I Like ARSSE (The Army Rumour Site)

[The Old Fat One]

So I'm going tread carefully here...let's see what happens.

Military aviation connection...it concerns a bloke who is a military aviator.

Privacy issues...LOL, not really...kinda in the public eye, so to speak.

Point is ARRSE is doing it large (and with great wit). Pprune not so much.

So my ten penneth. Good skills young sir, but are our lords and masters digging rather a big hole if they let this by. Can think of several "players" of bygone years that might be trotting down to the nearest military aware barrister having been 1021'd for rather less.

Never mind the future "strip billards" defence, whenever "conduct unbecoming" looms large over the next generation of lively miscreants.

PS Borrowed from said ARSSE...

To whoever took the photos and flogged them. Karma will get you; it may take time, but it will get you.

[500N]

"To whoever took the photos and flogged them. Karma will get you; it may take time, but it will get you."

How about someone will set her up and get some compromising
photos which will then be spread across the 'net because the media
will lap it up as a "payback story" with a Prince Harry link.

[Wensleydale]

How about someone will set her up


Is it a she? I thought perhaps that the security chaps could have taken the photos - if not, then where were they?

[Wander00]

Isn't there ANYONE on the staff at St James's Palace whose job it is to stop this guy from making a public idiot of himself.

[peppermint_jam]

A serviceman, naked in Vegas? Are there any that haven't been??? :E

[Tourist]

Wander

What is wrong with you?!

[dctyke]

Quote:
How about someone will set her up and get some compromising
photos which will then be spread across the 'net because the media
will lap it up as a "payback story" with a Prince Harry link.


Set her up? she is most probably a slapper (like the one prince charming is er, hugging) and would love the opportunity to tell all and make even more money. It hasn't done Paris Hilton any harm at all!

[Trim Stab]

He'd be a popular choice with the Royals as next Honorary Colonel Commandant RM.

[Courtney Mil]

The whole thing is such a non-story. Who cares if the man had fun with friends in Vagas? As peppermint_jam says, plenty have been there before.

He should have taken the wind out of everyone's sails by posting them on his VisageLivre page himself.

[randyrippley]

about the only thing Harry is guilty of is bestiality
After all, that girl looks a bit of a dog

Amusing side note - this morning on Radio Lancashire the comedian Ted Robins (one of the presenters) accidentally called him "Princess Harry". Whats he trying to tell us?

[Shannon volmet]

Shock, horror! Bloke goes to Vegas and gets naked with hooker(s) It's never happened before has it. Someone needs to get al life/get out more, ffs.

[sitigeltfel]

Shock, horror! Bloke goes to Vegas and gets naked with hooker(s) It's never happened before has it. Someone needs to get al life/get out more, ffs.

That is not the issue. His disgrace lies in the fact that he was stupid enough to get himself into a compromising position in front of cameras. It says volumes about his judgement.

Have your fun.........but be discreet, and watch your six.

[PTT]

Nigh on impossible given the ubiquity of cameraphones. A picture can be taken and published within minutes.

[dctyke]

Could have been worse, on a red flag in the nineties some of our linies took a couple of 'ladies' back to the 'Super Eight' for fun and frolics. They managed to persuade all of the jolly boys to de-robe then promptly pulled a gun and ran off with their wallets and jeans. 50cent breakfasts for the rest of the det :-)

[The Old Fat One]

but be discreet, and watch your six.


In all fairness, judging from the photo's he was paying more attention to covering his 12.

[Pontius Navigator]

At least he was not doing a Hugh Grant!

[charliegolf]

To be fair, he is not the sharpest tool in the kit, is he? That's not a crime, and everyone will get over it. My guess is that his bruv, even when single, just would not have done it. Why is that, do you think?

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

CG, are you trying to stir up something which, I believe, has been comprehensively debunked?

[Shack37]

To be fair, he is not the sharpest tool in the kit, is he? That's not a crime, and everyone will get over it. My guess is that his bruv, even when single, just would not have done it. Why is that, do you think?

Some back-up to your statement here would be welcome.

[Shack37]

Love the thread title. Believe that, from the reports referred to, Harry doesn't.

[Jayand]

Perhaps shack because his brother is the heir to the throne!!!!

[Wander00]

Given the topic, it seems that the title of this thread is particulary appropriate (less a superfluous "S")

[Shack37]

Perhaps shack because his brother is the heir to the throne!!!!


I was referring to the comment:
"To be fair, he is not the sharpest tool in the kit, is he?
and requesting some justification for it.

His brother is not heir to the throne, his father is heir to the throne followed by his brother.

[MAINJAFAD]

He'd be a popular choice with the Royals as next Honorary Colonel Commandant RM..

Quite right Trim, Saw a whole load of Bootnecks get naked while dancing on tables once, (ranks ranging from Cpl to Lt Col to boot :eek::eek::eek:).

[NutLoose]

I remember two guys on arrival on detachment flashing their tackle to a cleaning lady in the NAFF 1 in Gib and asking her what she thought of these.. having just got of the Britannia 737 trooper, she didn't think a lot of it, and neither did her RAFP Sergeant hubby, they even made it to the same 737 back to the UK and back onto Germany..

The resulting charges they both got fined different amounts, we wondered if it was due to size issues and they were fined accordingly :p

[phil9560]

Re. Young Mr Wiindsor this is the text I received off a serving officer with 3 tours of Afghanistan behind him.


'His job is government official essentially.Unacceptable'

Dunno myself.

[BEagle]

His Royal Highness Prince Henry of Wales is third in the line of succession to the British throne.

He is also a serving officer in the British Army.

His behaviour in Las Vegas demonstrated conduct unbecoming of an officer and a gentleman.

The public had sympathy for him following the death of his mother, but his previous history of drug taking, substance abuse, drunken outbursts and inappropriate behaviour were wholly unacceptable for a royal personage. Vomiting outside the ladies' lavatory in a Mayfair club a couple of months ago, after yet another night of partying, shows that this Hooray Henry still has a lot of growing up to do.

This latest excess, where he was caught behaving like some spoiled playboy in an expensive Las Vegas hotel suite is hardly going to endear him to the Royal Family, let alone those members of the public who still require high personal standards amongst the monarchy.

Wise up, Wales minor.

[Load Toad]

I really couldn't care less what he does, his father doesn't care either - Prince Charles though is chuffing livid.

[cokecan]

i think anyone who judges a servicemens actions on the basis of who their parents are ought to retire to the ante room and seek forgiveness from the Mess Webley.

regardless of who his parents are, and what position he holds - though, you'll note, didn't apply for, and was given no choice over - a soldier has gone to vegas, had a naked bar and shagged a slapper. and a cnut took photos. big. fcuking. deal.

those who whinge about such activities and who claim previous/current service must be both so utterly boring that they were among the 1% of each unit not invited to naked bar, and so gut-wrenchingly ugly that not even a whore would shag them.

he's a good lad, i like him - and i hope gives the good news to whatever cnut or publicity whore sold the photo's.

[Jayand]

Beagle are you for real? His behaviour was tame compared to the activities in many an O's
Mess bar up and down the country.
Yes it wasn't in the mess but so what? It's hypocracy of the highest order, judging one young officers behaviour but knowing that worse behaviour is positively encouraged in other arenas!
Did he break the law? No. Is he young and having fun? Yes. Has it happened before with the Royals? You can bet it has but prob before 24 hr insatiable news coverage and camera phones. Prince Andrew will be breathing a sigh of relief that this technology wasn't around twenty five years ago.
Get a grip.

[Load Toad]

I'm not in the services, never have been, know a lot that are - can't say any I've known or know are blushing virgins when it comes to living it up. And I don't begrudge any of them their fun given what many of them have to do for the country.

[BEagle]

His behaviour was tame compared to the activities in many an O's Mess bar up and down the country.


I very much doubt that, even these days. Standards are unlikely to have slipped that far in the years since I retired from the RAF.

What vile practices some drunken squaddies allegedly get up to in secluded areas of some god-forsaken barracks is one thing, what an officer of the Household Division, third in the line of succession to the British throne, does in public is entirely another.

I consider that his Colonel-in-Chief should require him to resign his commission. Notwithstanding his prowess as an army helicopter co-pilot, his behaviour was far beneath that required of an officer.

Until he mends his ways, he is quite demonstrably not fit to hold the Queen's Commission.

[Load Toad]

His mistake was being photographed getting up to it.

[Tourist]

Beagle

What you fail to realise is that the Prince is a member of the military, not the RAF, so rather different standards are expected.

There is nothing in those pictures that is remotely below standard to anyone with a bit of class.

He is a young single man naked in a private hotel room with naked girls.
All of that is not just ok, but should be lauded.

There is nothing "vile" about sex and nakedness. I think you may have a problem. Go see a therapist.

It speaks volumes about your attitude that you consider that he should resign "Notwithstanding his prowess as an army helicopter co-pilot"

What is wrong with you?!!
We are at war!
I would have the Marquis DeSade flying naked except for a neon flashing buttplug in the cockpit against the enemy if it would help us win!

Oh, and yes I have seen far (:eek:) worse/better in RAF Officers Messes. RN Wardrooms and Army Officers Messes.

You need to move on and stop embarassing yourself.
Honestly, its like watching your dad dancing with Mary Whitehouse.

[NutLoose]

I actually agree with Beags on this.... For one thing, what signal is it sending out to the world, yet another pissed Brit on holiday behaving like a total arse..
What he is doing is bringing us all down...
And what happens when someone else gets caught in the same predicament, you cannot have two standards where discipline is concerned, you need to be seen to have a set standard, and what he has shown out in public is far below what should be expected of an Officer.
There is a huge difference in what goes on in private in Messes the world over and that which is done in the Public gaze, intentional or not, he should never have put himself in that position. The fact it is splashed across the World shows it was NOT private in a bedroom.

[NutLoose]

What happened Al ?

[Al R]

I once showed Harry the M107 .50 cal and he looked up at his mum and said 'One day, can I be a soldier?'. I won't tell you what she said. Harry is a military officer and he has been trained to be a military officer, and he is acting as you might expect a young military officer to act off duty when he imagines no one is looking (if I had to set through that closing ceremony, I'd feel the need to get hammered too).

But there is a world of difference between getting innocently and pleasantly sloshed at a naked bar with your military buddies at no one's expense - and engaging in a drug crazed gang rape after trashing a hotel. And lets face it, this is hardly Tailhook. Puritanical civvies look upon nakedness as shameful, but getting nekked is all part of the military craic; everything on show, everyone equal (well.. almost) and what you see is what you get.

I'm baffled by the whole thing. Its as if we are suggesting that innocent cavorting is a bad thing. Lets be honest, the skuzzy media needed an excuse to show these pics and it has to find an angle to justify it. Why? Because any redtop publishing the strapline 'Harry has some innocent fun and we have the pictures', without covering its 6 by thinking up another 'public interest angle' about his 'many, varied and latest behavioural shortcomings' would be served with a severe dig.

And if all he is 'guilty' of, is naivety, then what has the world come to when a 27 year old who goes to Vegas hotel can only read the Gideon bible there? Its also not so much a reflection of him, but more of us, if we find fault with him over this - and thats the sad part. Finally, a point about The Sun searching its soul and needing to show the pics 'at any cost' because we, the public, had the 'right' to see them? Is this the same valiant, crusading, Super Soaraway Sun that wimped out of showing the Danish cartoons?

http://www.echelonwealthcare.co.uk/site/wp-content/uploads/stuff035.jpg

[BEagle]

Well, Tourist, ignoring your snide comment:

What you fail to realise is that the Prince is a member of the military, not the RAF, so rather different standards are expected.

I feel that those who assert:

There are few things more becoming of a British Military Officer than getting naked at parties.

Nakedness, carousing and unsuitable attire have a long and proud history in the British Military and Royalty for longer than many other militaries and indeed countries I could mention have existed.

are perhaps more in need of therapy than others.

And Al R, as for:

...getting nekked is all part of the military craic; everything on show, everyone equal (well.. almost) and what you see is what you get.

That is total nonsense. As is the notion that:

getting innocently and pleasantly sloshed at a naked bar with your military buddies

is normal, acceptable behaviour.

Maybe it's a rockape / support helicopter thing, but certainly was not common in the rest of the Royal Air Force during my service - and I doubt whether it is now.

[downsizer]

As with most threads here these days this has at best a tenuous link to mil avaition. All we need now is an airworthiness angle to drag it off topic and we can all sit smugly content that this once useful forum is dragged further down.:hmm::bored:

[Al R]

Beags,

My point was/is, is that military bonding is similar to a team sport like rugby; you don't have any naked hang ups in the changing rooms after a good match because you have all fought for one common cause. I wasn't implying that the military is full of closet nudists but there is probably a link between it and bonding (in my opinion).

[TT2]

Well spoken young BEags - the naysayers forget there is a certain discretion on holding a commission. As his Granny owns his outfit you'd think a bit of decorum would be in order. Spoiled brat comes to mind.

[Melchett01]

Maybe it's a rockape / support helicopter thing ...

Not that I'm aware of on the SH units I have served at. In fact, the only naked bar I have ever seen was, I'm afraid to say, at a Tornado unit whilst I was holding - I thought it was great. To a woman, none of the females were interested, which meant that the one or 2 of us that didn't want to strip off with the rest left the old and fat to get on with whatever it was they did with the peanuts whilst we spent a rather pleasant night with the girls.

[NutLoose]

Beags,

My point was/is, is that military bonding is similar to a team sport like rugby; you don't have any naked hang ups in the changing rooms after a good match because you have all fought for one common cause. I wasn't implying that the military is full of closet nudists but there is probably a link between it and bonding (in my opinion).

.
Cool, so as the female portion of the Services now routinely take on active service alongside their male counterparts, I take it the WAAF WRAC WREN blocks are all a thing of the past and mixed bathing is now actively encouraged to strengthen the bonding between the sexes....

Where do I sign back up?


I really couldn't care less what he does, his father doesn't care either - Prince Charles though is chuffing livid.

It's ok, I saw what and who you were getting at :8

[Shack37]

I really couldn't care less what he does, his father doesn't care either -
Prince Charles though is chuffing livid.


This constant smarta*se trait of inventing new ways to repeat the same old sh*te is getting really boring. Even if it were true.

[Jayand]

Well Beagle the Airforce I was and still am in has had many naked moments and I am neither a rock ape or SH. Go to any service rugby club on a sat evening and there is a fair chance of nakedness, go on a service rugby club tour particularly abroad and you might as well not take any clothes! All ranks get involved including our Commisioned members (gosh really).
I remember naked mess rugby O's vs Sgt Mess on more than one occasion after exchange drinks (Bit homo I k now) and I have yet to see anyone reprimanded let alone lose their commision!
Yes it is slightly embarrassing for the Royal Family but only cos he was caught, a little tighter control is all that is required.

Harry and his brother have done so much for the monarchy and are doing great for their country in their military roles, cut him some slack ffs.

Perhaps Beagle if you spent a little less time on here (19,000 posts!) You would have a less stuffy grip on reality.

[Tourist]

Interesting definition some people on here have of the word "public"


So if I was to set up a hidden cam in your hotel bedroom and then publish the resulting video as "public", would that be ok?
After all, if there is a camera you don't know about and didn't authorise in your room then that doesn't excuse your behaviour apparently?



I am interested what the main crux of the problem is.
What makes this behaviour "boorish"

Is it nakedness?

Nakedness in Vegas?
Nakedness with more than one person?
Naked with the light on?
Naked during Billiards?

Naked Billiards in Vegas with the lights on with more than one person?

If the latter, would the removal of any one of those factors make it ok?

Which arrangements would be ok?

Naked Billiards with one other?
Naked group Billiards in the dark? (it would certainly add to the difficulty, but with the ever present danger of grabbing the wrong "cue")

What if a girlfriend of Harry was to film him during sex and put it on Youtube? Would that be his fault?


Nutloose

"I take it the WAAF WRAC WREN blocks are all a thing of the past and mixed bathing is now actively encouraged to strengthen the bonding between the sexes...."

Certainly the five deck dash has seen more than it's fair share of the fairer sex. In some cases very welcome, and in some:eek:

I think the real issue is that a certain proportion of the RAF (nobody in the Army, RN and certainly RM seem to have a problem) is made up of those wheezy late developers who never felt comfortable getting naked in the changing room....
Get over it.
Some of you have probably had sex since then.

Personally, I think that if you have not done something very close to naked group billiards in Vegas at some point in your life then you must be very dull at parties.

[NutLoose]

Well I did manage to avoid playing Freckles with the Army, though I thought it was a cr*p game myself..
Shackletons.. she didn't appear to enjoy having the ground power plugged into her ear :O

And yes of course we did, and it wasn't billiard balls that ended up getting pocketed.

[Whenurhappy]

There's one thing getting naked whilst drunk at the Rugby Club...

On the issue of Naked Bar, I recently worked with a very experienced and thoroughly likeable Marine; his predecessor - a bit of a legend from the Falkands - was also a thoroughly professional chap. Several of us brought up the issue of 'Naked Bar' with both of them over some drinks during the handover and they were both of the belief that it is a dying habit or tradition. They both regarded it as a 'not particularly clever thing to do these days' because fo the ubiquity of video cameras etc.

Opinions amongst US colleagues vary - most are intrigued by the Royal family and they are genuinely amazed that both Princes do 'proper' military jobs. Some thought that Harry's antics, whilst a little risque, were ok, whereas others (perhaps tapping into the underlying Puritanism that is common in the US Forces) thought that his behaviour lacked a degree of mature judgement.

Yes - what Harry did would not pass for comment if it was any other junior officer, but he cannot escape the fact that he is also a major public figure/celebrity in his own right and that discretion in his behaviour is necessary. I would normally refrain from commenting on fellow officers on PPrune, but this matter is well and truely in the public domain. I was imagining what I would do if I were his Sqn Cdr?

[Tourist]

"I consider that his Colonel-in-Chief should require him to resign his commission. Notwithstanding his prowess as an army helicopter co-pilot, his behaviour was far beneath that required of an officer.

Until he mends his ways, he is quite demonstrably not fit to hold the Queen's Commission."

Imagine coming across this quote cold, with no idea to who or what it referred.

Reading this quote, one might reasonably assume that the person being referred to had committed some heinous or treasonous crime against his brothers in arms or the nation.

Imagine trying to guess what the person had done.....


Periodically on this Forum there are threads/posts from posters which revel in the chance to stick the boot in annonymously to some other member of the of their own military who is in public trouble/difficulty.

For example:
The girly Red Arrow thread
The Harrier Crash in Afghan
The various posts/threads implying that Harry and William don't deserve their wings and only got them because of their position, and other similarly unedifying examples of appalingly disloyal behaviour?

The military is a band of brothers, not a club where you stab your oppo in the bag so you can crawl over his body to to make yourself look better. Each egregious example breaks down the trust which is essential for an operationaly effective service.

Perhaps the quote at the start of this post refers to one of the cowardly posters of these spineless accusations? Someone who hides behind anonymity to revel in the mistakes of others or snipe at those in the public eye?
Perhaps finally there is a call to remove such people from this forum?

No, of course not. How could I be so stupid?!


This is about something far more serious!

It refers to single young Army officer getting naked in his private hotel suite in Vegas.


Personally, I've been naked in public in Vegas. Didn't get asked to resign. I'm slightly ashamed to admit that I was not playing Billiards. Maybe next time.

Anybody else been naked in Vegas?
Anyone been naked anywhere else noteworthy?


Oh, one last thing.

If you only served as an RAF Officer in a cold war, impugning the right of an Army Officer who has served on the ground in Afghanistan to hold a Queen's commision makes you a tw@t in my book.

[Tourist]

Whenurhappy

"I was imagining what I would do if I were his Sqn Cdr?"

I would assume you would do the same as with any other serving officer.

Imagine the scenario.

Flt Lt Pretty Girl comes into your office in tears and asks to have a chat.

You ask what is wrong, and she says:
" Last week I was having a private party with some girls and guys we met on holiday in my hotel room, and one of the guys took some pictures I didn't know about. I had had a few drinks, and was a little uninhibited, so when everybody got naked so did I. He published them on the internet! Can I have the backing of the RAF to support the lawsuit against this invasion of my privacy?"

"Of course you can my dear, you have been treated appalingly."

[Rigga]

Carousing around like an obnoxious rich kid with nothing to do but travel, party and sh@g local wenches. A professional Sloane Ranger making a @rse of himself and annoying others around him by trying to climb some social tree or other....

Just like his dad really - No, not that Dad? - the one he looks like.

[lj101]

Anybody else been naked in Vegas?
Anyone been naked anywhere else noteworthy?

Yes
Yes


Beags,

I have to tell you something.
On Red Flag one year, a colleague of ours ended up in a threesome with his VC10 co pilot and a very pretty female (admin branch)Corporal. I wasn't invited in case you wondered.

I have been naked swimming with a VC10 co pilot and 3 (or was it 4 ) Harrier pilots plus a Wg Cdr and a Sgt. I'm sorry.

No videos or pictures seen to date.

[Tourist]

Rigga

"Carousing around like an obnoxious rich kid with nothing to do but travel, party and sh@g local wenches"

Yup, that's why I became a pilot.

p.s.
I should add "disputes others parentage in a vicious manner despite evidence to the contrary" to my list of egregious behaviour worthy of censure on this website. What would possibly be gained by saying it even if it were true? A general sense of shadenfreude and hatred of the rich? Would you say it to his face? i doubt you have the courage.

[NutLoose]

On Red Flag one year, a colleague of ours ended up in a threesome with his VC10 co pilot and a very pretty Corporal. I wasn't invited in case you wondered.

Always thought some of those male coffee jockies (stewards) were a bit dodgy.

[BEagle]

lj101, but you're not third in line of succession to the British throne.

Tourist, your exhibitionist streak speaks volumes. And not particularly pleasant ones at that....:rolleyes:

[randyrippley]

"What vile practices some drunken squaddies allegedly get up to in secluded areas of some god-forsaken barracks is one thing, what an officer of the Household Division............does in public is entirely another."

actually Harry deserves praise for picking up some women, instead of following the Household Cav's usual shirtlifting habits

[Tourist]

Beagle

"Tourist, your exhibitionist streak speaks volumes. And not particularly pleasant ones at that...."

No more than your puritanical streak speaks of you.


Being overly clenched is not a good thing.
It screams REPRESSED.

[Biggus]

This issue clearly divides people into two very distinct camps, who may have to agree to differ....

On the one hand there is the "he is a junior officer in the armed forces, where such high jinxs are perfectly acceptable by a young single individual, especially as all involved were unattached and consenting"....

The there is the "he is third in line to the throne and should be setting a better example" camp.

Which is he - unfortunately both, and that is the line he must tread with care on a daily basis. How many "average" junior officers would get 2 weeks off to attend every major event at the Olympics with front row seats, including being the senior British representative at the closing ceremony. Followed by time off in Las Vegas, and if the papers are to believed, time before that partying with some hooray henrys in the Caribbean. That would be my full leave entitlement used up, and what other Royal duties/charity work has he done this year. He is perhaps an Army Officer by choice, a member of the Royal family by birth.

He is between a rock and a hard place. If he made a mistake, it was the classic one of getting caught - which in this day of cameras in phones and people willing to "kiss and tell" is all too easy.....


I'm not sure what purpose this thread (indeed most pprune threads!) will serve, as nobody on one side appears to be willing to as much as acknowledge the viewpoint of the other!

[Pontius Navigator]

Oh dear, I was thinking I had missed out on something until I just remembered:

In an hotel in Oldenberg, a number of the crew were all in the jaccuzi. We were joined by one of the others who came in his underpants, very discrete. Once he was in the jaccuzi we all stood up - in the buff. The next day he was the one who had to go commando :)

Then the Blue Lagoon at Kef, 0n00, snow all around, crystal clear sky. Bliss!

I believe it is far more commercialised now, shame.

[Tourist]

Jindabyne

"I don't care if he had won a VC in Afghan, the Prince is a very spoiled and immature young man with no apparent regard for his position of high responsibility, who is a disgrace to the country and his family"

That says everything about you and your attitude to military effectiveness vs po-faced prudery.
Perhaps Harry comes from a military generation that values effect over image rather more.

Re my comment.

In my book an officer who has never been on a two-way range doesn't get to judge the officerlike qualities of those who have.

I put myself in the former category by the way. Prefer to look down from on high, well clear of the sharpened guava.

[randyrippley]

"one of the others who came in his underpants, very discrete"

Too much detail
But what did you do to him for that to happen?

[randyrippley]

"I'll withdraw to the poolside bar, along with my simliarly genitally-covered friends"
Is that something to do with being an bunch of old todgers?

[cargosales]

Bloody hell .. the puritanical crap and hypocrisy from a few people on this thread is incredible.

The lad was letting off steam and had a reasonable expectation of privacy without people reporting on what he was doing in his hotel room.

I'm so glad that certain people who claim to have been in the Air Force have never committed or been involved in arson (e.g. piano burning), cruelty to animals (piggy in the [Coningsby?] mess), vandalism (destruction of cars, both private and service, hangars, equipment assorted and goodness knows what else), offences against the firearms act (e.g. mess cannons, exploding tables, flower arrangements, doors and more at Dining-in nights) Blatant sexism (I recall a rather nice selection of ladies undies on the ceiling of the Binbrook bar ;))

etc etc etc.

Many of which I might add were generally regarded as 'high spirits' when done by officers but 'wanton hooliganism' when done by ORs.

It's a bloody good job there were no camera phones around a few years ago eh?

[cargosales]

Oh, and yes I have skinny-dipped before with others, discreetly. Nowadays though, it wouldn't be a pretty sight


I'm sure it wouldn't been. Even back then.

And regardless of how discreet you thought you were being, all it would have taken was one mercenary bitch with a hidden camera phone for us all to have known what a pretty sight it wasn't :ugh:

[Jayand]

I see it very simply, there are three ways of looking at this.
1. It's a non story leave the lad alone but tighten up your your security please Sir.
2. Your a boring **** who never went to a decent party cos you were'nt invited.
3. Your a hypocrite with nothing better to do than jump on someone who is having fun, oh and probably jealous.

Some of you are 2 & 3, I of course am # 1.

[Jayand]

The ironic thing is this probably makes him a better officer in the eyes of his men.
Despite being third in line to the thrown and having everything, he has shown himself to be just like them, volunteering for thr front line, getting lashed up and chasing women.
They no longer see him as some silver spoon in his mouth toff whom they must follow, but as an effective officer who like any youngster likes to let his hair down.
What would you prefer?
In the Air Forces "finest hour" do you suppose the Officers and men went back to barracks of an evening for a quiet cup of cocoa? Sometimes yes, other times they went out and got smashed, chased ladiesand dare I say it got naked occasionally (if only the public school ones).

Very much a storm in some boring fuddy duddies ovaltine cup!

[Milo Minderbinder]

"third in line to the thrown"

Is that some new kind of pub game? A bit like dwarf tossing, or chucking penguins?

[goudie]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the antics involved when going through the routine of singing 'Zulu Warrior', 'This Old Shirt Of Mine' and 'Dance of the Flaming A**holes'. Performed in many a rugby club and bars, various, by a host of military personnel, commisioned and non-commisioned alike!

If, just if, no pics had been taken but Harry's party antics had been leaked as a bit of a rumour ie no actual evidence but it was reckoned to be true, would there still have been the same censuring outcry by those offended by his behaviour?
OK he still did it but it seems it's only the visual evidence, over which he had no control, that has, in my opinion, inflamed some extremely harsh judgements against him. Well on this forum anyway.

[NutLoose]

The problem isn't (to servicemen both current and ex), what he did, as we all know what goes on and what happens to let off steam etc... it's the fact it's splashed about the media showing him doing it... Something that comes across to those that haven't served or are serving as a playboy image and not in keeping either the perceived image of an officer " and a Gentleman" and maybe unacceptable to see in a future possible Monarch. We are not talking the way the younger generation may see it, but the later.

It's like Donald Trump coming out with the fact he has a giant comb over, we all know that but no one expects him to show it.

[ACW418]

Jayand I am a No 1 too.

So not all of us are old codgers with no imagination. Jindabyne was on the course ahead of me on BFT and he is entitled to his opinion just as you and I are to ours. We do not have to agree.

Whatever we think regrettably the whole thing will be decided by stuffy palace advisers and Army senior officers.

My final thought is that some on this forum have admitted to carrying things in their aircraft they shouldn't have so acting in an un-officer like manner yet they did not resign their commisions but are baying for Prince Harry to do so for his indiscretions. Double standards?

ACW

[Jayand]

Throne, thrown, ooops I blame Stella artois (other lagers are available).
Anyone heard the story of a herc crew flying part of a sortie entirely naked?
Board of enquiry would have been interesting if the worst had happened.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I'm with Tourist. Beagle - you're wrong I'm afraid on this one (rare).


WWW

[PTT]

Stopping here for several people...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z237/Cyril_Clunge/outragebus.jpg

[BEagle]

Prince Harry faces 'dressing down' from commanding officer - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-harry/9499226/Prince-Harry-faces-dressing-down-from-commanding-officer.html)

Perhaps the ramifications of the prince's behaviour will lead to a more general review of the standards to be expected from those who hold the Queen's Commission.

From what one reads in some of the posts on this thread, such a review of personal behavioural standards appears to be long overdue.

[tucumseh]

Beagle

Agreed. But perhaps other UK Apache pilots who spent their leave in multi-$k per night Las Vegas suites paid for by Mr Wynn could offer an opinion. :oh:

[SOSL]

I once got naked with 2 female civil servants, in a sauna, not in Vegas and sadly neither of them had a camera so I can't prove it happened..... but it did. For some reason I didn't lose my commission either.

Rgds SOS

[Gazeem]

Two things I have in common with Prince Harry Sandbags at 19 and getting a good telling off from Peter Wall in my mid twenties.

Is it not the natural order of things? A donation of salary or a months extras will see him toeing the line - and in 15 years time he will probably be on the other side of the desk 'adjusting' the behaviour of some boistrous subaltern.

There is a moral argument here I think - I can imagine these photographs perhaps being a recruiting sergeant for those with a hatred of the decadent West - far more than any upset from the Mary Whitehouse brigade.

However, it does need to be tempered with a dose of contempory realism (and even historical realism having just read the accounts of drunken spitfire pilots taking off to face the Luftwaffe in the Summer of 1940 - are we accusing those men of having deficient moral courage or un-officer like behaviour? (I know not all were commissioned!)).

[Bob Viking]

I haven't seen the pictures of Harry (and don't intend to search for them) but what I'm reading on this forum makes me feel a little sad (yes I am a little tipsy). There is clearly a generational disparity at work. I personally couldn't care less what he does in his spare time and, if I'm honest, think he does pretty bloody well given his circumstances. BEagle et al often speak a lot of sense but sadly appear out of touch with life in the current Armed Forces (and life as a youngster). You can say what you like about his responsibilities as an heir to the throne but, as an officer, he's not doing too much wrong. He has proven himself operationally and is clearly enjoying life. Just because some fool posts his personal life online he should not be held any more accountable than any other officer that finds himself in a similar circumstance.
As for being heir to the throne, that's his business and once again I think he is actually a good ambassador for a modern Royal Family.
One last thing, I know people think it's funny to suggest his Father is not of Royal lineage but, apart from being bloody rude, have you not noticed the facial likeness between him and Prince Charles? His hair colour is not exactly proof otherwise.
BV

[Jayand]

Spot on Bob, Harry couldn't be more like Charles if he tried.
If Harry's sexual moral compass is slightly skewed (it's not) then I blame his mother, she hardly set a great example did she? And she was meant to be a lady.

[Pontius Navigator]

There is talk of being docked half a month's pay. For some that would be significant, for others it would hardly be noticed. If some restriction be needed, how about some arduous leadership somewhere, say at Paramali looking after homebound troops - but dry.

[barnstormer1968]

I have worked closely with the RAF quite a bit, and there were some outstanding people I met.

This thread is an interesting one IMHO as there are clearly some posters here who have broken masses of service rules, and taken part in lots of illegal activities while in paid crown service. I know this as I have read their 'stories' on this site. Oddly some of these same posters are now being very critical of the prince (and yes I know it has been said earlier on this thread, and that these very same posters are choosing to ignore the hints).

I wonder what they would have to say if he had been caught placing a webber BBQ onboard an aircraft, or illegally bringing cigarettes or alcohol into the country (but of course not being ones of the people who 'abused' this illegal activity by bringing too many. He could I suppose have been caught using hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax payers money fraudulently by picking up fresh salmon in a SH cab!

I cannot say if the prince is immature as I have NEVER met him or spent long enough in his company to have a sound opinion.

I feel sorry for him to have been caught out when he was doing something he thought was private, and at this point it must be remembered that attempting to burn a piano, or to use a mess cannon in public would result in arrest (and hopefully to some here the loss of commission it seems). Maybe his youth or possibly niavety let him down here, or maybe his security team did (I'm sure someone is looking ast this right now).

It does have to also be re said that he is not in the RAF, and that his day job includes such things as killing people using a 5.56 weapon, on blowing them into little pieces using a 30mm cannon! I find it odd that ending someones life who you have never met or spoken to and have no dislike for is seen as OK, but being naked in private is a huge no no.

[BEagle]

barnstormer1968, there is nothing illegal about bringing goods, lawfully bought in the USA, into the country as personal effects, on a military aeroplane, provided that they are declared to HMRC. If within the allowance, there is nothing to pay; if outside the allowance, most HMRC would generally be quite lenient. Whereas anyone bringing cigarettes or alcohol into the country in excess of their allowances would, when caught, certainly be facing disciplinary action. As happened quite recently.

PN, if there's any good to come of the prince's unacceptable behaviour, it's that a charity is likely to benefit financially.

Anyway, the ball is now firmly in the court of General Sir Peter Wall.

[Tourist]

Beagle

I'd be interested to know what action you would proscribe in the case of a young married officer who has repeatedly disobeyed orders in the field, is famous for misbehaviour off the field and has had a very public affair with a married woman that scandalises the press and produced a child. Apparently he is quite good at his job though. Should he be asked to resign his commission?

[Jayand]

I think the head of the Army has more pressing things to deal with other than worry about an Apache pilot having a good and perfectly legal time in the privacy of his own hotel room.
Dealing with the plummeting morale of his Officers and men, 63% of surveyed Officers stated that morale was low.
Dealing with the complex mess of preparing our withdrawl/defeat in Afghanistan.
If somebody could find exactly what Harry has done wrong in Queens regs I would be interested to see it.
No doubt somebody will spout bringing the Army into disrepute!!

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, point well made, maybe his private income should also be taken in to account?

[BEagle]

I'd be interested to know what action you would proscribe in the case of a young married officer who has repeatedly disobeyed orders in the field, is famous for misbehaviour off the field and has had a very public affair with a married woman that scandalises the press and produced a child. Apparently he is quite good at his job though. Should he be asked to resign his commission?

Two children, actually, the second died while an infant.

Ironic that it was one of Prince Harry's ancestors who suggested to said officer that his behaviour should be moderated.....

And I very much doubt whether this particular officer was given to drunken, naked carousing with the other members of his ships' companies.

[Tourist]

"And I very much doubt whether this particular officer was given to drunken, naked carousing with the other members of his ships' companies."


He did ask one of them to kiss him on his deathbed, so who knows.

Anyway, answer the question.
Should he lose his commission, or is that case somehow, different?

[The Cryptkeeper]

I feel compelled to post a reply to a lot of the comments written on this thread so far. Firstly I suspect none of you work with the Prince or have even met him. I have had the pleasure of working with him for the last couple of years and let me tell you he is a thoroughly decent, down to earth and pretty much all round good bloke.

What a lot of people don't seem to realise is that his life never stops. When we all knock off for the weekend or come back from exercise he is whisked off to some official engagement. So when he actually does get some time off it is (in my lowly opinion) well deserved. Imagine being on an extremely intense course (AH CTR) and not getting any down time? I can't and I doff my hat to him for maintaining is humour and humility throughout.

Finally, for all you doubters out there he is a very competent CPG and his experience on the ground as a JTAC has served him well. Anyone who thinks that he got through on anything else than merit is essentially insulting the professionalism of all the QHIs and instructors that have taught and mentored him throughout the last 3 years.

If he wants to let off steam by behaving like any other young army officer then let him - and consider the motives of the person who sold the pictures.

[Trim Stab]

Browse through ARRSe on this and you will see that to a man the troops are behind him.

What does it matter what craphat journos, lardy-butt historians and blunty intellectuals think?

[parabellum]

If somebody could find exactly what Harry has done wrong in Queens regs


I think Section 69 of the Army Act may, at a stretch, cover it, "Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Military Discipline", except it all happened in a supposedly private environment.

I'm of a similar age to BEagle, (I'm 1941), and am definitely on Harry's side, it was supposed to be in private and none of our bloody business.
(Harry's father, a commissioned officer, committed several times what was once a Courts Martial offence that would have cost him his commission, adultery!).

[beerdrinker]

A question for Beagle. Did you always behave with the utmost propriety and sobriety when down route on your "Vickers Funbus"?

[blaireau]

Perhaps there is a hint of commonality in the prim disapproval of some, expressed about the behaviour of this junior officer, and also of the robust treatment meted out on OCU's. Perhaps military life is not suited to the more sensitive souls!

[PTT]

Being a part of an organisation whose main aim is killing people = Fine
Nudity in the privacy of your own hotel room = Awful!

:ugh:

[flighthappens]

Sooo according to Beagle the behavior at the 1Gp Dining in night (Thread here http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/48124-1-gp-dining-night-waddington.html) was okay but young Harry cant have get naked in his own hotel room?

:rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

flight, he wasn't there. I was. Nothing inappropriate took place in public, at least before I left. It was either pitch black or behind the sofa.

[Whenurhappy]

Getting back to my earlier post when I speculated what I would have to say if I was his Sqn Cd, I've mulled over this and spoke to several colleagues about it.

I'd probably commiserate with him on his public exposure, but also counsel him on the need for greater discretion and not giving others ammunition that could be used back at him. I'd probably go a bit po-faced and stress that being a good officer is not just about being an increadibly popular and wealthy, and being surrounded by fruity young women...

And then probably haul out my QR 1074 (remember those?) which has the memorable line :'WP you are rapidly becoming a burden on the RAF',* stressing that there is a time and a place and that most of us have been there and got through it, too
.



* it was the short, sharp, shock I needed to get my life back on the rails, drink less and focus more on my professional duties (ie grow up!).

[Courtney Mil]

it was the short, sharp, shock I needed to get my life back on the rails, drink less and focus more on my professional duties (ie grow up!)

I don't remember that.

[Tourist]

Pontious

This idea of "public" keeps coming up.

Please define for me what you think "public" means.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tourist, in that context, where others could observe the activity simply by being in a place rather than their having to actively seek out the activity.

In a park accessible by members of the public or in the middle of a marquee where many people happened to be. Both places may be considered public.

Sorry if my explanation is a bit clumsy but I hope my meaning is resaonably clear.

[skua]

Trimstab

Couldn't agree with you more. Would just add that, longer term, the monarchy/Family/"Firm" cannot afford publicity which materially erodes the support of their people. Personally, this story does not erode my support one jot.

[goudie]

I hope, that when his CO gives him a good ticking off, he also mentions that his prowess at playing billiards is absolutely abysmal, and if he'd been a half-way decent player, as befits an officer and gentleman, then maybe none of this would have happened.
With regards to 'public opinion' I would venture a guess that the incident has long been forgotten.

[TT2]

Billiards Old Boy? Thought that was invented on the old Indian frontiers by some young, totally bored Army officers with access to far too much cheap grog and peronalities that wouldn't get them a sniff of a barmaid's apron unless they were very wealthy or their Mater had lots of loot?.

Shum' co-incedence perhaps? Mind you, history didn't seem to be his strong point at school.

[course_profile]

Blaireau-

I think what you've said is interesting. What do you define as a sensitive soul?

[randyrippley]

is strip billiards the version you play without any pockets?

[The Helpful Stacker]

is strip billiards the version you play without any pockets?

Possibly, depends on the individual participants anatomy.

I do know it doesn't usually feature having to take a shot on a tight brown or an easy pink....

[beerdrinker]

Beagle,

I note you have been on Pprune (Sharkey's Blog thread) since I posted my question about your behavior down route, but you have not replied, so I request that you do reply.

Thank you,

BD

[Pontius Navigator]

Ditto Tourist,

Was my definition of Public adequate?

[Tourist]

My apologies Pontious.

Yes, more than adequate, and it coincides very closely with my understanding of the term "public", though a military marquee could go either way depending on whether there are civilian guests.

Rather different from a hotel room, i agree.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tourist, does the Very Reverend Oliver Twistleton-Wycombe-Fiennes count?

As for 'not in public', there was a number of JOs gathered loosely near a settee in the corner. A not so SO went to have a look at what was going on and started to peer over the back of the settee. One of the oh so JO grabbed him, pulled him back, and told him to wait his turn.

Tact!

[Milo Minderbinder]

the Daily Fail has some interesting photos online today

Prince Harry Facebook group strips in support of party-loving royal in naked Vegas photos furore | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194521/Prince-Harry-Facebook-group-strips-support-party-loving-royal-naked-Vegas-photos-furore.html?ICO=most_read_module)

[NutLoose]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/28/article-2194521-14B8E685000005DC-658_470x618.jpg

That's distressing, her flag is upside down.

[500N]

"That's distressing, her flag is upside down."

Then if she is in distress, the flag is being displayed the correct way !!!

.

[Pontius Navigator]

Huummph, saluting while improperly dressed, whatever next, we don't want our troops looking like Americans . . .

saluting without headgear

[Willard Whyte]

the Daily Fail has some interesting photos online today]As does the Daily T. (And the N.Y. Times, The Hindustan Times, The Mirror, etc. etc.)

Does it really matter which journal these are in?

Army anger as troops strip naked in support of Prince Harry - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/9505169/Army-anger-as-troops-strip-naked-in-support-of-Prince-Harry.html)

Hopefully should induce a few heart attacks in the top brass.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02322/naked-salute-5_2322257c.jpg

Interesting use of the stable belt, and she's wearing a hat!

[bingofuel]

Could be the makings of a great calendar with proceeds going to Military charities.

[Pontius Navigator]

And the last wg cdr that did that one had a career that came to a shuddering stop and the word from on high - no more.

That's the trouble. Morale and their Generalships don't mix. Look at Armadillo; only the red tops stopped SecDef and the brass making fools of themselves.

[Courtney Mil]

Beagle,

I note you have been on PPRuNe (Sharkey's Blog thread) since I posted my question about your behavior down route, but you have not replied, so I request that you do reply.

I can't believe you haven't replied, Beags. So rude!

[Shack37]

That's distressing, her flag is upside down.


Maybe because it's hiding her Brazilian.

[Pontius Navigator]

I think it be more than she that be hiding a brazillian :)

[Wrathmonk]

I can't believe you haven't replied, Beags. So rude!

Too busy polishing his Weber :E

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Too busy polishing his Weber :E

Considering his out of touch ramblings maybe that should read 'Too busy polishing his Webley' :ok:

[Courtney Mil]

I guess you can safely assume there is simply no case to answer.

[MAINJAFAD]

And the last wg cdr that did that one had a career that came to a shuddering stop and the word from on high - no more.

Wouldn't happen to be an infamous flight safety calendar by any chance, Pontius????

[teeteringhead]

Too busy polishing his Weber is this perhaps a new euphemism for the "solitary vice"?? ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Main, could be :). Do you remember the one AIDU put out as well? Another wg cdr fearful for his career, or more likely pension.

There was an immediate recall but IIRC, not many came back and none from our green and dark blue friends.:)

[MAINJAFAD]

Pontius

Never saw either of them and only heard the story about the flight safety one years after the event.

[onetrack]

There's only a couple of posters in this thread who have touched on the one person in this story who has a total lack of morals - the person who took, and then sold, the photos - to an organisation that repeatedly dredges the very lowest levels of human ethics and morals - the Media.

Harry is in need of pulling aside and given a robust bollocking about his poor understanding of the word - and the complete need for - discretion, when he unwinds - as we all do - because we're all human.
He needs to practise extreme discretion purely because of his position in the worlds most-intensely-scrutinised, First Family. I doubt that I would have the intestinal fortitude to cope with the pressures on his privacy, that Harry has to endure.
The man has a normal, red-blooded male need, to blow off some steam. He's still only 27 and still single - and 27 yr old men need regular relief from the intense pressure of public life - preferably with naked wimmen.

I sense that BEagle comes from a strict Puritanical upbringing, and suffers from the Puritans driving belief - that at all times, someone, somewhere, is having fun - and they have to be found and stopped. :suspect:

[The Old Fat One]

There's only a couple of posters in this thread who have touched on the one person in this story who has a total lack of morals - the person who took, and then sold, the photos - to an organisation that repeatedly dredges the very lowest levels of human ethics and morals - the Media.


Little OTT and somewhat vague. In this instance the British press come out of it rather well, since the photos were available on the interweb across the globe before they got round to publishing them.

I happen to believe in the proposition that you get the politicians you vote for and newspapers you buy.

Really no need to buy newspapers anymore, so if you don't like them, don't read them. The interweb is global (almost) and free (almost) and an infinitely better source of information.

PS I did have a pop at the photographer...in the first post.

[Wwyvern]

Has Prince Harry flown the Apache as PIC (is that a Service description? - I mean as captain of the aircraft)?

Does anyone know when Prince Harry last flew a helicopter solo or even dual?

[The Cryptkeeper]

What an utterly bone question! He is a current Apache pilot and as such he must remain fully competent in all aspects of flying as per the JHC FOB . He is not an Aircraft Commander so the only time he will have Captaincy hours is when he has flown mutual during CTR.

As I stated in my previous post - what the vast majority of posters on this forum fail to grasp is that he must continue to maintain currency/competency/carry out PDT etc etc and still carry out all the other duties required of him during what has been a very busy summer.

Unless of course you're suggesting that the rules don't apply to him - and if that's what you think then you're pretty naive as to what it takes to fly the AH in theatre which is where he will very soon end up.

[Bastardeux]

BREAKING NEWS;

It's been suggested that HRH Prince Henry of Wales isn't a virgin and that on very rare occasions, he enjoys the private company of naked women...everybody go wild.

There's been some talk of what people would say if they were his squadron cmdr...I would have two words for him: "teach me"

[Milo Minderbinder]

now the girls there are jumping on the bandwagon
http://www.mtv.co.uk/news/prince-harry/362879-prince-harry-las-vegas-party-girl-drunken-fumble?s_cid=672

[Wwyvern]

The Cryptkeeper - Check PMs

[Courtney Mil]

Why? It's all sensationalism. Unconfirmed sources. People making up stories for newspaper that pay money and offer 'ladies' their moment of fame.

Journalistic filth. Why give it web space?

[The Old Fat One]

I'm no fan of the press and I don't buy newspapers any more. I have no axe to grind with the young royal, although I think he may have caused some problems with enforcing standards down the line. And I think who bubbled the photos is a scum bag....

But...

I am a little confused over the heat the media is getting over this one.

Why? It's all sensationalism. Unconfirmed sources. People making up stories for newspaper that pay money and offer 'ladies' their moment of fame.


errm...The article I just clicked on was pretty much non-judgemental and one hundred per cent in line with the photographs...or are these photos fake?

The debate on privacy is a busted flush...two hundred and forty million Americans were discussing this on national TV whilst we were still asleep.

And anything that has passed my eyeballs on the subject since, seems to be pretty much in line with with a straightfoward rendition of the events of the evening, as evidenced in the photos and implied by the army.

So, in this instance, what has the "media" got wrong? Buggered if I can see it (no pun intended).

[NutLoose]

Sex sells papers pure and simple and the more famous the victim ( and that is what he is) the greater the rewards..

[The Old Fat One]

Now you are just being daft...

In what universe is he a victim of anything?

[ORAC]

Grauniad: Prince Harry sent back to Afghanistan as Apache helicopter pilot (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/07/prince-harry-afghanistan-apache-helicopter?newsfeed=true)

Captain Wales begins four-month tour of duty with British army in command of Apache helicopter based at Camp Bastion

Prince Harry has flown into Afghanistan to begin a four-month tour of duty with the British army, during which he will command one of the UK's Apache attack helicopters.

The prince, who is known as Captain Wales within the armed forces, flew into the conflict zone from RAF Brize Norton along with hundreds of other military personnel as part of the regular rotation of forces..........