RAF Coppering up the pennies

[Yozzer]

The latest sign of desperation in RAF Finance is two officers assigned by CAS direction for six months to validate AIP awards since 2004 and staff recovery of wrongly awarded AIPs. It is likely to cost more in their salaries then they could ever hope to recoupe.

FWIW, I tried to get my second AIP a few years ago as I held two of the documented qualifications required for the award and had no joy whatsoever as the differing Qs were required to be obtained at different rank levels, and I had already claimed one. The 'So what' is that the application procedure appeared absolutely watertight; free of human interpretation or perception and therefore impossible; or so it seemed, to claim unless 100% entitled.

I am assuming that this development is being driven by a significant abuse of the system probably by an entire trade group; but how it could have come about is beyond me. For sure if SP have made a genuine application for an AIP and it has been approved by the adminers, it seems a little harsh for the suggestion of fraud and risk of repaying what could be an eight year pay rise to be thrown at them at this stage. AIP cannot be processed by an individual alone.

The 'Tax payer' in me thinks that the SO2 assigned would be better employed elsewhere. Likewise, if we have resorted to 'coppering up' the loose change, what hope have we got of a bright future. This will have everybody who has claimed either of the two permisseable AIP watching their back which will do much for improved morale. :confused:

[Wensleydale]

I didn't think that Aeronautical Information Publications were that controversial....

[jayc530]

I thought the defence budget had been balanced?

BBC News - Defence budget 'balanced' - Philip Hammond (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18054731)

[Courtney Mil]

Oh good. Another witch hunt. The morale meter in CAS's office must have been reading too high.

[Rossian]

...OK I give in - I know I've been out for a bit, but what is AIP??

The Ancient Mariner

[Pontius Navigator]

One of my Sgts qualified for one when he was a cpl then as a sgt got a degree and qualified again.

I think he also got a cash award from Air Command.

Good man, 2 degrees in 4 years and left to teach at a primary school.

[Tiger_mate]

AIP = Accelerated Incremental Progression.

Everybody is entitled to two during their career. To qualify you must complete and sucesfully graduate from a qualifying course. There are very few qualifying courses and all are documented. I would suggest that its inception was to encourage career development in completing courses that the service needed people to go for such as QFI/CSRO etc. I too believe that the administration to achieve an AIP is robust enough to stand the scrutiny of an auditor. Whoever shortcut this system has a good story to tell! ...for it does suggest that the gate is being bolted after a chap succesfully fled the field. IBN 33/12 refers.

[WPH]

Is AIP available to Officers? I thought that it was NCOs only.

[Avtur]

Available to all

[Red Line Entry]

JSP 754 Section 03.0602:

...AIP does not apply to officers.

[rockiesqiud]

How are they going to reclaim the money from those of us leaving today? And what is the justification to change the goal posts? I put in for my 2nd AIP in good faith and it was approved by my OC. Will the money reclaimed pay for anything useful? Doubt it

[muttywhitedog]

On the other hand, they will be paying out to one of my MTDs who submitted an AIP in June 06 only for some chimp not to put it onto JPA correctly and she has been one increment down for 6 years!

[Stuff]

We covered the cause of this back in May http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/484301-over-paid-fifteen-years.html

If you read the IBN that came with the audit it said that would decide what recovery action, if any, would happen after the audit was complete.

Sounds like the beancounters want a number more than they want the money.

[ukcds]

I'm sure in the interest of fair play honesty and integrity, they will also trawl through all those people who are entitled to an AIP but has as yet not claimed it ......Or B

[TheWizard]

AIP = Accelerated Incremental Progression.

I would suggest that its inception was to encourage career development in completing courses that the service needed people to go for such as QFI/CSRO etc.

Just so nobody gets false hopes, CSRO was never subject to an AIP.

[Tiger_mate]

I only know of one person who has managed to get both his AIPs, and one was Q-CSRO as a Sgt and then QHCI as a FS. Other options for WSOps included Q-SAR and that was about it. AP 3392 Vol7 Leaflet 802 which whilst almost certainly a legacy document now, was the reference at the time.

Remember you must apply for these at differing ranks. I also had CSRO and QHCI but could only claim once as both were achieved at the same rank. Unfair methinks but it is what it is and as I suggested earlier; the application process is very black and white.

[Avtur]

Thanks Limitation, Glad to see there are people with the capacity to provide immediate and accutate references to such inpotrtant matters.

[TheWizard]

I only know of one person who has managed to get both his AIPs, and one was Q-CSRO as a Sgt and then QHCI as a FS. Other options for WSOps included Q-SAR and that was about it. AP 3392 Vol7 Leaflet 802 which whilst almost certainly a legacy document now, was the reference at the time.

Remember you must apply for these at differing ranks. I also had CSRO and QHCI but could only claim once as both were achieved at the same rank. Unfair methinks but it is what it is and as I suggested earlier; the application process is very black and white.

That must have been a very long time ago then. Never heard of Q-CSRO before (25 years serving).
AIPs have always been trade group specific (inc Airman Aircrew/NCA) and as far as I am aware CSRO (as was) isn't.
I know, as I tried to claim as a CSRO and got told to do one!!
JSP754 Annex Ch 3 Section 6 refers.
At least your friend will be pre 2004 and he won't get a request for the Government's money back if he did indeed get his AIP approved! :ok:

[GalleyTeapot]

Claiming both AIPs wasn't difficult, you can claim both as a Sgt if you wish and have the quals, or do as I did and claim one as Sgt and one as FS. They re-worded the JSP for WSOp (EW) after I complained to the trade sponsor that the qual I been working for, after being told by Kinloss that AIP was available for that qual, to find it wasn't on the list when I applied for it.

[sitigeltfel]

Meanwhile the Royal Navy have launched "Operation Clawback". How does someone not notice a £17k overpayment?

Sailors' wages docked after £1.2m MoD error - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9519448/Sailors-wages-docked-after-1.2m-MoD-error.html)

I suppose the government needs the money to pay MPs expenses :rolleyes:

[Courtney Mil]

$17K? Probably not all in one go.

[Spot 4]

It is time that this became newspaper headlines. Can you imagine for one minute the response from Trades Unions that such petty action would received if imposed on a civilian workforce. I am not usually a 'Union man' but the fact is that military men/woman from all variations of coloured uniform are being targeted to reclaim every penny possible. This on top of already massacred claims and allowances packages meaning that many now subsidise service travel and essential equipment out of their own pockets.

If the system has ****** up for whatever reason then the same system should bite the bullet. A pay freeze for several years is bad enough without being leaned upon in this manner over petty overpayments, especially as nobody has sugested for one minute that fraud is involved.

The morale meter is sub-surface in the descent and way below safety altitude. There is going to be an admin train-crash soon.

[OutlawPete]

It is time that this became newspaper headlines. Can you imagine for one minute the response from Trades Unions that such petty action would received if imposed on a civilian workforce. I am not usually a 'Union man' but the fact is that military men/woman from all variations of coloured uniform are being targeted to reclaim every penny possible. This on top of already massacred claims and allowances packages meaning that many now subsidise service travel and essential equipment out of their own pockets.

Concur fully with that, Spot 4. They're on rocky ground with this one legally. Any AIP awarded was surely approved in the first place so none should have gone through that the recipient is not entitiled to.

I remember reading the guidelines when they first came out and it struck me how vague they seemed, almost as if it was designed to trip people up or confuse them so they didnt apply.