx)

[teeteringhead]

Valuation for insurance not a bad idea at all. Thought mine were nothing terribly special, total of 5 with a few extra bits and bobs on them, couple of them ( legally worn) foreign ones. Only odd thing I thought was that the two bars on the '62 GSM were separated by 31 years!

Got a rough valuation - £2500-3000!!! Gulp! All to do with "unusual combination" and "provenance" apparently. I'm sure TTN would understand - blowed if I do!

[Whenurhappy]

Teeteringhead,

That was in the region of the 'value' I was given (qv) for my group and had what is described as an 'Antique Roadshow' moment: Jaw drops followed by a descending 'noooh!'


The family friend (a well known collector) suggested for maximum impact to throw in uniforms and a sword (also qv) into any future sale. As I pointed out - firstly I'm still serving and secondly, I hope I can also persuade my kids to show some interest (Crash Minor has just started CCF RAF section...)

[Tankertrashnav]

TTN.....if you paid more than Retail prices for them you got ripped off! Outside most every Military Base is a Military Gear store that stocks them so the Troops can buy replacements for issued items if needed.


Well aware of that SASless. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, but I couldn't walk into such a store and buy medals, as I dont hold the documentation that proves I have been awarded them? The medals I sold have been 90% from these sources, I would guess. A recent example - I sold a Silver Star for around £10 which in no way reflects the rarity or prestige of the award - one with provenance and original documentation
would be an entirely different matter.

[SASless]

TTN.....all you need paper wise to buy the Gongs is Currency....US Dollars.....although plastic works fine too.

One can get a "one time free re-issue" from the Government to replace the original Awards and Badges but it is fraught with bureaucracy. the Army somehow determined by some random act of genius that Pilots were "Air Crew Members" and issued us all those Wings instead of Aviator Wings. After a few thousand of us reported the problem....to no good use.....most of us just went to the Gong Store and bought our own.

[unclenelli]

Milo
As I said before....

A Child can wear the medals of a DECEASED parent on the right and can wear the medals of a deceased Grandparent, providing the intermediary Parent is also deceased.

My Dad has my Grandad's WWII medals from Italy/N Africa. I cannot wear them.


But the norm is to only wear those of your parent, otherwise you could be a proud wearer of your own singular Diamond Jubilee, but unable to stand up as on your right you also wear every medal awarded to every ancestor since Hastings!!!

[Old-Duffer]

Several years ago, the former Army Sgt Major (Warrant Officer Class I - if you prefer) who ran the CCF unit at which I help, appeared in uniform wearing his own reasonably impressive set of medals.

On his right chest, however, he wore his father's medals. I pointed out two things to him: first, I didn't think he should be wearing his Dad's medals when in uniform.

Second and perhaps more importantly, if he felt the need to wear his father's medals, at least he should ensure they had been mounted in the correct sequence.

Old Duffer

[500N]

Is anyone going to walk up and tell a child on Nov 11 or Anzac day or
whatever day it is celebrated that they can't wear their father's
or grand father's medals ?



Old Duffer

What was his response ? :O

[AR1]

Here's my medal tally... No point in overdoing it.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee114/AR_1_b/other%20stuff/raf001.jpg

[SASless]

While in my rebellious period.....I used to wear two Ribbons only....the National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) the one you get upon enlisting and the Purple Heart (PH).

The message was that I showed up.....and got Wounded. Seemed enuff said!

[NutLoose]

NDSM) the one you get upon enlisting

We get nothing, we don't even get a beer with a shilling in the bottom these days..

[SASless]

Factsheets : National Defense Service Medal (http://www.afpc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=7803)

Tell me about the Queen's Jubilee Medals you lot garner when those events occur?

Do you really get a medal for celebrating an Anniversary?

[AR1]

That naked tunic is the result of 15 years hard graft SASless... My Brother in Law who was USAF F111 fleet finds it hilarious. Though to be fair if the Long Gong didn't have 'Good Conduct' appended to it, I would have had one...

[SASless]

My two Good Conduct Medals are direct evidence the US Army at one time had a sense of humor!

[Old-Duffer]

500N

The WOI's response was look a bit surprised that anybody should notice that his father's medals were in the wrong sequence and I told him just how. He subsequently left to pursue other interests. However, he is now back with us and the next time I see him in 'Full Fig' will be Remembrance Sunday.

I shall be fascinated to see if he wears his Dad's medals but, in a sense, wearing them the wrong way round is slightly disrespectful to his father's memory. Sorry if I sound like a prig (or even worse a Pleb) - but I am.

Old Duffer

[500N]

Thanks

No, you don't sound like a prig.

I was more surprised that a WO1 wouldn't have checked to make sure.
After all, they spent the latter part of their career correcting Soldiers
on dress and bearing !

If he had his own set of medals, not sure why he needs to wear his fathers.

[500N]

SaSless

"My two Good Conduct Medals are direct evidence the US Army at one time had a sense of humor!"

Many referred to the similar medal here in Australia
as 9 years for long service and undetected crime !

[November4]

We get nothing, we don't even get a beer with a shilling in the bottom these days..

You get a nice lapel badge....wear mine with pride and opened many an interesting conversations with others who wear it.

http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/images/badge.jpg

and worth a bit more than a shilling on a well known online auction site (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=veterans%20badge&clk_rvr_id=396527218639&keyword=veterans+badge&geo_id=32251&adpos=1t1&crlp=14227580709_2113181&MT_ID=12)

[charliegolf]

Do you really get a medal for celebrating an Anniversary?

After 32 years of marriage, I 'kin well ought to!:ok:

CG

[500N]

"Do you really get a medal for celebrating an Anniversary?"


Considering Her Majesty has been on the throne a quarter
of the time the USA has been a country, I would call that
pretty good going !

Probably hard for a person in a country where the President
is only around for 4 or 8 years !

(SaSless - I hope you appreciate the term I used to
describe your countrymen :O)

[SASless]

Some of them over stay their welcome at that too! Current occupant of the White House is case in point!

Betty at least is Royalty.

[NutLoose]

Many referred to the similar medal here in Australia
as 9 years for long service and undetected crime !

9 years?, we're just warming up in the UK, you need another 6 years, as it's a 15 year sentence here to qualify.

Current occupant of the White House is case in point!


Out of interest do you know why the White House Is White?

November4,
never bothered asking for my badge as I don't foresee a time I would ever wear it. I have only ever seen one person wearing one.

[500N]

"9 years?, we're just warming up in the UK, you need another 6 years, as it's a 15 year sentence here to qualify."


I think it is now 6 years from what someone told me when
I was looking at going to get mine - which I still haven't done:(

[NutLoose]

Sort of devalues it for those that did the full 9 to find it's now 6 years

[SASless]

Nutloose.....Some Brits think it was painted White to cover up fire damage from the War of 1812....but as usual they are wrong.

It was painted white to protect the Sandstone blocks used in construction of the building and was done so almost a Decade before your lot showed up in DC to carry out some urban redevelopment activities.

It is a good thing the British Military Weather forecasting service improved in time for D-Day...as it sure wasn't up to snuff back then.

Nice try Amigo....but no Cigar.:E





The exterior walls were constructed of sandstone quarried from Aquia Creek quarry in Stafford VA.

The presidential structure was painted white in 1798, (16 years before the White House was burned) in order to protect the sandstone from damage caused by water and winter freezes.

The name "White House" did not become official until Theodore Roosevelt issued an executive order in 1901, although there are many references to "the White House" that predate the war of 1812.

The British did not burn the White house until 1814 in retaliation for some buildings burned by American troops in Canada during the war of 1812.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Nutloose.....Some Brits think it was painted White to cover up fire damage from the War of 1812....but as usual they are wrong.

I've had to correct a few 'born and bred' Brits over that popular misconception and many others during my RAF service.

[parabellum]

Wearing the Queen's uniform on the stage in the UK is not allowed so one of the easiest ways around that used to be to turn the ribbons upside down.

Had a great uncle's Siege of Mafeking medal, (not to be confused with the much wider issued Relief of Mafeking medal), Spinks in London valued it at auction at GBP350-400, fortunately two collectors wanted it and it went for GBP1250.00. (Spinks checked the provenance out and that is how I found out it had been awarded posthumously). As TTN says, the collectors get the good ones!

Sort of devalues it for those that did the full 9 to find it's now 6 years

"We used to dream of six or nine years" - eighteen years in my time, nothing less!

In the price list of medals no mention of of the GSM'62 with clasp Radfan, won't be selling it, just curious.

[November4]

In the price list of medals no mention of of the GSM'62 with clasp Radfan, won't be selling it, just curious.

Medal Year Book 2011 says £90 - £120

The complete list prices for the GSM clasps is:

GSM 62

£70-80 Borneo
£90-120 Radfan
£60-100 South Arabia
£65-90 Malaya Peninsula
"Rare" South Vietnam
£60-85 NI
£170-225 Dhofar
£800-900 Lebanon
£1600-1800 Mine Clearance Gulf of Suez
£240-280 Gulf
£400-450 Kuwait
£350-450 N Iraq & S Turkey
£350-450 Air Ops Iraq

2 Clasps £80-120
3 Clasps £150-180
4 Clasps £220-280 (Guess these prices depend on the actual clasp combinations)