Another No Particularly Important Discussion Thread

[Maxibon]

I met with a chap yesterday, whom I had my first ever fast-jet trip in a Hunter in 1984 in my penultimate year at school as an RAF cadet. He's still flying a plethora of types and thoroughly enjoying it after all this time. He made a comment, which really struck home, which I completely agree with: the 20th Century was the century of aviation, probably peaking around the 70s and 80s. Since then we've (the RAF) has lost a huge inventory and the fun/variety has gone.

I totally agree and put it out for comment, for no other reason than I'm stuck at home feeling groggy and bored.

Discuss...

[PeregrineW]

I'd have to agree. I served from 1976 to 1989, and at a rough count, there were 36 distinct types (not marks) of aircraft in service with the RAF during part or all of that period.

Sadly, I didn't realise what a golden age it was at the time, and many opportunities passed me by as a result. :-(

[Maxibon]

When visiting the NE of Scotland, I find it increasingly sad to see a complete lack of hardware around the skies, no more kipper fleet heading into KSS, and what was worse, the Mess at Lossie was a vastly different place to what it was in the 1980s, not just with the obvious physical rebuild, but socially and in spirit.

[racedo]

What he says is true.

As kit becomes more and more expensive and required to do more and more things the numbers purchased get substantially less.

The consequences of this is that there are less trained to use and the loss of one is greater because less of a fleet in the first place.

The desire of the powers that be to have more missiles and now more UAVs will no doubt end in a strange situation. Potentially FJ pilots in service and flying will become as rare in late 2030's as fully trained Fighter / Bomber pilots in 1930's.

[1.3VStall]

We've had a similar thread before and the general consensus was that the heyday of the RAF was the late 1960s/early 1970s, since when it has been continual decline.

[strikemaster82]

Nostalgia's not what it used to be. I remember when there used to be far more regular threads on PPRuNe discussing days gone by. Where are they all now?

I reckon the golden age on this website was about the year 2004... :E

[Tashengurt]

I'm pretty sure it was all down hill after the 31st of July 1997.

[Shack37]

We've had a similar thread before and the general consensus was that the
heyday of the RAF was the late 1960s/early 1970s, since when it has been
continual decline.


Heyday was May 1960 to May 1971
Decline started on 21st May 1971

Just my opinion of course.:)

[Jimlad1]

I'm sure if you look back far enough, you'll find people on 2 April 1918 complaining that the RAF had already had its heyday... :E

[Union Jack]

I'm pretty sure it was all down hill after the 31st of July 1997.

More like from 2 May 1997 ...... :rolleyes:

Jack

[BEagle]

I've just seen 3 fast jets within 60 min. Can this be a record.....:\

Back in July 1956 before Duncan Sandys killed the RAF, this is how big 2ATAF alone was in RAFG, let alone the RAF elsewhere:

2 Sqn Swift FR5 Geilenkirchen
3 Sqn Hunter F4 Geilenkirchen
4 Sqn Hunter F4 Jever
5 Sqn Venom FB4 Fassberg
11 Sqn Venom FB4 Fassberg
14 Sqn Hunter F4 Oldenburg
16 Sqn Venom FB1 Celle
17 Sqn Canberra PR7 Wahn
20 Sqn Hunter F4 Oldenburg
26 Sqn Hunter F4 Oldenburg
31 Sqn Canberra PR7 Laarbruch
67 Sqn Hunter F4 Brüggen
68 Sqn Meteor NF11 Wahn
69 Sqn Canberra PR3 Laarbruch
71 Sqn Hunter F4 Brüggen
79 Sqn Swift FR5 Wunstorf
80 Sqn Canberra PR7 Laarbruch
87 Sqn Meteor NF11 Wahn
88 Sqn Canberra B(I)8 Wildenrath
93 Sqn Hunter F4 Jever
94 Sqn Venom FB1 Celle
96 Sqn Meteor NF11 Ahlhorn
98 Sqn Hunter F4 Jever
102 Sqn Canberra B2 Gütersloh
103 Sqn Canberra B2 Gütersloh
104 Sqn Canberra B2 Gütersloh
112 Sqn Hunter F4 Brüggen
118 Sqn Hunter F4 Jever
130 Sqn Hunter F4 Brüggen
145 Sqn Venom FB1 Celle
149 Sqn Canberra B2 Gütersloh
213 Sqn Canberra B(I)6 Ahlhorn
234 Sqn Hunter F4 Geilenkirchen
256 Sqn Meteor NF11 Ahlhorn
266 Sqn Venom FB4 Fassberg
541 Sqn Meteor PR10 Wunstorf
652 Sqn Auster AOP6/9 Detmold

Whereas nowadays the RAF even has to rent its UAS plastic pigs from the civvies......:mad:

[diginagain]

Don't fret chaps; 31-Mar-18 is just around the corner...

[Pontius Navigator]

By 1976 I had flown in 12 different types not counting the helicopter on the other end of the winch, or 6 transport types, or 2 USAF, 1 RAAF, 1 RNZAF types.

[gijoe]

Life is going to be very different for those that join the RAF in the next few years...It will be nothing like the military, never has been, never will be...but the next few years are going to very painful.

G:ok: (Ret'd)

[Bob Viking]

I joined in 1999 and have since flown in 19 types (including 1 Canadian, 1 US and 1 civilian registered). Bearing in mind there are several types I have yet to fly in and most of the ones I have are still in service it's not all that bad.
I think we should maybe bear in mind that things change and get over it. Or we could spend the rest of our lives as bitter, twisted old morons gibbering about a bygone era. But then I guess Pprune would lose its' raison d'etre.
BV:eek:
PS. I have not included the Viking and Chipmunk which I flew as a cadet since they were before joining the RAF and seemed outside the scope of the argument!

[4Greens]

The golden age ended when Lossiemouth was handed over to the RAF.

[Fareastdriver]

The golden age ended when Lossiemouth was handed over to the RAF.

Rubbish! Lossiemouth was built by the Royal Air Force as a RAF station. It was lent to the Navy from 1946 to 1972.

I remember going there when it was a FAA unit. I was in the mess (wardroom?) one January morning with a freezing gale outside. Some burk was going around and opening all the windows. I asked him what the hell he was doing.

"Airing the ship, Sir."

[Fareastdriver]

Lossiemouth's in Scotland.

[Ron Cake]

I remember visiting Lossiemouth in the late 50s and being puzzled by some of the antics of the 'dark blue' inhabitants (they were known as 'fish heads' in those days). The sailors moved around the Station pretending they were on a ship. When they walked past the flagpole they 'saluted the quarterdeck' and when they wanted to go down town to Forres they had to wait at the guard room for a 'liberty boat'.

There was a story, probably apocryphal, of a bunch of visiting RAF types who, tired of waiting at the guardroom for the 'liberty boat' (aka, a truck) formed themselves into a squad then marched backwards out of the main gate doing rowing motions.

I suppose these Navy rituals had a a purpose, but it all seemed rather absurd to us.

[ExAscoteer]

The Navy were still doing that at Northwood in the mid '80s!

[effortless]

Still a bit of kit flying where I am, south of France. Same goes for the other place I've been staying but then Ramstein is just over the hill.


Where ever you go, there are fewer sorties. A mate was at Nellis earlier this year, he said he saw fewer aircraft. I suppose that they may all be in theatre. Who is increasing their inventory these days? Iran? China?

[Riskman]

I'm sure if you look back far enough, you'll find people on 2 April 1918 complaining that the RAF had already had its heyday... :EYeah, fishheads, probably.:E

R

[Mike Gallafent]

BEagle's table of squadrons in 2nd TAF, c.1956 stirred the memory cells...

In 1953 on 16 Sqn with Vampires, we were able to dog-fight around the hangars during Exercise 'Coronet' - reputedly, the simulated conflict between 2nd TAF and 4th TAF cost the lives of eleven aircrew. On occasion it was hair-raising... The realistic if lax doctrine, then extant under the Earl of Bandon the C-in-C, was promptly replaced with much more restrictive rules.

[SOSL]

Beags, you are my favourite anorak!

I think you were at university when 99 entry was flown out to Colorado Springs, via NY Dulles, in a 99 Sqn Brittania to spend a wonderful time with the guys at the American Air Force Academy.

Went skiing at Arapahoe Basin; gliding in the lenticular lift waves off the Rockies; got to drive a Corvette Stingray and the climax (if you see what I mean) was meeting a mexican nurse from Denver. I think we also went to some lectures but I can't remember them.

What fun!

Rgds SOS

[Finningley Boy]

It strikes me that the last Golden age, shall we say, was my own time in the R.A.F. it was book ended by the last two great fly pasts since the 1953 Coronation. I joined in 1977, just following the Queen's Silver Jubilee flypast, flown on both the 29th and 30th July, over Finningley. 128 aircraft altogether. I left in 1990, just after the 50th Battle of Britain Anniversary flypast on 15th September. About 166 aircraft, it carried on over R.A.F. Abingdon, minus two Spitfires and a Hurricane.

Despite greater justification for grand flypasts since, i.e. Golden and Jubilee Celebrations, none can hold a candle to those events of the past. Given the editorial by Simon Heffer in the Daily Mail today, I'm not entirely certain our lack of prowess today is quite justified by the lack of resources or lack justification position of our blasted political leaders. For one thing the present bunch place little store by it and perceive the wider public mood to be no different.:(

FB:)