now folks, this is jetblast, so let it all hang out

here comes the judge, here comes the judge...sockitome

Something to do with landing left or right of centerline?

Reaching for a bucket of popcorn......

GF

Reaching for a bucket of popcorn......

And I have my box of peanut M&M's.







Now watch....the action drama trailer in theater Jet Blast drew a small audience because the REAL actors--er, pilots, were actually in Rumours & News. :p ;)

Seriously, having just gone thru the MODULAR thread, the difference seems to be British pilots are good at taking tests about flying planes and we Americans are good at actually flying them.

That'll get out of R&N.......

Reaches for Kevlar blanket,

GF

Six days of formal exams in the UK, as opposed to six hours in the US - only one of which was needed to finish my ATP.

good one galaxy!

British - "Flack impact skipper...port wing lower...measures....about one foot square...I am observing petrol leakage."

American - "There's a hole as big as my dick in the left wing!"

Loose rivets

Six HOURS! Did you check your answers multiple times or something? I joke, but do have loads of respect for the British flyers. They've done real well using our invention.

GF

Naughty boy. Go back and read to the end of the post.

GF
The Wrights used a launching rail for their 1903 flights and a launch catapult for their 1904 and 1905 machines, while the aircraft of Santos-Dumont and other Europeans had wheeled undercarriages. The Wright Brothers continued to use skids, which necessitated the use of a dolly running on a track. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale, founded in France in 1905 to verify aviation records, stated among its rules that an aircraft should be able to take off under its own power in order to qualify for a record. Supporters of Santos-Dumont maintain that this means the 14-bis was, technically, the first successful fixed-wing aircraft.


Which one was "first" or "more practical" is a matter of how those words are defined. No one could contest that the Wrights flew first or that Santos-Dumont took off on wheels before the Wrights, and earned a variety of prizes and official records in France.

à la votre:ok:

"Flack impact skipper.

Hy Slash, that's flak ( acronym from the German FLiegerAbwehrKanone ( anti-aircraft gun ))

Don't know about other countries, but in the UK a "flack" is a PR person/journalist putting out drivel to promote something.

Were you really in 'Nam or is that just a little town on the Murrumbegee River ? Your given age suggests the latter :}

The answer's obvious, isn't it? American pilots have bigger watches.






(or they say they have ;))

Yeh should've been "flak" sorry. Must've been a Roberta Flack freudian since I
liked her tits a lot.

I was in Nam a number of years - Ha Noi and Sai Gon. Only been once to the
Murrumbitchy to do some roo and rabb culling during my youth from a beatup
old Vauxhall ute on Dalgety acreage.

Differences? Well I have always admired the brand of humour (sorry humor) shown by American pilots ...

Middle of the Atlantic westbound in a classic 747. There is a PAN call on 121.5from a MAC freighter with a problem. We call him up to be told they have lost one engine and another is about to fail.
Our skipper having relayed the PAN asks in his very English accent 'Can we be of any further help'
'Sure buddy, would ya care to swop airplanes?' comes the reply :)

vercentorix...

taking off under own power...that was the wright's at kill devil hill...

could santos dumont have taken off from the sand with tires?

The wrights made CONTROLLED flight possible...get over santos dumont and the rest.

Using a Catapult was an expedient to making a longer track...and I suppose you would not consider an F18 hornet taking off from USS nimitz an airplane?

Yup, the WRIGHTS, two bland white guys from Dayton, OHIO, USA invented the plane....get over it

Yup, the WRIGHTS, two bland white guys from Dayton, OHIO, USA invented the plane....get over it
I think you may be ignoring George Cayley there. Not from Dayton Ohio or France.

English language...........

Slang on RT to replace ICAO.

glf

Ah but Sir George isn't American so he won't count if you're a cousin.

That's easy.

British pilots get paid real money, and have pensions.

(With apols to BMI folk shafted by their owners)

Doing Daventry sector many moons ago.....happily working away, I became aware of the increasing discomfort of the military controller sitting to my right who was attempting to provide a service to a USAF aircraft. Suddenly he tore off his headset, shouting "f*****g Yanks! Living proof the indians f****d buffalos!"

Just saying.

I never had too much problem with them.....except when trying to get them to read back routeings.....their habit of pronouncing St Abbs as "Stabs" or Strumble as "St Rumble" charmed me somewhat, and getting them to read back DIKAS, at all, always amused.

I was sitting in the waiting room at the CAA in Redhill, waiting to take my AMEL essay paper. There were some pilots waiting to take "Performance A". An American pilot with a full FAA ATPL was slagging off the system - he had held his twin turboprop licence for four years and why did he need to sit a stupid written just to be able to fly his aircraft in UK on aerial work? After a few remarks from the Brit pilots he let slip that this was his third resit! :D

Loki

Now, that's funny. Do try not to lump USAF pilots as representing all US pilots; they're learning. I was one, once.

GF

Blacksheep,

You have to remember we in the West have never seen a Cereal Bowl Compass and thus had no need to know all about the inter-workings of such things. As Pilots we do not need to know all about valve overlap on internal combustion engines....we are quite happy just to know how to operate them. When it comes to hydraulics....few of us have even seen a Lancaster Bomber much less its landing gear plumbing. When it comes to Maps and Charts....we care less about the derivation of them and simply want to know if they are the most current issue for the area we are flying in.

I did the UK paper dance and only had to do it the one time....but found it an absolute load of bollocks, far too anal, did not make anyone a better Pilot, and cost shed loads of money unnecessarily.

The difference between the two systems is simple....we test to ensure the candidate knows what he needs to know to function within the system and do so safely. The CAA tests to see how good a memory one has for trivia after doing what the FAA does. Our system works on building blocks....each higher License tests for information unique to that level of license and assumes the previous material having been tested for remains valid.

Our Check Ride system is much tougher than the CAA system. The Oral Examination prior to a Checkride can take hours before even beginning the Flight portion.

Basically different systems have different methods....the question we have to answer is if we are having to spend good money for bad reasons. I submit to you the CAA system is a huge waste of our money. I suppose it goes to support the subsidized lunches in the Staff Canteen or something.

Study after Study show the accident rates for both regimes....CAA and FAA are the same with perhaps a shade bit of advantage to the FAA numbers.

So....say what you want....but we know the empty drum makes the most noise.



Galaxy Flyer,

In the Helicopter Industry....the saying was....."Teach a Brit to fly today....and Tomorrow he will be telling you how to do it!"

(With apols to BMI folk shafted by their owners)

Don't forget Courtline, Laker, to mention but two more.

Sounds a bit like our car driving test.

You learn how to drive to pass the test, then you just learn how to drive.

Huh, the accent? :E

More generally, you wouldn't find an American standing on a airport concourse, calling London Control for the tail number of the passing C-5, as happened to me once. We were level at F330, at the time, spotter at LGW. Or camping out in rainy MLD, noting down tail numbers and destinations of departures.

GF

In my experience, which includes certifying Tornados for air refueling with KC-135s at Cottesmore, combat refuelings of Brits during GW1 and Kosovo, and many TDY's, mostly to Mildenhall, Brit military pilots are in general highly professional aviators, solid on procedures, and a credit to their service.

Also, you seldom hear a Speedbird flub his ATC transmissions when in US airspace.

I have no criticism of Brit pilots to offer. They're solid and professional so far as I can tell.

If I'm travelling with my family on a long international flight, however, I'd just as soon do it on a major US carrier. I have warm and fuzzy trust there.

The NY Airbus (or Airsub as it turned out) skipper who dropped his aircraft in the Hudson was lauded as a hero and quite rightly so. Well done to you sir and your team !

The BA chap who inaugurated the Heathrow Gliding Club with 30 seconds warning that his aircraft was to become a feature on the roundabout at Hatton Cross, did everything right as did his SFO. Well done chaps ! Our subsequent treatment of them was shameful compared to how the Americans dealt with their people.

British Aviator

One uses the cheese knife when presented with the cheese board

American Aviator

One thinks cutting the cheese is slang for flatulence and thinks there should be fries with that :E

Perhaps one of the differences between us is you Brits just cannot understand Americans way of being Sarcastic. Borrowing from a British Professor of some sort who has studied the topic.....


Perhaps we misinterpret this because in our arrogance we Brits don’t expect sarcasm from Americans without all the attendant cues, bells and whistles.


About this time in these threads I have to throw out the old time favorite of mine....where it originates I don't know but to me it is the essence of the difference between the Britis and Yanks.

Yanks in the Brit's eyes...Over paid, over sexed, and over here.

Brits in the Yank's eyes....Under paid, under sexed, and under Eisenhower.

and getting them to read back DIKAS, at all, always amused.

Guilty as charged....i told myself not to say Dickass (instead of Deekas) about three times but when the appointed time came, i ended up buying the first round at the pub that evening.

To paraphrase Samuel Johnson ; the amazing thing about American humour is not that it is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all.

Hilarious, Lon.

Just like our common but separate language, tween the American sarcasm and the British irony, never do they meet. :p

LOKI Pronunciations....

I used to get my own back by insisting that I was passing Norritch, not Nor-witch as we passed Norwich en route to Idlewild. ( is Norwich still a reporting point ? )

Helping with an aero club rally at my home in New Zealand I marshalled a C-172 into position being flown by two American pilots, and asked if they had landed at Kaikohe ?

After a short pause, the handling pilot told me that they had arranged a pact before starting the rally - i.e. the pilot who could pronounce the name of the next airfield to be visited got to do the landing !

Something to do with landing left or right of centerline?

Doesn't this depend on which seat you're sitting in?

And that would be centreline.

Can't say about Norritch, but Idlewild is gone. :}:}

Yes, yes, we're dating ourselves.

GF

but Idlewild is gone.



It is! My God, what happened to it? :ooh:












:p

I wish the airport located there was gone, tickets say EK flight leaves from the swampy dump there on Thursday for a ME locale.

GF

..but Idlewild is gone.
It is! My God, what happened to it?

Well, Canaveral came back. :p

If the thread has turned to missing airports, where did Mirabel go?

GF :cool:

Wherever it went, good riddance. They did name the wrong one for Trudeau. His name should have been associated for the ages with that pile of concrete.

Better yet, Cartierville airport, now a golf course.

GF

Sasless said, I did the UK paper dance and only had to do it the one time....

Knowing what the employment situation was for helicopter pilots in the United States at the time the other alternative was to flip burgers.

Flew with both, british and american pilots in my career.
American pilots I flew with were extremely friendly, but I really could feel they thought more or less nicely they were the center of the world, anything that could happen to them would prove how great they are, even mistakes that are just an opportunity to learn (what is true in some ways, but this tendency to turn everything the good side always...), British pilots I flew with were more quiet, and in some ways more knowledgable, but this is true that in Europe we really have to learn more, that's not a legend.
With both, british and american, I had great times and pleasure to fly, but once: I had to ferry a plane one day with an american. It was a small airplane, twin turboprop. We were in Russia, where the trip began for him (not for me, I started the ferry from China with a chinese copilot who couldn't go to the US). The guy was great, but when we arrived to the airplane after a nice diner and one night in the city hotel, he asked me to do some touch and go first in order for me to release him left seat (captain), so that I would do the ferry as his copilot. It just didn't sound right, checking out somebody to be his F/O, it was a kind of an ego thing I guess, very weird. Anyway we had time and fuel constraint, I politely told him that I was not paid to be a flight instructor on this flight, touch and goes were not part of the flight plan, and I was just paid to do this ferry, with his precious help (I never understood why they did send somebody with no experience on type, no knowledge of the airplane and the emergency procedures, maybe a friend of a friend who wanted a free and paid check out and experience), but he got a bit angry and didn't really do anything until we landed in the US after a few days. Interesting... This only comes from my limited experience, any kind of pilot in each countries, great ones everywhere.
I flew with spanish pilots, Italians, chinese, french obviously, south african, canadian, and many others, but it would be off topic...

Reporting points along G1 according to the 'Murricans were Waddely, Bree-con and St. Rumble. (WOD, BCN STU)

FED,

I did not work as a pilot in the USA until years after i got my UK License....and did so at quite good wages....for helicopter pilots anyway. Then at first chance went back overseas....as I have a huge urge not to pay taxes. That is what allowed me to retire when I did rather than still slaving away in a 206 somewhere in the GOM.

I posted before about taking up Transcontinental Truck Driving and making a better living than working in the GOM. The view was just as good...the accommodation was as good or better, the hours about the same, and I was my own Boss which was a mixed blessing. The enjoyment of seeing the country from one end to another in five days is hard to put a dollar price on....the sheer misery of doing it week after week is about the same as flogging out to the the rigs....once you have seen the sights on the first run....they all look alike the second and subsequent trip.

Hauling Bulldozers in the mountains of Pennsylvania and West Virginia had as much excitement as some nights on the North Sea for sure.

I wonder how many British Captains would divert their careers to trucking if the Money was right?

British Captains would divert their careers to trucking

Suprisingly we did have one. He joined Bristow in 1978 as a direct entry captain from the Royal Air Force. We thought he was a bit strange in the Air Force but after six months or so he threw it in, got his HGV licence, and drove for a company for a couple of years before buying his own rig.
When he was in Aberdeen he used to come to Bristows and have a chat; never flew again.

Only British pilots seem to be able to say....

"You're on Guard!!"

(in fact, I'm sure it's always the same bloke - who seems to fly 24hrs a day)

6

The one guy says "Hey buddy what the hell you doing"...


The other one says (after a terrible IFR rating renewal as you sit sweating in your cocoon and, having given up, point out the Nissan huts at Biggin Hill and in a moment of insouciance talk to the sky God about ghosts and he opines about them being "Germans mostly, I hope".

And then he passes you!

Caco

I'm a US pilot. way back thirty years ago I was flight instructing and a british tourist came up... was a pilot from England and wanted to go flying over San Francisco. Fine...he actually was a flight instructor too had lots of time in a PA38 tomahawk. boy was he rough on the controls, gunning the engine like a spitfire pilot going up to handle some JU88's...wasted a huge amount of runway and never did quite find the centerline.

yup...there is your british pilot for you.

as to the ferry pilot...yup, you got a bozo...but he wanted some PIC time...what kind of turboprop was it? just curious.

U.S. pilots need to be coached on the importance of using stardard ICAO phraseology, especially when operating outside the U.S.

British pilots need to be coached that hour-long approach briefings aren't necessary, using the phrase "my command" impresses no-one, and carrying a card that refers to themselves as "International Captain" is super uber-dweeby.

When I was a 747 FO I flew with both - you got your good ones and bad ones
like any other, but overall found the Americans had a more easygoing cockpit
without all the bullshit. I found too the older ex-BOAC blokes were quite less
uptight than the relatively younger BA crop back then. Strangely enough they
felt just as comfortable with 1200hr (ex-SO) local kiddies in the RHS as they
did with 5000hr expats.

Can't say about Norritch, but Idlewild is gone. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

Yes, yes, we're dating ourselves.




Was flying out of Idlewild on 1st Jan. 1964 (?) when they changed it to Kennedy - lot of confusion - we tried to keep it to Kennedy but old habits die hard.

American/British. Flying into Idlewild/Kennedy from Deer park, I was offered a visual to 22L, number 2 to the Clipper 1 ahead. ( PanAm for our junior readers ) did I have the Clipper in sight? Yes. Eventually I decided that following the Clipper was going to take me to somewhere near San Francisco as he maintained a solid track over Manhattan, so asked if I could join straight in from my present position, as I had the runway in sight and was about to pass through the centreline. Cleared to land. A few minutes later Clipper 1 ...." Er.. Er.. Kennedy Tower, can we have vectors to 22L pls."

I'd made the mistake of assuming that the mighty PanAm might know their own home, so just followed them until I realised that they didn't !!

It might have been a West Coast based crew of course, but I enjoyed that !!

Exspd

Doing sim training last week, approaches to KJFK 22L. I always remember a Speedbird Concorde crew, in the JFK crew room, asking why the CAT III approach was installed on the SHORTEST runway. Too true. We used to pickup "the Boss" at the Concorde, on the BA ramp. Passports were done at the jet ridge, we escorted him down stairs to the waiting plane for lunch at MVY.

GF

PS: I believe Clipper One was the westbound around-the-world daily flight, Two did it east bound.

PS: I believe Clipper One was the westbound around-the-world daily flight, Two did it east bound.


Yes, I think you're right.

Off topic I'm afraid, but ... as a young sprog trainee BOAC navigator I recall staying at the PanAm crew resthouse in Trinidad - before the Upside Down Hilton was built -and looking in awe at the PanAm SkyGods in their white topped uniform caps.

Years later I was a 747 instructor for a South-East Asian airline of good repute, and had an ex-PanAm skipper under supervision following the demise of PanAm. As we roared down the runway I said that I bet that the passengers didn't know that they were sat behind The World's Most Experienced - the PanAm slogan of the day, and The World's Favourite - the B.A. slogan of the day. After a short pause he hollered in best Texan Rodeo Fashion .. Gee !! You're right, buddy. V.1, Rotate.

Just visited the re-opened Museum of Flight at Santa Monica Airport, despite it being a tribute to Douglas aircraft, the major exhibit is a FedEx Boeing 727 cockpit protruding out of the front wall. Anyone can sit in the left hand seat and re-live a few years, and apart from a serious lack of one engine, it was just like the 707 of Yore that I was so familiar with.

Happy Days.

P.s. Bought a bumper sticker from the Museum that reads " I LOVE the noise that aeroplanes make !! " but in veiw of the present political scene regarding the closure of Santa Monica, I'm not displaying it on any vehicle I have access to around here - would probably get a brick through the windscreen !

Departing an offshore platform in a Bell 212....British Captain..."Committed!".....American Captain...."We're outta here!"!

Then there was the seven minutes worth of checklists to be done...."After Takeoff, Level Off, Descent, Approach, Pre-landing, and Finals....all on a 4-5 minute leg with a max height of 500-1000 feet.

The Brits do like their rituals!

The Brits do like their rituals!


And being like that now with a checklist, can you even begin to imagine how long and complicated it must've been for them to sacrifice a virgin at Stonehenge? No wonder it was a calender that measured in seasons.

Our Check Ride system is much tougher than the CAA system. The Oral Examination prior to a Checkride can take hours before even beginning the Flight portion.

I hold a total of nine (9) ATPL's from various countries, three from Europe, and will vouch for the above statement. The FAA written test is merely a gate you must pass through, in order to qualify for the Olympic event.

My initial DC-8 captain checkride oral at United many years ago lasted three hours, I remember specifically one question from the grizzled old shit, how many volts is the cockpit crash-axe certified for?

Then came the sim, Crikey! Denver hot and high, two engines gone on one side, you all know how that goes.

Thankfully survived, still here, happily chucking computerized metal through the skies.

Do like the Brit pilots though, that dry gallows humor will get you through most emergencies without drama of any kind.

And lots of whisky afterwards too.

I did my DC-8 captain checkout at United, too. I think I had the same old grizzed FAA oral guy. Explained every light and button indication and function, operated the levered fuel panel and pressurization system, talked him through manual gear lowering and fuel dumping - most comprehensive oral I ever had.

I was briefed beforehand, though, and knew what to expect - that I had better know my systems or it would go badly. Looking back, as a result, I probably knew the DC-8 better than anything I flew before or since.

By the way, I loved that beast. You could slam it on the runway with no complaint from the airframe. Built like a tank.

Yes indeed, brick shithouse of the first order, if you knew her, she would get you there safely. If you didn't, the bite was very painful.

Common knowledge though, once you had the DC-8 under your fingers, the other airplanes were just fluff. My kid sister could fly a Boeing, with a little coaching. :)

I think the DC8-73 was the finest airplane ever built so far. Long body, long wing, CFMs, four of 'em.

All 8s had those chromed throttles that would align EPRs inches apart. I flew 707s in the Reserves at the same time (tankers with CFM-56s). The 707 was a bit more refined, but in the clinches I'd go for the 8.

Both of them were sweet to fly and land, but the 8 was the warrior. It took a little longer to figure out the 8, but once you did, she was your buddy. Just get and keep those old Sperry crosshairs aligned and you had nothing to worry about.

Heard in the cockpit as we somehow had manged to arrive at a rather critical point in a pratice engines off autorotative landing one night at Teeside in the mist, gloom, and dark.....with both engines at Idle detent.....from the Check Captain....."Dear me! The Ops Manager is going to be rather cross I should think!".

I grabbed a double hand full of throttles...rolled them full open....and managed to get the ol' darling level and as the Main Rotor returned to almost normal...(well normal enough) and we very ever so lightly touched down for a moment....after a bit of pregnant silence was heard...."Fancy a Pint, Mate?"!

Best all round guy I ever flew with that Gentleman....who should have been a Stand Up Comedian as he was extraordinarily funny. Always a pleasure to fly with....best example of a real RAF pilot I ever met.

American Top Gun fighter pilot academy set up by British - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/5032158/American-Top-Gun-fighter-pilot-academy-set-up-by-British.html)

'nuff said.

:ok:

not much difference really as there exists only three types of pilots...barnstormers, crazies, and fools...bu the common thread that ties them together is ALL pilots talk lotsa horse hooey...:}

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/5032158/American-Top-Gun-fighter-pilot-academy-set-up-by-British.html)American Top Gun fighter pilot academy set up by British -
Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/5032158/American-Top-Gun-fighter-pilot-academy-set-up-by-British.html)

'nuff said. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/5032158/American-Top-Gun-fighter-pilot-academy-set-up-by-British.html)


Oh, not that myth again. S'cuse me while I :yuk:

Kudos to the guys who love the douglas!

I never flew the 8, but the 9 was great, very fine plane. Strong roots from the DC3 and more.

That's another thing about British pilots...they all seem to fly American airplanes!
Even the Queen was saluted with a C47 (which the Brits call: Dakota).

Another thing about the 8 was that you had no drag. No inflight spoilers, and you didn't want to use the inflight thrust reversers. So you thought 4 to 1 rather than 3 to 1 for the descent. I think that also made you a better planner and pilot.

In addition, DC-8 PFEs are the best people you're ever going to meet IMHO.

and the DC8 was the first civilian plane to go supersonic.

A bit of snow around and British pilots stop flying (Ok so thats really comparing British airports to USA ones!)

I don't know about US vs UK but...

when I started being SLF in DC3's & DC4's courtesy of Avensa, LAV & Pan Am, captains were serious, calm, grey-haired men with a natural aura of complete authority, co-pilots were just slightly younger (not so much grey hair) versions of the captains & F/E were studious, thoughtful men, usually sucking on unlit smoking-pipes.

Now it seems like the airlines have got rid of all them and their replacements are all kids, AND they don't even have a watchful F/E keeping them in line. Not only that I swear on the last flight the "captain speaking" was actually the stewardess reading from notes.

Not only that, where'd all the propellors go to?

PukinDog
Not a myth, fact.
also in conversation with a Nam heli pilot who flew with the Australians as to why your chaps were always getting hit by the Cong he said it was rather than fly over the trees your chaps actually flew over the river 'cos it was easier to navigate!!

Now go check your facts, little sunshine.:ok:

A bit of snow around and British pilots stop flying

Now, now := You should know by now that the UK transportation network always suffers from the, "wrong type of snow".

Vercs,

Absolute Horse Shit!

Two tours there flying helicopters...and got shot doing the job.

So...with the greatest of confidence based upon about 1200 hours flying time in the 15 months I was there....in two different units in two very different parts of the country...having flown over 3/4ths of the place doing just about every kind of mission the Army did with the helicopter....your comment is so wrong it begs a rude response.

I flew support missions for the Aussies....and if you do a map recce of their Area of Operations....you will see they operated in a very small area of the country. They were great Soldiers and were a pleasure to work with....party with....and have fighting alongside you.

So please....when you know what you are talking about....speak up.....but re this topic you should simply keep your mouth shut and be thought a Fool.

and the DC8 was the first civilian plane to go supersonic.

I got my FE written on the DC8 but didn't know it had ever flown supersonic. On purpose?

From Wiki:-On 21 August 1961 a Douglas DC-8 broke the sound barrier at Mach 1.012 (660 mph/1,062 km/h) while in a controlled dive through 41,000 feet (12,497 m) and maintained that speed, for 16 seconds.
The flight was to collect data on a new leading-edge design for the wing, and while doing so, this DC-8 became the first civilian jet to make a supersonic flight.
The aircraft, crewed by Captain William Magruder, First Officer Paul Patten, Flight Engineer Joseph Tomich and Flight Test Engineer Richard Edwards, took off from Edwards Air Force Base in California, and was accompanied to altitude by an F-104 flown by Chuck Yeager.
The aircraft was a DC-8-43 later delivered to Canadian Pacific Air Lines as CF-CPG.

...the DC8 was the first civilian plane to go supersonic.


They figured that one out when the wallpaper began coming off the captain's hat.


Credit to Spike Milligna for that one.

bubbers 44 and others...YUP....they planned the mission, took her supersonic as the above person has posted.

They were so sure everything would be fine, they took some letters along on the flight signed by Donald Douglas stating it was the first civilian airliner to break the sound barrier.

You can even find copies of the letter on line...Douglas also took out ads in popular magazines of the time saying what they had done.

Douglas...just great...first planes around the world. DC3 saved England, DC everything was just great as long as it was Douglas.

Loved em.

What was it that Eisenhower said that won the war for the Allies? A truck, some kind of gun and the DC-3. (C-47/Dakota)

I'm just proud that of all the aircraft my father flew that I as least got to fly one of them, the DC-3.

I can remember hearing my father saying that when there are men on the moon, the DC-3 would still be flying. How true that turned out to be.

Americans secretly suffer from a collective inferiority complex. Americans seem to have this need to tout themselves as bigger, better, faster and the only ones on the planet with any brains, ability, talent or skills. There is an ingrained tendency to minimize the attributes of non-Americans in order to ensure that Americans always appear to be superior to everyone else.

Brits don't.

Oh the irony :-P

Lord Spandex

Tend to agree with you on that one and I have a positive view of the US
and it's people.


Although in my current dealings with US companies - two in particular,
all I can say is what a cluster f in terms of being able to plan and get
stuff produced - as well as lying through their teeth !

They say the US economy is going bad yet I can't seem to get stuff made
and have orders coming out of my xxxx that they can't produce !!!

And one of the guys is an Ex US Army Sgt who should know better.

Someone is perpetuating a myth here it seems.

Perhaps we should debunk a few.

Debunking Stereotypes About The British | Camels With Hammers (http://freethoughtblogs.com/camelswithhammers/2012/04/23/debunking-stereotypes-about-the-british/)

Lord Spandex Masher,

How'd you get it so wrong. The biggest problem with Americans is complacency. We think that because we invented, implemented and are the largest users of the world's airspace, that we know what's best and what we decide is the way it will be.

I applaud your future efforts to construct the next, better system.

Lord Spandex Masher...

it ain't braggin' if its the truth.

#
"Four things won the Second World War, the bazooka, the Jeep, the atom bomb,
and the C-47 Gooney Bird" - Dwight D. Eisenhower.
#

seven

"it ain't braggin' if its the truth."


We can add that the US also have a great sense of humour :O

LSM...
Americans secretly suffer from a collective inferiority complex. Americans seem to have this need to tout themselves as bigger, better, faster and the only ones on the planet with any brains, ability, talent or skills. There is an ingrained tendency to minimize the attributes of non-Americans in order to ensure that Americans always appear to be superior to everyone else.

Brits don't. 9th Aug 2012 16:26

Are you kidding me? I get reminded of the GB superiority all the time without coming close to any boasting of our own. When I press my dear British friends, they admit it is their way to whinge against the cousins by any means (wink-wink) possible, as a jest. In the end, both sides have admitted strengths, admiration & mutual respect. Get on board.

If your preference is to wind up, as part of your national past time, have fun. :ok:;)

Both nations have equal bragging rights and never fail to do so. :p

PukinDog
Not a myth, fact.

Now go check your facts, little sunshine


Princess, I don't need to check a thing on the subject, and my time spend in was a hell of a lot closer to when your hero later claimed he was re-writing the book for naval aviators than the present. A self-promoter trying to burnish his own legacy with his folks back home 35+ years later does not history make, although it does make for a good chuckle.

I think the P51 mustang had a big influence at the end of the war with its range to escort bombers to and from their targets deep into Germany. The earlier fighters, spitfires, etc. couldn't. Our bomber losses dropped dramatically. I was fortunate to have a few flights in the P51 in the 70's. What a wonderful aircraft.

Next month I get to go to Reno and hopefully watch my favorite P51 win three years in a row by the son of the well known Air Race pilot and movie pilot Steven Hinton who I had the pleasure of putting through his instrument rating at Chino, Ca. His son goes by Stevo flyin a P51 called Strega. His son has the same ace type talent as his dad. Never flew with anybody better including myself. We built and ferried a ton of P51's over to Europe to finish the war.

LSM

Americans secretly suffer from a collective inferiority complex. Americans seem to have this need to tout themselves as bigger, better, faster and the only ones on the planet with any brains, ability, talent or skills. There is an ingrained tendency to minimize the attributes of non-Americans in order to ensure that Americans always appear to be superior to everyone else.

Brits don't.


You owe me $1.50. That's the appx cost of how much fuel my guzzler used earlier when I drove to Best Buy to replace the keyboard I ruined spitting out coffee through my nose when first I read this.

However, I'll cover the cost of the keyboard since even our low-end models probably have more features than you're used to having or being available, and anyway, you'll need that money to give to your government so you can watch "free" TV and see the final Olympic medal count.

Ah yes....the Spitfire did it over London....the Mustang did it over Berlin.

The Brits did it under Montgomery....Montgomery did it under Eisenhower.

...the DC-3 would still be flying.

It also saw out the Concorde and Space Shuttle too Con. I don't think too many other working aircraft could boast that.

The Brits did it under Montgomery....Montgomery did it under Eisenhower.

Ah, Monty, the saviour who brought to order American blundering at the Battle of the Bulge, and saved the day for the Allies at every turn. Check for yourself, there's undoubtedly numerous BBC specials and Telegraph articles about that very thing.

Brits don't.

Ah yes, never let it be said that some of the British are not conceited and arrogant. When they actually have no right to be. :p

As the statement of "Brits don't" following the rant against Americans, is the height of arrogance.

Sorry, but jealousy just does not suit you. :E

As Winston Churchill once said of Montgomery.....


"In defeat, unbeatable; in victory, unbearable." and "Indomitable in retreat, invincible in advance, insufferable in victory."

Ike's comment to Monty was great...."Monty....you can't talk to me that way....I'm your Boss!".

That must have been a Kodak moment!

If he said that, I'll eat my beret . . . with both its badges.


Remember, he was a Viscount, had to be Darting about during the war.

I think the P51 mustang had a big influence at the end of the war

Indeed it did after it received a decent engine.

;)

Remember, he was a Viscount, had to be Darting about during the war.

He was ennobled in Jan 1946.

Loose Rivets

It's OK, some of us got it.

The P51 would have still been droning around with an Allison if the Build Up and Servicing Unit at Warton, England, had not experimented by fitting one with a Merlin engine in order to try to correct its dismal performance as a fighter.

North American only built the Mustang because they got a contract from the British Purchasing Commission. The USAAF were more than happy with the Curtis P40 and only ordered Mustangs for assessment. Whe the British found that the Merlin transformed the aircraft they sent an example back to the States.

The rest is history.

Fareastdriver

The USAAF were more than happy with the Curtis P40 and only ordered Mustangs for assessment. Whe the British found that the Merlin transformed the aircraft they sent an example back to the States.


The USAAF was so "more than happy" with the P-40 they built 16,000 P-47s and 10,000 P-38s due to a clerical error.

The P51 was a very able aircraft from the outset, no matter which engine it was fitted with. It did everything it was bought for competently, and was an excellent ground attack machine. The Merlin transformed it into something wonderful.

Pukin dog...good of you to point out that the mustang had the thunderbolt and lightning to help it out.

but don't forget that the MARTLET (also known as the F4F wildcat) helped out the fleet air arm (royal navy)

and that the F6f
and the F4U were not too bad.

Oh, and it was a PBY Catalina of Coastal Command, illegally being flown by a US NAVY Ensign that spotted the BISMARK.

I would add that the maximum performance of the spitfire and its engine were achieved with 150 octane gasoline from the USA.

I would also point out that the RAF used the P40 warhawk and tomahawk quite a bit.

but someone remind me....other than a handful of spitfires for evaluation, the USAAF didn't seem to use too many British types...or did they?

Oh, and it was a PBY Catalina of Coastal Command, illegally being flown by a US NAVY Ensign that spotted the BISMARK.


Of course Bismark was only spotted once and hadn't been engaged and damaged before it was spotted by the US NAVY!

Thank you for proving my point.

we weren't in the war at that point spandex. it was a coastal command plane (you know, Brits)...but the plane was built in the USA and being flown by a US pilot...odd circumstances.

it was when the bismark had been damaged and was heading for brest.

sevenstrokeroll: The USAAF flew Spitfires extensively in the Mediterranean (North Africa and Italy). They also flew Beaufighters as night fighters in Europe as well as in the Pacific. Post war, the USAF flew Canberras.

Fellas....please! The Brits very kindly shared the Whittle Jet Engine with us too.....along with the Russians!

Was it Radar or Sonar that we shared with the Brits?

For sure we shared rifles, ammo, tanks, jeeps, machine guns, fuel, and of course a minor thing called food.

We should remember the Americans flew some squadrons of Spits and Hurri's in the RAF before the USA entered the war. How many Americans flew in the RCAF for Bomber Command? A neighbor of mine did so....and was in combat before we entered the war.

We also have shared cemeteries full of our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines too.

Likewise....there's some British Sailors buried here near me...at a couple of places called Ocracoke and Buxton.

The key is we fought alongside one another against a common enemy just as we are doing today.

But no sense in having some fun taking the piss out the Brits as the reaction we get is so much fun to see!

Well, I have an American friend who writes aviation books. He says the difference is that the Brits give him more facts, the Septics tend to over embellish their acheivements.

I flew nearly continuously from 1960 to 2008. I spent the first eighteen years being funded by Her Majesty with both fixed wing and rotary to travel the World from California, Africa Middle and Far East, the Indian sub-Continent and Australia. During that time I flew with national military pilots often in their own aircraft. My subsequent civil life saw me encompass more of the world including China and the South Pacific.

During that time I shared the cockpit with Norwegians, Danes, Germans, Dutch. Irish, French, Italians, Arabs, Africans, Pakistanies, Indians, Malayasians(Chinese,Indians and Malay), Chinese, Kiwis and various ethnic origins of Australians. A high proportion of them that I flew with were Americans and they, like all the other nationalities that I flew with did their job, seemed to enjoy it, and like me, never slagged off anybody else.

Sasless and myself might like to draw a line about one country.

"For sure we shared rifles, ammo, tanks, jeeps, machine guns, fuel, and of course a minor thing called food."

My grand mother, a very British lady often used to say that
the convoys from the US saved the UK during the war.

I can see how one might have that perception as we have so many achievements to talk about.

I have flown with a fair number of pilots from different countries....some good, some not so good, some really bad...with nationality not being the dividing line.

Source of training and individual ability were the major filters....with personality and attitude being the final factor.

There were some I would never be seen with outside the cockpit...some I cherish as friends yet today.

In the helicopter world....and sticking to the thread title....I found the British pilots to be very good in the parts of the industry they had lots of experience with...they were limited in their ability to seek non-British solutions and applications and certainly thought the CAA Licensing system to make them superior to the rest of the world. They were quite wrong in that thinking.

The CAA system is too expensive, too bureaucratic, overly pedantic, and by sheer costs makes the acquisition of a License extremely expensive which then limits access to those that have plenty of money or who are willing to go very deep into debt. The FAA system is much cheaper and thus allows for a wider array of people to get involved in aviation.

I count at least 24 different nationalities I have flown with and at least a dozen military forces being amongst that number. I have learned from most as there is more than one right answer sometimes. I learned to fly helicopters in the US Army and thought I knew how to fly them. Once exposed to some other folks I realized the Army had done a good job...but it was but one school of thought which worked its purpose but did not necessarily have all the right answers. I drew from the good, tolerated the not so good, and avoided the wrong answers. Incorporating what I learned from others sometimes caused problems when I encountered those that thought they were the Bee's Knees and had no need to listen to anything other than their closely held views.

My early days flying Chinooks in a unit filled with Old Farts taught me to be a sponge....in learning from those with good experience. I did that my entire career.

For the willfully ignorant who believe that the mighty USA didn't operate UK aircraft (except for evaluation). http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2730/xbeaufighterusaaf05.jpg http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/354/spitfiremkv82fs8afsuaaf.jpg

HAH! They had 'em, just couldn't fly 'em. ;)

American pilots....Royal Air Force....odd combination but I guess the RAF needed some leavening!

Battle of Britain American Pilots (http://www.taphilo.com/history/wwii/BofBamericanpilots.shtml)


Eagle Squadrons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Squadrons)

The CAA system is too expensive, too bureaucratic, overly pedantic,

You have obviously never had to get a Chinese licence.

Indeed it did after it received a decent engine.


Teamwork. :ok:

A banned pprooner wrote an excellent book on Beaufighters in US service. Google "Beaufighters in the Night".

Yes he did, forgot about that. A great loss of a very knowledgeable, talented and well educated person from this site.

For no good reason as well.....

For the last 40 years, I have been signing Tech Logs off on aircaft flown by male and female crews from many nationalities. From my point of view, the difference between US and UK pilots is the accent.
During my short career in aviation there have been a number of somewhat difficult circumstances where I have been very grateful for the presence of a crew who knew exactly what was required of them and their nationality was the last thing on my mind. I was more interested in their ability to do their job and work as part of the team.
I have had the pleasure of working with both good and bad pilots from both countries in many locations around the world. The bad ones do not always get found out irrespective of their nationality and capability.
It is a shame that once again, a thread has developed into willy waving contest with very little to do about the original subject.

A simple "buddy what the hell do you think you are doing" in contrast to that BOAC sky god thing. All relevant and to be emulated cos the good pilots have so much to teach you!

Caco

I hold British, Australian & US nationalities so I must be a bloody amazing pilot. Or bloody awful.

+1

A pilot is no different from anyone else on a job, they all have they're own quirks and that makes it interesting. As long as they're prepared to join the team and get the job done safely they're ok in my book, I don't particularily care where they come from.

People with vast aeronautical experience get banned here all the time. Why, I don't know.

Well, I am inclined to go along with Lord Spandex Masher and kms901 based on what has been printed backside of American seasonal routeing charts and what happened to Hyundai Giant back in '99.

American pilot: "Anybody got a ride report track yankee 40 west. We got light chop here.

British pilot: Inner monologue: Oh fer ficks sake shut up"

One of the better threads on Proon for a while!

What do you get when you cross a British pilot with an American pilot?

A Canadian pilot...:E

What do you get when you cross a British pilot with an American
pilot?

A Canadian pilot...http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif


Anyone saying Canadians aren't fun to fly with are those narrow-minded types who can't get past seeing skates worn in the cockpit. It's their version of spurs, so not a big deal.

PD....not much....as there are some things even an American Pilot will not do!

I notice that there are adverts on pprune popping up:
for Pilot's Life Insurance.

Why do GODS need life insurance?

signed

a puzzled lower-than-the-low cargo (hawk spit) ground person

Given some thought to this question, the answer is...

American don't dream about being British pilots.

GF

Hat, Kevlar Vest, Door

Personally, I'm sticking with accents. :p

Then again, while hot in OKC, it isn't like Dubai! Season to be teetotaling and fasting, hereabouts.

GF

We got close, 113f/45c. :uhoh:

American don't dream about being British pilots.

That's a bit harsh on your compatriots GF. Surely some of the more imaginative individuals must have the ambition ?

Touche ! ;)

True, and the majority of pilots in Dubai are expat. Therefore, no 'home advantage' to a particular group. When you have this, a more balanced observation is perhaps possible?

I've got around 25,000 hours with 1 or 2 thousand pilots. I've only flown for American companies or armed forces. A few hundred or so pilots I've flown with were from the spectrum of nationalities.

Based on that, I don't think there is any difference in talent. Americans are less formal than Brits, and I think as a result, less rigid. I'd give Americans a slight edge to respond better in a crisis or emergency due to their generally greater flexibility and open thinking nature. But it's a close call and debateable. And there are always exceptions to any cultural rule.

Tempsford

I'm only visiting from the US for a week, not representing anyone, just adding a bit of sarcastic spice to the proceedings. It is Jet Bast, after all. Stand you a drink, if you have a "watering hole" that serves here.

GF

Are the 'watering holes' shut down for Ramadan then?

Or have things changed drastically since I've been in Dubai? :ooh:

Mostly, yes. I think the Irish Village is open after dark, 8 pm. Not part of the in scene here.

GF

I was an EF-111A EWO for three years at RAF Upper Heyford in the 80s. That was certainly the high point of my 20 years in the USAF.

I had the opportunity to work and fly with the RAF and the Royal Navy on a number of occasions. I never perceived any difference in aircrew ability that was out of the noise level. The Brits liked to fly lower than we usually did, maybe we can debate that tactic some day.

The thing about the Brits that puzzled me the whole time I lived there was this: How can a country that produced the Spitfire, the Vulcan bomber, the Concord, and those cool old steam powered trains not have figured how to build a house that had decent plumbing and heating systems?

I mean really, a toilet tank in the attic to supply your bathroom with water? A five gallon hot water tank? For washing and heating!

The Romans had real plumbing, I would have thought the Brits would have picked up some pointers from them. But no.

A recently constructed house with these little pathetic radiators and a coal fired fireplace for heat? WTF!

I'm sure that all these years latter that 20th century plumbing must have arrived in the UK by now. But if it hasn't, you could do worse than hire some Texas plumbers to show your folks how these things are done.

One other thing. When I bought my house in Brackley it was fairly new, but didn't have an outside hose bib. I wanted to keep my car clean out of habit and just for 'keeping up the side' reasons. To correctly wash a car you need a hose with actual water pressure.

I found out that all I had to do was pay one flat fee and a plumber could install an outside hose bib that was directly connected to the 'rising main' (i.e. city water with actual water pressure). And there was NO WATER METER!!!!!! In Brackely at that time water was billed as a flat fee per month!!!

Since I grew up in drought plagued Texas where water is expensive the idea of flat fee water was stunning. Almost unbelievable.

That was one many pleasant surprises that made my stay in the UK so much fun.

There was a lot to like about living and flying in the UK. Plenty enough to make up for the neanderthal plumbing systems and drafty cold houses.

The main difference between US and British pilots, I have found, is waist size.

I have worked with several Americans who needed a good run up to get through the cockpit door opening, and who could only rotate by grabbing on to the stick and sliding the seat backwards.

That was a cheap shot. I admire both groups of pilots. I am trying to come up with a come back but can't. Maybe us US guys can modify a visual approach that becomes a slam dunk better but since I retired I guess that isn't true with all the tell tale info sent back to company about descent rate and speed below 1,000 ft. It is dumbed down to so stupid pilots can fly too.

Cant wait any longer.

Differences between USA Pilots and British Pilots

now folks, this is jetblast, so let it all hang out



Isn't one difference that British Pilots tend to ensure the validity of the target BEFORE engaging............:uhoh:


Jus sayin like.

That was a cheap shot.Not at all. Willy from Philly was a prime example. He couldn't go anywhere near any body of water lest he be harpooned.

It is dumbed down to so stupid pilots can fly too.In the old days stupid pilots could make it through an entire career, these days with all the tell tale info sent back to company, they get found out much sooner.

I am trying to come up with a come back but can't.See above.

When you have a Token Air Force....it is a bit presumptuous to brag isn't it Stumps?

In the past enegry management for noise and economy was our airlines procedure. We were high on glide slope into SJC as a standard procedure not reaching glideslope until about 500 ft. We all did it with no problem for years. Now with the automatic snitch through ACARS you get busted. Now the weekest pilots can land with their mediocre talent. I guess that makes sense for some, not me.

SASless

When you have a Token Air Force....it is a bit presumptuous to brag isn't it
Stumps?


Not to mention the presumption that there's an instinct to engage in the first place.

From an Irish point of view, if I can interject. There isn't much, the accent yes, the waistline yes, a degree of arrogance yes. But mostly the Brits don't take themselves so seriously. All too often Americans seem to believe their life is like some kind of movie in the Bourne series. The Brits pretend they're like Bond but really they know it's more like Johnny English.

Americans are often intimidated by an English accent. You don't need to be.

Americans are often intimidated by an English accent. You don't need to be.

What happens when you're an American with a English accent, does one intimidate themselves? :p

bluecode

From an Irish point of view, if I can interject. There isn't much, the accent yes, the waistline yes, a degree of arrogance yes. But mostly the Brits don't take themselves so seriously. All too often Americans seem to believe their life is like some kind of movie in the Bourne series. The Brits pretend they're like Bond but really they know it's more like Johnny English.


The Americans have Bourne and the Brits have Bond for action heroes. For the Irish, there's always....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C21l29hurRI

Oh, and it was a PBY Catalina of Coastal Command, illegally being flown by a US NAVY Ensign that spotted the BISMARK.




and


It was not until 1010 on 26 May that British luck changed. A British Catalina aircraft of No. 209 Squadron, piloted by US Navy observer Ensign Leonard B. Smith, USNR (US Naval Reserve), spotted Bismarck at a range of about eight miles. While Ensign Smith flew the aircraft and evaded accurate German antiaircraft fire, his British copilot radioed a report of the enemy warship's location


Used to work in the same airline as Dennis Briggs, who was the captain of the Catalina, the story he told was quite different. The Bismark was spotted by the guys at the front, the American was further back in the aircraft and radioed the position. Churchill insisted that the American be given prominence in order to recognise the USA's war efforts.

Main difference between American and British pilots? Eating habits.

There was a little air war museum nearby to chez Caco located at Blake Hall.

Blake Hall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Hall)

(Sadly now closed. The fact that the hall is now dedicated to weddings and parties only says more about our priorities here than I would wish to comment upon).

The photographs of those American pilots who volunteered and flew here in Britain well before the US entered the war always made me think that there were very few differences between UK and US pilots when it came to dedication and courage and that there is no reason to suppose that any of that has changed over the years.

Caco

Which point? you don't have any .Mate, You REALLY should start learning history instead of inventing it.
Bismarck was spotted by an American built Catalina plane piloted by the American Leonard ' Tuck' Smith who was teaching his British student Dennis Briggs how to fly it and she was not seriously damaged and still fast enough to outran the RN ships !! Had Admiral Lütjens not been on board Bismarck , Captain Lindemann would have chased the Prince of Wales and sent her to the bottom of the Atlantic too ,what a lucky ship was Prince of Wales. .

Having lived in both countries, I had the impression that this collective inferiority complex was more prevalent among Brits than Americans.