Does anyone have an idea on how the CAA is going to "brief" non uk examiner that need to perform flight test on UK EASA licence?

And specially the cost involved?

thx

Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost. The current fee for a non-UK authorised examiner to examine/instruct in the UK is £630

is that a yearly thing.

And does it apply to tests taken outside the UK?

Yes, it applies to tests taken outside the UK - it applies to any test where the competent authority of the applicant is different to the one that issued the examiner's certificate.

There is no periodicity stated for the briefing - the law states that the examiner shall not conduct the test unless he has informed competent authority of his intention and has receive a briefing. On the one hand, one might consider that once a briefing has been received, that part of the requirement has been met for all future cases; on the other hand, it might be interpreted as requiring a separate briefing for each occasion. How the UK CAA will interpret the requirement remains to be seen.

"Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost. The current fee for a non-UK authorised examiner to examine/instruct in the UK is £630"

Is this legal under European law? Its discriminatory.

At least, if it is online, they are not asking us to go to gatwick for a silly presentation.

Now if we have to pay 600 pounds, and if that goes for any other CAA. it's going to be expensive !

Indications are that it's going to be an on-line system but not sure of the cost.



Is this legal under European law?


As described by Billiebob, the system would indeed be illegal under European Law. It would violate at least three articles of the Treaty:


Article 26 (2) :
The internal market shall comprise an area without internal frontiers in which the free movement of goods, persons, services and capital is ensured in accordance with the provisions of the Treaties.


Article 34 :
Quantitative restrictions on imports and all measures having equivalent effect shall be prohibited between Member States.


relating mainly to the internal market and


Article 107 (2) :
Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between
Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.


which relates to competition law (Making foreign examiners pay when local examiners do not have to pay for a briefing is an illegal subsidy of UK examiners).

If you are a foreign examiner wishing to accomodate UK applicants (students at a UK CAA registered facility or training organisation) you should ask the UK CAA in writing

(a) What the precise cost would be
(b) What justifies this cost
(c) Whether the same cost applies to UK CAA designated examiners

Based on the answer, it is a violation of either internal market law or competition law

You can then make an official complaint to the relevant directorate at the European Commission and ask for a meeting with the relevant officials to see what their appetite is to take the UK CAA to court (which is by far the cheapest option);
or take the UK CAA directly to Court in Luxembourg. If you win your case convincingly, you also get awarded your legal costs (count on investing roughly £5,000-£10,000, depending on how much legal spadework you do yourself).

Because any EU citizen can take the UK CAA to court, and because the UK CAA cannot afford 20-odd law suits on this topic, I believe that

(a) the fee the CAA will charge will not be a recurrent fee, as it becomes much easier to demonstrate that it is an artificial trade barrier rather than a true briefing cost.

(b) the actual fee, when implemented, will likely be less than the current £630, because is will be more difficult to justify that it corresponds to the true cost of a briefing, especially if it is a mere online application, and that the costs are incurred in surplus of what they normally have to spend on briefing the existing UK CAA examiners.

the actual fee, when implemented, will likely be less than the current

£630, because is will be more difficult to justify that it corresponds to the
true cost of a briefing, especially if it is a mere online application, and that
the costs are incurred in surplus of what they normally have to spend on
briefing the existing UK CAA examiners.




Let's also be clear there is absolutely no comparison between the fees the CAA would charge a UK examiner and the "briefing" for a non-UK examiner. The content of the latter is restricted by Part FCL to "a briefing on the national administrative procedures, requirements for protection of personal data, liability, accident insurance and fees. "

The whole point of European standardisation under EASA is...errr...that European FCL is standardised. Whatever the CAA charge £630 for to a UK examiner will have been conducted by the NAA of another country for their own examiners in fulfilment of the Aircrew regulation. Thus the CAA briefing is restricted to the very narrow subject matter in the quote above.

brgds
421C

The last brief for UK Examiners was:
6. FLIGHT EXAMINER (PPL) STANDARDISATION SEMINAR
We have been notified of a one day Seminar for PPL(A) Flight Examiners to be held at Cranfield on the 28th October 2004. Although this is not a CAA requirement, it looks like a good opportunity for standardisation, to refresh Examiner techniques or to discuss changes to flight-testing procedures and it is intended that a CAA FE will be in attendance.And that was run by ETA, a private company!

421C's comments are spot on reference the scope of the briefing. When we first raised this with our authority they insisted that every non_UK examiner would have to be briefed at Gatwick. There was a portion of me that was hoping this would be carried out across Europe because I would have needed the 'grand tour' to visit the authorities that we examine for. I suspect that common sense will prevail in the end - the online system sounds sensible.

Cheers

TeeS

Likewise, we employ pilots from 8 countries currently as well as third party testing for another four or so. It would be expensive and a pain for me to go through the UKs proposed hoops for all of them!

Thing and I hate to say this but some of the none UK TRE are a hellva lot better than a home grown with the paper work.

The scandis are particularly good. In fact I would say they could brief the the front desk at the CAA