Cranwell aircraft down

[Winco]

Just heard on the radio that an aircraft from cranwell has come down close to Grantham (I think that's what it said)
2 POB both OK according to reports, hope thats the case

Winco

[lj101]

BREAKING NEWS: Plane from RAF Cranwell crash lands near Ancaster - Local - Grantham Journal (http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/local/breaking-news-plane-from-raf-cranwell-crash-lands-near-ancaster-1-4194426)


Latest

[Duckeggblue]

Grantham Journal has it as a Tutor and a witness describing the aircraft as a " little white grub" ........ and the scene as " quite peaeceful" ....... :oh:

[EyesFront]

Love the report - this made me chuckle:

"A witness, Mansell Beard of Willoughby Heath, Ancaster, contacted the Journal and described the plane as a “little white grub”.
Fire crews were called to the scene, which Mr Beard described as “quite peaceful”

Alls well that ends well

[Tankertrashnav]

describing the aircraft as a " little white grub" ..


Better than 'a grubby little Tutor' I suppose ;)

[SOSL]

Byards Leap is actually just outside the perimeter of the "south airfield" at Cranditz. Maybe a problem on takeoff - hope the crew's OK.

Rgds SOS

[dixb]

Grounded again :*

[Hummingfrog]

Dixb

Grounded again

Is that a fact or just your assumption?

HF

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Hummingfrog,

In the current climate, I'd be most surprised if the flying was not suspended; at least until the root cause of the accident is determined. Afterall, stopping Tutor flying (for a short time) will have limited (if any) operational impact. I suspect that the boys and girls flying Tutors will have an early (and extended?) Bank Holiday.

Duncs:ok:

[Hummingfrog]

So not officially grounded at the moment. Lets hope they find the cause ASAP. Must have given the pilot(s) a bit of a shock:eek:.

HF

[Al-Berr]

If it happened before 9am or after 3pm or during the lunch 'hour' then it wasn't CFS........

[oldmansquipper]

Great that it avoided the school, the bicycling nuns and the cats home...shame no one saw the ball of flames nor heard the massive explosion "like a bomb going off"

Ho Hum - Nonetheless there will be calls from Joe Public to stop this military low flying to prevent pregnant cows going into early labour, no doubt.....

:O

[Roadster280]

Schools? In that part of Lincolnshire? Well, Lincolnshire at large, really.

[Pontius Navigator]

Roadster, Grammar Schools actually.

[Avtur]

... and very good ones

[Roadster280]

I'm jesting of course, my parents live in Ruskington, pretty close to Cranditz.

[Grobling About]

Aircraft parked neatly in the field off the end of 27. Funny how it just missed that tent

[Could be the last?]

It is a bit excessive for the planned PCIMO EX.................:E

[DavidWoodward]

Great that it avoided the school, the bicycling nuns and the cats home...shame no one saw the ball of flames nor heard the massive explosion "like a bomb going off"

Ho Hum - Nonetheless there will be calls from Joe Public to stop this military low flying to prevent pregnant cows going into early labour, no dobt.....

:O

Since you brought it up, do you remember the woman in Scotland who blamed the RAF for her pregnancy as she said the low flying jets had interrupted her menstrual cycle and she was using using that as contraception? Some people need putting down.

[Gemini Twin]

I think he meant "little white GROB"

[NutLoose]

Glad all are ok.

[Flying_Anorak]

Other sources suggest the little 'grub' lost a prop blade and made a forced landing without drama, after narrowly missing the school and nuclear power station etc of course!

:)

[oldmansquipper]

There is one big school, it`s between the North & South airfields - "Sleaford Tec" of course! (or is it called Sleaford Community College these days)

;)

[Pure Pursuit]

Hope it wasn't a chop ride!

"Did I DCO sir..?"

[dixb]

Dixb

Quote:
Grounded again
Is that a fact or just your assumption?

HF

Fact - as of 10am yesterday.

[Hummingfrog]

Hi Dixb

Thanks for that - hope they sort it out soon as due to fly soon. At this rate we will all be out of currency:(!!

HF

[622]

...You mean like the Greeks!!....I'll get my coat ;)

[Lima Juliet]

The rumour I'm hearing is that it's another occurence of this...

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/dft_avsafety_pdf_030406.pdf

...should have bought the T67!!!

[Farfrompuken]

...should have bought the T67!!!

They did. Then sold them all to go buy the Tragic Tutor!

[Cows getting bigger]

Leon, would that be the Firefly which uses an extremely similar Lycoming/Hoffman combination to the Tutor? :eek:

[Farfrompuken]

The firefly which had a bigger engine and a different prop.

[Lima Juliet]

Cows get bigger

No that would be the T67 with nearly 60% more horsepower and a better prop to handle the torque. In fact it was a better aircraft all around, but someone in the procurement cycle was allegedly bought off by Herr Grob along the way :sad:

Better still was the delightful Bulldog, shame it was overengineered and overpriced as Beagle (not the Pruner) and Scottish Aviation had a real winner on its hands.

LJ

[A and C]

If this is another problem with the prop and at the moment it is a BIG IF then it should not be too hard to change the prop.

A number of manufacturers have props that are fitted to this engine who would jump at the chance of an order for 120 units plus a few spare.

Add the maintenance contract for prop overhaul and I am sure the package would be big enough to get the manufacture to get the certification done for next to zero cost.

The likelihood is that with the advances in blade technology the aircraft performance would also be increased.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Would that be the Firefly that the US got rid of because of spinning incidents?

Duncs:ok:

[NutLoose]

Not just got rid of but physically crushed complete with the engines and avionics still in them.

http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/military/2006/t-3a-firefly-scrap-0609-1a.jpg

Hondo Aircraft Destroyed (http://www.berkut13.com/HondoT3s.htm)

All of RAF fireflies came through us for acceptance, as well as the replacemt trials including the Grob, we were suprised it was the winner.

[Lima Juliet]

For some reason the yankee T67 had a smaller rudder than ours (t67m260) - never came out in the subsequent investigations though. So hardly surprising that they had some spin recovery problems! :ugh:

[Lima Juliet]

Here's a T-3A

http://tomschrimp.com/b2evolution/media/T3Firefly.jpg

And here's a T67

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Firefly-g-bwyh.jpg/300px-Firefly-g-bwyh.jpg

Look at the size and shape (at the bottom) between the rudders - quite a difference.

LJ

[Stratofreighter]

Photos made a day after the incident are now at
Incident at Cranwell earlier? • FighterControl • Military Aviation Forum (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=412143&sid=a9a38ffb1e585bdaf5e7ebfe092227bc#p412143) .

Also:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8296/7858602572_95cccba878_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8424/7858601026_ff77f7c545_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8303/7858600184_1e4e80cd10_b.jpg

[NutLoose]

Looks a good result, there was a aircraft shed a blade a while back at Tollerton while doing circuit and bumps, as he touched down opened the throttle a blade departed, the engine controls he was holding ripped themselves out through the firewall as the engine tried to depart the aircraft.

[Farfrompuken]

LJ

The difference in engine output between the -A and -M would necessitate the difference in rudder you note above.

ISTR the USAF losses were entirely due to the way they handled the aircraft, rather than any specific design/build issue.

T67M way superior to the Grob but that's all history anyhow.

[Lima Juliet]

What he said ^^^^

The T67a originally had an O-235 (115hp) engine that was upgraded to an O-320 (160hp) in the T67b. The T-3a and the T67M260 had an IO-540 (260hp) engine. Why the T-3a had the same smaller rudder fitted to it that the earlier smaller-engine birds had, I have no idea - but I do know that if I was spinning and aerobating in the US where it is often 'hot and high' I would want all the rudder I could get in the breeze!!! :ok:

LJ

[Farfrompuken]

Fair point, however I understand the losses were as a result of handling rather than airframe issues.

[Hummingfrog]

I am out in the sticks and out of touch - are the Tutors still grounded?

HF

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

HF,

There has been a temporary pause in Tutor flying until AAIB, Babcock and Hoffman can determine the cause of the prop failure - and, of course, any remedial action required.

Duncs:ok:

[betty swallox]

Congrats on your 600th post...!

[Hummingfrog]

Thanks Duncan - hope it is resolved soon.

HF

[Sook]

Any news on the grounding? We're supposed to be taking some cadets to AEF on Saturday but we have yet to hear anything through the Chain of Command.

[Courtney Mil]

...and you really think you're going to find the truth here? I hope you'll be telling us the good news when it comes.

[45-25-25]

Sook

What Wing are you and which AEF? No 5 AEF has passed information to all its wings by phone.

Bear in mind that most Wings are having to operate with reduced staff and are struggling to cope (and they only had 2 &1/2 in the first place) because of the Government enforced reduction in Civil Servants.

45-25-25

[Sook]

We are with 5 AEF, so I guess the email has got lost in the ether! I will enquire with the appropriate people.

[GolfSierra]

Message on Bader says no resumption likely until 10 Sept. If you can log in to Bader, see link (https://news.bader.mod.uk/Lists/ACO%20Announcements/Current%20Items.aspx) for a little more info.

[just another jocky]

Grounded until at least next week. Don't use that as a timescale though, it's just they can't say exactly how long.

[Hummingfrog]

Any news yet? Have they found the bits so a cause can be established?

HF

[GolfSierra]

From the ATC internal SharePoint site "Bader":

Best estimate is as follows:
Small number of ac will return to flying during first week Oct. Priority will be resuming EFT ops. Potential to return to normal AEF ops by the end of Oct if no delays to recovery process.

[Could be the last?]

So they didn't find the bits that fell off................?

[Gene Genie]

Could be the last

Apparently not, cause not definitely known. Some possible clutching at straws going on?

I believe that some company pilots are flying, but the time frame mentioned a few posts ago sounds about right.

Regards
Gene

[Mandator]

Has the "little white Grub" fleet got going again yet?

I read elsewhere that the Vigilant fleet (Grob 109) is also now grounded due to an AD on an elevator control rod, issued by EASA.

[just another jocky]

Been flying a few weeks now. :ok:

[noprobs]

The aircraft captain has been awarded a well-deserved Green Endorsement to his log book for his handling of the incident. :ok: