Who is reading this Forum ?

[Big Pistons Forever]

As some of the readers of this forum may have seen, jabowacky and I had as the Beeb says, a "frank and honest exchange of views, but were unable to reconcile our opposing positions". ;)

However one comment he made me got me thinking. He implied my postings only had relevance to pilots of simple low powered aircraft and that by not discussing advanced techniques, operating LOP, in that case, I was dumbing down the forum.

His observation is valid as I often comment on thread topics by refocussing the discussion back to fundemental flying principals and almost invariably direct any advice specifically at student pilots and low time PPL's.

As a fairly regular poster it seems pointless to comment from a point of view that is not relevant or interesting to the majority of the forum readers

So my question is what do readers want ?

1) Advice primarily aimed at low time pilots

2) Advice and discussion about advanced flying topics

3) Neither, Both ?

4) Something else ?

[Genghis the Engineer]

All of the above - basically if it's about flying machines, I'm usually interested.

G

[Steve6443]

personally speaking, I'm interested in the GA end of things and although I reckon I'll never progress beyond single mots, if it's about flying, I'll read it. If, however, I think the topic is beyond me or not relative - for example jets - I can easily skip it so just because it's not relevant to me at this moment in time, doesn't mean it's not interesting for others - or for me at a later date...

[Pilot DAR]

Perhaps, Big Pistons, a review of this http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/465172-what-have-you-flown.html thread would be a starting point, though I do see where you are pointing with your question - I've had the same thoughts...

[Ds3]

Personally I'm interested in 1) as, unsuprisingly, I am a low time PPL.

But I don't expect the topics to be restricted to those I am personally interested in - it's a forum, I'll read those threads that look of interest to me, and pass over those that don't.

Although that said, this particular sub-forum is entitled 'private flying' and therefore I would expect the majority of topics within to be in relation to GA.

[TomNH]

My interests are in learning more (anything more) about flying and planes. Whilst I'm a student PPL I'd like to extend my knowledge as far and wide as possible. Breaking things back down to the fundamentals suits my style of learning.

Sadly the threads I get the most from are the one's to which I can add little. What I value is access to the discussion between people with a huge range of experience.

[maxred]

The two words, General Aviation, encompass everything from a paraglider to a Boeing BBJ. It is a large spread. I would not get too hung up on the recent spat. I enjoy looking at what is relevent to me, if it is not, I will pass. For what it is worth I look for your posts, and try to gleen some advice. Sometimes it gets a bit to involved in ' look at me, I know an awful lot' but that is easily dismissed. The forum that is.

Keep going the way you are.

[stevelup]

So my question is what do readers want ?

1) Advice primarily aimed at low time pilots

Yep - if appropriate to the discussion at hand ...

2) Advice and discussion about advanced flying topics

Yep - if appropriate to the discussion at hand :)

I don't see why it has to be one, the other or indeed both - it just needs to be whatever makes the most sense at any given time.

There's simply no need to start worrying about your 'audience' and aiming your replies at a certain segment of people.

To be honest, I thought that Jabawocky was quite trollsome in that thread and seemed to be looking for a scrap... Maybe he'll go back under his DG&P bridge if you don't feed him!

[rats404]

I'm a relatively low houred PPL with an IMC rating, but I've been obsessed with aviation since I was a wee lad. I bought "The design of the aeroplane" before I took my first lesson. I'm reading ATPL ground school books for fun on my daily commute*. It's impossible to pigeon hole people.

So don't for pete's sake worry what you post. I lap it all up. And as others have said, if something doesn't interest me, nobody is forcing me to read it.

*(Yes, my wife does despair...)

[Pace]

BPF

You and others here bring a wealth of knowledge and experience. My part?
I like discussions to be challenging and do not mind theads going in directions they were not intended :E

But we get there in the end ;) and your contributions are invaluable and appreciated by all including me.

Pace

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

So my question is what do readers want ?

1) Advice primarily aimed at low time pilots

2) Advice and discussion about advanced flying topics

3) Neither, Both ?

4) Something else ?

Personally, I don't look on this forum for advice. That's largely what club/ticket signing instructors are for. What I do look for is news, other people's experiences, thoughts, ideas and opinions. We can all learn and it doesn't really matter what the AUW of the teaching apparatus is. Now and again, our own experience and knowledge may add to the benefit of the discussion.

[Pilot DAR]

In economies, we have markets, black markets, and grey markets. Similarly here. I would expect that most participants here can safely distinguish the market and black market of information being offered. It's the grey market information here which worries me.

Grey market information being that which though not wrong, if undertaken by an untrained pilot could be unsafe, or damaging, or otherwise results in an aircraft being operated very close to, or beyond its approved limitations. Some readers here might have difficulty distinguishing that information. Worse, it's usually that information which has that extra spark of interest.

Believe me, there are a lot of stupid things I have done in aircraft, and some more than once, which I would never mention here, for fear another reader, without the wisdom to realize how foolish it was, might attempt it. There are other things I do now with care, which are planned to go beyond limits, which I do discuss, but with the warning that these are planned flight tests, not routine flying.

Even things which may be within limits, but are pointing you toward being out - like simple aerobatics in a non aerobatic aircraft - are better not suggested as plausible, lest they tempt the untrained into attempting them. Grey market information.

Generally posters do very well in my estimation, in not presenting bad ideas as being good ones. But pilots must always remember that certified aircraft come with firm limitations, and a number of recommendations, which if followed, will ensure the safe flying experience we all want to have. Very few pilots on this forum are qualified to go poking beyond these limitations. Probably best kept that way....

[Duckeggblue]

For me, I don't think you have to agree with a post to learn something from it. So I hope you would say what you think.
You will never know how many people benefit because for the most part, those who disagree seem to be much more motivated to post than those who agree ;)

I don't think you should try to filter what you say according to what you think people want to hear (apart from personal attacks obviously) The filter should reside in the reader. It is not compulsory to read anything you are not interested in.

[XLC]

for me 3) both

[sevenstrokeroll]

FLYING IS FLYING.

how can it possibly matter what kind of plane you fly?

[piperboy84]

It’s a consumers market, if the info, tips and advice on this forum are beneath your level, move on to another topic or string that meets your needs, if however it applies to you then I hope you get as much out of this forum as I do. I am a low time VFR pilot with about 500 hours flying all different types of singles in a wide variety of locations and conditions and I can tell you I get a helluva lot of excellent advice and tips and food for thought that has no doubt made me a safer, more competent pilot, in addition to sparking my interest in topics that makes me go to other sources for clarification and learning.

Separating the wheat from the chaff is pretty easy .

BPF, not to blow smoke up your ass but your opinions and observations have been of immense value to me, so keep doing what you’re doing.

[LH-OAB]

Who's reading? Well, I was a PPL recreational flyer, I'm an ex-Instructor and now an airline turboprop pilot. I like to keep in touch with recreational GA in the hope of returning to that world at some point. I expect comments on this forum to be aimed at "Private Flying" at all levels from student to experienced but I imagine that the majority who take advice from this forum are the less experienced. I hope that they can "separate the wheat from the chaff" because I despair of the posters I know in real life who claim on PPRuNe to have vast experience and to have flown every type under the sun when the reality is less impressive.

[piperboy84]

I hope that they can "separate the wheat from the chaff" because I despair of the posters I know in real life who claim on PPRuNe to have vast experience and to have flown every type under the sun when the reality is less impressive

Point taken, but the chancers normally get shot down pretty quick with replies from folks that do know what they are talking about.

[Pace]

Pilot Dar

There are student pilot forums and instructor forums this is a private pilots forum so should cater for a broad church of experience and types of private flying.

Things change very slowly in aviation and because it has always been done that way so always should be done that way is questionable?

To practice spins or not was one subject which was worthy of discussion?
Use of the chute in forced landings in a Cirrus was another? This went against conventional thinking was not approved by the manufacturer but could have merit so warranted discussion.

If a student asks a question and questionable advice is given there are plenty of qualified instructors in the forum to pounce on that advice and explain why it should not be used.

Censorship stifles freedom of speech and as long as people are respectful to each other what is said should not be stifled only corrected?

This smacks of the 9 o clock watershed for fear that children maybe watching and you have to be careful of what you say :=

being an anonymous forum means it should carry a health warning as there are many posters who we do not know about or their true qualifications in expressing those opinions but they are opinions and should not be treated as fact!

Pace

[India Four Two]

BPF,

Keep going exactly as you have been. I always read your posts with interest and often learn something new

[dublinpilot]

I missed the recent spat. Presumably on a topic that wasn't of interest to me.

As for what people should post the only things I would say is that they should only profess knowledge on a subject that they know and understand and they should always be polite.

For what it's worth I've always found your posts to be both ;)

[24Carrot]

Big Pistons, I don't think you need worry so much about what your audience wants to hear. If you are happy posting about something, I expect a large percentage of Private Flying pruners will find it interesting. I usually do! And the rest don't have to read it.

Personally, I think the forum would be a lot poorer without the likes of you, Pilot DAR and Mad Jock. The recently resurrected windmilling prop thread is a perfect example.

[The500man]

BPF,

you're fine dumbing down to basic principles here, if nothing else it makes your posts accessible to more readers and you've probably noticed that anything beyond a basic question more often than not goes unanswered on Pprune anyway (not including Jaba's questions because there were a few things wrong with them, and his approach of "I know best because I've been on a course but I can't tell you why" was never going to go down well!) so advanced topics are generally beyond this sub-forum but there are other more specialised forums for that kind of stuff.

Grey market information being that which though not wrong, if undertaken by an untrained pilot could be unsafe, or damaging, or otherwise results in an aircraft being operated very close to, or beyond its approved limitations. Some readers here might have difficulty distinguishing that information. Worse, it's usually that information which has that extra spark of interest.

Believe me, there are a lot of stupid things I have done in aircraft, and some more than once, which I would never mention here, for fear another reader, without the wisdom to realize how foolish it was, might attempt it. There are other things I do now with care, which are planned to go beyond limits, which I do discuss, but with the warning that these are planned flight tests, not routine flying.

Pilot DAR, looking out for the other guy is nice but why is it up to you to police other peoples thoughts? For me that's the same way of thinking that leads to statements such as children that play violent video games become violent. As if they had no access to violence from other sources. Readers without wisdom will probably find ways to hurt themselves or break something so I don't think you need to hide anything to try and protect them because as it turns out monkey will do by itself without seeing (reading) first. :)

[Pilot DAR]

Oh I don't think to police thoughts! If anything, I want to encourage them - but in a direction we all would be proud of. I have had many experiences which I survived, but probably should not have. I will not make suggestions that certain things can be done in aircraft, when I know that they should not be attempted. If I remain silent, that's not policing thoughts, its just keeping it to myself.

On the less safety, but more wear and tear side of things, I hope to set a good example for rental pilots, and new owners, that some things done to aircraft could verge on abusive, so why not treat the aircraft as though you'd like it to last. Someone's (ultimately the user) paying to maintain it, keep those costs down!

I suppose it is a bit of policing when I nay say another poster's idea, but if it is policing, it's toothless! People can assign whatever credibility to my caution, that they assign to me!

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

The forum already has official moderators.

Unfortunately, too many others think they should, or are entitled to, do the job for them.

My thoughts are "Post what you want to discuss (within the forum rules and decency) and let the moderators deal with any unsuitable posts".

Sod the rest. :E

[peterh337]

All I ask for is that people put the apostrophe (http://walkinthewords.********.co.uk/2009/05/grocers-apostrophe.html) in the right place, and start a sentence with an uppercase letter :ugh: :E

Seriously though, if I wrote a question somewhere and could not be bothered to even start with an uppercase letter, I would not expect anybody to bother to type up a useful reply.

[riverrock83]

As a student pilot I lap up the discussions on here, but I know, as every student should, that nothing on here should be taken as gospel, and if going to do something different then it should be discussed with my instructor. Therefore no need for censorship of content!

I quite like the "advanced" topics as well as the basic, because it gets my brain in gear - stopping me becoming an automaton. If I understand something I'm more likely to remember it. It also reminds me that there is more to flying than just getting from A to B, pressing the buttons that I've been taught to press (as it were).

Hopefully contributions I make are sensible and further a discussion without me pretending that I'm something / someone that I'm not.

Keep it going!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I bought "The design of the aeroplane" before I took my first lesson.
Yes, me too, I also wanted something more informative than the dumbed-down parrot-style learning in the "how to pass the exams" books.

[funfly]

I read it. I have flown microlights and classA aircraft owned three, last one VP prop and injected engine.
Now I don't fly, can't afford it and lost confidence after my aircraft was written off just after I sold it.
PPRune forums keep me in contact with the world of aviation.
The less I fly, the older I get and the more I sit here, the more expert and skilled I become in flying, s'funny innit :D

[peterh337]

It is sad to hear you lost confidence because somebody else pranged your plane after you sold it.

[rapidshot]

I mostly read Genghis, Big Pistons and Pilot Dar with great interest,

I wish Rod Machado was here too

Vfr from Turkey

[stickandrudderman]

BPF. This is the first post of yours I've read that I didn't find interesting!
This is an anonymous forum. Why on earth would you be worried about what others think?

[Rod1]

This is a forum for light chat and rumors – chill out!

Rod1

[Obi_Wan]

BPF,

The fact that you've stopped to ask the question shows the level of passion and interest you have in all things flying makes your contributions worthwhile to everyone.

As previously suggested, keep it coming :ok:

Obi Wan

[3 Point]

Hey BPF, keep on posting just as you always have; I find your stuff most interesting.

BTW, I'm an ex military jet pilot, Airline captain, Corporate Captain, Light aircraft instructor running a flying school, old aeroplane enthusiast and airshow pilot. Very interested in operating techniques for piston engines (big ones in particular).

Happy landings

3 Point

[Big Pistons Forever]

OK guys thanks for the sanity check I will continue posting like I always have.

I see a new 3 point vs wheelie thread has started, that should provide high entertainment value :E

[Sir Niall Dementia]

BPF;

This particular forum covers a huge range of experience, from people struggling to get to first solo, right through to retired operators of some serious kit, but it is about private flying. I'm lucky (very) I get to play with a very nice big private jet, some really nice helicopters for work and my own personal toy which is built of wood and fabric and is kind of short of technology in my spare time. I've had a license since I was seventeen, I'm fifty now and I still prefer the time I get to spend with people who are in love with aviation, rather than those who were in love with it, now tolerate it and just love the pay check.

I share an office (and sometimes a cockpit) with two other Pruners who think like me, and our talk over coffee tends to be of new private strips, permit renewals and weekends away together with our loved ones (aeroplanes) and wives if they decide to come too.

Keep up with the posts, aviation is a very difficult mistress, I often wonder how many people get a license and then stop, here is a place where we can encourage grass roots aviation, lets face it a kid flying with his grandad might aspire to spend his life flying, thats what happened to me, and I will be forever grateful to all the people I met at that time who encouraged me, from low time PPL's right up to a 707 training captain who wangled sim time and jump seat time for me.

Personally I always read what you, pace and a few others write, because I always enjoy those posts. If I want serious pro stuff I go to R&N, Rotorheads and the biz jet forum.

SND

[vee-tail-1]

Some posters on this forum write not only of aviation but include valuable bits of their life experience as well. Its one of the great reasons to come here.
Please keep it going people ... :ok::)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

include valuable bits of their life experience as well
PINK HEADSETS ...

[funfly]

A few years ago I was a (male) member of the women's flying association and was privileged to attend where many of the ladies who flew in WW2 were in attendance. I know that most of these ladies were 'well heeled' but the flying that they did puts all of our experiences into perspective. Amazing to realise that when the war ended the RAF would not give any of these ladies ranks in their service although the men were given flying officer status automatically.

Loosing confidence following the elimination of my aircraft in a crash after I sold it might seem funny but, as a permit aircraft, I spent many hours and many pounds on this mistress and knew every inch of her, every wire behind the instruments and every bolt on the engine. Not perhaps the easiest aircraft to fly I suppose I realise that it might have been me:) It didn't totally stop me flying, the final straw came from the Royal Bank of Scotland.

[Crash one]

BPF Dar MJ & all, Keep it coming just the way it it is. The more technical stuff exercises the brain.