Sharkey Ward has got a blog

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

He doesn't seem very enthusiastic about the RAF..

Sharkey's World (http://www.sharkeysworld.com/)


WWW

[seadrills]

True though

[green granite]

http://i.imgur.com/Hkq3c.gif :E

[gijoe]

I am not his biggest fan but a lot of what he says is true...

WWW, I am sure light blue will reply to your original post in the normal frothing-at-the-mouth way spouting 'Flexibility' et al :zzz:

G:ok:

[Speedywheels]

RAF Transport Command - who are they?

He really is a sad individual, does anybody take any notice of his rants any more?

<yawn>

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It was news to me that he had a blog and on a wet bank holiday Monday it was a 'diverting' read. Someone should tell him though that RAF Transport Command went in about 1967..

WWW

[CrabInCab]

By all tradition and service etiquette, I, as the senior officer on board the aircraft, should have been the first to be invited to disembark. But because I was Navy I was totally ignored. Without any reference to me the cabin staff announced the order for disembarkation: two stretcher‑cases; followed by non‑commissioned Welsh Guards personnel; followed by Falkland Islanders; followed by `any other party'. It was another calculated insult but I didn't have the will to cause a fuss. I was too excited at the thought of seeing my wife and children again.

What an utter bell-end!

:}

[Milo Minderbinder]

Its not exactly news, but just for the record he actually has TWO websites

Sharkey's World: 1. Welcome (http://www.sharkeysworld.com/search/label/1.%20Welcome)

- The Phoenix ThinkTank – Naval Think Tank (http://www.phoenixthinktank.org/sharkey-ward/)

[hello1]

7.***** I trust that you will take note of the above and discuss the same ... with your Cabinet colleagues.* Our future global maritime capability and political influence rests in the balance.


D Cameron: Good morning everyone and welcome back from your summer hols. Now I know that the economy's still tanking and the Euro is heading south but I really do think that we ought to discuss Sharkey Ward's letter to William Hague.

P Hammond: Absolutely PM, I really agree. The most important thing is to wallow in the past but look on the bright side we'll be back in power by the time the carrier eventually comes into service

D Cameron: Thought we were buying two.

G Osborne: Not a chance.

D Cameron: Good, now what did Sharkey want.

Underling: Nothing worth five seconds of your time Prime Minister.

[Wander00]

E-i, e-i, Oh. Sorry, thought you said "got a dog"!

I'll get my coat

[The Helpful Stacker]

I would attempt to post a half decent rebuttal with regards to one of his hair-brained conspiracy theories but you know what, it really isn't worth it.

All I can really say is what a lot of hoop. I feel embarrassed for the many fine and upstanding serving and ex-serving Royal Navy personnel he claims to represent and associate with. If he were an ex-member of either of the services I've served in I'd be mortified that he claimed to speak on behalf of me.

[BEagle]

`From the Group Captain, Sir. You may have a seat in whichever aircraft you wish.'

= "For God's sake, get this nasty little bearded bull****ter out of here as soon as you can manage to arrange it!".

At last I was able to step ashore on to home soil and, carrying my own bags, walked the 200 yards in my full‑dress uniform to where I could see my family waiting. There had been four generals to meet the Welsh Guardsmen. There was no sign of the Navy.



They obviously knew him well...........:rolleyes:

It's a great pity that such a brave wartime jet fighter pilot should be quite so bitter about things which really aren't of much importance.

[Easy Street]

Some of his back-of-a-fag-packet costings of naval vs land-based air are quite hilarious. Particularly the ones where he includes every last cost of an airfield (almost down to the bog paper in the guardroom toilets) and then says that naval aircraft operate for free from a carrier (no mention of fuel, supplies, logistics or even ship maintenance). His postings during ELLAMY petered out as everyone realised that the lack of carrier-borne fast air wasn't a show-stopper; perhaps his masters at the Phoenix told him to stop embarrassing them. Shame, because they were quite a study in developing an argument from a one-eyed viewpoint.

The sad thing is that the tone of his blog is not too far detached from the view of the RAF held by a significant proportion of the FAA. Sharkey gets a lot of leaks from them and it is all done with quite a deal of spite. Really, it is time that the differences were sorted out.

[Courtney Mil]

I just love single-issue fanatics.

[Milo Minderbinder]

its worth remembering the last two (?) threads on this subject got deleted after the attacks became too personal on him.
The topic seems to come back every six months when someone else finds that site......
is it worth going over it all yet again?

[m0nkfish]

If he's so desperate to go and really can't stand the RAF that much, why doesn't he just catch the LAN Chile flight??

I notice in his list of aircraft he has included all the Navy Hawks at Culdrose in the RAF section.....

[P6 Driver]

I'm torn between being impressed and feeling sad that after so many years, a person could still have a bee in the bonnet about alleged treatment over flights back from the Falklands in 1982!

(And how many service personnel took their "Full Dress uniform" to the Falklands War so they could wear it home? - come on, hands up!)

[muttywhitedog]

Retired sailor in a "Once upon a time I was mildly important in my own mirror" moment.

Nothing to see here - move along.

[rockiesqiud]

Why didn't the 2 Group Captains or several Wing Commanders just tell him to foxtrot Oscar or does the senior service outrank all of them?

[Finningley Boy]

I can't help myself, I've been reading Sharkey Ward's website comments. Among the least offensive comments he has posted is one in particular which I would question. He maintains that in 1967, the British withdrawal from Aden required cover from a Navy Carrier. They were there apparently to cover the evacuation of all including the R.A.F. Now I don't doubt that a situation such as this could arise, however, I have seen film of the last days of the British presence in Aden.

Unless I'm mistaken and what I was watching was some other ceremony, the Navy were indeed present, but not to provide any kind of air cover for the fleeing R.A.F. I recall seeing the aircraft from HMS Victorious mounting a large Balbo flypast while a Senior British Officer, on land, took the salute.

FB:)

[Courtney Mil]

Everything that bitter, deranged person writes in his blog is absolutely true. THe RN are fantastic, the RAF are cowardly and useless. Oh, and they plotted against the Navy to cause the downfall of FAA fixed wing - which we may never see again. And the Harrier won the Falklands War all on their own.

[Wrathmonk]

Not quite Courtney - it was the SEA Harrier that won the war (and only those flown by the FAA, not the RAF exchange pilots). The GR3s were just there to fill in the gaps on the ATO. :E

[just another jocky]

Everything that bitter, deranged person writes in his blog is absolutely true. THe RN are fantastic, the RAF are cowardly and useless. Oh, and they plotted against the Navy to cause the downfall of FAA fixed wing - which we may never see again. And the Harrier won the Falklands War all on their own.

So, you're Sharkey Ward! :}

[Courtney Mil]

I think his biggest problem is that he completely discredits himself by being so increadibly poisonous and single-issue. Scrapping the Harrier must really be eating him up. As you say, Wrathmonk, especially the Sea Harrier.

As for your mistaken identity, JAJ, an easy mistake to make, I know.

[CoffmanStarter]

So there can be no mistaken identity ... :}

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xDXqKvlfNsE/TXmzxBXIXJI/AAAAAAAABk0/zQxDsBcGxy4/s1600/Sharkey+Ward.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

(and only those flown by the FAA, not the RAF exchange pilots)

Well, one of them was.

A friend and colleague of mine (ex Lightning) who flew the Sea Harrier during the conflict.

[Courtney Mil]

True, LM, but Wrathmonk's idea was that "that git Sharkey" only attributed the winning of the war to FAA Sea Harrier pilots.

[Bob Viking]

From what I can remember of reading his book it was an even more select group than that. It was just the Sea Harriers from his own Squadron. I recall him frequently lambasting the guys on Hermes who were clearly not as good as his own unit.
I remember finding it slightly strange that, considering Sharkey won the war single handedly, he merited no mention whatsoever in Max Hastings' (a reasonably well respected journalist) book about the Falklands.
Clearly very misunderstood.
BV:=

[Pontius Navigator]

FB,

Without checking, I believe there were 5 flat tops off Aden. They included the Commando carriers and of course fixed-wing top cover. It was in anticipation of a debacle such as Saigon 6 years later but it all went pretty smoothly.

The troops were able to pour quick setting cement down the toilets and fill those globe lamp shades with water, having smashed the bulbs first. allegedly

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

BV,

That's because Max Hastings was simply a puppet of the Army (and possibly the RAF). What could he ever know about the winning of the Ward Conflict?

Duncs:ok:

[Herod]

As one who was there, I can confirm that it was a combined operation of all services. The Wessex of 78 Sqn (of which I was a member) were embarked aboard HMS Intrepid for the final few days and operated from there. Eagle and Bulwark were there up until the end and the RN Wessex were also operating in support. As always in these things, the "poor bloody infantry" had the worst of it, but we did what we could to help. Not our finest hour by a long way, but the political story is someone else's.

[BEagle]

I respect Sharkey for having flown some highly demanding war missions in carrierborne single seat fighters whilst coping with filthy weather during the South Atlantic conflict. BZ..:ok:

Regrettably, such respect can only be eroded by the rants he insists on posting. Mate, you had your war and we respect that, but the bolleaux you continue to post earns you your 'Bearded Bull$hitter' nickname.

Nevertheless, enjoy your twilight years in your Caribbean rum-sozzled retirement, but please, please..........stop?

[Finningley Boy]

FB,

Without checking, I believe there were 5 flat tops off Aden. They included the Commando carriers and of course fixed-wing top cover. It was in anticipation of a debacle such as Saigon 6 years later but it all went pretty smoothly.

The troops were able to pour quick setting cement down the toilets and fill those globe lamp shades with water, having smashed the bulbs first. allegedly

Many Thanks Sir,

I knew there had to be a logical explanation, I know the Hunters from Khormaksar carried out regular offensive air support over the Radfan Mountains against insurgents, but I didn't know the Navy flew in anger against anyone after the R.A.F, inevitably, had to up sticks and leave.

FB

[unclenelli]

Surely Martin Withers (and the other 84-86 flying members of each Black Buck sortie - 7 in total) had a part to play in the Mirage III, IAI Dagger & Etendards being withdrawn to Comodoro Rivadavia.

[Cows getting bigger]

Sharkey, like many officers of previous generations, is irrelevant and the sooner he realizes this the better.

I was brought-up in a tri-service environment and not long before I left the military we really started to think Joint. If Defence is to remain relevant, we don't need idiots spouting-off about what colour a particular capability should be painted.

IMHO, the really good senior officers I worked for were purple through-and-through. They understood and respected the individual attributes and skills that we all brought to the party.

[Wensleydale]

not long before I left the military we really started to think Joint


and judging by his current judgement, Sharky appears to have been smoking one (allegedly).

[Courtney Mil]

CGB, thank you for saying that. I was beginning to feel the divisions again, but you reminded me of just how well the Services really do work together.

Good one.

Coff, can't you get rid of that picture?

[Fareastdriver]

One of the AEOs on my squadron had left te RAF shortly before Aden was evacuated. He joined the Aden Levees or whatever the local regiment was called. When the last British elements were leaving landrovers were driving up to him and the occupants were giving him the keys. It must have been all right subsequently because he came back on leave and told us all about it.

[Pontius Navigator]

CGB, having retired only recently from a joint enterprise, joint meant green.

Basically green had the mass and green therefore led the way even if they seemed to defer to light blue from time to time and referred to us a purple veneer, ie blue on the outside and green on the inside.

[Wholigan]

Some of you may find this of interest. It's apparently a copy of the Op Order for the withdrawal. It itemises who and what was involved.

Khormaksar rundown and withdrawal plans (http://www.radfanhunters.co.uk/Khormaksar%20Rundown%20-%201967.htm)

And this is fun:

BRITISH TROOPS WITHDRAW aka SIR HUMPHREY TREVELYAN LEAVES ADEN - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/british-troops-withdraw-aka-sir-humphrey-trevelyan/query/ADEN)

[just another jocky]

Sharkey, like many officers of previous generations, is irrelevant and the sooner he realizes this the better.

I was brought-up in a tri-service environment and not long before I left the military we really started to think Joint. If Defence is to remain relevant, we don't need idiots spouting-off about what colour a particular capability should be painted.

IMHO, the really good senior officers I worked for were purple through-and-through. They understood and respected the individual attributes and skills that we all brought to the party.

Well said that man! :ok:

I joined in the bad old days but am pleased to see that approaching retirement, things are slowly changing for the better. If all memebers of all 3 services don't realise that our future lies together (when did it not? :ugh:) then we will surely succumb.

[Pontius Navigator]

Wholigan, thank you for that. I thought the RN/RM presence was more than that by 2 RM Commandos is quite significant.

[ex-fast-jets]

I spent 3 years on exchange with the USN 78-81. I am a huge fan of naval aviation - done properly.

I was on HERMES in 82. Apart from the skipper - who must have been Sharkey's Dad, and hated the RAF even more than Sharkey - the light and dark blue folk onboard got on extremely well - at every rank level.

When Atlantic Conveyor was sunk, BN which was on an airtest, landed onboard HERMES. We were told that if it was not off the deck in the morning, the Captain had declared that he would have it pushed overboard. There was little doubt in anyone's mind that he would order such, and that his orders would be carried out without question - as were all his orders. As a result, that Chinook went ashore unsupported, and its subsequent contribution - thanks to some amazing efforts by its groundcrew and aircrew - is well documented.

I think that on HERMES, we were mostly unaware of the hatred being developed onboard INVINCIBLE. Some of them did a great job - including Sharkey. But so too did many onboard HERMES. Light and dark blue. Perhaps, even, some of the GR3s. I think Moggie did quite well on the kills ladder, even though he was, at that stage, light blue, flying the SHAR. I seem to recall that some 25% of SHAR pilots during that conflict were light blue.

It is a great shame that we cannot accept that each Service brings different attributes to the fight, so that we can join together to fight the real enemy - the politicians and bean-counters - rather than fight each other.

If we could, then perhaps we could avoid some of the detrimental inter-Service fighting that serves only to satisfy the Treasury in its quest for the Holy Grail.

One of the reasons I pvr'd.

Sorry - thread drift. But, Sharkey - if you read these - broaden your thought process and think of what is best for us all, not just your parochial single-Service crusade - which is now well past its sell-by date.

[Basil]

I respect Sharkey for having flown some highly demanding war missions in carrierborne single seat fighters whilst coping with filthy weather during the South Atlantic conflict. BZ..

Regrettably, such respect can only be eroded by the rants he insists on posting. . . .

I concur and am no longer angered, but saddened to read the comments of a bitter hero.

[The Old Fat One]

Get over yourself guys...

As some one posted...he's had his war, good job, here's yer gong and yer pension now foxtrot oscar.

So he's doing his Uncle Albert routine...if it gets to you that much just post on his blog or whatever.

(You may cut and paste)

Oi Nelson. Just coz you got hairs round yer mouth, no need to talk like a c**t.

Or just let it go.

[Not_a_boffin]

When Atlantic Conveyor was sunk, BN which was on an airtest, landed onboard HERMES. We were told that if it was not off the deck in the morning, the Captain had declared that he would have it pushed overboard. There was little doubt in anyone's mind that he would order such, and that his orders would be carried out without question - as were all his orders. As a result, that Chinook went ashore unsupported, and its subsequent contribution - thanks to some amazing efforts by its groundcrew and aircrew - is well documented.


Without wishing to start an entirely new pagga, there may have been a very good reason for that, which was very little to do with the uniform being worn and a lot to do with BN b8ggering up the deck.

You were there, clearly I wasn't, so I may be barking up the wrong tree. But a non-folding cab on an extremely busy (small) deck could quite possibly have jeopardised the SHAR CAP from 800. With far more serious consequences than a ditched airframe. I was there when Hermes came home in July 82 and watched the SHAR/SK/Wessies fly off the next morning and the deck was fairly full then. AIUI that was just over half what she was actually operating down south.

Just a thought, not a red rag.

[muttywhitedog]

Harrier Harrier, Blah Blah.
Carriers Carriers, Blah Blah.
Navy Navy Blah Blah
Beards Beards, Blah Blah.
Rum Rum Blah Blah.
Sailing Sailing Blah Blah.

Maybe Mr Ward should be a bit more original in his blogs and harp on about Pirates, Plank Walking and Cutlasses - all of which are as confined to history as his beloved aircraft and carriers.

[FODPlod]

Every time Sharkey risks fading into obscurity, some aggrieved PPRuNer (invariably light blue) flashes up the outrage bus and starts another ad hominem thread drawing attention to him. How many does this make?

I love it. ;)

[Tankertrashnav]

Re the original post, I have a friend who is a former RN photographer. He has shown me some very interesting photographs of the last days in Aden, including one of troops from an OP on high ground being picked up by a Navy Wessex for recovery to a carrier (can't remember which one - Bulwark?). He reckons this is a picture of the very last armed troops leaving Aden, - whether or not this is precisely true I dont know, but it was certainly taken on the last day.

[Shack37]

Re the original post, I have a friend who is a former RN photographer. He has
shown me some very interesting photographs of the last days in Aden, including
one of troops from an OP on high ground being picked up by a Navy Wessex for
recovery to a carrier (can't remember which one - Bulwark?). He reckons this is
a picture of the very last armed troops leaving Aden, - whether or not this is
precisely true I dont know, but it was certainly taken on the last day.


TTN, Do you have a date for that last day? I left K'sar in (I think) Nov of 67 which IIRC was getting close to the end when only our friendly Booties were left to be picked up off the "beach".

[CoffmanStarter]

A possible solution :E

Let's have a whip round and send a case of this to the guy as he clearly wasn't taught to play nicely at bath time when he was a youngster :}

http://images.mysupermarket.co.uk/Products_1000/17/034117.jpg

[Herod]

At the risk of thread drift again, the last day of Aden was 30th Nov '67. I was a guest aboard Intrepid at the time, as part of 78 Sqn. My logbook shows that we packed in at Khormaksar and flew to Intrepid on 25th, and carried out various security and airlifting tasks from there. As I recall, we sailed such that the last British warship left territorial waters at 23:59, Southern Yemen becoming independent at midnight 30 Nov/1 Dec. All ground troops would have been withdrawn prior to that deadline.

[FODPlod]

Herod - That would fit in with HMS Eagle's aircraft providing top cover until the last moment:
(http://www.seavixen.org/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.thfsknphkmwlgjcu&pageId=2366766)899 Squadron to HMS Eagle November 1966 to October 1968 - 6th Commission (http://www.seavixen.org/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.thfsknphkmwlgjcu&pageId=2366766)23rd Oct 1967; HMS Eagle departs Singapore for Aden; continuously at sea until 22nd December 1967. Cover for Aden withdrawal.
23rd Dec 1967; HMS Eagle berthed in Singapore dockyard with defective propeller; 899 Squadron disembarked at RAF Changi.

[DuncanMac]

The troops were able to pour quick setting cement down the toilets and fill those globe lamp shades with water, having smashed the bulbs first. allegedly

Explosives under the loo seat. Same fitted to the dental chair - up was fine, down cured ones toothache. That was my (late) fathers contribution to Middle East diplomacy . . . and no allegedly associated to it.

His boss had partaken in the Hippocratic Oath, so could only watch . . .

[Two's in]

Letting people write on their own blogs is just the same as letting them put bumper stickers or other such paraphenalia on their vehicles - it tells you everything you need to know about them and allows you to give them a correspondingly wide berth.

[Tinribs]

An RAF chum of mine from the 60s, Al Curtis, left the mob and ended up with the Navy via elsewher. I think he was one of the Harrier pair that departed and then dissapeared for unknown reasons

Does anyone have any knowledge of his contribution prior to the dissapearing act or the circumstances of it

From my memory of the time the thoughts were nav error leading to being unable to find the carrier, collision or even attcking each other but of course the Argies claimed them which seems improbable

[AR1]

Dim memory investigating a surface contact in bad weather but I may be mistaken.

[Samuel]

An RAF chum of mine from the 60s, Al Curtis, left the mob and ended up with the Navy via elsewhere

Al Curtis flew Skyhawks in the RNZAF prior to being lost at sea in a Harrier.

[ORAC]

801 Sqn - 6 May

Falklands Air War: .......During the morning, a brief, fast moving, low level contact was detected near Sheffield* by the Observer in a Sea King to the south of the fleet. Two 801 Sqn CAP aircraft, operating some 20 miles apart, were vectored towards the area. XZ452 being flown by John Eyton-Jones and XZ453 by Al Curtis. In order to investigate the report, both had to descend through very low cloud and fog, virtually to sea-level. Nothing more was seen or heard of them; it had to be presumed that they had either flown into the sea or (more likely) collided at, or near, position 53'00"S 57'00.7"W......

*Official History: ......It had originally been intended to sink Sheffield's hull but this was rescinded. Woodward's view the next day was that he should let Sheffield burn itself out, whilst using it as 'a tethered goat while she floats'.....

[Tankertrashnav]

TTN, Do you have a date for that last day? I left K'sar in (I think) Nov of 67 which IIRC was getting close to the end when only our friendly Booties were left to be picked up off the "beach".


Shack - Herod seems to have answered the question re the date. Interestingly I have had a PM from a member whose father was apparently in an OP which was almost overlooked (he thinks) during the excitement of the evacuation and was picked up by the Wessex at the last minute for evacuation to one of the commando carriers. I'll get a look at my mate's photo, which I can scan and send to him, to see if his father is in the pic.

[FODPlod]

The IWM has some interesting photos including: A Royal Navy Wessex Mk V helicopter from HMS ALBION carries stores ashore for men of 42 Commando on 25 November 1967. At this stage ships and aircraft of the Naval Task Force were assembled off Aden in preparation for the withdrawal which took place in the following week. (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187857)
The departure of the High Commissioner of Aden, Sir Humphrey Trevelyan, from Khormaksar on 28 November 1967. The Commander-in-Chief in the Middle East, Admiral Le Fanu, is seen in the foreground (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187907)
A Blackburn Buccaneer aircraft of 800 Naval Air Squadron from HMS EAGLE on patrol over Aden and Khormaksar airfield, during the withdrawal of British troops on 29 November 1967 (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205120031)

(So it seems that Sharkey was right. :ok: )
A British Westland Wessex helicopter of 848 Naval Air Squadron disembarks a party of Royal Marine commandos on an aircraft carrier off Aden. (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205195258)

The last British soldier to leave Aden: Lieutenant Colonel 'Dai' Morgan, Commanding Officer of 42 Royal Marine Commando, pictured as he arrived on board HMS ALBION by Wasp helicopter shortly after 3pm on 29 November 1967 (http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205187908)
Sad that the IWM categorises a Royal Marine as a 'soldier'.

[John Botwood]

The Paras "Leaving ofAden"


Throughout the day planes of the airlift shuttled through the runway as naval aircraft patrolled high above and helicopters prowled the perimeter wire. By afternoon the last planeload of Argylls was gone. Just before sunset, figures came out of the saltpans from the direction of Sheik Othman and swarmed at the far end of the runway like an apparition in the heat haze.

They had cut the perimeter wire and come through trailing rifles. More than five hundred dusted off their red berets, formed ranks of eight abreast and marched straight down the runway. A patrolling helicopter dipped in salute.A middle-aged RAF man, dressed only in tropical shorts, stood on the tarmac watching, tears of pride streaming down his face.

The First Paras, young veterans of eight hundred terrorist assaults with rockets, mortars, grenades and machine-guns in the Sheik Othman hell-hole, came out of the harsh saltpan positions they called the Pennine Chain. They were smart and proud as on passing out parade. A thin line of green-bereted men of 42 Commando had relieved them in the discomfort of their Pennine Chain line. The battalion commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Mike Walsh, marched at their head. He explained,'We wanted to show that three months of tedious duty holding a quiet line sincewe pulled back from Sheik Othman has not made us in the least slipshod.'

General Sir Philip Tower, himself a para, took the salute. He told them,' You have lived up to the standards set by your predecessors at Arnhem. You have stuck out months and months in horrible conditions.'The First Paras had captured one hundred and twenty-eight terrorists, lost three killed and twenty-five wounded. They were flow nhomeward in a continuous stream of RAF transport planes that landed and took off through all that night.

Just wanted to remind us, as to what was happening on the ground.

JohnB

[Herod]

For some real horror stories of what went on on the ground, check out the day that the local army mutinied. I don't have the exact date to hand, but a search for "Mad Mitch" and "Entry into Crater" will put you in the right direction. We RAF aircrew had it easy; the Army and the Marines were in a pretty nasty hole.

[MAINJAFAD]

An RAF chum of mine from the 60s, Al Curtis, left the mob and ended up with the Navy via elsewher. I think he was one of the Harrier pair that departed and then dissapeared for unknown reasons

Does anyone have any knowledge of his contribution prior to the dissapearing act or the circumstances of it

He got a kill on 1st May as well (2nd Bomber Group Canberra with a 9 Lima) if memory serves.

[Mogwi]

Just found your thread!

I was in that area a few hours previously and the weather was pants. Sc from 2000 down to sea fog. I bottomed out at 50 ft looking for a surface contact without seeing the sea. Al was flying with John Eyton-Jones and went to investigate a "surface contact" and they were not seen again.

Possibilities:

Shot down by "surface contact". V unlikely and never claimed.
Mid-air collision in ****e cloud. Possible.
Both flew into sea in ****e vis. Also possible.

Take your pick. Most unfortunate loss of two top blokes.

[Tengah Type]

Prior to jumping ship to join the RNZ Navy Al Curtis was a co-pilot on 55 Sqn, flying Victor K1A Tankers, in 1967-69. An absolute gentleman.

[SASless]

Does the RAF really just see the Army as something to be transported about the place? Surely the Army does serve some other purpose however slight.;)

[The Helpful Stacker]

Does the RAF really just see the Army as something to be transported about the place? Surely the Army does serve some other purpose however slight.

It works both ways, with some in the Army regarding the RAF as only being there to transport them about the place. I say some though because in both organisations (and to an extent in the the RN too), at the level of those who do the work, such dated views of each other's roles are disappearing fast.

But if you want to carry on trying to stir feel free.

[SASless]

A true statement that exposes the truth is stirring? That it goes both ways....makes it all the worse.

Now that the Harrier is gone....where does the Army get its Tactical Air Support from? The Dutch and Canadians?

[Samuel]

Prior to jumping ship to join the RNZ Navy Al Curtis was a co-pilot on 55 Sqn, flying Victor K1A Tankers, in 1967-69. An absolute gentleman.

All very true except he was Flt Lt Al Curtis RNZAF.

[just another jocky]

A true statement that exposes the truth is stirring? That it goes both ways....makes it all the worse.

Now that the Harrier is gone....where does the Army get its Tactical Air Support from? The Dutch and Canadians?

The RAF have been providing CAS in Afg since we arrived in theatre, and continue to do so today.

Though I suspect you already knew that. ;)

[Haraka]

I always remember a lecture from the "Towers" in the late 60's regarding Army requests for airlift ( in the M.E.). Communication had reached a nadir, with the RAF itself judging what it considered the Army needed. So the Army requested twice what it wanted, with the R.A.F supplying half of what was demanded . Fortunately common-sense eventually prevailed with the incoming local air commander getting off his butt and visiting his ground bound contemporaries.
Working "Purple" for most of my (abbreviated) time , it was a lesson I never forgot.

[Bob Viking]

Let's all grow up a little shall we peeps? It seems to me that it is only on the hallowed pages of PPrune that people still think the services are incapable of working together. There are good and bad people in each branch of the UK forces (and I'm sure in all nations) but I think we do a pretty good job of all playing nicely nowadays. Let me go on record as saying (as an RAF type) that our Navy and Army are both extremely capable and effective forces. What the guys are doing in the 'Stan should make us proud, not argue about who is doing the better job.
Each of the services has a distinct role in modern warfare and carries it out bloody well. It's only the crusty old dinosaurs who hark back to the old days who think that problems still exist. Guys like Sharkey do himself no favours by commenting on modern issues based on opinions formed over 30 years ago. Some folks on here need to be careful they don't start to sound like him.
Lastly SASless I have to add that, despite your obvious experience and usually sound judgment the following:

"Does the RAF really just see the Army as something to be transported about the place? Surely the Army does serve some other purpose however slight."

I'm afraid that two open ended questions does not constitute a statement. It really does just come across as sh1t stirring I'm afraid. Though that can be fun too.
BV:ok:

[Herod]

Re the Army's attitude to helicopter airlift, one of the problems we faced back in the sixties was their likening the Wessex to a three-ton lorry. If there was space, fill it up; no real understanding of the effect of weight on performance. I have to admit though that it did get better with time, especially when the crewman simply off-loaded the excess: with a large boot if it was troops! ;)

[CoffmanStarter]

If it's good enough for our Rocks ... It's good enough for the Pongos :E

http://guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/barrow_monkeys.jpg

[Courtney Mil]

My favourite is the BB's rant about getting down to the Falklands for the 30th. He even wrote to the Minister about how awful it was he and others couldn't guarantee to get there via "Transport Command". Obviously the RAF should kick operational personnel off the flights to make way for the star of the show. I suspect his real reason was that all his bitter venom over the years might have made him doubt the reception he might of received onboard. Assuming they let him onboard.

Oh, and a very convincing peice that mentions the Tornado "F1/F3". Credible stuff, Sharky.

[Rossian]

....I remember being lectured in a corner of the bar at Obberammergau by a German army colonel.

"The problem with you air force guys is you think a helicopter is an aeroplane. it isn't, it's a TRUCK!!"

A non meeting of minds it seemed.

The Ancient Mariner

[CoffmanStarter]

Similar story ... Army Officer referred to helicopters as "MT Air" :=

[LadyV]

Hi everyone,


I am the daughter of Alan's wife (and his daughter is my sister), I am trying to gather together information about him as my sister never met her dad and I feel that after all this time it would be nice for her to have some stories of him. If anyone has any pictures, stories or anything that they would like to share I would be very grateful.


Thanks
Lady V

[Flugzeug A]

Just come across this via another post.
I have no Military or aviation experience , I’m just a civvie who likes flying things but I’m fascinated!
Is he self proclaimed ‘Mr Sea Harrier’ and ‘Her Majesty’s top gun’ or did someone else dub him that?
Are both correct?
Did he shoot down the most enemy aircraft in the Falklands?
WHAT did he shoot down in the Falklands?
I’m trying to read a sense of humour into the little I’ve read so far on his site but can’t find much , is that just me?
Why does he appear to hate the RAF so much?
Asking here as there are 2 sides to every story , I love discussion & it’s possibly more balanced than simply Googling it.
Thanks.

[Asturias56]

Whatever you do don't encourage him

he was a great pilot who served his country well but has turned into a total obsessive self publicist who no-one takes seriously (unless they are newspaper editor short of an inflammatory quote)

[SASless]

At pprune there are about an unlimited number of sides to a tale.

[Old-Duffer]

The quickest way to wind Sharky up is to remind him that in 1923, the name Fleet Air Arm was given to naval aircraft but it was the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Air Force.

It must be admitted that the RN were not best served by the RAF and I commend books by Cdr David Hobbs for a measured commentary on the difficulties experienced.