50,000 pounds loan. tell me where!

[blueb0y79]

I'm currently doing my PPL in Shoreham on the south coast of England and need some advise. I would like to attend a school where i am 100% sure that it will be of benefit to me. AND THAT MEANS MONEY! Obviously good scholls don't come cheap (and i too believe that you get what you pay for) My parents are not rich so they cannot give me alot of money and i am not a homeowner. It's driving me crazy always trying to find a school that will take me from my PPL to ATPL as cheaply as possible. I have been looking at schools in Orlando, South Africa and i'm so desperate, even 'n the Czech Republic recently.

Please don't be sarcastic about people like us needing some help. THIS IS OUR FUTURE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT TO US. Most of you guys have been through exactly the same thing and we could all benefit from your advise and experiences.

So please post any messages that you think could be a help to us, no matter whether you think they are of little importance or not.

blueb0y79
(who WILL become a good pilot WITH or WITHOUT you)

[The Boy Lard]

BB079,

You will find that if you are asking a bank to lend you that kind of money they will ask for "belts and braces" security.

For example they will want/insist upon a house as secutrity (Min value on open market 100K plus- that way if you default they can sell it very quickly to realise the debt), they will want the loan insured, they wiill most likely insist that all your banking is done through them yadda yadda yadda, and so it goes on.

What I would suggest is very first BEFORE approaching both banks or parents is to prepare a business plan showing each and every cost you can think of down to how much per month you are going to spend on haircuts (Dont laugh it worked for me!) then see you parents and try to get them to use the family pile as security.

Once you have managed that my suggestion is to approach HSBC who do loans specifically for the ATPL. Look in your local branch for the Post Graduate and Professional Studies loan.

Good luck mate, its not going to be easy but then anything in life worthwhile never is.

Cheers

TBL

[DeeTee]

yep, all above correct.

Although my mate did get £30k of HSBC unsecured under the Professional Studies umberella, but that was quite a few years ago.

Wear a tie with red in it. You will need to make an appointment with an account manager/the bank manager. Tell em in advance that you will be making an appointment to see him/her to borrow £50k as a professional studies loan. Dont talk to them then, just run through what they need from you, any forms filled in etc. Make an appointment to come back. You'll need around an hour. Prepare a presentation/business plan (HSBC do give out packups on how to prepare a business plan), but basically you need to cost it all out in 1. short term (I spend all your money), 2. medium term (2-5 years, I get a job and start to pay back your money), 3. Long term (5+ years, I am a captain, I earn loads of dosh, I am suddenly in need of pensions advice, and a whopping mortgage, I will be a prestige customer)

Include all costs, especially things like fun money, a few quid here or there for a beer or a curry, hair cuts etc. your account manager may not know about flying, but he/she will definately know you cannot go for a year without unwinding now and then.

Factor in cock-up funding. We allowed 25% on all stages of our modular course. This will make the total look horrendous. It will be.

Explain how you intend to repay it. I got £44k, I am repaying it over 6 years. It's costing me £765 a month.

ESSENTIAL FACTORS!! Your loan is accruing interest from the second you take the first draw down of funds. So avoid paying up front if you can. As it is accruing interest you need to factor it in! If you need £50k at the end of the year that £50k you've spent is actually nearer £54k. So you have to ask for £54k to cover the interest on the £50k you need.

Keep in contact with your bank. I wrote four progress reports. one every 3 months. They were like mini accounts. it is critical that your bank thinks you are in control of your spending. So you must demonstrate that you know what is going on. Although the main reason for the reports was to ask for more money.

I borrowed my dosh back in early 97. I am informed that We were some of the first to get a professional studies loan for flying training, however HSBC are well familiar with it now, so you should not have to go through the battle we did to convince them that flying training is a professional study.

Also, if you are overspending. Let them know as soon as you do, and forecast how that is going to effect the overall spend. I originally borrowed £26k, increased it to £32k and ended up spending £44k of their money.

WWW. There used to be a thread on this subject, with loads of advice. I have tried a search but cannot find it.

Probably the last tip. if you finish your course and don't immediately get a flying job...don't be surprised it may happen. Contact your bank. HSBC professional studies loans do get you a 6 month repayment holiday, but if you are unemployed like I was for a year and a half that doesn't help. The hot tip is contact them as soon as you are back. Get yourself a nasty little job that you can drop at a days notice (I drove lorries, and cleaned river boats). And volunteer to cover the interest only aspect of your loan (its about £300 a month). The bank will love that. I did that from month 1 of finishing my course, when it came to month 6 the bank allowed me to continue on 'interest only' for a year and a half. My mate thought I was mad. He didn't do that, took full advantage of his repayment holiday. At the 6 month point he volunteered to go interest only, the bank wouldn't have it. he went onto repayments, and as he was unemployed for 2 years it really crucified him. The reason you need a job you can drop at short notice is simple. I got an interview on a Wednesday, phoned the next night and asked if I could start on the following Monday. As it was to fly RHS in a medium jet, with only 250 hours, for a scheduled carrier I naturally elected to give up my lorry driving job for the opportunity. I had a BSc (hons) in Information technology, but all jobs offered to me under that umbrella were contract for 3 months minimum. There is a good chance you wont get three months notice of your first job.

In the interview with your account manager. Don't offer anything. They will press for security. They will expect something. You spend your money first. In the end my Mum and Dad stood security on the loan using their house. It was a massive responsibility, especially the period I was unemployed. I probably need counselling after that.

bluebOy79...I know I may regret this later, but I still have copies of my presentation, so if you want a hard copy. e-mail me your snail mail address and I'll post it to you.

Best of luck.

DeeTee

[blueb0y79]

That's great guys

But how long after I get a job will it take me to pay it all off? DeeTee are you still managing to get out of it or is the cash machine showing a nasty minus still? When will I be able to enjo the financial benefits of being a pilot?

Oh, please don't stop answering the above post as the more views i get about this the better

I'm off to buy my Mum some roses etc etc etc

blueb0y79

[scroggs]

DeeTee
Quite a few (OK, thousands of) old threads were deleted a couple of months ago, in an effort to reduce the load on the server. The one you refer to may have been one of them. Not only that, but the archives have now been re-merged with the main forums. I'm assured that the new software means that we can now cope with full searches at pretty much any time, and the forthcoming new server should improve things still further. However, if you have problems do let us know.

[DeeTee]

Cheers Scroggs,

BB79.

Fair question. Things are going very well. Only about 3 years to go on paying off the loan. However, my current job allowed me the luxury of paying for the loan, buying a house and getting married.

Still enough dosh for the odd weekends away, frequent curries and not really any restricition (other than medical) on beer.

Obviously Mrs DeeTee earns an average salary as well, but she needs lots of clothes and stuff.

I decided an amount that I felt I could pay and timescale to do it. It all worked out at £765 a month for 6 and a bit years. The loan at interest only was £300 a month. Surprisingly that's hard to earn when you need a job you can cut and run from at short notice. Could earn many times that in IT on contract, but that was not an option. Also I would not have got my current job RHS in a shiney brand new medium jet if I'd had to give any sort of notice.

Amusingly, I had told the owner of the lorry company that I may have to cut and run at very short notice. He was a genuinely nice bloke and said that that would be okay. So when I heard on Thursday night I wondered in to see him the next morning with a monstrous grin on my face and told him it was my last day. He was genuinely thrilled for me. Really nice and and gave me an easy job that day and said, when I get back to knock off early and get myself some beers in.

He was almost as nice when on my return I side swiped his brand new BMW with a 7.5ton extended length lorry, totally ripping the front wing off it. All the other guys thought I'd done it on purpose and fell about laughing. He just said...'never mind, fill in an accident form'.

It isn't often you get to meet really nice people. All power to his elbow and best of luck in the lorry business guv.

[No. 2]

Hi,

I have just managed to secure a Professional Studies loan from HSBC for 25K. I will be graduating this July and have a graduate job with the MoD. They said that they wouldn't give me the whole lot, which I quoted at around 38K, and they expected some financial commitment from myself.

I went for an interview with the manager and basically gave them a cost breakdown of all the costs from a few different schools (inc. the cost of PPL, medicals, exam fees etc.). I broke the cost plan into two sections-PPL & hour building, and Professional training. What they agreed on was this- they would give me all the money for PPL & hour building and half towards the rest. So had I inflated the figures a bit then I would have been given more(and so in hindsight...).

I intend to see weather they will extend the loan amount, but for the time being I have to work hard for my finals and stop thinking about this!

Good luck

James

[DeeTee]

No 2.

Good points mate. The thing is it is allways going to cost you a lot more than you thought. we added 25% to everything and still spent it and more. I originally costed it at £26k and spent £44k.

The best thing is once you are on the road your bank will normally support you as you go. Provided you are up front and honest with them.

Having an agreement in principle No2. It is fairly straightforward to go back to them with revised costings.

As an example, I partialled my I/R on altimetry. Basically on flying into Glasgow I was given my go around instructions at about 7 miles (despite lots of prompts form me asking for them in advance). This immediatley followed a change in the local QNH by 1 millibar. I reset my primary altimeter, but neglected the secondary as I was getting my GA instructions. Anyway I flew the approach with the secondary altimeter out by 1 millibar. That's about 30 feet error, given that the accepted tolerances are 70 feet I never saw it. Anyway, that cost me a partial. To retake that bit I had to take off fly a circuit that involved 1 altimeter change and land. Total flight time 13 mins including taxiing...total cost £2,500. That's an unforeseen cost!! And they may be a few of them.

best of luck matey. £38k seems a bit low?

[jasonjdr]

Blueboy

You won't get a specific answer to "how long?", thats up to you and your future salary. You may have to specify a period of repayment at the outset (say 10 or 15yrs, anything less will make the repayments far too expensive) but you can change this after you obtain full time employment again. But try and get everything sorted before you give up work. It's far easier to get finance arranged with an income, rather than trying to get some extra dosh just before your IR when you're living on dried weetabix! :D :D :D

If you want a repayment calculator, drop me an e-mail and I'll e-mail one back to you. You just put in the interest rate, term, and loan amount and it will show you the monthly repayment figure.

[No. 2]

DeeTee,

I tried to keep the figures reasonable so that I didn't put them off too much. But I hope that I can re-negotiate a figure at a later date. The 38k was based on OATS figures including the MCC and all test fees and licence issue.

The thing I'm now worried about is getting enough hours after gaining a fATPL to be taken seriously-more £££!!

Thanks for the advice:)

James