Logbook conundrum

[xxRED BARONxx]

Hey guys,

So now that I have my CPL and around 200 hours ive realized ive made a sub optimal logbook size choice and have the smallest logbook there is. I was supplied with this logbook by my flying school. Has anyone been in my position and bought a bigger logbook and transferred entries over?? Im guessing it would be a real pain for the flying school to give you those endorsement stickers all over again. Also is there any point in doing this? Im guessing throughout a pilots career no matter how bigger log book you start off with you will eventually use up all the pages and have to get a second/third one? Any insight or personal experiences would be appreciated!!

thanks

[Capt Fathom]

Why transfer your entries over to the new logbook? Just fill up the first one then move on to the next, then the next, then the next.....!

I have numerous old logbooks. All but the current one stored in the garage. It's quite interesting to go back through them occasionally and look at the old entries, instructors, aircraft etc.

While you may not consider it now, in many years to come, those old logbooks become a historical record.

I've never used computers to record my flying. Just old fashioned paper and ink!

[Tankengine]

Hi Red Baron,
As Capt Fathom says, just fill it up and move on to a bigger one next time.:ok:
If you have a long career you will fill up a few, I am on number 6 now [not counting being on second gliding logbook] so don't worry about it.;)
Just enjoy your flying!:ok:

[BlatantLiar]

Are you not suppose to log gliding in the same log book or something?

[Lasiorhinus]

What's the average time taken to fill a logbook? Sure, it varies depending on the sort of flights you do, but I filled my first one in about 1200 hours.

[Capt Claret]

In 29 years since commencing ab-initio training I've filled 4.5 log books and haven't made a handwritten entry in 7 years thanks to LogTen Pro. :ok:

[Creampuff]

1. Get a ruler, and a pen that is the same colour and point size as the current row boundary lines in the logbook.

2. Carefully mark 2 parallel lines inside each pair of the existing row boundary lines on each page that you haven’t used yet.

3. Voila! 4 times the entry capacity of the remaining pages.

4. If you start getting worried that, having carried out 2, you may still run out of space, repeat 2 for the remaining pages. Now you’ll have 16 times the entry capacity for the remaining pages.

5. If you start getting worried again, do 2 again.

No need to thank me – just enjoy your flying. :ok:

[training wheels]

What's the average time taken to fill a logbook? Sure, it varies depending on the sort of flights you do, but I filled my first one in about 1200 hours.

I was thinking about this as well. My first had 1600 hours .. now on my second and averaging 30 hours a page. With 52 pages, it will be around 1500 hours to have it filled. I also use LogTen Pro which I update after every flight .. it's really handy for working out your flight time and duty limitations on the go.

[AerocatS2A]

Capt Claret, where do the checkers put the sticky labels? I'm using LogTen Pro as well and the sticky labels are going into the sticky label page of my most recent paper logbook, but it will get filled up eventually.

[Lasiorhinus]

It seems thats pretty standard from most people Ive spoken to - somewhere from 1000 to 1500 hours per logbook. And yeah, thats the "normal" logbook, not the big thick ATC "Professional" version.

Personally I dont like the big one, because it's actually quite satisfying to finish a logbook, and you'd be robbing yourself of that.

I also keep an electronic logbook as well, on the excel spreadsheet I've made available on here in the past. I love the huge amount of number crunching the spreadsheet does for me, but I have no intention of ever stopping writing in my paper logbook as well.

[NZFlyingKiwi]

What's the average time taken to fill a logbook? Sure, it varies depending on the sort of flights you do, but I filled my first one in about 1200 hours.I filled the first one in 700 hours, but I make very detailed entries so I can keep track of what I've done with each student and also leave a line between each entry - definitely not optimal use of space but my handwriting isn't fantastic so if I don't leave a line it looks very untidy.

[Capt Claret]

G'day AerocatS2A,

I just use the last paper log book & tape the new sticky strip page atop the previous one, so that they ll lift up from the bottom.

[hiwaytohell]

I know a few guys that have pasted in some photos into their log books to record special times/aircraft/places.... makes a great record. It may not be for everyone, but 36 years & 4 log books on I wished I had done the same.

[Aye Ess]

Yes,hiwaytohell...good idea. I put a few photos into mine as well,also maybe just a word or two on unusual flights,just to jog the memory in years to come...."lightning strike" "shut down one engine" "pax died" "gear not retract" "QNH 983mb". (please note these did NOT all happen on the same flight)

When presenting myself for job interviews,I notice interviewing panel members read each page and question me on notated flights. Adds to the communication.

[clear to land]

Gees I must be writing too small!!!! On Book 5 now and each has between 2-3000 hrs in them. I leave 3 lines between each month (except for my military one where it was a month a page).

[jas24zzk]

Interesting convo, esp from the veiwpoint of someone that is doing a logbook recreation due water damage.

Lets see if i can provide something positive....

Gliding logbooks.
Whilst it is VH registered, as rmcdonal points out, there is different information being recorded, all of it qualifies as time to certain power tickets.

Power books.

The average seems to be about 1500 hours per book.

Of interest,....

Another one from mcdonal.....
Instructing chews up more lines as you fly with different people each day with a line each, however generally the flying total for the day is low, charter on the other hand could give you big hours for the day in the one aircraft resulting in only 1 line being used.


The first sentence in his statement rings very true., but the second part is actually against the regs.

To explain.
As an instructor....you flew with student A,B, and C, so you need a seperate entry to match the students logbook.
As a charter pilot, you can fly all day and make one entry. WRONG
I am not going to search out the reg for you, because this should have been part of your training.

A flight is defined clearly in the regs (simplifying a lil here) as a take off and landing (a touch and go is not defined as a landing, as you never really stopped flying)
So if you take off in Ballina, land in broken hill,unload/reload, depart for newcastle, unload/reload, depart for tamworth, unload/reload then depart for ballina....you cannot put that as one line.
Each leg is a seperate flight and your logbook must reflect it.

I.e.
Ballina to Broken hill. 1 line
Broken hill to newscastle. 1 line
etc

Its a fast way to eat up a log book, but it is what the regs say must be done.

The authority tolerates single entries in the training situation, where you might do YLIL -YMEN (landing) -YMMB (landing)-YLIL (shutdown), on the premise that it was not a full shut down until you returned to your departure point. My understanding of the regs, is that if you shut down at any of the intermediates for a discussion, it becomes end flight and a new entry made.


Those funny sticker things
I have seen guys getting them stuck in their 3rd and 4th logbooks.
Personally, I want to see them stuck in my first book, with all the others.
If you run out of space you can add pages for more of them. My own original logbook had no space for the stickers, and CASA sold me the pages to paste in. On that premise I see no reason you cannot add pages if required. Keep them stickies together.....
and i hate the stickies! coz they never match your printed licence!


Electronic log books.

Handier than a sharp axe.

Catastophic log book loss.................you have a record...esp if you know about backing stuff up off site..

Log book totaling. the numbers are there for you...noi adding it up 5 times.

Personally i use logbook pro.

Enjoy
Jas

[Lasiorhinus]

Jas24zzk,

Can you please provide a reference that backs up your claim that any of that is what the regs say must be done...

CAR 5.52
What must be recorded in a personal log book?
(1) The holder of a flight crew licence, a special pilot licence or a certificate of validation must record in his or her personal log book:
(b) any information about each flight undertaken by the holder that CASA directs be recorded in the log book; and

OK, so the only thing the regs actually require is that we record information about each flight...

CAO 40.1.0
9.5 For the purposes of subregulation 5.52 (2), the information about each flight must include:
(a) the date of each flight; and
(b) the type of aeroplane flown; and
(c) the registration marks of the aeroplane flown; and
(d) the point of departure and the destination of each flight; and
(e) the nature of each flight; and
(f) the time flown on instruments; and
(g) time flown in single and multi-engined aeroplanes by day and by night; and
(h) in accordance with subsection 10, the capacity in which the person flew the aeroplane.

Right, so now we are required to record the point of departure and destination of every flight....

Where does it say this must be on a seperate line in the logbook for each sector??

[training wheels]

How do those operating multi-crew indicate whether you're PF or PNF when logging time? LogTen Pro has this feature, but unfortunately there isn't a dedicated column for this in the Air Services logbook.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

That's gonna suck for circuits.:E

1st Sep 2012. C123. ABC. IM Biggles. UR Bloggs. CCTs. (instuctor Demoed). 0.1
1st Sep 2012. C123. ABC. IM Biggles. UR Bloggs. CCTs. (instuctor Directed). 0.1
1st Sep 2012. C123. ABC. IM Biggles. UR Bloggs. CCTs. (instuctor Took Over). 0.1
1st Sep 2012. C123. ABC. IM Biggles. UR Bloggs. CCTs. (instuctor Yelled). 0.1
1st Sep 2012. C123. ABC. IM Biggles. UR Bloggs. CCTs. (instuctor Stopped). 0.1

[Lasiorhinus]

training wheels, you don't. Nor is there any requirement to. But if you're interested in keeping track for your own sake, you can use one of the Specialist/Instructor columns, or even just make a note in the Remarks field.

[aileron_69]

1500 a logbook, you guys must use double lines and leave a blank page every month or something. I think I have around 4000 hours in my logbook and I am around 2/3 of the way through. Its just a standard one too.
I think the 1 line per flight that has a fullstop landing could be a little erroneous. What about an Ag pilot? Flying lime we would do 5-6 minute turnarounds. Thats up to 10 fullstop landings where you load up every hour. On a good day we could do up to 10 flying hours for the day. With 28 lines on a logbook page, that would be 3-4 logbook pages just for 1 day!!!