A Little Good News

[DX Wombat]

Always nice to have a little good news. Hope this (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/uks-g4s-makes-military-donation-games-failure-031615947--sector.html) does a lot of good.

[hval]

The gesture is appreciated.

Personally I feel that G4S might have shown a little more appreciation (i.e. to the tune of £5 million perhaps).

[BEagle]

The incompetent G4S still expects to trouser its £57M 'management fee' for screwing up the security contract for the Olympics.....

A miserly £2.5M to 'British military sports and welfare organisations' is totally inadequate. There is no guarantee that any of those who had to fill in for the useless G4S will feel any benefit.

Instead, I consider that each of the 18200 service personnel who had to protect Coe's folly should receive a tax-free payment of (£57 + £2.5) x 1000000 / 18200 = £3269. G4S should not be paid its management fee and Buckles should be axed.

[Winco]

Absolutely spot on BEagle.

Infact, lets just round it up to a straight £3500 each, tax free and with a public guarantee from the PM that NO leave will be lost at all as a result of this jockstrapping fiasco.

Well done and huge thanks to every serviceman and woman that were involved. Thank you.

Winco

[Pontius Navigator]

By the right, right foot forward . . .

Mind you, given the cost of a building, or the cost for equipping a gym, the money would not go very far.

Will the money go in to the infrastructure kitty or will units bid for new volley ball kit or football strip? Or will it be used to sponsor world-class athletes within the military community?

[hval]

Beagle,

I do believe that G4S is going to be punished for not meeting its' contractual obligations. Whether this actually occurs we shall have to wait and see.

I agree totally that G4S should lose the £57 Million management fee. After all they did not manage. G4S will still receive payment for the security that they did provide. A rather large payment.

The money recouped/ not paid out to G4S will not be going to the MOD, despite the military incurring costs. Anyone any idea which budget the military costs for providing security will be coming from?

[StopStart]

I am sure that having to provide security for the Olympics was an enormous ball ache for a few folk, especially if leave etc was lost. That said, once the initial gurning was over, I'll warrant that the majority of military personnel enjoyed the experience. I completely agree that a £2.5M gesture is a bit weak and that double that might go some way to acknowledging the enormity of G4S's balls up. Paying individuals directly wouldn't work and would just be divisive. I hope the MoD use the money wisely and it isn't used to patch up a hole in their budget and isn't seen as a way to make a saving somewhere else. The Olympic contract was small beans to G4S and they can most definitely afford more than £2.5M.

As an aside, having attended a couple of Olympic venues (as a civvy!) I'd just like to say that the military personnel on duty were an outstanding advert for all that's good about the UK Forces. Polite, relaxed, helpful and humorous they were the perfect antidote to the G4S "security" mongs who spent their time getting off on fluorescent-jacketed power trips. I came to the conclusion that the G4S folk were, on the whole, working at the limit of their mental capacity just scanning bags and so generally couldn't interact like normal human beings (as we see day in day out at airports). The military folk on the other hand found the whole thing a breeze and were thus able to communicate in relaxed and friendly fashion with a smile on their faces.

A ballache yes but the military personnel involved did an outstanding job and did themselves and their Services proud.

[500N]

Re leave lost

Did I miss something in all the write ups on forums and the media ?

How come the service people are going to lose leave if they
were in uniform for the period of the games ?

If someone could explain, that would be good.

[Wensleydale]

Anyone know if the same level of military commitment will carry on into the Paralympics starting in 2 weeks time?

[airborne_artist]

500N - there quite a few whose leave was cancelled when their unit was assigned to Olympic security.

[Shack37]

Re leave lost

Did I miss something in all the write ups on forums and the media ?

How come the service people are going to lose leave if they
were in uniform for the period of the games ?

If someone could explain, that would be good.


Obviously you did.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

As posted by AA

[Courtney Mil]

I think 500N's point was about folks actually losing thier leave entitlement, not just being unable to take it during those two weeks or so.

[Jumping_Jack]

500N. Two guys that work for me were pinged (no other choice) who had already booked holidays with their families that had to be cancelled (with the resulting utter faff trying to recover 'non refundable' deposits). Is it really so difficult that you couldn't imagine that sort of scenario? :ugh:

[500N]

OK, clarification.

I know leave was cancelled, I know it was a balls up, family holidays cancelled
and the PITA of trying to get non refundable deposits back.


I read "especially if leave etc was lost" as a solider who had applied for leave
and had it granted, booked holidays then got called up for the Olympics
would not get his leave credited back.


Edit
Courtney Mil got it in one. "folks actually losing their leave entitlement"

Thanks Courtney.

[Shack37]

I think 500N's point was about folks actually losing thier leave entitlement, not just being unable to take it during those two weeks or so.

And my point is the possibility that some of these personnel should have been on pre-deployment leave before going to the big beach.

[Pontius Navigator]

500N, true, no loss of entitlement perhaps.

Only so much leave (RAF) can be carried forward in any one year. Units have leave plans and leave embargoes. If you lost your two weeks in the summer school holidays there is slim chance of regaining it this summer.

With leave plans thee may well be available slots later in the year and indeed the holidays may be cheaper but for those with school age children . . .

The leave year finishes at the end of March. You may just run out of time or run in to Ops or pre-Ops work-ups. Autumn is the exercise period and so on.

You can simply run out of year in which to take leave. That said, in almost 40 years I always got my full entitlement.

[Wensleydale]

Given 30 working days leave each year, with up to 15 days to carry forward, and adding in the bank holidays and stn standdown days etc, this comes to around 52 days. In theory you could have a four day week for a whole year!

[Laarbruch72]

Pontious: The MoD announced last week that troops pulled in for Olympic duty will be allowed to carry over any amount of leave owed for the next two years. The 14 day rule doesn't apply.

[Genstabler]

That said, in almost 40 years I always got my full entitlement.
In 36 years in the Army I can honestly say that I never got my full entitlement.

[spaniels ears]

Pontius; as someone who hasn't managed to get his leave in for 10 years+ (along with pretty much every other member of my sqn), I'm delighted for you that you didn't struggle, but fairly astonished that you choose this forum to advertise the fact. As for the other grumpy old man with a million posts who will moan about "jockstraperry" and "Coe's folly", well done to you Sir if you've managed to be unmoved by the achievements of team GB. I, personally, have found the games to be utterly inspiring; a shining example of what we can be, rather than a constant tirade about what we used to be!

[BEagle]

spaniels ears, if you choose to measure a nation's prowess by sporting achievment, then fine, that's your opinion.

I happen to feel that there are more important things in life than sport.

[Green Flash]

As regards leave year ending in March, the MOD Civ org I work for moved from April to birth month as your start of leave year. It worked fine, in both paper and electronic worlds.

[Winco]

spaniels ears

I guess the other 'grumpy old man' you refered to was me, so I'll bite!

If you, and the rest of your sqn have been able to get in all of your leave for 10 years+, then i would assume that you are not on an operational squadron. If you are, then perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to your a/c type you operate, what you are or do on the sqn and more importantly, how you have been able to manage it!!

I no longer have that problem, but I still know a great many aircrew in the services and I don't know any that get their full entitlement of leave.

As for the rubbish about those of us that were 'unmoved by the achievements of team GB' I can only say this.....
I wasn't particularly 'moved' by them I concede, but I was pleased to see that they had done so well. My big gripe is that I fail to see why a huge amount of everyday servicemen and women should have their lives turned upside down and generally fu£$ed about, so that a handful of (very) tallented sportspeople can have their minute glory. IMHO it wasn't worth it!

If you like watching or doing sports then great. But if you would rarther be with your wife, kids, family and/or friends then I don't see why you should have been screwed around by those would rarther run round a track, or chuck a spear or two.

So, there you have the two replies from the Grumpy Old Men.

Winco

[Genstabler]

Spaniels Ears
Well said.
I too, Beagle, am completely disinterested in sport and repelled by "jockstrappery". However, these games were about a great deal more than that. I was inspired to see the mass of competitors, volunteers, officials and spectators having a wonderful time, getting along together in such a buoyant, friendly and generous mood. And I was proud of how well we delivered it. Before the start I was apprehensive that Coe and those responsible for planning and organising the whole shebang would deliver a cringe making debacle and shame us in front of the whole world, as the Germans (Spiegel) were anticipating with their habitual schadenfreude. To my relief and delight they delivered the opposite. "Coe's Folly" was an international triumph, united the kingdom and confounded the foes and sceptics. The fact that our athletes also turned in an outstanding sporting performance was icing on the cake.
Those johnny foreigners once again made the mistake of underestimating us Brits! You'd think they would have learned by now.

[Goprdon]

Just musing. I wonder if G4S are making sure that the £2.5M is a charitable payment and so is tax deductible.

[Genstabler]

Winco
I think you fired on the wrong target! Read spaniel's post again.

[Pontius Navigator]

Spaniel,

At the risk of thread drift, I feel justified in my comment in context. Laarbruch, good point thank you.

In the cold war days we still had pressures on leave but we also had more man power and a little flex.

My point is that leave is an entitlement and it should not be pared away. The norm should be for all leave to be taken not that leave is lost.

And I am not out of touch as one son-in-law had had OOA in Iraq and Afg, the other is about to start a second in Afg, my daughter has done an OOA in Afg. They all got their leave.

[Winco]

Spaniel,

Humble apologies a thousand times over - should have read it more carefully - sorry. Can't even blame post flight fatigue I'm afraid!

My sympathies that you too haven't managed all your leave either.

Winco

[spaniels ears]

Winco - no problem. Happens to us all.

[OutlawPete]

You d have to be made of stone not to be moved by the performance of Team GB. The feel good factor was beyond words and I too am not a fan of watching sport on tv.

"Coes folly" was a roaring success and placed GB on prime time the world over. Just take a look at the US viewing figures alone.

You could even argue that the G4S fiasco was turned to our advantage given the supportive comments made by many spectators who could witness the professionalism of our armed forces first hand.

Made me proud to be British. In fact the only negative comments I ve witnessed have been on here!

[Cornish Jack]

You d have to be made of stone not to be moved by the performance of Team GB
Hmmm! Well I've had a prod at the obvious areas and the fingers make an impression, so soapstone, perhaps?
The awful little Coe (whose only claim to fame seems to be running around in circles quite quickly) has nicely used £9,000,000,000 (count the noughts!)of taxpayer's money (mainly) to bolster his chances of further non-productive employment. Good for him? Team GB's accomplishments? Fine, if that's what floats your boat but it has done a big fat zilch for the many, many people in this country who have REAL needs and the "legacy" shows signs of being equally ineffective. National Pride??? Methinks good old Dr Samuel Johnson had it well phrased with his "Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", or similar. For me, "Bah Humbug!" does quite nicely, thank you.

[Pontius Navigator]

Made me proud to be British. In fact the only negative comments I ve witnessed have been on here!

Quite.

Though I did read or hear that our opinion of the games would be printed in the media :)

[Clockwork Mouse]

Cornish Jack
You would have been wiser to have limited your rant to "bah, humbug" as the rest of it does you and your outlook on life little credit.

[Cornish Jack]

Bit long in the tooth for 'wisdom' to enter the equation but, apart from basking in the reflected glory of sombody else's efforts, just what did this running and jumping jamboree ACTUALLY DO for those not attending/involved? £9,000,000,000 is rather a lot of cash (TWICE the original estimate!!) to provide a fortnight's self-congratulation for a very limited portion of the population. However, our very worthy Fourth Estate apparently felt that it was a jolly good thing so it must be so ... Non?

[Roland Pulfrew]

Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

Not wishing to be too picky, but I think it was 'patriotism' not 'nationalism'.

Personally I have never understood why it should be so wrong to be a patriot and apparently nor does Dr Johnson:
A patriot is he whose publick conduct is regulated by one single motive, the love of his country; who, as an agent in parliament, has, for himself, neither hope nor fear, neither kindness nor resentment, but refers every thing to the common interest.


Anyway, back to the debate. I am hardly the best advert for phys (at least not since the demise of my rugby playing days) and there are few sports that I would take an active interest in, but I have to admit to being carried along by the occasion and found myself watching all sorts of sports that I wouldn't normally show even a passing interest in.

I think the UK did a great job, as, so it seems, does most of the rest of the world. Did we make a "profit"? Probably not, but only time will tell. Does it really matter? Again probably not. One can only hope that the legacy will be the thing that finally matters, but then again the bean counters will never be able to put a value on that.

[BEagle]

Panem et circenses! Distract the populace with something free and a few games and they'll stay happy....

I've just spent an hour or so on the phone listening to the tales of woe coming in from people whose livelihood has been compromised by the fall off in trade which Coe's folly has inflicted upon them. Hopefully some will recover, others might well not. And I don't mean those hoteliers whose conspicuous greed actually worked against them.....

So yes, if you're happy that it was taxpayer's money well spent to have the Spice Girls standing on top of taxis and other such 'feel good' items, keep smiling. Please do. Our sportspeople did well, 'tis true - and congratulations to them. But they might have done equally well, perhaps, if the whole thing hadn't been so totally over-the-top.

And do try to spare a thought for those whose livelihoods have been so badly affected.

[Clockwork Mouse]

If London hadn't won the games and if Coe hadn't made such a good job of it we would be just as poor, twice as miserable and not have earned the (grudging) respect of much of the world, including the lot across the channel.
But then some people were born blooming miserable. No names, no pack drill.

[hval]

Cornish Jack,

£9 Billion is an underestimate. There are items not shown in that bill. One significant costs includes the security costs. These add approximately £1 Billion (or so I am led to believe). The disruption to the military personal and to MOD plans, materiel etc. may not be included in these costs. Did someone in the army not say it will take two the forces years to recover from providing security. Then there are the cost of the police, medical care and much more.

I believe with various other factors the costs are something like £11 Billion

Then there are the BBC costs. How many millions was that? We, the tax payer get the bill.

Oh yes, something I forgot to include. There is the £766m price tag for buying the land for the Olympic Park, additional money for facilities elsewhere, and £826m of legacy projects. Accommodation costs for the Officials like Roge, security details and accommodation for foreign politicians and royalty.

Finally there is all that lost income to London and elsewhere.

Final cost? £15 Billion to £20 Billion.

What were we told it would cost when we won the Olympics bid? £3 billion.

[OutlawPete]

I've just spent an hour or so on the phone listening to the tales of woe coming in from people whose livelihood has been compromised by the fall off in trade which Coe's folly has inflicted upon them. Hopefully some will recover, others might well not.

Businesses suffering (and respective livelihoods) is not good news at all but one wonders if the Olympics is just a convienient scapegoat. After all, for the past few years many have been going to the wall every week and surely a business that cannot survive two weeks of disruption, I'm sad to say was probably on a shaky peg anyway.

Besides, the decision to host the Olympics was made before this economic downturn so whats done is done. Best to enjoy it and revel in the success most of us see it to be, regardless of any opinion the tabloid press may choose to thrust on us at a later date.