View Full Version : EASA and FAA Part 61.75
sherburn2LA
5th Sep 2012, 04:03
From an old style UK PPL anybody care to speculate which of the following may be true
1) Convert to an EASA license but retain the same license # - no change
2) Convert to EASA it has new license # - have to reconvert to FAA and pay the fee for CAA to verify.
3) Convert to EASA but old UK PPL is still valid. FAA won't issue a new license because I already have one. Only any use for flying non EASA aircraft
4) FSDOs all give a different opinion and there is no ruling until I have a crash
5) Elect to 'lapse' to a LAPL but sine there is still a 'medical' can fly part 61.75 with new restrictions
6) Lapse to a LAPL and do a FAA medical and fly with LAPL restrictions
7) FAA does not recognise LAPL for purpose of 61.75
8) LAPL has diffrerent # from UK PPL and EASA go back to points 1 to 4
Bob Upanddown
5th Sep 2012, 07:38
As far as I know, the EASA licence will have a new number.
I would like this to be the case - keep old CAA licence which is an ICAO licence, keep FAA 61.75 on the basis of CAA licence which wont change and so remains valid on basis of old CAA licence, get EASA licence on basis of old CAA licence which keeps EASA happy and continue to fly EASA types on N reg carrying FAA, CAA and EASA licences to keep everyone happy.
The worse that could happen is that you have to go through the 61.75 validation process again and pay for a new FAA licence - as you may have done for the English language endorsement and the plastic card if your original FAA licence was issued on card.
As I understand, you need an ICAO licence to have an FAA licence issued on the basis of 61.75. Surely the LAPL isn't an ICAO licence so you could not use that for the 61.75.
achimha
5th Sep 2012, 08:12
Keeping the old license would only be good for some years in countries where the license needs to be renewed (every 5 years in Germany).
If having to go through revalidation for 61.75, the question is what would happen with the instrument rating, would it require me to pass the instrument foreign pilot exam once again? The IFP certificate is only valid for 2 years.
2.)
We have seen this many times.
Your PPL # may be 12345, your EASA PPL # will have an addional few numbers.
Your FAA 61.75 states "issued on the basis of pilot license # 12345" so you need to go through the again.
Your flight review is still valid.
And no, your Instrument rating should carry over.
Maoraigh1
5th Sep 2012, 19:51
I've been worrying about this. It'll affect a large number of pilots, and involve a lot of work for the FAA. Is any organisation willing to approach the FAA (or a Representative) to try to get them to accept the number changes?
(You cannot get a new FAA licence while the old one is valid, but it can be revalidated on a new licence.)
When my license number was changed from the old number system to the JAR one (due to an address change) the FAA Inspector spent a lot of time trying to find out why my old number had been revoked. He didn't believe me.
SunnyDayInWiltshire
5th Sep 2012, 22:28
There was a report in the last AOPA magazine that an approach had been made. Let's hope that the FAA/CAA can work something out fairly quickly, to avoid a long period of uncertainty. It would seem sensible to have some one-off arrangement which avoids the need for everyone to revalidate and pay the CAA fee again.
But until something is agreed and announced, I think B2N2 has summed it up correctly.
This isn't new, it has been going on for years.
First with the "National" PPL being renewed with a JAA PPL, same thing occurred. An additional few numbers and having to go through the motions again.
Same thing all over.
When my license number was changed from the old number system to the JAR one (due to an address change) the FAA Inspector spent a lot of time trying to find out why my old number had been revoked. He didn't believe me.
FAA inspectors are not omnipotent, some of tehm may have never dealt with a 61.75 certificate to begin with. It just all depends on who has desk duty that day.
But it's still free.
Bob Upanddown
6th Sep 2012, 16:26
This isn't new, it has been going on for years.
First with the "National" PPL being renewed with a JAA PPL, same thing occurred. An additional few numbers and having to go through the motions again.
Same thing all over................
But it's still free.
Lots of pilots still have CAA "National" lifetime PPL's and did not convert to JAR. Lots of Engineers still have their old CAA licences as well as Part 66 licences so what is stopping a pilot keeping their old lifetime CAA PPL as well as an EASA one?? The licence CAA PPL supporting the 61.75 will still be a valid ICAO licence which, I guess, would still be recognised outside the EU. The EASA licence is just another piece of paper issued to keep the EU gravy train running.....
No, it isn't free, that's the point. The CAA demand a payment to tell the FAA you are current. And, if you can't make it to the USA,..... well that's another story, another cost and another argument.
CAA PPL supporting the 61.75 will still be a valid ICAO licence which, I guess, would still be recognised outside the EU.
Well Bob, European licenses have expiration dates and upon renewal you will be issued the new "flavor of the day" being JAA, EASA, EARSA or UPMYARSA.
This will now void their US 61.75 certificate.
No, it isn't free, that's the point.
Yes, it is. The FAA does not charge for this paperwork excercise, the CAA does.
sherburn2LA
7th Sep 2012, 01:06
European licenses have expiration dates and upon renewal you will be issued the new "flavor of the day" being JAA, EASA, EARSA or UPMYARSA.
This will now void their US 61.75 certificate.
A UK PPL is not going to expire but if the 61.75 has the same restriction of only being valid for non EASA aircraft it will be as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
I'm having a blond moment and failing to understand what you are trying to say.
A 61.75 is most of the time (not always) required to fly a N-reg.
The new rule, as I understand it, is being implemented between April 2012 and April 2014.
The new rule being if you are a EU citizen and you operate a N-reg you need both sets of certificates, EASA and FAA (61.75).
sherburn2LA
7th Sep 2012, 15:22
My 61.75 which I use to fly US aircraft in the US is only valid in conjunction with UKxxxx and I must abide by its restrictions. Which means I can't fly at night or Special VFR or VFR on top all of which is fine. But after April 2014 the UKxxxx will be restricted to flying non EASA aircraft (such as Tiger Moths) only or so I have been led to believe and unless someone (the FAA preferably) says otherwise this restriction would then apply to my 61.75 also.
Maoraigh1
7th Sep 2012, 21:57
A 61.75 is dependent on a foreign licence, on whose number it was issued. My CAA licence will soon only be valid for non EASA aircraft.
I will receive an EASA licence, whose number will probably be different.
All rentable aircraft in the US are EASA aircraft - ie fully certified aircraft.
Some parts of the new EASA/National system seem crazy, as I understand them at present.
I can fly at night in the US. That restriction was removed some time ago.
Maoraigh1
8th Sep 2012, 21:37
I understand my CAA ICAO lifetime licence will only be valid within the U.K - according to the CAA. (Is understand the right word? Believe? Fear? Suspect?)
Gomrath
9th Sep 2012, 21:11
It has been stated on numerous occasions, why not simply remove the 61.75 restriction and get yourself a totally unrestricted FAA certificate.
For folk who have a single requirement for example a one off vacation trip to the US - then a 61.75 is fine but if you intend to actually use it on a more frequent basis - then it is difficult to be sympathetic for you having jump through ongoing hoops and paying the CAA fee over again.
Also remember you will have to do it all again when the FAA photo certs come into effect.
Bite the bullet and separate your nationally issued license from the FAA certificate and be done with it.
Bite the bullet and separate your nationally issued license from the FAA certificate and be done with it.
Words of wisdom Gomrath.....:ok:
Bob Upanddown
11th Sep 2012, 08:18
I am not sure if our friends based in the USA realise what is happening in EASA-land.
Yes, a standalone FAA PPL is a great idea but, on it's own, it will soon be worthless in Europe. It used to be that you could live in Europe, have a standalone FAA PPL/IR and fly an N registered aircraft anywhere in the EU.
Between now and 2014, you will need an EASA licence as well as your FAA licence to fly an N registered aircraft in Europe.
I would think the idea that you could in the future quit flying for many years, pay nothing, and still have a pilot certificate (subject to a non-fee biannual and medical) indefinitely would be motivation enough, regardless of 61.75 issues. It'd be a non-perishable asset
A friend kept his FAA licence current but allowed his other European licence lapse. Come 2014, he will be grounded. The FAA licence may not perish but the ability to use it in Europe will.
Between now and 2014, you will need an EASA licence as well as your FAA licence to fly an N registered aircraft in Europe.
This is not correct! As from 2014 official and unofficially 2016! Universally unknown is that it cannot happen without permission from the USA! As EASA failed to realize that they are tied to an existing agreement with the USA so big ?????.
Pace
Bob Upanddown
12th Sep 2012, 08:03
Pace
You have posted this snippet about requiring FAA / USA approval before. It would be interesting to know where this comes from.
Considering that EASA have effectively blocked approval of the Robinson R66 over a petty issue, do you really think the fact that they should have approval from the USA to make changes to FCL requirements is going to bother them a jot?
Remember, the Eurocrats stopped us using imperial measures to hurt trade with the USA.......
Bob
I cannot disclose my source but there is a missed legal agreement in place which would require the FAA make changes themselves for it to happen.
Even EASA have to comply with the Law or they themselves end up in court which would happen on a number of issues which are against EU law anyway.
Would the FAA facilitate? My guess yes on the basis of you scratch my back I scratch yours.
Regardless from what I know i do not think 2014 will happen. There will be an extension to 2016.
Pace