What Does Casual Mean

[hval]

Apologies for my odd question.

Have been invited to a civvy charity dinner tonight comprising Champagne reception, three course dinner and then a concert.

Dress is "casual".

What the heck does that mean? Have been trying to interpret this for days.

I presume that a jacket should be worn. What about a tie?

[airborne_artist]

Arrive in jacket and tie. Recce, and if the majority are sans tie, repair to the gents to remove it.

[pr00ne]

Casual means just that, casual. No jacket, no tie, no suit, no black tie, no lounge suit, just casual.

[hval]

Airborne_Artist,

Good suggestion. Thanks for that.

[hval]

Damian,

I suspect that Mrs Bloggs shall not be attending; more is the pity.

[hval]

pr00ne,

Casual means just that, casual. No jacket, no tie, no suit, no black tie, no lounge suit, just casual.

Eek! I would feel somewhat naked without a jacket. No tie I can do - just.

Is rather a "posh do". Do your recommendations still apply?

[Pilot.Lyons]

Shirt, jeans and shoes typical weatherspoons atire ol chap!

[Courtney Mil]

Depends where it is.

Austrailia, clean beach shorts and T-shirt. No budgies.

USA, baggy basketball shorts, sleeveless vest and cap on backwards.

France, stipped rugby shirt, beret, sting of onoins and tight shorts.

Germany, leather gear from your secret wardrobe.

Scotland, your second best kilt with a dead badger tied around your waist.

Wales, anything as long as you have a leek in your pocket.

Ireland, your little people outfit.

England (south), Chinos and a shirt.

England (north), cloggs, smelly tweed and a flat cap.


Hope this helps,

Courtney

[hval]

Anyone with a spare whippet?

Courtney, you mean you keep your special leather gear hidden? I presume I shouldn't wear my gimp mask in public?

[Courtney Mil]

Whipets, apparently, are specific to South Yorkshire, not North Yorkshire. Mrs Courtney is very adamant about that.

The leather gear doesn't have to include the gimp mask, but I understand it's now completely acceptable at any occasion in the UK. I've seen your pics on the internet and it rather suits you, in fact. Who was that with you in the photographs? I thought I recognised her.

[Courtney Mil]

Sorry, Damian, was addressing your point in previous post when you posted. Point well made, though. :ok:

[500N]

Courtney

A slight modification if I may !

from
"Austrailia, clean beach shorts and T-shirt. No budgies."
to
Austrailia, clean beach shorts and Singlet, thongs (flip flops !). No budgies.


T shirts are more formal wear !!!:O

[BATCO]

The dress code seems largely to have been replaced by specifying dress. So, 'formal' after 7pm has been replaced by 'white tie', and 'semi-formal' by 'black tie' and so on.

Your hosts have stuck wit the code, so go with it: casual = jacket and tie (so you have great freedom on shirt colour, tie design and trousers). As Airborne Artist said, do this, do a recce, and then adjust.

Batco

PS. The drawback of ditching the code for specifying the dress is that it usually only specifies what gentlemen should wear and the ladies then get away with virtually anything again.

[Courtney Mil]

Amendment fully accepted.

[Pontius Navigator]

Dowton Abbey the other night, formal shirts hidden, evening wear spoilt, so both leading males appear for dinner in 'informal' dress - soft white shirt, black bow tie, and a DJ. Just like we were taught back at ITS.

[airborne_artist]

I feel I must remind Hval that the tie if worn must be darker than the shirt, unless the wearer is a media luvvie.

[BATCO]

Not sure where or even whether written, so maybe there is some latitude. But, surely one does not attend a ball or dinner earlier than 7pm?

Batco

[Lordflasheart]

Quote - "7 pm ? Where did that come from ?"

A. ... Cut-off time for Brahn Boots.

[flynavysomerset]

A dress code of smart casual requires that you look smart but not overly formal.

Men should wear a jacket or blazer and flannels or chinos, not jeans.

A shirt and tie can be worn but an open collar is also acceptable.

Women should aim to be smart in a dress or skirt and top with a jacket or smart cover-up.

Avoid sportswear and wear smart shoes, never trainers. Equally don't be too formal; hats and evening gowns will look out of place.

Looks like airborne_artist is spot on.

Special Occasions - dress codes - smart casual (http://www.debretts.com/etiquette/special-occasions/dress-codes/smart-casual.aspx)

Regards

FNS

[Brian 48nav]

Gosh PN! What a memory! All I can remember about ITS is that us grammar school oiks were taught not lick the gravy off our plates at a formal function.;);)

[ACW418]

Brian,

I thought it was that you shouldn't lick the gravy off your knife!

ACW

[LowObservable]

Cut-off time for Brahn Boots.

Rowan-Martin routine:

Dan: You have brown shoes. Nobody should wear brown shoes after 5.

Dick: After five I usually don't wear anything. After three if they're doubles.

[NutLoose]

Dan: You have brown shoes. Nobody should wear brown shoes after 5.

Unless they're suede :O

[Blacksheep]

Debretts is too stuffy. Designer jeans are ok. One wears them to the Conservative Association Supper Club evenings - taking the lead from our MP. Casual jacket is of course, required.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Nor should brown boots be worn any closer to London than Windsor.

I remember, from CESR, that etiquette dictates that the guest's comfort should be the priority, and guests if any doubt should dress down. Remember that most people in the UK these days have no idea what real etiquette is, and treat the whole thing as a points-scoring exercise, so it's best to dress slightly up.

Airborne Artist has the safest policy, I reckon.

Canada casual (as far as I have observed): shoulders to thighs covered (attractive members of either sex exempted in summer), leave hunt kills outside, clean dogs allowed.

[BEagle]

There appears to be a new dress description for certain functions, described as 'business casual'....

WTF is that? Most ignorant civilians look like $hite in a collar and tie these days, as they are seemingly unable to knot a tie correctly.... This can be a problem; when I was at school we were forbidden to adopt the 'Windsor' knot (even though the abdication was at least 30 years in the past) and were only permitted to use the simple knot; however, RAFC insisted upon the Windsor so as a Flight Cadet I had to unlearn about 12 years of tie wearing experience overnight....:(

Mind you, some years ago the boss* of a certain VC10 squadron sent out some invites for 'informal drinks' at his MQ. Being something of a grammar school oik, he had the temerity to state on the stiffies he'd sent that 'lounge suits' should be worn, presuming that ignorance amongst his guests would equal his own lack of breeding...:rolleyes: This was manna from heaven for one chap (a Fg Off), who promptly turned up in some garish purple crushed velvet 1970s abortion with loon pants and enormous lapels, complete with flowered shirt and matching kipper tie - his wife refused to talk to him for several days afterwards!

Standards must be slipping if Debrett's has felt obliged to advise its readers to 'avoid sportswear and wear smart shoes, never trainers'. Good grief!

Designer jeans are ok.

Surely the term 'designer jeans' is an oxymoron?

*who might have been infamous for his trip to Phnom Penh in earlier years....

[Wholigan]

Harrumph --- dropping standards what? --- in my day --- disgusting what they deem acceptable nowadays --- no wonder the Empire fell --- was a time when everybody knew what was expected and strove to achieve it ---

;)

[Waddo Plumber]

"Invites"? "Invitations" for heavens sake.

[Pontius Navigator]

described as 'business casual'....

WTF is that? Most ignorant civilians look like $hite in a collar and tie these days, as they are seemingly unable to knot a tie correctly

A few years ago I had been working closely with two civilian contractors who were doing the preinstallation work for a new RAF-wide computer installation. We agreed to no-host dinner on their last night.

During the day I was in RAF smart-cas uniform, ie scruffy lightweight trousers and a dirty cheap, short-sleeved, open-necked shirt. They were in jacket, tie and white shirt.

That evening we met in their 3* hotel in our village. I was wearing jacket and tie as one should in a smart hotel. They were wearing smart-cas uniform, ie scruffy lightweight trousers and a dirty cheap, short-sleeved, open-necked shirt.

[November4]

WTF is that? Most ignorant civilians look like $hite in a collar and tie these days, as they are seemingly unable to knot a tie correctly

Day 1 of new job and I arrive in suit, shirt and tie...photo taken for staff directory.

Look at the staff directory and I am the only one with a tie.

[Genstabler]

I am the only one with a tie.
Then you should be proud of yourself!

[Willard Whyte]

One assumes casual means 'No gang colours or knives', as per a notice on the door of a watering hole once visited in Winnipeg?

[Willard Whyte]

This was manna from heaven for one chap (a Fg Off), who promptly turned up in some garish purple crushed velvet 1970s abortion with loon pants and enormous lapels, complete with flowered shirt and matching kipper tie

No need to refer to yourself in the third person old chap.

[BATCO]

DF
As an infrequent user of the Club I'm not au fait with the current rules. However, if we are to return to dress codes over specifying forms (acceptable and unacceptable) then why not something less formal for Running Horse and more formal for Cowdray?

Also, recalling the officers' mess scene from Lawrence, surely gentlemen would keep their opinion of someone else's dress to themselves.

Batco

[hval]

Well, good morning Gentlemen.

I must thank you all for the invaluable advice that you provided yesterday.

I did as AA, Courtney and Damian Suggested. I wore lederhosen, the gimp mask and clogs. I was unable to obtain a whippet, but was able to get hold of the neighbours goat. My partner "Miss Midnight the Bondage Queen" was dressed in thigh length black rubber boots, a very natty, extremely close fitting one piece rubber cat suit (in black) and a turqoise/ gold Venetian masquerade mask. With no pockets Miss Midnight thought that the chain and collar around my neck would admirably meet any possible requirements (I.e. it isn't a tie, but at the same time is sufficiently like a tie).

We were fashionably late for the event, that specifically stated "Please be on time". This was not down to any desire on our behalf to make an entrance, more due to the taxi driver turning up, seeing Miss Midnight, goat, and self on the footway waiting. The taxi driver slowed down, saw us, did a jaw drop, and accelerated away at a high rate off knots. I am guessing that he must have had a more urgent task. Unfortunately whilst admiring my natty dress sense he drove in to the back of a van.

We ended up having to ask our neighbour, who has a nervous tic and laugh, if she would be kind enough to offer her services. She did.

Upon arrival at the location for the event Miss Midnight, goat and self vacated the now somewhat smelly car. I don't think the goat can be blamed entirely. There were two doormen, both with bulging armpits. One, upon seeing us, reached out for the wall behind him. Unfortunately there was no wall, so he fell over.

We were eventually allowed in, sans goat. On entering the champagne reception area a waitress dropped her tray of Krug champagne; the string quartet in the corner stopped playing with a twang of a cello string; and silence fell very quickly upon the guests. There were a number of big, burly chaps dressed in dark blazers, dark glasses and wearing hearing aids who all reached for their armpits. It was interesting to see the effect on the guests. Not a few of the male guests looked me up and down in an admiring way, whilst the majority of woman just looked faint, sick, or both.

Thanks for the advice chaps. Not a single woman was dressed in something that cost less than £3,000. The men, all, wore jackets. Some wore ties, the majority did not.

It ended up being rather an entertaining evening. The guests did seem to enjoy the part when Miss Midnight whipped me in time to music from the live musicians. Did I mention that Miss Midnight had brought her whip along?

Will Miss Midnight and self ever be invited back to such charity events do you think?

Oh yes, if any one sees a white goat with black leather bootees, a Zorro mask and lipstick please will you be kind enough to let me know. My neighbour wants it returned.

[Pontius Navigator]

BATCO, it is.

[BATCO]

PN
Thankyou. I'll bear that in mind next time Mrs Batco and I visit UK. The next conundrum is what to wear to theatre. We have tickets in what is advertised as the 'dress circle'.

Batco

[Courtney Mil]

Well, done, hval, for maintaining standards. I must confess to one slightly nervous moment whilst reading your excellent acccount when it occured to me that we might have been at the same bash. I was relieved when you told us that no one else had your taste in dress - must have been different parties.

[Green Flash]

I was wondering how the back of my van got mangled.

And will you please get that damn goat off my front lawn. It's allready eaten most of the Gnomes.

[NutLoose]

Courtney Mil

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: RAF Finmere
Posts: 1,043
Well, done, hval, for maintaining standards. I must confess to one slightly nervous moment whilst reading your excellent acccount when it occured to me that we might have been at the same bash. I was relieved when you told us that no one else had your taste in dress - must have been different parties.


Would that have been one of those parties that Max Mosley used to host?:ok:



.

[Courtney Mil]

They all went down hill after 2008. We've the ex News of the World to thank for that!

[Union Jack]

It's always amused me that the apparently preferred casual dress of so many "middle class" British males is exactly the same as the preferred dress of the American working man - namely blue jeans and a blue pocketed working style shirt - almost exactly the same in fact as the working dress of the Royal and US Navies.

When I served with the RAN, I also discovered that the Australians who had served in the UK were equally amused by the fact that so many British males could not differentiate between casual and sloppy.

Jack

[500N]

"When I served with the RAN, I also discovered that the Australians who had served in the UK were equally amused by the fact that so many British males could not differentiate between casual and sloppy."

Probably because Australians have this idea that England is all stuffy
and people know how to dress, unlike here in Australia.

[ShyTorque]

When I served with the RAN, I also discovered that the Australians who had served in the UK were equally amused by the fact that so many British males could not differentiate between casual and sloppy.

Dress sense, or sex?

[Wander00]

There is a Sunday night TV programme that thinks "casual" is black tie!

[Courtney Mil]

Is that Smart Sloppy or Sloppy Sloppy? There is a difference, you know.

There is also "Casual Sloppy", "Sloppy Formal" and "A bit Sloppy, depending on the time of day Sloppy". It is, aparently, important to make these things clear.

[Willard Whyte]

Doesn't matter what I wear, veal with foie gras always taste damn fine if prepared well.

[Two's in]

A few years ago I came back to Blighty for a company "leadership" session in some anonymous (but expensive) hotel near Bristol. The course joining instruction said Business Casual. Working in the US Business Casual usually means smart chinos (no rivets or external metalwork), a polo shirt (no logos other than a discrete left breast motif). and "grown-up" shoes. When I arrived I was aghast at the UK management's interpretation of Business Casual. From about 50 people;

1. Most males thought it meant don't tuck your shirt in.
2. A good selection of both sexes thought it meant wear a t-shirt, the more offensive the motto, the better.
3. The senior managers knew it meant wear a suit and shirt, but leave the tie off.
4. There were a disturbing number of females unfamiliar with the "no bare midriff" rule, plus one very scary male exception,
5. About half the people there wore jeans, and a good percentage of those were the ripped and torn variety.
6. There were so many training shoes (OK, sneakers) being worn, I was convinced the hotel was fencing them for the Foot Locker looters.

Having been beaten into shape over the years by Betty Windsor's definition of dress codes, I'm obviously not as objective about casual wear as the average person, but this lot absolutely shattered my faith in civilians being trusted to dress themselves. I've seen smarter displaced Albanians and I 'm sure Mother Teresa would have thrown half of them out of a Calcutta Mission for being scruffy. So back to the OP, it's good to see that standards are still being applied somewhere, however archaic it might seems to Dwayne and Chardonnay.

[500N]

A couple of families here in Australia decided to go to the NZ vz Australia Rugby match. The two father's both went to Oundle together in the 50's / 60's.

Instead of the usual turn up and meet outside the ground, it was decided to make
a good night of it with drinks and dinner at one of the members only clubs in Melbourne so suits etc worn.

That was all good but the look some of us received walking down the
centre of Melbourne and at the game made one think that some had not
seen any sort of dressing up for a night out or even a smart suit in years.

[tarbaby]

Come to my house for a party, the invite always reads; Dress, men casual, ladies glamorous. Keeps everyone happy.

[Whenurhappy]

Hmmm, what does casual mean? We were invited to some drinks on Saturday evening with at a US colleague's residence (a Colonel). Smart casual was the instruction so for me it was brown boots, chinos and a blue long-seve shirt (double cuffs, of course) and my wife something obtained from Boden (and great looking, too). The Colonel and his wife wore likewise.

Other attendees were similarly casually dressed - but two US majors - one Army, one USAF - turned up in what I could only describe as beach leisure wear. The USAF Major (a J1 type) wore casual shorts, pulled up and held up with a leather belt with a tee shirt tucked in, long white socks and trainers; the Army bloke in basketball shorts and a sleeveless vest, as described earlier by another Ppruner (fortunately he had the muscles to carry it off!).

I've now just penned a short email to the USAF Major - not to upbraid him about his attire on Saturday - but to gently advise him on what 'casual' means in the UK Service sense - as I have just sponsored him to stay at the RAF Club in a couple of weeks. I stressed that the club was quite casual now, but that means in public rooms (similarly explained) proper 'pants', collared shirts, and proper shoes (not trainers) should be worn.

I hope I have avoided a major flap at the Club...and letters of indignation!

[Willard Whyte]

This thread reminds me, at times, of one of my favourite prog rock tracks.

Jethro Tull - Living In The Past 1969 - YouTube

[Pontius Navigator]

The USAF Major (a J1 type) wore casual shorts, pulled up and held up with a leather belt with a tee shirt tucked in, long white socks and trainers

That sounds about typical in the US for smart and equally typical for pre-7pm in the RAF in the tropics in the 60s although it would have been a short sleeved white shirt not a T.

I remember being lifted up from behind by the elbows by a diminutive Australian Air Commodore who whispered in my ear after the witching hour - "You and I Sir are incorrectly dressed. I suggest we rectify the matter."

I didn't hang around to see if he went and did that to everyone :)

[Union Jack]

When I served with the RAN, I also discovered that the Australians who had served in the UK were equally amused by the fact that so many British males could not differentiate between casual and sloppy. - UJ

Dress sense, or sex? - ST

Is that Smart Sloppy or Sloppy Sloppy? There is a difference, you know. There is also "Casual Sloppy", "Sloppy Formal" and "A bit Sloppy, depending on the time of day Sloppy". It is, aparently, important to make these things clear. - Courtney

Good answers so OK - I'll play..... Dress sense, or sex?

Jack

[Courtney Mil]

Both, if it's all the same to you!

[dazdaz1]

From reading the past posts, I take it there are working class people posting as to their interpretation as to 'casual' I shudder!!! Cutting the long story short, forgetting Ascot, Boat Race and other events where HRH is in attendance.

I would recommend a navy blue blazer, white shirt with cravat (paisley design) beige trousers with matching (if poss) a boating style of shoe.

For those of limited finances I have done a Google and found a number of home shopping catalogues who could supply the above items, although not the same quality as London bespoke tailoring, would pass in a darkened venue. Happy to help.

Daz

[Courtney Mil]

Paisley cravat:D:D:D:D

Oh God. I just remembered, I used to have one!

[NutLoose]

Somehow, that does not suprise me.... Did you have a matching frilly shirt?

[hval]

Oh God. I just remembered, I used to have one!

I still have mine. Found it the other day.

[Courtney Mil]

matching frilly shirt

I always wanted one, but never had the courage to wear it. I've always been the shy, retiring type, you see.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

I attended Beat Retreat at Horseguards with Mrs D'Sorderlee a few years back (her invitation, not mine). Dress code was, I believe, informal. I was shocked to see males arriving (after HMTQ!) in jeans and open neck shirts. How times change!

Duncs:ok:

[Willard Whyte]

I would recommend a navy blue blazer, white shirt with cravat (paisley design) beige trousers with matching (if poss) a boating style of shoe.

Not forgetting a tattoo on the forehead saying "tw@t".

[Courtney Mil]

Not convinced about the forehead tattoo, but it was good waking up to Jethro Tull this morning.

[Two's in]

Not forgetting a tattoo on the forehead saying "tw@t".

Surely somewhat redundant if one is already wearing a paisley cravat?

[NutLoose]

I always wanted one, but never had the courage to wear it. I've always been the shy, retiring type, you see.

http://www.onthecan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Austin-Powers-singalong-smaller.jpg

[500N]

That's who I was looking for the other day after the mention
of the Purple suit.

Didn't he wear one in the film ?

[Willard Whyte]

Surely somewhat redundant if one is already wearing a paisley cravat?

A more than fair point, I'll readily concede.

[NutLoose]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-uiVGbjnxfzdYHdVS5JPmB2GxtG-Ckpi-yI5u7TTMnq36Hstf3w

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414kAZ01QNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Old Bricks]

Once had to write to US visitors coming to conference in UK to explain that one particular function required the wearing of suits, and that a suit had matching jacket and trousers. Should have been more specific - you should have seen what some turned up in.

[Finningley Boy]

Willard,

thanks for the link to Jethro Tull, I'd forgotten how some of the songs went, brilliant refresher!

FB

[ricardian]

There was a a rather shabby pub in Tewkesbury which attempted to raise its standards by putting a hand-written notice in the window - "NO VESTS!"

[Pontius Navigator]

When I take my spear 't the theatre (to do do Hamlet) I usually ask my valet to recommend the attire for the evening - he's much more in tune than I am.

My batman would do that. He always knew if it was No 1s that day or stiff white shirt and waistcoat for dinner and recommend which suit on the appropriate evening.

[NutLoose]

Nasty stutter there PN.

[Pontius Navigator]

Once saw a guest at the RAF Club wearing a natty purple velvet suit. Knew immediately that he was not one of BEagle's contemporaries - his hair was too long and no hat.

[Barksdale Boy]

I seem to remember a notice at the excellent Fanny Bay Hotel in Darwin that said, "Clean vest and plimsolls on Sundays". At the same venue Jack M-S cut in on a local couple for a dance, whereupon the chap involved told Jack in no uncertain terms (four words, the third and fourth of which were Pommy b*stard) that this was unacceptable behaviour. Jack looked puzzled.

[Tinribs]

My Straddling defines casual dress as a lounge suit

[Heathrow Harry]

"Whipets, apparently, are specific to South Yorkshire, not North Yorkshire. Mrs Courtney is very adamant about that."

Whippets are to be found in all mining communities TBH but I really don't think they are an item of dress, they are a status symbol as they don't crap on your head as racing pigeons do

In the NE formal wear would be highly polished brown boots, dark trousers, a white shirt without the collar, a black weskit, white silk scarf knotted around the neck, black jacket and a flat cap

[CoffmanStarter]

Ecky-Thump Harry :ok:

[NutLoose]

There was a a rather shabby pub in Tewkesbury which attempted to raise its standards by putting a hand-written notice in the window - "NO VESTS!"


An certain drinking establishment I used to frequent in Carlisle that had a superb bowling green, one of the guys sitting out in the sun came in without his shirt on and the landlord told him in no uncertain terms he wouldn't serve him without a shirt, turning round he disappeared out of the door to return attired in his shirt, but stark bollock naked from the waist down, standing at the bar the landlord informed him that was better and that in future he would only be served dressed like that, needless to say everyone else was in stitches and it was only when he had paid for the drinks and stepped away from the bar did the landlord realise he had been duped..

[Tashengurt]

Come on NUTLOOSE, it was you wasn't it?

[BEagle]

Come on NUTLOOSE, it was you wasn't it?

Surely that would have made him NutsLoose?

[ShyTorque]

Both, if it's all the same to you!


Casual dress, casual sex.....

Either way, just come as you like.

[CoffmanStarter]

This character is worth a watch ...

YouTube - Major Hoad on Ties

[cuefaye]

Wholi, you said ---



--- was a time when
everybody knew what was expected and strove to achieve it ---

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


Nowadays nothing is expected, and nobody strives. Tis a new playground. We live in Chmn Mao's land of conformity - ie, Jeans. :{ Still have your sharkskin?

[NutLoose]

It wasn't me, he was in the Navy... If it was me they wouldn't be giggling when they saw me bottomless :ok: