Questions about floatplanes (amphibs)

[poonpossum]

Hi. I want to put some questions to you guys who are in the know about operating amphibs, specifically 206's. Any answers or advice would be really appreciated. I have attempted to answer these myself with Google to no avail.

- How would high winds in rough but sheltered water affect the aircraft while moored?

- How much water depth would typically be needed for the plane to float?

- Can amphibs reliably taxi onto hard pack sand embankments from water for the purposes of loading?

- Are amphibian floats and straight floats separate design endorsements?

- If no fluids leaked into the ocean, would you agree that the operation of a floatplane on top of the water would have little to no effect on the well being of marine wildlife? As there is not even a prop in the water, the only thing I can think of that would be distressing would be physically clobbering an animal with a float.

Any advice on the above or anything else relating to the operation of an amphib aircraft in salt water would be really helpful. Traps for new players, things you might think typically get overlooked, etc.

Normally I would ask these questions during endorsement training, but that would only occur after such questions as the above were answered, and not determined as a factor that would bring a halt to the plan.

Thanks in advance and any input is much appreciated.

[Aussie Bob]

- How would high winds in rough but sheltered water affect the aircraft while moored?

Wind will normally weathercock the plane into it and is not a huge problem. Leaving a float plane on a mooring unattended often is a problem though. The ones I fly are not insured when unattended in water. Hence we take them out of the water every night. In the case of an amphib it would be flown to an airport and landed wherever this was possible/economical or taken out like a conventional float plane if there was no airport nearby. Most floats leak in water so long term unattended risks a sinking. High winds would only speed up the ingress of water. More than one operator has found his/her pride and joy upside down with one float full after leaving it unattended.

- How much water depth would typically be needed for the plane to float?

Depends on the float and aircraft attached to it and the weight in the aircraft. Operations in water less than a metre deep would be risky in small float plane.

- Can amphibs reliably taxi onto hard pack sand embankments from water for the purposes of loading?

Dunno, never done it, I would think it would be a bad idea to try. I would load with the tail of the floats just out of the water on the edge of the sand with the undercarriage up. A correctly graded concrete ramp is all I would attempt to taxi up from water onto and only if it was an approved procedure for the particular setup.

- Are amphibian floats and straight floats separate design endorsements?

No but you need a retractable undercarriage endorsement for an amphib.

Download this book, it is free and a float plane bible: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/seaplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-23-1.pdf

[Piano Man]

P.M me if you want any more questions answered.

When I first started flying Amphibs, the best bit of advice is TO CONSTANTLY CHECK THE GEAR POSITION. If you have a spare moment in flight remind yourself about the position they are in.

[poonpossum]

Thanks for the replies guys :)

[xxgoldxx]

Used to see amphib float aircraft, beavers I think.. Parked on the sand at white haven beach all the time wheels down at low tide....

[iPahlot]

Traps for new players

Further to what PM said, the number one problem with amphibs is people landing wheels up on land or worse still, wheels down on water!

Amphibs also add quite a bit of weight, so you lose payload. There are a number of operators that have ramp or trailer setups for their straight floaties.

As far as eco friendly goes, there are lakes up in Alaska and Canada that only allow kayaks and float planes to access the waters so that speaks for its self.

[vee tail]

There are no issues at all with lowering the gear once landed on the water and then taxiing out to either a hard stand...ie Hayman Island loading paxs then sliding back into the drink and scoot off. Nor is there any issues doing the same on a hard and smooth beach ( obviously a known quantity ) and cruise on out of the water chill out with the punters in their bikinis thenpiss off again. The advantages of this are you dont really need to tend the A/C whilst doing other things...ie perving on said pax. Saying that if the beach on the shore or break line is a bit steep its much easier to hold the tail of A/C on the beach and its only a small step off onto the beach :ok:

Both Cairns and Whitsundays run straight float A/C which live permanently on the water. Cairns A/C are on moorings outside the harbour the others tied to a pontoon. Whitsundays also have amphibs as do many other places. I know in Broome the machine is not insured for sleep overs on the drink.:ok:

Many traps for floats but the biggest thing I have learnt that will save is bacon TAKE YOUR TIME. :ok:

[weloveseaplanes]

http://www.goldmonkey.com/pics/monkey7.gif

To operate amphibs you need reliable dedicated maintenance personal who will immediately start working on the plane at the end of each day. Failing that you need reliable dedicated maintenance personal (note the plural here) preferably on call and available at a moments notice.

Should you perchance be in charge of the operation or aircraft and not be a LAME you should learn, study, practice, volunteer and work as much as you can on any machinery. Expect to wake at 4:30am each day before the sun rises and finish work after the sun sets. Except for party nights you will learn to love crawling into bed by 9pm at the latest each night.

The aircraft, area of operations, customers, pilots etc are all secondary, and minor, and subservient to the provision of maintenance and all that entails. I would rather have a crap pilot with a crap business plan in a crap area with great maintenance support than a great pilot with a great business plan in a great area with crap maintenance support.

Flying skills are incidental, nautical skills are useful, a cool head is important, a conservative character is critical but maintenance skills are supremely important. The smaller the organisation the more this hold true.

Ideally your pilots should be LAMEs who want to fly seaplanes because they are cursed with seaplane sickness. At the very least they must have a deep dedication and empathy with machinery. Taking care means spending at least 90 minutes washing, cleaning, repairing, maintaining your amphib after every day it goes in the water. You'll want pilots who are in it for the lifestyle, which entails many beautiful sunrises and sunsets but also many hours of labouring in the darkness. In Smithy's days these pilots existed but I have seen very very few in this world of contracts and careerism - reference the endless discussions on pay and conditions that land lubber pilots are obsessed with.

You can forget your friends and family members birthdays but should never forget your maintenance personals birthdays as the lives of the people you fly are in their hands. If not a LAME yourself I pray your best friend is one or that your best friend won't get jealous when you spend more time with your LAME than him. Instead of looking only at nice pictures of seaplanes on beaches start looking at smudgy photos of grease monkeys swearing under seaplanes. This is the reality.

Many LAMEs can't handle seaplanes. A LAME not experienced and enthusiastic on seaplanes will screw one as quickly as a pilot who is aiming for the airlines. Interview and vet the mechanics in your area for a mechanic who is a) old b) experienced on seaplanes c) owns a boat d) will take rum in payment and share it with you e) old.

To operate amphibs you need reliable dedicated maintenance personal.

Find your salty grease monkeys before you fly your boat . . .

http://www.goldmonkey.com/pics/stuntmen.jpg

[Piano Man]

Vee Tail, no more straight floats around the Whitsundays. :E

[OCTA]

Anything over 20kts in a 206 unless the water is really sheltered will be pretty rough and as for leaving it in the water overnight in rough strong winds - unless the floats are sealed completely (they never are) I wouldn't do it. Most of the water when sitting on a mooring in rough water will come over the top of the floats and come in through the access hatches.

Yes they can taxi up onto hard packed sand as long as you are shown how otherwise you will spend some time digging the plane out and or waiting for the tide to come in!

For a heavy 206 you will need about 0.8 M of water to operate - 0.5 of water under the float keel is a minimum I would ever accept.

Amphibs are poor performers (particullay the 206) so don't expect to fill all 6 seats and go flying.

Make sure you get yourself a good endorsement not a quickly or cheap one as it will only bite you if you want to operate one in the log run.

PM me if you want more info.