Visual app

[qwsa]

Hi!
I am going to perform a visual approach,RW is not in sight yet,but i am under VMC.When can i descend below MSA to start the approach?
Thanks

[Capn Bloggs]

By day, 30nm from the airport, provided you can remain clear of cloud, in sight of ground or water, vis 5000m and not below the min height for VFR flight...in Australia! :ok:

[bubbers44]

Sounds about the same as US. I never was concerned about the 30 miles however. I have done it out of FL180 on occasion.

[Check Airman]

I believe the 30nm thing is an airline /pt 121 requirement. I don't remember hearing it in the GA world.

The bigger question is, why are you doing a visual if you can't see the field? Which regs do you operate under? The FAA allows us to see either the field or follow the traffic ahead, but I'm not sure I'd be going below MSA just based on the other guy.

[737Jock]

My ops manual says the following (EU-ops):

Flight below Minimum Sector Altitude (MSA) A flight shall not be conducted below MSA unless:

• Under radar vectors at or above Minimum Radar Altitude; or

• On a promulgated route or instrument approach procedure; or

• In continuous visual contact with the ground and able to ensure adequate clearance from all obstacles affecting the intended flight path.

So no requirement to see the runway.

On a circling approach you are requiered to see the aerodrome environment, not the runway until making the final descent.

On top of that guys, on VFR flights most of the time you don't see a runway either. Is that dangerous?

[Nubboy]

For day ops into Dalaman, going visual early made huge sense as it avoided the much more sporting circling approach. (for those who don't know it, main runway N-S, in a closed valley with mountains on W, N and E sides, open to the sea to S. Diurnal wind meant landing to N at night, full ILS, and to S in day, either visual straight in or ILS to 36 followed by circle to land).

The company encouraged early visuals, including an excellent guide of visual points to pick up, before you saw the threshold. As long as you could ensure continuous ground contact/VMC for terrain seperation and situational awareness, as per 737 J's post, it was by far the easiest way in.

[bubbers44]

Tegucigalpa, Honduras was similar except the pass was north of the field and mountains all around. Getting an early visual approach descending to MDA allowed you to get below the cloud deck in the valley rather than leveling at MDA and flying into the cloud deck in the valley.