JAA-FCL PPL - IMCR Still Possible?

[scoobysnack]

Hello all,

Please forgive the ignorance. I have searched pprune and other forums for over an hour.

Can one as a JAR PPL still be issued with the IMCR? Is the deadline in 2014?

Or did/does one of these deadlines 21/03/12 or 30/06/12 or 17/09/12 stand true?:confused:

Thanks for the clarification.

KR

[riverrock83]

See my summary here:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/493704-jaa-easa-should-i-wait.html#post7376723

My comment We also know that you can still add an IMC rating to a licence that looks like a JAR licence before it is converted. I don't have a reference for - it came from someone else's forum post. The CAA don't have an answer to this or whether you will be able to add a new IR(r) to a Part-FCL licence before April 2014.

However, there is the interesting line in CAP 804 Part I Part E 3.3.4 page 546 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804rfs.pdf):
IMC Ratings or privileges gained after 7 April 2014 are not convertible to restricted IR
on Part-FCL licences.This suggests that you can add them before that date.

You will always be able to get an IMCR which would be put onto an additional non EASA UK licence but after April 2014 it would not be usable on EASA aircraft.

Clear as mud.

[Slopey]

From the PPL/IR website,

Q: Will applications for UK IMC Ratings to be included in existing JAR-FCL pilot licences made between 1 July 2012 and 8 Apr 2014 result in the holder's licence being converted to a Part-FCL licence with IR(Restricted)?

A: Yes.

So you have until the 8th April 2014, after which time you can only exercise the privileges on EASA aircraft. Although nobody seems to know if you can add a IR(R) directly to a Part-FCL. But as long as you have a JAA licence, you can add the IMCr to that, then convert it when it expires.

And from the horse's mouth, the CAA interim statement on the IMCr:

On conversion to a Part-FCL aeroplane licence, the holder of a UK-issued aeroplane licence that includes the privileges of the UK IMCR prior to 8th April 2014 will have a Restricted IR included in the Part-FCL licence.

So provided you have it on your JAA licence prior to conversion, or are converting to Part-FCL when you apply to get the rating added, or leave it on your JAA licence and convert later, it shouldn't be an issue, and there's no need for a supplementary UK licence (until after 2014 where you'll need it to fly non-EASA types anyway).


See CAA Interim Statement on the IMCr (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/Revised%20Statement%20UK%20IMC%20RATING%20May%202012%20_v3.p df)

Certainly, my IMCr instructor sees no problem getting the rating added after the 17th Sept.

[BEagle]

scoobysnack, if an IMCr application is received by the CAA before 17 Sep 2012, it will be included in a CAA-issued JAR-FCL PPL(A) in the normal manner.

If the application is received between 17 Sep 2012 and 8 Apr 2014, it will be issued as an Instrument Rating (Restricted) in the licence, which will also be converted to a part-FCL PPL(A).

Privileges, revalidation and renewal requirements for the IR(R) will be identical to those currently applicable to the IMCr.

[The Grim EPR]

Sorry to jump on the thread and apologies for doubtlessly missing the detail elsewhere, but could the experts advise me about my IMC-R renewal please?

My IMC-R expires March 2013.

Can I renew it with the same examininer that tested me for the initial? He isn't a full IR examiner.

Can I do the revalidation prior to the rating expiring? If yes, how long in advance and do I lose / waste the remaining time, or is the date extended from the date of the current rating expiring?

Will the renewal test be the same as it was for the IMC-R?

Will I then get an IR(R)?

Will this be valid for 25 months?

Will that be the time that I will need to convert my JAA licence to an EASA one?

Are there any gotchas that I need to worry about?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[BEagle]

See CAP804 Section 5 Part E pp4-5 para 3.5.

Your IMCr may be revalidated by flight test during the present period of validity; this test may be conducted by any Examiner who is currently empowered to do so. Whether or not he/she conducted the original test is immaterial.

An IMCr is valid for 25 months from the date of test. So if revalidated early you will in effect 'lose' some unexpired validity. I have also asked the CAA to confirm whether the IMCr revalidation flight test may be accepted in lieu of the '1 hr training flight with instructor' for SEP Class Rating revalidation by experience under FCL.740.A(b)(1)(ii) (as is currently the case).

It will probably be simpler (and perhaps cheaper) to revalidate or renew your IMCr after 17 Sep 2012, then submit your licence and rating for conversion.

[fattony]

I didn't think this was true:

there's no need for a supplementary UK licence (until after 2014 where you'll need it to fly non-EASA types anyway)

I was under the impression you could fly non-EASA aircraft on an EASA licence. Not everyone has a UK CAA licence and the CAA have stopped issuing them so this would mean someone getting their licence after 17th Sept would never be able to fly non-EASA types. Or am I confused?

[BEagle]

It isn't true.

The ANO has been amended so that pilots holding part-FCL PPLs with SEP Class Ratings may exercise those privileges on non-EASA aeroplanes meeting the SEP Class definition.

Which means that you may fly, for example, a Chipmunk or Piper TriPacer on a part-FCL PPL with SEP Class Rating.

But after 8 Apr 2014 you may not fly, for example, a PA28 or a Cessna 152 on a legacy UK (non-JAR/non-EASA) PPL with SEP Class Rating - except within the scope of the LAPL(A) and then only until 7 Apr 2015. .

[The Grim EPR]

Thanks BEagle. I shall wait until March next year, do the flight test then and following that, send my licence away to be converted to an EASA one with my newly revalidated IR(R) on.

Great advice and knowledge as always.

[Slopey]

Ahh - my bad, thanks for the clarification Beagle, I was looking at it from the wrong way round on that comment.

[scoobysnack]

Thanks for the concise responses riverrock83, Slopey and BEagle.

It seems that there is still much unknown or "hidden" for want of a better word within the endless reams of paper and that this may be only just the beginning....

I shall call the school tomorrow and get the IMCr done.

Regards