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View Full Version : Silent Hawk pic - or film prop?


tartare
8th Aug 2012, 01:42
Here's a shot that may be of interest:

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2012/08/blurred.jpg

Speculation on Wired magazine that it is most likely a prop for the new Bigelow film `Zero-Dark-Thirty' about the operation to kill Bin Laden.

Source article here. (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/movie-prop-or-stealth/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Top+Stories%2 9)

If it's Hollywood - looks like they've done a pretty convincing estimation; F117-era nose and fuselage facets, intake diffusers (?) arcuate BERP-type rotor tips.
Only thing I could fault them on is that the main rotor diameter looks pretty damn small for an airframe of Blackhawk size.
What say you, military helo drivers?
Mods - posted here because it seemed more military pilot than Rotorheads.

I know they're Spams - but I can't wait to see the film.:E

FLCH
8th Aug 2012, 02:20
Bollocks !

Buster Hyman
8th Aug 2012, 02:27
Chopper used in a SEAL attack, yet US Army soldier standing in front of it? Hmmm....

Time on photo says 23:53 yet still daylight? Hmmm....

Crate 92 next to crate 37? Hmmmm....

:suspect::suspect::suspect:

tartare
8th Aug 2012, 02:38
US army uniform - entirely possible Buster - after all these are the blokes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/160th_Special_Operations_Aviation_Regiment_(Airborne)) that fly them - right?

Clock on the camera - could be any number of reasons for that.
It's more than likely a film prop.
Guess what I'm interested in is how accurate this `supposed' Stealth Hawk looks from a military pilot's point of view.

Bushfiva
8th Aug 2012, 02:45
It's a film prop, and the photo is being spread virally to create interest in the film.

500N
8th Aug 2012, 02:49
"It's a film prop, and the photo is being spread virally to create interest in the film."

+1

Exactly what I was thinking. Timing is perfect.

.

SASless
8th Aug 2012, 04:48
Are you sure there are not other folks that do that sort of thing but are not military units?

Do a bit of research about Proprietary Airlines operated by various government and pseudo-government agencies and services of the US Government.

There are a lot of possible operators out there that you may not even have begun to think about.

airborne_artist
8th Aug 2012, 05:33
Look closely at the image and I think there are some signs of Photoshopping. I'm not even sure that structure exists in the flesh.

500N
8th Aug 2012, 05:46
Their are signs of Photoshopping but that could be to
"tidy" up the image considering it looks pretty dirty
and dusty in there.

The things that jumped out to me were the soldier
looks like he has been dropped in and neither he
nor the helo seem to cast any or much shadow.

Looking at the soldier again, it looks like he has
been "sharpened" in Photoshop.


With the windows as they are on the helo all facing
different directions, I'd also expect at least one or two
of the roof windows and skylights to be reflected in them.

tartare
8th Aug 2012, 05:48
Intriguing.
Yes - I have no doubt that there are a large number of bland looking FBO type operations in the US, staffed by men with Raybans, buzz cuts, golf-shirts etc. who don't smile much, and won't let you into their hangars...:E
No doubt we'll find out whether the above is real or not when the film is released.
In the meantime this is interesting (http://theaviationist.com/2011/05/17/stealth-black-hawk-update/)

goudie
8th Aug 2012, 07:51
Square bullets?

tartare
8th Aug 2012, 08:09
Diamond shaped bullets.
They hurt more - becos of the sharp edges. ;)
No... I think an imaginative Hollywood type looked at the pitot/data sensor tubes on one of these puppies...
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Lockheed-F117/IMAGES/Lockheed-F117-Nighthawk-Stealth-Fighter-Title.jpg
...and got a little carried away.
And actually - as I view the photo of said Stealth Hawk above on my giant hi-res iMac screen at home at Tartare Towers - that matte black finish looks very spray painty...

Saintsman
8th Aug 2012, 09:40
Perhaps even a stealth helicopter would need windscreen wipers?

Tashengurt
8th Aug 2012, 10:12
Way too much F117 in that. I must say I'm quite impressed the way the 'stealthhawk' has faded into the black again. I'm still not sure I'm convinced it was a relative of the Blackhawk.

Stuff
8th Aug 2012, 10:29
I was under the impression that the F117 was angular because the computers they used back in the 70s to compute the stealth shape only had enough power to work with flat plates. Advances in computer technology since then have allowed the stealth calculations to be applied to curves as seen in F22 (designed 1986ish).

If this is supposed to be a "modern" stealth helicopter then it should be curved. The angular design implies it was designed pre 1980 which seems unlikely.

Willard Whyte
8th Aug 2012, 11:26
If this is supposed to be a "modern" stealth helicopter then it should be curved. The angular design implies it was designed pre 1980 which seems unlikely.

The RAH-66 had a fair amount of faceting...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Rah-66.jpg

It post-dates F-117A by ~15 years.

Agree though, almost certainly a film prop.

Stuff
8th Aug 2012, 12:34
Almost every panel on the Comanche seems curved on at least one axis to me.

chopper2004
8th Aug 2012, 13:38
Looks 50/50 real/fake to me like something one would see at Farnborough or Paris Le Bourget or even a Heli Expo.

Could be Scaled Composites called back into action by Hollywood after Seven Days

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/chopper1.jpg

Back to pic, the hangar looks realistic though the ground equipment vehicles look a little yellowish rather than the desert brown they're meant to be in. Light appears to be coming in the windows.

The plexiglass around the cockpit looks dusty and like used in a desert enviornment. though wheres the wire cutters springs to mind? Then the appearance of wire cutters might upset the low observability associated with the airframe?

The equipment boxes, cases look realsitic but probably can get that anywhere (not saying Argos or anywhere that sells Sansonite!!) or any tool shop.

Undercarriage looks well used

The pilot's the odd one out and as some1 suggested prob photoshopped in, so for realism, semi blank out his eyes to hide identity but flight BDUs look too clean and boots. The interesting thing is his patch on his velcro sleeve pocket. Didnt think unit patches would be allowed to be worn or something that would stick out if said aviators happen to share food in the mess tent along with other personnel.

If I am correct, looks like he has a rank of Maj or Lt Col, doesnt look like a CWO or WO.

Maybe if the pilot wasn't in the photo, it could look a little convincing?

Cheers

LTCTerry
8th Aug 2012, 13:55
If I am correct, looks like he has a rank of Maj or Lt Col, doesnt look like a CWO or WO.

He is a Specialist (SPC). This is the technical-oriented equivalent of the junior NCO rank of Corporal.

He is not a pilot, he's wearing aircrew wings.

flight BDUs BDU's? That's so last century. ACU's, please - Army Combat Uniform - and it looks like the ones I wear every day, rather than the aviator ACU's.

I'll join the "it's a prop" camp.

Terry

chopper2004
8th Aug 2012, 14:17
Hi Terry

Ah thanks for that and apologies for mis identifying the uniform a little out of touch!

Well at least Hollywood did the decent thing with the uniform unlike Tim Roths character of Captain Emil Bronsky RM exchange officer in The Incredible Hulk
where he's sporting a US Army SF captains uniform unlike a Royal Marines one.

Cheers

just another jocky
8th Aug 2012, 16:52
He's not photoshopped in IMO, also he does have shadows 2 o'clock from his feet, similar to the wheel.

Still think it's a film prop though.

El Grifo
8th Aug 2012, 17:20
Lighting deffo looks kosher !

Diffused lighting bouncing all over the place, produces exactly the type of shadow we see behind the legs !

Saved, opened and enlarged in PS shows not much going on in "cockpit" or "crewspace"

500N
8th Aug 2012, 17:25
A couple of other photos and information here plus a link to another thread
with someone who supposedly worked on the film.

Stealth Helicopter Or Movie Prop? | aviationintel (http://aviationintel.com/2012/08/07/stealth-helicopter-or-movie-prop/)

WASALOADIE
8th Aug 2012, 17:54
They dressed up a Gazelle for blue thunder so why not something similar for this film?

Rosevidney1
8th Aug 2012, 18:19
The photograph is as genuine as a politicians promise at election time. :p

SASless
8th Aug 2012, 20:12
Specialist Fourth Class rank emblem.....about equal to Corporal.

The shoulder patch being on the Left Shoulder indicates current unit assignment is Korea Advisory Command.

Those are probably Crew Chief Wings on his chest....based upon his rank.

But definitely not a pilot....not an Officer.

500N
8th Aug 2012, 20:34
SASless

I thought the shoulder patch on the left shoulder was the
29th Infantry Division shoulder patch.

I couldn't find a link to the Korean Advisory Command.

SASless
8th Aug 2012, 20:48
Could very well be....and would make more sense than the Korea Advisory Command...both have the same design....wonder what colors the patches are when not subdued.

Found this....
Current organization



Structure 29th Infantry Division
The 29th Infantry Division exercises Training and Readiness Oversight of the following elements, they cannot be considered organic:


29th Infantry Division Special Troops Battalion
Headquarters and Headquarters Company
29th Infantry Division Band

30th Heavy Brigade Combat Team (NC NG)
1st Squadron, 150th Cavalry Regiment
1st Battalion, 252nd Armor Regiment
1st Battalion, 120th Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, 113th Field Artillery Regiment
230th Brigade Support Battalion
Special Troops Battalion


116th Infantry Brigade Combat Team (VA NG)
2nd Squadron, 183rd Cavalry Regiment
1st Battalion, 116th Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion, 116th Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion, 111th Field Artillery Regiment
429th Brigade Support Battalion
Special Troops Battalion

Combat Aviation Brigade, 29th Infantry Division (MD NG)
1st Battalion, 285th Aviation Regiment
2nd Battalion, 224th Aviation Regiment
2nd Battalion, 229th Aviation Regiment
1st Battalion, 111th Aviation Regiment
1204th Aviation Support Battalion

500N
8th Aug 2012, 20:50
Yes, that's it. Famous unit.


I think from memory that the 29th patch is a light Blue and something else.
I'll go and have a look.

SASless
8th Aug 2012, 21:01
A book was written about the "Bedford Boys" that recounts the the 116th Infantry's experience in being the first ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day.

There is a monument in Bedford, Virginia that is a must see if one is in the area. It is reported they took 95% casualties within 15 minutes after hitting the beach with almost every single family in Bedford losing someone that one day.

Four companies from the 116th comprised the first wave: Companies A, E, F, and G, with Company A actually being the first American unit to land in occupied France.


As the LCAs drew closer to the beach, German artillery and mortar fire grew increasingly heavier, and several boats were hit and sunk before making it to the beach. As the boats ground to a halt and dropped their ramps, the men of the 116th were exposed to withering machine gun fire, and they were helpless as they waded ashore. Within fifteen minutes all of the officers and most of the NCOs of Company A were killed or wounded with one exception, and the rest of the company suffered over 60% casualties.


The rest of the regiment faired little better as the Germans swept Omaha Beach with artillery and small arms fire. As reinforcements from the 29th Infantry Division were landed, the Germans could no longer hold back the tide of GIs, and the 116th with its sister 115th Infantry Regiment, and the 2nd and 5th Ranger Battalions, was able to fight its way to the bluffs above the beach. The victory was at a high cost, for the regiment suffered 341 casualties (most of them from Co. A).

Finnpog
8th Aug 2012, 21:17
The 29th ID patch is Blue & Grey.

Thelma Viaduct
8th Aug 2012, 22:29
Looks way too small for a load of fat Alabamans and their 'special' forces accent, almost gazelle small.

tartare
8th Aug 2012, 22:53
From what I've read - the real Stealth Hawk does have a faceted fuselage, because it was developed around the time that the F117 was introduced into service - and as an earlier poster observed, computers at the time lacked the power to model continuously curved surfaces, such as found on the B2.
Actually knew a gentleman from the US who in a previous life worked as a civilian contractor maintaining military wokkas. One night after a few drinks, he claimed to have maintained said aircraft - and he quietly described them as "...looking quite like an F117."
BTW - the comments on that movie blog with the other photos give a true insight into the level of drop-kickery found amongst the average SPAM.:rolleyes:

CH2
8th Aug 2012, 22:53
Is the pilot Stringfellow Hawke? Movie Prop.

Thelma Viaduct
9th Aug 2012, 00:00
Stealth design is constrained by computing power which can also take a lot of time and so moolah, summat the 'tards are not short of.

fromTheShadows
9th Aug 2012, 09:29
Look closely at the image and I think there are some signs of Photoshopping. I'm not even sure that structure exists in the flesh.It has definitely been edited in Photoshop CS3, as it says so in the EXIF data. The date also matches that printed on the photo, but that means nothing as the date/time on the camera it was taken with could have been set to anything.

I can't comment on the degree of editing though - it may have been just to blur the face.

El Grifo
9th Aug 2012, 09:56
More likely a random snap of whatever it is.

Shot on a Nikon Coolpix 58100.

Hardly high spec equipment :ugh:

Bushfiva
9th Aug 2012, 10:07
Just a couple of blurs. Error level analysis shows everything was in the picture when it was taken, compression fingerprinting shows the S8100 and Photoshop CS3 (both match the EXIF info) and Photoshop save quality 12, which you can't get from the EXIF info.

SASless
9th Aug 2012, 12:20
All this saliva dripping over a single photograph of a purported Stealth Black Hawk.....and you British Military guys don't have the first ordinary Blackhawk in your inventory and are having to make do with geriatric Puma's still.

Lonewolf_50
9th Aug 2012, 12:52
Look at the rotor head, where the blades attach to the grips.

Square, with corners.

Not bloody likely.

Prop.

El Grifo
9th Aug 2012, 14:05
All this saliva dripping over a single photograph of a purported Stealth Black Hawk.....and you British Military guys don't have the first ordinary Blackhawk in your inventory and are having to make do with geriatric Puma's still.

Rippin the pish out of the picture more like :ok:

Gulfstreamaviator
9th Aug 2012, 14:42
If the battery has been removed, and clock not reset or set to different time zone then the time stamp will not be "correct"...

SpringHeeledJack
15th Aug 2012, 18:28
And if I'm not mistaken EXIF data can be changed/manipulated by certain programs.

JimNtexas
16th Aug 2012, 04:29
As others have noted, the nose is copied from an F-117.

I'm surprised that nobody here has noted that the F-117 air data probes have been turned in .303cal Browning Machine guns.

I'm sure that in the movie this helicopter strafes the bad guys using those Spitefire style Brownings.

teeteringhead
16th Aug 2012, 11:47
Post#46
I'm surprised that nobody here has noted that the F-117 air data probes have been turned in .303cal Browning Machine guns.

Post#12
No... I think an imaginative Hollywood type looked at the pitot/data sensor tubes on one of these puppies...
:ok:mnkmnkjkkj kjkjj kjjjijijiji

Milo Minderbinder
16th Aug 2012, 13:52
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t15/BlancoDiablo/DSCN1884.jpg


As I pointed out before, this original version is from
Code Name: Geronimo set pictures - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1323766_.html)