Frankfurt-Hahn

[Pilotinmydreams]

I've just been the victim of my own stupidity so thought i'd share. Booked flights with RyanAir from Stanstead to Frankfurt, not thinking for a minute that Frankfurt-Hahn is bloody miles away from Frankfurt! Only found out about it after listening on Radio 4 to the 'London-Southend' debate.

Fair enough, the fair was cheap but the hour and a half coach journey is a bit of a ball ache when I get to Germany. I understand that there is no train option to and from the city either. Can't wait to tell my boss - after we've taken off :sad:

[Shack37]

A brave confession of error not often seen here. I hope any subsequent posts from the FF contingent treat you gently.

[davidjohnson6]

Hahn really is in the middle of nowhere - when there just over a week ago, I could smell the countryside immediately upon walking down the aircraft steps. The bus from Hahn to Frankfurt train station takes 1h45 (yes, it is a bit of a drag) and sometimes has gaps of approx 2 hours between each bus.

You should also note that on buses from Hahn, occasionally demand for seats outstrips supply and those at the back of the queue may need to wait to catch the next bus

When travelling to/from Hahn, consider not only the direct bus to/from Frankfurt, but also the bus to Mainz (followed by a train from Mainz to Frankfurt) as a transport option. There are taxi drivers hovering outside the terminal, but a taxi between Hahn and Frankfurt city centre is likely to be expensive.

[Hotel Tango]

Travel Ryanair at your peril. Surprised that punters still get caught out by this.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Thanks for the advice David - may well look at getting the bus to the train and then on to the City.

I could of course opted for a flight with another carrier and would maybe not have fallen foul of this but there again, the overall fare, even with the baggage charge and all the other 'extras' is still a damn good deal. At the end of the day, as I see it, all I want to do is get there cheaply as it's just a short business hop. To be honest, i've never had an issue with Ryan air, provided you expect the fare to go up when you get to the checkout. It's still great value though and in the future i'll be more careful with my checking of the destination. My own fault really as I know all of this already!

[CelticRambler]

all I want to do is get there cheaply as it's just a short business hop

:eek: Heresy! Don't you know that short business hops are the rock upon which every legitimate airline's double-daily with top price tickets model is founded? Whatever the cost, your company has a moral duty to the aviation industry to avoid cheap fares and indirect itineraries! :}

[Hotel Tango]

I suppose it all depends how important your business and your time is. A day trip to Frankfurt courtesy of Cheapo Air via Hahn is going to cost you quite a bit of redundant time.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Ah - when I say short business hop, I meant distance wise, not time. I'm there for a week so the travelling from Hahn and back although a bit of an inconvenience is not going to ruin us.

Personally, when I go on holiday I do tend to pay a bit more for a better service and have no issue in doing that - you get what you pay for. I've had great experiences with BA and can't rate them highly enough. Also when we fly long haul for business then we don't necessarily go for the cheapest option - more the most convenient in terms of time, departure airport etc. I think the last long haul was Virgin and found the experience very pleasant indeed.

As i've said before though, i've also never really had an issue with Ryan Air, Easy Jet or Flybe, all of which I have used in the last 12 months. I'm sure with any airline you'll inevitably have issues, same as my customers no doubt sometimes have issues with my company but we can't all get it right all the time.

[DeeCee]

An alternative is London City to Frankfurt. I can't remember the price but it wasn't excessive.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Must admit I hadn't considered London City but having done a quick check on their site, the flight is close to double to price of the Ryan Air flight when all things considered (although it admittedly does go direct to Frankfurt rather than the middle of nowhere). As much as I want to support the aviation industry, I wouldn't be able to do it at the expense of my P&L

[edi_local]

There is a low cost hotel right outside the terminal at Hahn, should your travel plans involve a late night or early morning and the bus times aren't suitable. I used it just after it opened and it was perfectly fine for a night.

[rennaps]

Traveling Ryan air to Vienna in Austria, you end up in Bratislava in Slovakia. Then have to take an hour long bus ride to Vienna. Bratislava airport has cheaper landing fees than Vienna airport. I think Hahn is the same
That is why Ryan air does it

[JUAN TRIPP]

My other favourite about Ryanair is flying to copenhagen but you don't!!
Oh no, you go to Malmo instead in SWEDEN!!
Have no idea what the cost is of crossing the bridge but it can't be cheap

[marsie]

Don't Ryanair fall foul of visa regulations if they advertise a flight to one country and land in another? If I need and obtain a visa to enter Denmark and then take a Ryanair flight that I think goes to Copenhagen, how are the Swedish immigration authorities going to react when I turn up at Malmo?

[ExXB]

Don't Ryanair fall foul of visa regulations if they advertise a flight to one country and land in another? If I need and obtain a visa to enter Denmark and then take a Ryanair flight that I think goes to Copenhagen, how are the Swedish immigration authorities going to react when I turn up at Malmo?

Both are in Schengen, meaning if you have a visa for one (or don't need one) it is valid for the other.

Now if they start flying to Windsor (Ontario) and call it Detroit South they could be in trouble.

[Pegpilot]

I've now stopped using LearyJet (given that they've now plumbed the depths of self-parody in terms of income generation), but many moons ago I did travel to Hahn to visit Bernkastel - Kues for the German Christmas markets and a picturseque little place on the Moselle. Only 20 minutes by cab. So any airport is only as useful as what you want to use it for....

Definitely recommend Bernkastel though...

Cheers all

Peg

[ConstantFlyer]

So any airport is only as useful as what you want to use it for....
Quite so, Pegpilot. I believe there are many unnecessarily circuitous journeys made. Not everyone is travelling from city centre to city centre.

Let's take the London to Frankfurt example. For passengers starting their journey in London's Trafalgar Square, a journey to either Heathrow or City is easily achievable. Similarly, those heading for Frankfurt's centre will be well catered for by Rhein-Main Airport.

However, someone from Colchester going to the German town of Trier might be better suited going Stansted to Hahn, rather than trogging across London and Frankfurt unnecessarily.

On most flights you will have a mixture of both centre-to-centre, centre-to-rural, rural-to-centre and rural-to-rural passengers.

[dudleydick]

I used Rynair a few years ago to Frankfurt Hahn. I recall the bus fare was more than the airfare and combined was more expensive than a legacy carrier direct to Frankfurt.

[Dan Winterland]

I've used the service to get to Saarbruken. Very handy for that, not much use for those who actually want to go to Frankfurt. On my flight, there were a few who didn't know that it was going to twice as long to get from Hahn to Frankfurt than the flight took. They weren't impressed. If you fly Pikeyair (or any LoCo carrier for that matter) you have to do your research into their less than transparent charging system and where they will actually deliver you to!

[Bigmouth]

Ah - when I say short business hop, I meant distance wise, not time. I'm there for a week so the travelling from Hahn and back although a bit of an inconvenience is not going to ruin us.
If I flipped burgers at MickeyD´s my hourly rate might justify a 1:45 bus ride in lieu of a pricier air ticket. But since that isn´t the case anymore, having moved up in the world just ever so slightly, my time is worth a great deal more to me. Wether I am on the clock or not.

[Hotel Tango]

ConstantFlyer, quite so, but I think that you miss the point. Nothing wrong with flying to Hahn, which may well be handy for some, but plenty wrong with trying to pass it off as Frankfurt. A bit like calling Southampton "London-Southampton".

[DaveReidUK]

A bit like calling Southampton "London-Southampton".

Not to mention

http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/images/new_graphics/oxford_airport_logo3.jpg

which is actually closer to the the centre of Birmingham ...

[OFSO]

..and don't try flying to "Brussels" either 'cos you'll land an hour away by bus, at Charleroi.

P.S. We won't have that problem on the London-Girona route from next month because having signed a contract to provide the route for the next year or so, Ryanair has had a hissy fit and cancelled it (yet again).

The airline that you can trust (to leave you stranded).

[Pilotinmydreams]

Anyone who has actually done this route, is it quicker to get the bus (provided it's not full) or go for taxi to the next town and then train to Frankfurt?

[BEagle]

Why not look at either Stansted or Heathrow to Köln with German Wings, then the fast train to Frankfurt?

People who fly Ryanair are like those who buy counterfeit goods from a car boot sale, or pirated software. Guilty of encouraging bottom-feeding, unscrupulous people like Mikey-the-Pikey, who coudn't give a damn about either workforce or customers.

[Shack37]

Slight thread drift rant:

In a short thread we have two references to Pikey Air and Mikey-the- Pikey which presumably both mean Ryanair. Is this because O'Leary is Irish and therefore a pikey, implying that all Irish are pikeys?

Rant over......carry on bigots.

[davidjohnson6]

Pilotinmydreams - if travelling between Hahn and Frankfurt-am-Main, the only useful train station in between is Mainz, or in an emergency Koblenz / Ludwigshafen. For some bus routes (e.g. Mainz), you buy tickets from the driver, while for others you buy from a ticket counter in the airport terminal.

Bus frequency from Hahn airport to towns is not great - a 2 hour gap between buses is quite normal. Once the bus sets off, it's usually fairly speedy and goes on the most direct route with either zero stops or maybe 1 stop.

You can find bus times at
Official website of the airport Frankfurt-Hahn (http://www.hahn-airport.de/default.aspx?menu=by_bus&cc=en#)

You can also find train times at
bahn.com - your online travel booking tool for rail journeys, holidays, city trips and car rental (http://www.bahn.de/i/view/GBR/en/index.shtml)

You can get a taxi from Hahn to Mainz (nearest proper station), but at 55 miles, it won't be particularly cheap - think about 100 pounds - and yes the taxi driver may be open to bartering on price for a good long fare. Then again, if you and your boss are going there for work, the value of your and his time might make it worth spending the money.

A taxi from Hahn to Mainz station will take about 1 hour 5 mins, while the bus takes about 1 hour 10 mins.

If arriving at Hahn, I'd probably say in priority order:
1 - if there's a bus direct to Frankfurt within an hour, take it - you'll save on time spent waiting for a train anywhere else.
2 - if there's a bus going to Mainz within 30 mins take it
3 - consider taking a taxi to Mainz and then train to Frankfurt
4 - if there's a bus to Ludwigshafen (bus continues to Heidelberg) within 30 mins, take it
5 - if there's a bus to Koblenz within 30 mins, take it
6 - spend the money and take a taxi to Mainz anyway

The route you should take really does depend on what time of day your flight lands at and departs from Hahn.

One final thing. Under no circumstances should you or your boss reveal to your counterparts in Frankfurt that you are flying to/from Hahn. They will likely regard you as unreliable cheapskate muppets and not suitable as business partners. Just let them assume you flew to the main Frankfurt airport like any normal business people instead.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Thank you for the information David, will make the trip a little easier.

[farci]

One final thing. Under no circumstances should you or your boss reveal to your counterparts in Frankfurt that you are flying to/from Hahn. They will likely regard you as unreliable cheapskate muppets and not suitable as business partners. Just let them assume you flew to the main Frankfurt airport like any normal business people instead. ...or alternatively a partner who takes a sensible view of business expenses and is unconcerned about pretension :ooh: ?

[DaveReidUK]

...or alternatively a partner who takes a sensible view of business expenses and is unconcerned about pretension ?

Hear, hear. Let's have no more of these suggestions that Germans are obsessively status-conscious and more concerned with appearance over substance.

[TSR2]

You can get a taxi from Hahn to Mainz (nearest proper station), but at 55 miles, it won't be particularly cheap - think about 100 pounds .... Then again, if you and your boss are going there for work, the value of your and his time might make it worth spending the money.

If the value of time is so important, would it not be cheaper to fly direct to Frankfurt ?

[Dont Hang Up]

One final thing. Under no circumstances should you or your boss reveal to your counterparts in Frankfurt that you are flying to/from Hahn. They will likely regard you as unreliable cheapskate muppets and not suitable as business partners. Just let them assume you flew to the main Frankfurt airport like any normal business people instead.

On the basis that, for a business traveller, time is money then it is difficult to envisage how a low cost flight to Hahn for business in Frankfurt could ever make sense.

Yes short notice flight from UK to Frankfurt may be in the £400 to £500 bracket. But if you factor in the cost of four or five hours extra travelling time for the individual before even thinking about the cost of rail and taxiis then I do not see a flight to Hahn ever being cheaper in real terms.

Cheapskating on Ryanair only makes sense for the private flyer who chooses to sacrifice a lot of their own time to save the money.

[ExXB]

Looking a week out I see flights from LGW/LHR/LCY to FRA around £170-180 per person all in.

Cryanair is more like £100 but I don't think this includes all charges. It's impossible to tell without actually booking something.

I also found it difficult to use their site - the captchas they use are very difficult to discern. Took me four goes. I know why they use them, but really is this the best they can do?

[EDMJ]

Munich-West (a.k.a Memmingen) is another creative designation; essentially just as far away from Munich as Hahn is from Frankfurt..... :}

[Pilotinmydreams]

If there are alternatives for £170 - £180 then as per my original post, I did indeed drop a bollock. I hadn't realised at the time that Frankfurt Hahn wasn't actually in Frankfurt. More research needed next time. The FR flight was as near as makes no difference £100 all in with hold baggage. I've booked a shuttle from the airport to the city now which makes the whole thing around £100 cheaper overall with FR. Not my finest hour but we all make mistakes I guess.

I would also say that the Ryan Air flight was quite convenient for us time wise.

[Dont Hang Up]

Wow!

Ryan Air flight

and

was quite convenient for us time wise

Are phrases you do not see together very often.

:D

[canard68]

At least the Germans have made good use of the old cold war bases turning then into airports.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Now back from my Frankfurt trip and can report the following.

Hahn is a pain in the arse and unless you really don't mind travelling for ages after you arrive in Germany, pay the extra and go to Frankfurt International.

Mistake made and hands up for that but you live and learn I suppose.