Thomson Recruiting from Monday 3rd Sep

[Matey]

Thomson will be advertising for F/O and S/O positions on the B737 fleet from Monday 3rd September closing at 1700 Friday 7th September. Check the following site from Monday.

Welcome to TUI Travel PLC - a leading international leisure travel group (http://www.tuitraveljobs.co.uk)

The Job Ref is: TUI836-1 and the position will feature in the Hot Job section on the front page of the website from Monday morning. The only way to apply is through the above site. CVs will not be accepted.

These are for summer 2013 placements with similar take home pay to the CTC scheme but also paying Flight Duty pay, Flexible Working opportunities (payment for working on days off) and including other Thomson benefits unlike CTC.

[otrex]

I think you need to double check the dates you've posted!

[Matey]

Sorry...the closing date is Friday 7th September. The following is from recent BALPA information to Thomson pilots:

"Cadets would be selected and trained under TOM auspices either in house or by another contracted TRTO to achieve their Type Rating and then operate with us to gain valuable experience operating large jets. They would join on an 8 month fixed term contract. The 8 month period reflects 6 months over the summer season and a period of training beforehand.

The Cadet will have his Type Rating cost taken by salary sacrifice so will leave him with an income of £1,295 a month.This is subject to tax at the marginal rate so they may pay very little tax after the personal allowances have been taken into account.
But the biggest difference from the current practice is that these cadets will now also receive Duty Rig and FDA and receive Loss of Licence Insurance, Private Medical cover, be able to opt into a pension if they choose to, (the same as current pilots) and be subject to Schedule F including flexible working, duty rig and FDA. This should add around £800 a month to their salaries and they may also be able to earn flexi too when they commence Line Training.
Overall this is cost neutral to the Company in comparison to the current CTC process but instead of the balance going into CTC’s pocket it goes directly into the Cadets’ pockets. They may earn over twice as much as they would have done under the CTC scheme and be well placed to join a career airline in Thomson Airways in the future as well."

This has come about as a result of recent negotiations between the Thomson BALPA Company Council and the Company following recruitment of cadets from CTC this summer. (Just coming up to their Line Checks on the 737 as this is written.) The idea being to direct more of the income to the cadet rather than to CTC.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Wow. This is big news isn't it? Any idea what the minimum requirements will look like?

[Matey]

That will all be on the website Monday. The selection day consists of a group exercise, interview, and an individual problem solving type of scenario.

[fade to grey]

Wow , £1200 a month - almost enough to live on.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Beats paying for the privilege.

[Lumpawarrump]

They are only after 737 type rated pilots.

[Matey]

With regard to only wanting type rated pilots that is incorrect. Successful applicants will do a type rating course upon joining, repaid by salary sacrifice over the period of the contract.

As regards the comment regarding "£1200 a month", I would say to read the post outlining the conditions negotiated by the Thomson BALPA Company Council. The practise of cadet recruitment CTC style is a matter over which current employees have no influence at all. Any issues re that should be addressed to the CAA who, as the regulator, approve such recruitment policies. At Thomson we have been embroiled in a whole raft of negotiations with the Company regarding pensions, salary structure and changes to current terms and conditions. The recruitment of CTC cadets has already happened at Thomson under the "usual" conditions where "£1200 a month" is the norm. The Company Council took the negotiations around other matters as an opportunity to influence the conditions under which cadet recruitment took place within Thomson. The result is that cadets will benefit from Flight Duty Pay, Loss of Licence cover, opportunities for paid "flexible working" on days off, full protection of our industrial agreements regarding rostering etc (Schedule F), all things that the Company were not considering. This will considerably increase the cadet's pay above £1200 by diverting the money away from CTC and into the cadets pocket instead, as well as providing much improved conditions in areas such as rostering etc.

I simply posted this information initially to bring the Thomson recruitment situation to people's attention as the window of opportunity is short. Good luck, and I hope to see some of you on the line.

[EGCC4284]

Matey

How are you

ex 737NG Thomson driver here

I was one of 100 who left you in 2010. Not my choice.

Shame you're not offering full time jobs or I would of considered returning

Great company back then, would never of left. Loved the job and loved everyone I worked with.

Some info I am asking for a friend of mine looking for his first flying job ?

Can you confirm


Thomson will pay up front to the type rating company for the rating and the cost will be taken from the wage thus leaving around £1200 a month.


Can you also confirm, will the candidate be receiving the £1200 a month from day 1, ie from when they start the type rating course ? and will all accommodation cost during training be met by Thomson ?

[magicmick]

I hope that they have good IT/ server infrastructure as the rush to get applications in during the very narrow application ‘window’ (more like an arrow slit) will make the recent Olympic tickets rush fiasco look insignificant and a server crash would not be helpful.

On the face of it the deal looks good and the initiative to direct money to the cadet rather than CTC/ placement company is to be applauded, there are a lot of operators who should be taking notice of this. Not sure if they prefer integrated or modular cadets or whether they don't care.

Many thanks Matey for posting the useful info, it’s obvious that you are speaking from a very informed position and I would trust your info above anything from most other contributors to this thread.

Good luck to all those that manage to get an application in (as long as you’re not luckier than me). I look forward to joining you in a very long and disorderly ‘cyber queue’ next week.

[Matey]

EGCC4284

Hi there, I believe all the people who sadly left through redundancy are being contacted, but as you know it is to apply for the post rather than be re-employed automatically. You probably know better than me how many, but a significant number are now working elsewhere, mainly in the Middle East, and will probably not want to return unless for a full time contract. My information comes only from documents produced during negotiations with the Company (which I was not personally involved with), and an email sent to us all by our regional manager yesterday. I would assume that the answers you seek will be set out on Monday, and I can only offer my understanding until then, but

1. Yes The Company will fund the type rating and then recoup through salary sacrifice.

2 Yes as far as I know salary will be paid from joining, but obviously additional payments such as Flight Duty Allowances and Flexi Working opportunities would only kick in once line training has started. I stress that this is my understanding, and folk should check the online information when it is posted on the TUI website.

3 Don't know about accommodation costs, check the website. The Company will either complete the training themselves under our TRTO, in which case it will be done near Gatwick at Boeing Flight Training in Crawley, or they may delegate to another provider probably CTC in Southampton.

The current 10 CTC cadets started the type rating in May 2012 and are all in the process of completing their line checks now. Their contract finishes at the end of October. They have all been rostered for at least 60 sectors of line training before line check, and should accumulate around 400 + hours of NG time by October. What their situation is as regards these vacancies for summer 2013 I don't know. Presumably they will be able to apply, but I don't know. I also don't know the number that the Company is seeking now either before anyone asks as this will depend on the take up of Voluntary Redundancy, Career Break etc from the existing workforce. There are 15 Commands being generated as part of the recent negotiations, so that may also generate some space for new joiners.

[EGCC4284]

Matey


Yes I got an e-mail yesterday. Well at least they e-mailed me as they said they would.


Yes I am now in the Middle East and doing ok. Earning nearly 3 times as much if you take my free house into consideration. Time to command is about 2-3 years for me here, so to return for a 50% contract would be a silly thing to do.


I hope that they employ all 10 CTC cadets before anyone else. If they don't, they have been shafted. At least allow them to go through the selection process before anyone else applying does.


15 Commands, that's good news

[Libertine Winno]

It seems Thomson (and their current staff?) need some applauding?

It's refreshing to hear an airline actually value their cadets and take the power away form the big FTO's such as Oxford, CTC, FTE etc. Doesn't actually cost them anything either, so seems like a no brainer.

Still not perfect I know, but far better than what preceded it. Here's to more where this came from!

[Bealzebub]

Wasn't the £1200 a month simply a return of the bond monies during training? If this is to be substituted by a "salary" then before people applaud too loudly they should consider that the former is not taxed, but the later would be. In such a case it may be "cost neutral" to the company, but wouldn't necessarily be so to the successful candidate.

There are other CTC partners that already pay for the type ratings as part of the placement. They also pay allowances, flight and duty pay etc. during the placement period. In addition some are also offering full time contracts on completion of the placement period.

Any additional placements have to be a good thing, but the exact terms should be read and understood when they are available, rather than speculating on too many "mights and maybe's" of something that isn't as yet published.

[Matey]

Some further information has come to light and it now appears that these positions will indeed be for type rated pilots on a permanent contract rather than cadet entry pilots. The contract basis will be on what is known as PPY50 (Permanent Part Year) where successful applicants will work full time over the summer for 6 months and then 2 weeks on 2 weeks off the remainder of the year. Total salary will be 81% of full time salary. The option to convert to a full time contract is available on the 6th anniversary of joining if they wish, or earlier if they wish subject to availability of a position. Terms and conditions are the same as for a full time pilot.

My sincere apologies to those who were led to believe this would be for cadet entry pilots which was my original understanding. When/if cadets are recruited the terms will be as stated in previous posts.

[Lumpawarrump]

Hate to say I told you so, I was hoping I was wrong.

[yeoman]

Maxed Out and Lump

Don't despair! As part of the BALPA team that thrashed this out, the specific aim of the exercise was to take on our own Cadets and train them in house thus removing the big hitters in the TRTO world from their current pretty much exclusive position. We wanted to be able to take the best candidates from whatever background and because we wouldn't be paying agency fees, we could pay the cadet more and still be cost neutral to the company.

IMHO the only reason we are not taking on cadets this year is because we have a fairly big pool of known quantities in our sadly recently redundant colleagues and in the CTC guys currently with us, none of whom will be needing the full Type Rating that a cadet would need. We are also going through a huge refleeting programme which this winter will see 100+ of our pilots change type and bluntly, we don't have the training capacity for another 25-30 full ratings.

I firmly believe that we will be looking at cadets sooner rather than later BUT DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT:p

When we do, the deal is already sorted. They will join on an 8 month fixed contract and earn somewhere in excess of the £1200 PCM quoted because they will get FDA etc and yes, we did count the taxation factor in it. In that time we would expect them to get to somewhere beyond Final LIne Check standard.

At the end of the 8 months there will be no commitment either way. The cadet will have the 738 on their licence and some experience from a quality TRTO and can seek employment elsewhere owing nothing. The company MAY take them on the next year on the PPY50 deal on a PERMANENT contract as above but that will depend on availability and also whether they've been up to scratch in the cadet year.

TRTO means Type Rating Training Organisation and Cadet in this context means no type rating and frozen ATPL plus all that MCC stuff that is way after my time!

[pudoc]

What happens after the six months? A 737 TR and how many hours? Less than 500? Would you be back to square one? Ryanair wouldn't be interested in you.

Although despite that, it's nice to see an airline show they care about their cadets...although that salary is :mad: and I'd rather work for Ryanair where I can get thousands of hours and not just 6 months flying.

[taxistaxing]

All sounds like great news, or at least light at the end of the tunnel. Particularly for those embarked on the modular route. Perhaps the stranglehold CTC/OAA have had on the junior end of the industry is loosening... :ok:

[magicmick]

Ah well at least the low hours ladies and gents (myself included) won’t be crashing the Thomson servers now.

Good luck to all those that do apply, I hope that those recently laid off by Thomson will get first refusal. I guess that this opportunity along with the Jet2 recruitment of rated F/Os might offer a lifeline to those that have paid for a 737 rating and time on type, bit of a bugger if you invested in A320 series mind but I’m sure that their time will come.

Thank-you very much Matey, Yeoman and Lumpawarrump for taking the time and effort to come on here and share your information and inside perspective.

If Thomson do recruit cadets in the future and they genuinely run a competitive recruitment scheme with modular and integrated applicants treated the same without any influence from the integrated schools recruitment departments then that is definitely something to be applauded and may well set a very significant precedent. If other operators (Easyjet, Monarch etc) instigate a similar open cadet recruitment policy there will be a huge impact on the likes of CTC, OAA/CAE, FTE etc as one of the major justifications for the extra expense of the integrated course is the opportunity to be placed on cadet courses that are not open to the modular masses. Anyone considering starting an integrated course in the future might want to consider this possibility.

I’m sure that if/ when Thomson start recruiting cadets that the integrated schools will be falling over each other to try to fast track their graduates in and it will be interesting to see if Thomson recruiters resist their efforts or whether old integrated only recruitment policies remain.

[Lumpawarrump]

Yeoman
Thanks for that ray of hope. Its nice to see your definition of a cadet as a pilot who has worked their a~#e off to get those necessay bits of paper (Integrated/modular/military) and ready for the next step.
Its a shame PPY is being adopted by pilots in thomson, I know the cabin crew who are on these contracts get frustrated at leaving their positions for a few months of the year, to take up bar work. They are rusty at their jobs on return and unable to get mortgages due to the temp contract.
But good news all the same.

[Groundloop]

Although despite that, it's nice to see an airline show they care about their cadets...although that salary is :mad: and I'd rather work for Ryanair where I can get thousands of hours and not just 6 months flying.

And how many of those "thousands of hours" would you be using to pay-off your hyper-expensive Ryanair Type Rating?

[twogoodstarts]

does anyone know roughly how long you would stay on this part time contract before being made 100% ?

[Locarno]

And how many of those "thousands of hours" would you be using to pay-off your hyper-expensive Ryanair Type Rating?

I managed to pay off my Ryanair TR within 1 year.

Now all I have to do is make my way through the massive CTC-Screwing over and I'll be debt free. I just wish this news was coming through when I 'graduated' from CTC - it's certainly encouraging and a great ray of light for the industry.

[Matey]

There will be no period where PPY pilots are not employed. The deal is work full time for six months over the summer and then 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for six months over the winter. Salary is just over 81% of full time.

After 5 years of PPY50 you will then have the opportunity to change to a full time contract. Should a full time position become available sooner than 5 years that opportunity will also be offered to PPY pilots.

[turbine100]

Yesterdays advert was for rated experienced crews, not cadets. I believe the cadet schemes that are being discussed, may happen sometime next year.

[Poose]

Matey/Yeoman,

Would it be possible to clarify a few points? :confused:The intake next week is definitely not for NON-TYPE RATED applicants/Cadets

Secondly, would this ‘hypothetical’ NON TYPE RATED “fATPL holder” intake... which is a possibility for next year be a permanent contract like this PPY one recruiting next week, or would it be a temporary affair?

While it is highly commendable what Thomson are trying to do and the sentiment is greatly appreciated - if the target market is Modular candidates, then the plan may very well be flawed from the outset... if indeed a temporary contract is all that is on offer.

All of the Modular candidates I have met, myself included, are following that route through necessity or because they were reluctant to take a higher financial risk at an Integrated school.

Thus, we could not give up our existing employment for a temporary eight month contract on the off chance that we may get re-employed the following year...

Modular candidates are on this path because we generally have responsibilities or possess no financial support, whatsoever.

If it is a temporary contract then the only people who would be able to take up this opportunity would be the ‘wealthy’ - who by default, can be out of work for an indeterminate period. So... in essence, the only people who could apply for this position would be those without responsibility, who can be out of work at the end of the eight months and those with a lot of cash to tide them over...

Not wishing to take a swipe at any particular group, but is that not the usual profile of the average Integrated Student? Young, no responsibilities and with a decent amount of financial backing...

If this cadet intake next year is a temporary contract – then there won’t be many ‘true Modular’ candidates in a position to benefit from it. I’m sorry – but it had to be said. :{

[yeoman]

Poose

It was ever thus and although it will be absolutely no consolation to you, 15 years ago I was you, starting on my second career and doing it the self improver / flying instructor route although I was lucky enough to get a part sponsorship.

To answer your question: It is possible that non Type Rated pilots could get in this time around but honestly, very unlikely. The specific profile stated is only there because we have a very heavy training load this winter as we refleet a lot of our current pilots onto the 737. The problem is not a lack of trainers or sim time, more a lack of Line Training Sectors. The Type Rated pilot would need a minimum of LT Sectors.

Next on the list this time would come those without a current 738 Type Rating but another preferably Boeing glass cockpit type as again, there is a reduced training requirement.

Finally are the cadet entry which I suggest is your category? Yes, there will probably not be any opening this year and if and when, the first year will be on a fixed 8 month contract on minimal pay as you suggest. The good news is that you will depart after that 8 months with what I like to think will be some quality training behind you (I'm a trainer!), a modern and in demand type on your licence and some experience of some of the trickiest airports in Europe under your belt. I understand that when the training load allows, the Head of Training is keen to have a wide mix of recruits.

When we in BALPA negotiated the recruitment terms recently we specifically aimed to widen the net beyond the traditional training providers and break the strangle hold which I sincerely hope will capture good candidates from the modular route. as we are not paying administration fees we successfully argued that the balance should go to the cadet and thus be cost neutral when compared with the status quo.

After your 8 months you will owe nothing and the. Company is not obliged to take you on next year. The advantage is that if you do well, why wouldn't we want you back? If you do come back, you will come back on the Permanent PPY deal as previously described but will not have any reduced salary at all because you've already payed your dues as a cadet.

So, like the curates egg for you, good in parts.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

[Poose]

Yeoman,

Many thanks for the quick response!
Things are much clearer now. :ok:

In the words of General Melchett from Blackadder...
"It looks like I might have to sit this one out with the fat wheezy kids and those with a letter from matron..."

Simply could not take the financial risk...
Gutted. :{

[Lumpawarrump]

Poose I don't think modular guys n gals are the target market here, it would be open to all, regardless of how the individual gained their ticket. Which is a good fair competition.

Being a mod fella myself, I have had to make the impossible possible to hold down a job and complete my training and then go on to keep myself current.
If an opportunity like what TOM offer comes up, I would give one of my duplicated body parts to be on it. I would then have to consider seeking any kind of employment whilst TOM decided if they will have me back. That's me, but we are all different.

[yeoman]

Max

This is a rumour network so take the following with lots of salt!

It is possible that we won't get enough suitable candidates who are NG rated AND current as per the present web page so if you are not, don't proceed with that.

IF ( note big IF) that comes to pass then it may be that they widen the net to probably NG non current and so on. Again, VERY BIG IF.

I'm not sure how many would want to come from LS and RYR to think of two NG operators, most Baby are probably Classic only?

Who knows?

Hope it helps

[Poose]

Lumpawarrump,

For some of us the severity of the risk can be too great...
Eighteen months ago I ended up high and dry with no job as a result of the Government's SDSR.
When you have been down to your last £200 and potentially facing bankruptcy - with everything you've worked for about to evaporate... Well, it tends to focus the priorities. :uhoh:

The price of financial security in my life has been thoroughly ingrained into me ever since as a result...
If it has made me 'financially risk averse' then so be it; but when you have debts from putting yourself through university and a 20k unsecured loan for your CPL/IR - then your job is booted from under you, it makes you look at temporary contracts on offer from the airlines with a slightly more cynical perspective.

I am speechless when I hear about the amount of debt that some of the Integrated blokes have found themselves in... I view their plight with genuine concern.

All I'm saying is 'buyer beware' - but it sounds like the Thomson pilots and BALPA really have tried to level the playing field somewhat.

Good effort! :ok:

[pudoc]

And how many of those "thousands of hours" would you be using to pay-off your hyper-expensive Ryanair Type Rating?

0 hours. As I was smart enough to make sure I could fund a TR before starting training.

[Mile High Nutcase]

I'm being a bit of SMARTARSE here but i'm gonna apply for the job even though i'm not type rated. obviously if i don't get through and my application is binned, hopefully i'm not stepping on anyones toes.

let me explain why.....

When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''

Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??

I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??

[pudoc]

Probably shouldn't have said that on such a huge forum. Now everyone who doesn't have a TR will apply. :)

[Lumpawarrump]

Poose - Sorry to hear you have had it so bad, Im sure there are many cases out there similar, I too have my own story. There should be somewhere we can all go to console ourselves (with free gov funded beer). I hope the right opportunity turns up for you.

[I'm Off!]

Not type rated but still gonna apply
I'm being a bit of SMARTARSE here but i'm gonna apply for the job even though i'm not type rated. obviously if i don't get through and my application is binned, hopefully i'm not stepping on anyones toes.

let me explain why.....

When starting the application, one of the first questions is ''Do you hold or are you able to hold a current type rating on ......''

Now i don't HOLD a type rating but i certainly AM ABLE to hold a rating, am i not??

I probably won't get the job but still gonna try. Gotta be in it to win it eh??



Idiots... What they require is perfectly clear. If you apply anyway, your name will be remembered and they won't appreciate you wasting their time when they already have hundreds (or thousands) of applications to sift through.

[Whitti]

This all sounds great to me. I've recently finished my cpl/ir training and am at the beginning of the long struggle for my first flying job. To see an airline such as TOM decide to avoid the current ctc/oaa route is exciting and I hope others follow.

Even if it is only 8 months initially it can provide a step up to other options, and as yeoman said on a previous post, if you're good then there's the chance you'd be kept on. I would personally jump at it, even though it would mean leaving a permanent ops job at another airline.

Out of interest can yeoman/matey or anyone else shed light on how this came about? Was it TOM lead or BALPA, to avoid the 'integrated only' approach with big FTOs? Perhaps BALPA may promote the idea to other airlines.... here's hoping!

[yeoman]

Whitti

just to be clear, after the 8 months the plan is that you would NOT be kept on in continuous employment. What I said was that if you are good then the following year the chances would be better as you are a nown quantity and of course that is dependent on a requirement for recruitment the following year. On a brighter note, things change all the time in aviation as the current crop of CTC cadets have found. They are now well placed to throw there hat in the ring. I would not discount the possibility of you joining us on a fixed 8 month cadet deal only to find that half way through we suddenly have a need now, all I'm saying is that it is possible but by no means certain.

As for the initiative, we were locked in discussions with the company on a raft of issues all around reducing costs part of which was a salar scale for new joiners. As a Company Council we sat down to consider or Mission Statement (Ugh, Corporate :mad:!) but it gave us a good steer on where we wanted to go. One item was for TOM to be "A career airline of choice".

From that one of our number had a Road to Damascus moment and after about 5 minutes we realised we could make it cost neutral to the company, breal the strangle hold of some organisations where despite selection processes, ability to pay was still a factor and not healthy for the industry and finally, put just a bit more cash into a cadet's pocket and have a structured career path for a cadet entry. Win - win -win.

We presented it to the company and they agreed - Why wouldn't they? So BALPA idea, open minded company (at least on that bit!!!!).

There has been quite a bit of interest from Big BALPA on a number of things we have done so you never know, the concept might spread.

APOLOGY

In an earlier post I alluded to Baby pilots being only Classic. What I SHOULD have done is ready the bloody criteria better because of course it includes 300-900! I sincerely apologise if my post came across as dismissive of non NG rated guys.

[vikdream]

I am sorry but I don't understand why Thompson would employ CTC cadets for 8 months, pay for their TR and then let them go. It makes less sense if we think that they are looking for new pilots...

[yeoman]

Vik

It would not just be CTC cadets, our defintion of a cadet is a guy with nothing more than a Frozen ATPL, it doesn't matter how s/he came about it.

As to the why, very simple. The nature of the charter business in the UK is still one of massive demand in the summer, less so in winter. If a company takes a pilot on full time they are paying them to work hard in summer and less so in winter. The money men love the idea of having enough full time guys to cover the winter and hiring in contract pilots in summer.

BALPA hates this contract free for all, it drives down just about everything but that is an argument for another place. This scheme is two way, we get pilots flying punters to wherever for 6 months after the first 2 months or so of groundschool and sim.Yes we train them but the other side is we get the extra pilots we we need in summer but don't have to pay them when we don't need them in winter and the company gets its money back for the training by means of a significantly reduced salary.

It isn't perfect but it is a whole world better than contract and IMHO a whole solar system better than the no fly, no pay FlexiCrew type set up which I find abhorrent and not far off the 1920's working man hoping to catch the foreman's eye at the factory gate in order to get a days work and pay. If he failed, he starved.

The added bonus here is tat the cadet is subject to our full MoA agreements and gets allowances etc on top and because there is no middle man there is no skimming off the top of what is left from repaying training costs, it goes to the cadet.

I have tried very hard to not stir up the debate on the rights and wrongs of the practices of certain training organisations but this scheme opens up the field to other pilots trying to get that all important first job. No matter what anyone says, these schemes depend to some extent on the ability to pay and if you can't pay or can't take a year + out of your life then options until now were limited.

Consider this; two identical candidates, both excellent. One is 20 and has the ability to raise the funds and has no responsibilities. The is other is 25 and trying to change career and cannot raise the funds because he has a mortgage, a wife looking after a baby who can't work and maybe another kid. Currently the first can demonstrate his excellence and fly through to a job, the second can't - no less excellent, just unable to raise the funds and /or put his life on hold for a year or more. We want to be able to offer the chance to both these excellent candidates regardless of whether its taken them 14 months or 14 years to get their ticket.

And before I get shouted at, for he / his above, read equally she / her!

[rbaiapinto]

yeoman

Excellent!!:ok::ok::ok:

Consider this; two identical candidates, both excellent. One is 20 and has the ability to raise the funds and has no responsibilities. The is other is 25 and trying to change career and cannot raise the funds because he has a mortgage, a wife looking after a baby who can't work and maybe another kid. Currently the first can demonstrate his excellence and fly through to a job, the second can't - no less excellent, just unable to raise the funds and /or put his life on hold for a year or more. We want to be able to offer the chance to both these excellent candidates regardless of whether its taken them 14 months or 14 years to get their ticket.

One of the best approaches to this issue I've seen so far!

[yeoman]

Oh and Vik, there's no P in Thmoson:p

Rab, thanks

[vikdream]

Excellent yeoman, thank you very much. However I still find it difficult to understand the reason why Thomson (without the "p" :ok:) are going to hire type-rated pilots when they have 10 cadets with their contracts ending in October (trained by them, type-rated by them and with experience in the airline). Wouldn't it make more sense to keep those 10 cadets for the winter season while they hire new pilots for the summer season as they have done this year? (I am assuming the new pilots will have permanent contracts. If they don't, then forget my reasoning!)

Regards

[Matey]

The current CTC Cadets will be able to go for these jobs as they now have the required type rating and hours. Yeoman will be in a better position than me to answer, but my understanding is that for some legal reason they have to "leave" the Company for a period of time before joining on a new contract. True, they are a known quantity to the Company, but that could work two ways. To be blunt some may have demonstrated some traits in their time here which could count against them in any selection procedure and this presents the opportunity for the Company to have a "second look." As for the costs, well they have essentially funded their own type rating through salary sacrifice, and been occupying an operating seat on revenue sectors during their line training. The only additional cost there is the requirement to fly with a Training Captain. As our in-house type changes were essentially complete when the cadets started their line training and the Training Captains would be flying a normal roster anyway, the additional costs of their line training once additional safety pilots are dispensed with during early sectors are not great. Having flown with many of these cadets both during line training and in the simulator my hope is that the majority would successfully progress to this PPY contract. If so they and future cadet entrants will have much to be grateful for to Yeoman and his colleagues on the Thomson BALPA Company Council who have done a good job against the odds to provide the best possible start for a cadet within Thomson compared to the alternatives. These guys work really hard on our behalf and it's good to see them looking to our future colleagues as well as current pilots within Thomson. Once you have achieved your first stepping stone in our career one of the first considerations should be BALPA membership. End of recruitment drive!

[Guy of Gisborne]

Time for a moan!
I'm a contracting captain on a middle to heavy jet and have over 2000hrs. My work fluctuates and nothing is guaranteed. I'd love to join a UK airline even as a part timer, it would be more predictable than what I do now. However, my type is no longer used in the UK and I would need a TR. I'm happy to be bonded for this. However, everywhere I look it's CTC guys who are the only ones considered. I have vast experience, my 2000 hours are 2000 different hours not the same hour 2000 times, I've flown into over 260 airfields, some of the most challenging in over 70 countries, yet all of this counts for nothing against a 200 hour CTC guy willing to pay for his own type rating.
I'm not trying to sell myself here just reiterating what all DE pilots are sulking about. We are stuck in an industry where safety has taken a backseat to costs due to lack of experience of the operating aircrew (Air France 447, an error that would have been picked up by any UK military trained pilot).
When will the DE military pilot be looked at as a commodity again?

[Whitti]

Yeoman

Thanks for the reply, I understand, of course nothing is certain these days.

This is the only thing I've heard of that would give you a TR, line training and a salary, albeit small, without having to contribute large sums of money towards. As someone that exhausted all financial resources just to get the license, this would seem like Xmas to me! Even if nothing came after the 8 months at TOM.

I just hope the opportunity comes up in the not too distant future.

It's great work from you yeoman and the other guys/girls involved. Finally steps are being taken that could break the apparent dead-end that many of us modular pilots are facing.

I hope this idea spreads!

[Guy of Gisborne]

As far as I can see Yeoman, they're only accepting apps from 737 TR guys? Perhaps I missed something, let's hope so

[magicmick]

If (and it’s a very big if) Thomson do decide to recruit non rated cadets in the near future then it’s fantastic that modular ladies and gents will be able to apply and I heartily commend the hard work and dedication of Yeoman and their colleagues on the CC for achieving this.

While my heart rejoices at this news I’m afraid that my head is somewhat more sceptical. In the past Thomson has had a policy of recruiting only integrated cadets from CTC etc and just by opening the application process up to modular applicants it doesn’t mean that the tried and tested integrated only recruitment policy will change, it just means that HR will have to wade through many more applications.

The integrated schools that have supplied Thomson in the past will maintain their links with the airline into the future and will try to persuade Thomson to take their graduates in preference to modular applicants. If it all goes ahead it will be extremely interesting to see a break down of the profiles of the cadets selected (age, training school etc etc).

So while the Thomson CC have done (and no doubt are still doing) fantastic work for which they are to be applauded I remain sceptical as to whether or not they can genuinely influence ages old entrenched recruitment policies.

Despite my misgivings will I still apply if and when the cadet recruitment process starts? You better believe it…… Bring it on!!!!!

[JSLAY]

Can anyone confirm that this recruitment is definitely NOT for spaces in LGW?

[DooblerChina]

Magicmick, your comments are not quite accurate, TOM has a complete mix of integrated/modular/ex-military. Only very recently have they taken CTC only cadets mainly due to tight timescales.

The recruitment process is now open to anyone independent of background however for obvious reasons they are looking for 73 drivers first.

Couple this with the recently announced cadet scheme that the company wishes to set up and I think our CC has done a sterling job which other airlines should look towards and copy.

Good luck to those that apply, it's generally a happy place. The management are stuck in cost cut central at the minute but at least they can still see value when presented to them properly and the cadet scheme should be applauded.

[magicmick]

Apologies for the inaccuracies in my earlier post, just to clarify I absolutely agree that the Thomsom CC have done some fantastic work and serious kudos to them for their efforts and I would love to see other airlines following suit as this would be a very dangerous precedent for the integrated schools. My only misgiving was in how much influence the CC will have on which cadet applicants are actually accepted.

On a different tack, is this the result of ex modular trained Captains now reaching senior positions where they might be able to influence recruitment strategy and tear off the integrated blinkers? I for one certainly hope so, not that I expect special treatment for modular trainees but just getting the same treatment would be a positive move.

Well done Thomson CC, hopefully others are watching closely.

[Matey]

JSLAY
The recruitment is for regional bases. From memory Doncaster Newcastle and Exeter featured, can't remember where else, but LGW is over crewed and isn't on offer.

[yeoman]

Matey

Yes, you are right, there is an emplyment law thing that requires a break in employment, 7 days if memory serves so no biggie. Also correct in the concept of a cadet's performance could cut both ways! THanks also for the sales pitch!! (Is that you RS, MAN, Matey!!)

Guy

That's precisely the point. I am reasonably certain the plan is to recruit from a wide spectrum of experience so although the current run is for NG as preference although accepting applications 737 in general, that is not a bottomless pool so at some stage it will have to open up. As stated, this time it is limited due training load elsewhere - somehow methinks Matey and I and our colleagues on the 737 training dept are going to be busy!!

Doobler

Yes, you're right, see above

All, thanks for the kind words on what the CC and company have put together.

Also, I've had some PMs from guys and rather than answer each personally (time!!) here are the answwrs to your FAQs:

Sorry, I don't know who to send CVs to. Think about it - the current selection is via a web page, I strongly suspect future will be the same.

When? I've no idea. I understand there has been a huge response of qualified talent so honestly? unlikely that the 25-30 places won't be filled. Watch the adverts in Flight and on the basis it was about 4 nanoseconds between company email and launch here, here might be good too!

Who? See last 3 pages of posts.

Recruitment process? Don't know but does involve line pilots. I personally think that publishing the process createsan uneven playing field but also shows the diligence in researching as much as possible. Happily I don't know so don't have to sweat it on the ethics! If you are the right guy, you'll get through. For those new to the game, I would suggest being yourself because if HR are involved, and they will be, they can spot a bluffer at 3000 yards! If it was me, I'd look for the chap I could happily sit next to for hours confident that if it went bang, I wouldn't be down to single crew ops. I'd also want to be comfy sat down the back with Mrs Yeoman + brats if s/he were driving.

[Guy of Gisborne]

Great response Yeoman. However, if the company have been inundated with applications, it's very unlikely to open up to DE candidates. The bottomless pool may not exist but it's a lot deeper than you expected.:(

[fade to grey]

Guy,
You are either trolling or you have missed off some 0s. A medium/heavy jet captain with 2000 hrs ?

[Guy of Gisborne]

Trolling???
Yep, I actually gained captaincy on the jet with less than 1500 hours!!

[N747EX]

Is that on FS2002 or FS2004?

[Guy of Gisborne]

Haha, 2004

[Matey]

Yeoman...you got me bang to rights! (RS Man Matey?) correct.
Just been speaking to one of our management team who is "filtering" the applications. Just under 800 received for probably around 20-30 jobs. As you can imagine the filtering was fairly ruthless. First to go people without a type rating as required by the original job ad, then people with only a Classic rating and so on. Final filter was the response to the Customer Service question on the application. Possible candidates were then sent contract details and some pulled out at that stage. I would guess that if you haven't received this email with the terms and conditions that is a good indicator of an unsuccessful application.

As far as recently redundant pilots and current CTC Cadets are concerned ( who have already undergone a Thomson conversion course and are flying for us now) they also are on the list of who will be considered for interview (files being reviewed by 737 Training Management as I write). The Company have the advantage of in house training records for these prospective employees which could, of course, be a double edged sword!

Good luck to those who are invited for interview which begin I think early November.

[JackN]

Hi chaps,

Lots of good information here, thanks. I'm driving for RYR at the moment and lucky enough to have an assessment in November. Any further info on the T's and C's of the contract (I haven't heard anything about it yet) and also on what the assessment day consists of? (Likewise, no information provided yet). Anything anybody knows would be much appreciated.