Post 1945 campaigns

[Steve Bond]

I am working on a major project looking at the various wars and lesser campaigns that the RAF has been involved in post 1945, and am anxious to contact anyone who took part in them in any way - aircrew, ground crew, etc) - please.

The non-definitive list includes:

Berlin airlift
Korea
Suez
Biara oil lift
Kuwait
Indonesian confrontation
Kenya anti-Mau Mau
Malayan Emergency
Congo
Brunei
Iceland - Cod War

and anything else I have missed

I would be most grateful for any offers of help.

Thanks

Steve Bond

[air pig]

Falklands, Oman, Aden, Northern Ireland, Sierra leone, Balkans in the 90s, Belize and Antigua, all come to mind.

[airborne_artist]

But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period? ;)

[Roland Pulfrew]

Iraq x 2 and Afghanistan?

[Fareastdriver]

They were too frightened of the RAF to come up.

[rubberband2]

RAF Akrotiri and Sovereign Base Areas defence – August 1974 Turkish invasion of the island of Cyprus

[salad-dodger]

London Olympics 2012

S-D

[Roadster280]

Libya.

Beirut/Lebanon.

Edited to add:

Two VERY large items that will be missed if you don't explicitly include them, but are SO large that they have had a profound effect:

1. The Cold War! There hasn't been a RAF airfield in Germany for years, but it used to be the frontline.

2. Annual spending rounds.

[Steve Bond]

Yes thanks chaps, including listing some other items I missed. With respect though, it's not just about how many aircaft we may or may not have shot down, as in most of these cases the answer is none.

What I am looking for is the memories and experiences of people who were involved in these events.

Thanks.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

various wars and lesser campaigns


Is it only military actions you're after? If you include humanitarian operations, that would significantly expand the list

[Ken Scott]

But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period?

As soon as I saw the thread title I thought 'how long before someone mentions the number of ac shot down since WW2?'

Answer: post 3! Good effort.

Now if someone posts the Jaguar kill by post 12 I win £5......

[LXXIV]

The rather inappropriately named Operation Titan springs to mind. Memories of the hardships we endured at the International Hotel at Port Vila linger still.
LXXIV

[Al R]

Op Determinant.

[Steve Bond]

Yes, humanitarian actions too. Anything that required reaction to a major situation if you like.

Op Determinent?

[salad-dodger]

Op Fresco :E

[Old-Duffer]

Rhodesia/Zimbabwe transition.

Zambia protection against possible Rhodesian 'agression' - 29 Sqn Javelins

Radfan, Aden, Oman 1957 and 1970s already mentioned.

May I suggest that having sorted out a chronilogical summary of the 'campaigns' and other operations, you next do a bibliographical search. In some cases there is widespread coverage but in others it is scant.

You won't be able to do justice to all that has been done in the last 67 years in a single volume - this project will keep you occupied for years - good luck.

Old Duffer

[foldingwings]

Oh fer fa*ks sake, But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period? airborne artist - give it a rest!

Steve, ignore him it's his bandwagon and anyway, the answer is one! F-4 v Jaguar in 2 ATAF and yes, we've all heard it before and we all know how it came about!

Foldie:E

[Kitbag]

But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period? Not as many as US Patriot batteries have managed with their allies.

Now do give it a rest

[Pontius Navigator]

The first MiG-15 fell to an RAF pilot when Flight Lieutenant John Nicholls completed 100 missions in six months with No.335 Fighter Interception Squadron USAF at Seoul, shooting down a MiG on his last but one mission in Korea in December 1952
Flight Lieutenant RTF Dickinson, shooting down One MiG-15
Flight Lieutenant John Granville-White, One MiG 15 kill
Flight Lieutenant Graham S Hulse, Three MiG 15 kills

[Ken Scott]

the answer is one! F-4 v Jaguar in 2 ATAF and yes, we've all heard it before and we all know how it came about!

Actually I think it's a few more depending on how you count them. Ignoring all the ones (6) by RAF pilots in SHARs during the Falklands & those flying Sabres in Korea (6) with USAF, I believe there were a couple of Egyptians around 1948 (confirmed) plus a couple of Israelis (unconfirmed) & possibly a few more including a C130 by a Javelin during the Indonesian conflict that was too politcally sensitive to confirm. There was also an Iraqi Mig 29 believed destroyed whilst taking off during GW1 by a Tornado & JP233 although as it was still on the runway it's not really an air-to-air kill!

There was also a Harrier shot down (deliberately) by a Lightning to prevent it crashing uncontrolled after the pilot had ejected.

Not that it matters one jot as you can't measure the worth of the entire RAF by such a simple measure although there are plenty of simpletons who try!

[Pontius Navigator]

Ken, if we count the GR1/Mig 29 we might also mention the Buccaneer/Cub.

[Jimlad1]

If one really must bring up the tired old subject of kills, could someone please advise how many 'kills' have been achieved by other air forces in the same period. It would be nice to be able to make a meaningful comparison!

[Ken Scott]

Not sure that would be a meaningful comparison because it depends on the type of conflicts - the USA had a bit of a major conflict going on in Vietnam that gave plenty of opportunity for air-to-air action that the UK (sensibly) declined to get involved in & the Israelis have had numerous opportunities whilst having to defend their country from attack. I'm sure the latter would have welcomed the (relative) peace that we have enjoyed post WW2.

[500N]

"the Israelis have had numerous opportunities whilst having to defend their country from attack."

How about "the Israelis have had numerous opportunities whilst attacking others and defending their country from attack".

They have a pretty good record and numbers.

[November4]

Pretty much a complete list since 1964

Operations involving MAMS since 1964 (http://www.rafmams.co.uk/Operations/IndexOperations.htm)

Humanitarian Ops involving MAMS since 1964 (http://www.rafmams.co.uk/Operations/IndexHumanitarian.htm)

[MFC_Fly]

But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period?
Of course, the RAF only has fighter aircraft and it's only purpose is air-to-air combat :ugh: You must be a senior officer or politician with thinking like that :rolleyes:

[RubiC Cube]

Pretty much a complete list

Op Heliotrope?

[Pontius Navigator]

RC,

Second Cod War.

Then there are other operations whose details will be frozen in time :mad:

[Andu]

Getting back to the original question: how about Palestine (leading up to the establishment of Israel and just after)? A number of RAF aircraft were lost, and if anecdotal evidence (bar chat, a very long time ago) is to be believed, a number of RAF aircraft were also "lost", only to magically be found (if never acknowledged) wearing something other than a roundel.

[JOE-FBS]

This might help:

Britains Small Wars (http://www.britains-smallwars.com/)

[Shackman]

Pedant's hat on - Beira Patrol not 'Baira Oil Lift'. We found the tankers, the navy stopped them.

[Dockers]

Steve

Have you tried

A history of conflicts (http://www.conflicthistory.com/#/period/1945-2001)

and

Post-war aviation historian and writer - Vic Flintham (http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/)

good for background?

[Tankertrashnav]

Might one tentatively mention the RAF Regiment which the last I heard was also part of the RAF. Whilst their flying counterparts were being frustrated in basically having nobody to shoot down in these minor conflicts, the same could not be said on the ground. I knew an RAF Regiment officer who had won the Military Cross for action in Aden, and in the same theatre a friend of mine personally accounted for three would-be gunmen who unwisely thought that attacking a vehicle armed with a GPMG would be a good idea! In the air the Hunter squadrons were admittedly not shooting down other aircraft, but their Aden guns saw plenty of use in support of troops on the ground in up-country actions.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, what you mention of course is that the RAF forte is offensive action rather than defensive.

You mention Hunters, was the Argosy bomber ever used? Did the Shacklebomber use is guns in anger?

[November4]

Op Heliotrope

Tell me what it was and if MAMS were involved, will get it added to the list

[NutLoose]

Did the UK get involved in World War Eleven?

Next Generation
On Radio 4 this morning, they ran a story about the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima. The only survivor of the crew still with us is the navigator. The teacher at a high school in the States introduced him as a veteran of World War Eleven!!!!!!!!!!!

WW 11...... Sigh, you wouldn't believe a teacher could be that dumb.

[Shack37]

Pedant's hat on - Beira Patrol not 'Baira Oil Lift'. We found the tankers, the navy stopped them.:ok:

Might one tentatively mention the RAF Regiment which the last I heard was also part of the RAF. Whilst their flying counterparts were being frustrated in basically having nobody to shoot down in these minor conflicts, the same could not be said on the ground. I knew an RAF Regiment officer who had won the Military Cross for action in Aden, and in the same theatre a friend of mine personally accounted for three would-be gunmen who unwisely thought that attacking a vehicle armed with a GPMG would be a good idea! In the air the Hunter squadrons were admittedly not shooting down other aircraft, but their Aden guns saw plenty of use in support of troops on the ground in up-country actions.

One certainly might..... and should.


You mention Hunters, was the Argosy bomber ever used? Did the Shacklebomber use is guns in anger?

Can't comment on the Whistling Tit being used as a bomber but the Shack did use the 20mm on occasion as witnessed by the odd camel or two.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nov4, Heliotrope was operated only from main base. I don't know if St Mawgan was involved but we certainly were. Not sure quite what the rate of effort was, I think it was one sortie per day throughout.

First off was finding the fleet. Then the mail drop. Then the direct support.

I remember one incident when we got "Strangle your gadget I am about to operate my hooter." The frigate, which at the time was shoulder to shoulder with a gunboat then operated his hooters at full power which I suspect rather overload the gunboat radar.

[November4]

Thanks PN....

[Shack37]

Foldie and Ken Scott


But how many aircraft has the RAF brought down in air-to-air combat in this period? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


Note the wink at the end of AA's post. Do believe you may have been hooked:)

[ORAC]

The apposite quote concerning the role of the offensive of role of air power is to: "go into other people's countries and blow up their stuff."

Whilst the RN may have done the gentlemanly cavalry thing and wait for the enemy to get airborne before engaging in a bit of jousting, I would ask who has destroyed more of the enemy's stuff since 1945?

[Biggus]

.....I know who has destroyed most of the UK's military stuff since 1945 - The Treasury!!

[Steve Bond]

Thanks again for all the responses, especially those with some useful links and leads.

Just to clarify; the intent is NOT to write a detailed account of each campaign; as has been rightly said, this would take multiple volumes. The aim is to produce a work covering 100 years of the Royal Air Force, and selecting a number of campaigns to represent each decade, focussing on "I was there" personal accounts rather than simply the dry facts of what, why and when. Before anyone asks, yes I do have personal accounts covering the earliest decades for which there are now no survivors.

I hope that gives you a steer.

Regards

Steve
(RAF 1973-94)

[airborne_artist]

Shack37 wrote: Note the wink at the end of AA's post. Do believe you may have been hookedhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

I didn't expect two in quick succession :}

[Steve Bond]

Aaron,

Berlin Airlift was at the top of my original list.

[XV277]

Ken, if we count the GR1/Mig 29 we might also mention the Buccaneer/Cub.

Didn't the cub turn out to be an ex-Kuwaiti Hercules, and the Mig 29 a Mirage F1?