EK SFI as line F/O (any fleet)

[Will Rogers]

Hey,

What are your thoughts on joining the training department as an SFI while an active line F/O with EK? I'm curious about all the fleets but mostly the A380 fleet. I know a few guys have done it in the past and recently... good choice or not such a good choice?

Please no bashing or degrading comments but constructive and helpful thoughts, comments and/or concerns that we can all possibly benefit from. :ok:

Thanks!

Will :)

[de facto]

Go for it,great choice BUT on the type you operate.
You will learn a lot in the back seat by watching others work and interreact and when you upgrade,your TRI ticket will be ever so closer.

[Will Rogers]

Thanks for the input de facto, much appreciated!

No other thoughts out there?

Will

[skyvan]

Make sure you have the right hours for your upgrade before you start. A few guys were disadvantaged when the numbers changed as the company only allows 500hours of SFI time to count towards your time to upgrade.

If theabove is not a problem, it is an wonderful way to learn about the aircraft and the company's way of thinking, and will stand you in good stead not only for your own upgrade, but also for dealing with events on the line.

[glofish]

and when you upgrade,your TRI ticket will be ever so closer.

Oh no, please not one more "from rookie to coach in 9 months" rocket scientist.

Your idea is great, you will bring in experience to the SFI seat, and your candidates, especially FOs, will appreciate such experience.

But stay away from the other advice, please!
Once on the left seat a reasonable pilot should allow some 3 years before he goes the TRI/E route. You need some experience to be able to teach something, at least to teach something other than the poorly written cr@p in our books ..... That I can read myself, but what I want from an instructor is more, way more than that!
No respect for the lack of it, that''s for sure.

[White Knight]

Oh no, please not one more "from rookie to coach in 9 months" rocket scientist.

Your idea is great, you will bring in experience to the SFI seat, and your candidates, especially FOs, will appreciate such experience.

But stay away from the other advice, please!
Once on the left seat a reasonable pilot should allow some 3 years before he goes the TRI/E route. You need some experience to be able to teach something, at least to teach something other than the poorly written cr@p in our books ..... That I can read myself, but what I want from an instructor is more, way more than that!
No respect for the lack of it, that''s for sure.

We don't often agree glosfish - but I'm with you 100% here!

[donpizmeov]

With you on that one as well glofish.

The don

[canadansk]

I also agree with Glofish! :ok:

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

You don't get the 500 hours anymore. You get zero credit towards your hourly upgrade by being an SFI.

[Kittty125]

My 2 fils:

Don't do it. You'll be in the left seat soon enough. Use the time now to watch all the good and bad guys already there. Go to all the nasty places in the middle of the night (not that you do many on the A380) and make sure you've covered as much of the network as you can. You'll learn a lot more from that for when you upgrade and you'll probably be thankful for it...

[ironbutt57]

Many airlines employ FO's as SFI....particularly if they have background in instruction, being an effective communicator is more useful than endless hours boring holes in the sky, while I'm not dismissing line and life experiences as a positive contribution, ability to instruct in any kind of aircraft is also highly important, and many airlines have discovered FO's keen to learn, and found many line capts can't be bothered...

[Al Murdoch]

Wise words ironbutt...
Personally alarm bells start ringing when I hear people saying they have nothing to learn from SFIs...

[fatbus]

And when people say dont do it without all the facts

[GoreTex]

it makes sense in Airlines where FO's wait 20 years for their upgrade and have lots of experience, in EK where FO's join without or little experience it just shows the desperation of the company

[Will Rogers]

Thanks everyone for the input! :ok:

GoreTex: If you don't mind me asking I'm curious how long, in your opinion, an F/O would need to be in the company to have enough experience to go for an SFI position? I ask as many of the F/O's at EK while (in some people's opinion) possibly short of EK specific experience bring loads of previous experience, many also from the left seat and/or other training roles.

Cheers,

Will

[Will Rogers]

Thanks OnceBitten :O

I think maybe I wasn't clear in my previous post.

I also know and believe that there are many VERY well qualified F/O's at EK. That's why I was asking when others may see that as true as well. I didn't understand the statement that "in EK where FO's join without or little experience" as most of us joined with a lot of hours on all sorts of aircraft types and operations. Thus I was curious when an F/O at EK would be considered "experienced" if you believe the above quote to be true...

Now, it's early in the morning for me so I may be a bit slow at the moment :zzz: but could you please elaborate on "jumping any queues"? I'm not aware of any queue jumping by becoming an SFI? Do you mean the TRI queue later on if one were to accept that? And for the record I also agree with Glofishs' post in regards to that transition as far as that some experience in the seat is required before taking on that role.

Thanks again! :O

[glofish]

If you don't mind me asking I'm curious how long, in your opinion, an F/O would need to be in the company to have enough experience to go for an SFI position

I know you asked Gore, but my 2fils:
For any higher job in any company I would suggest to wait 3 years. It's the time you need to have gone to most places and suffered from all offices to be able to transmit what any trainee, or i.e. FO, expects and is entitled to expect from a 'trainer'.

No matter how many hours you had, whereabout you came from, how much of an astronaut you consider yourself, every company and environment is different, special and needs adaptation.

[GoreTex]

if you have the requirements to become a captain plus some 2-3 years of EK experience in the left hand seat then you should become a trainer, most of our trainers dont qualify yet.

[glofish]

Definitely spot on!

[Will Rogers]

Thanks guys!

Glofish: I've never considered myself an astronaut :) and I agree with what you've said 100% (apart from the spot on ;)).

GoreTex: So if I understand you correctly then there should be no F/O's working as SFI's as none of us F/O's will have "2-3 years of EK experience in the left hand seat". I do agree that once you move on to the TRI side and fly the aircraft in training there is a great benefit in having operated in the left seat for a a couple of years before taking on that role. Having said that I don't agree that F/O's can't be SFI's.

Thanks again for the input though. Interesting to hear (or read) what people think :ok:

[de facto]

But stay away from the other advice, please!

When i say that his TRI ticket will be ever so closer after he upgrades,by no means did i say it should be granted automatically...
Obviously a TRI position will be given to captains with experience,but if the candidate has experience has a captain ( i agree minimum of 3-5 years) AND experience as an SFI,then he will be in a better position to get such promotion.

[GoreTex]

spot on will.

had an SFI who was absolutely useless, he resigned later because he didnt have enough hours to become a captain.

whats wrong with doing your time and wait like everybody else? its not only your career thats important when you are a trainer you should actually be able to give something to your trainees and make them better pilots.

again if you are in AA and been in the company for ages then I see no problem to become an SFI, if you join EK and become an SFI after such a short time I see a big problem, its cheap and thats why EK goes there not because the SFI's are so good.

[Easy Ryder]

I think ones ability to impart knowledge effectively is more important that which seat your in.

[clear to land]

Training is as much about the delivery as the level of knowledge. As has been mentioned by others, it does not matter which seat you sit in if you have a strong previous background-and have sat in BOTH seats in previous jobs. I have flown with some technically brilliant Captains AND F/O's who couldn't TEACH someone how to make a paper plane! If you can teach, and have the knowledge and background, then being an SFI is a sensible step-it never hurts to have an extra qualification in this line of work. However, if you elect to do it, and are selected, remember that in EK Upgrade requirements change like the wind-that is your gamble.