CASA "Operational Check" required for Medical renewal.

[Ozgrade3]

Got a letter back from CASA yesterday saying that they wont renew my class 1 medical untill I do an operational check with a CASA FOI because my BMI is over 37. Currently 38.9 They are interestyed in my ability to enter, exit the aircraft and my ability to assist pax to evacuate the a/c in an emergancy situation, and ability to use the controls of the a/c.

Yeah I'm a little portly as allways happens in winter but I play squash no probs, ride 50km on my bike with no issues. I'm naturally a stocky sort being an ex swimmer and cyclist.My BMI has been around 38 since I was 20, never a problem before, so why now all of a sudden.

So now im in crisis mode, trying to lose some kilos ASAP, at least I have the time after being placed on indefinite leave from work. My career hangs on the opinion of a single person.

Has anyone else been through this "operational cjheck".

So anyone else comming up for a medical, make sure ur BMI is under 37.

[Horatio Leafblower]

G'day Oggie,

Been a long time between drinks old chum!

I did one for a student with Ankylising Spondylitis (basically full-body arthritis) - they were worried he wouldn't be able to turn his head/shoulders to do a proper lookout.

Having an FOI do the check is big time, though.:uhoh:

Losing the kilos will benefit you anyway. Do it.

[Blockla]

I suspect you have triggered an age/BMI combo which is why it's a problem now and not before... I worked with a extremely fit triathlete who had to do an operational check as his standing heart rate was too low. The doctor who did the check took one look at him and said 'next'.

Good luck in passing your check, I suspect it won't be an issue unless you are physically unable to get in an out of your seat and your resting mass is touching things it shouldn't when in the seat...

Still a little motivation to loose a few kgs must be a good thing? I've seen a few people get put on a weight loss program with a target BMI, without a suspension, but threat thereof if they didn't shape up, but that's on the ATC side not flying side.

[in-cog-nito]

I know someone who had to this a few years ago. Similar reason, BMI too high. From what I remember, part of it was to see if he could get out of the aeroplane in a timely fashion in the event of an emergency evacuation.

[Grogmonster]

The BMI table is crap. Its based on very old statistics. Anyone who is over 6 ft 2 inches in the old measure will tell you that to fit into the BMI table they are so thin that people start asking if they are ok. I know a guy who is 6 ft 4 inches tall and weighs 117 kg with a rested heart rate of 63 who would blow thw BMI table off the planet. I for one would never have the balls to tell him he is unfit.

Groggy

[Ozgrade3]

Well, the mrs has decided to take charge.

The cupboard and fridge have been emptied of all junk food, including my secret stash of double choc chip cookies. We've just been for a "walk".......actually more akin to frog march with 'cmon, get a move on , who do you expect top get your medicval back if you dawdle like that'..........honestly she'd give Usane Bolt a run for his money.

A treadmill has been orded......:ouch:

Now she says if that doesnt work, she will make me join her pole dancing fitness class. Now you have to picture the instructor, a gorgeous little thing, all of 5 foot nothing and weighs 48kg in a wet sack. But.........she makes a military drill sargent look like a wus. She is one scarey unit.

[Metro man]

With a BMI like that you may need to look a becoming a AIRBUS pilot so you can pull back on a side stick rather than a control yoke:hmm:

Seriously you need to get on a diet of you have any career ambitions, Emirates wouldn't even interview you, they ask for BMI on their application form.

[Capt Fathom]

Metro,

As others have indicated here, your BMI is not the be all end all.

I have flown with guys with BMI's through the roof! They were athletes carrying very little fat.

However, eyebrow's were raised at the level of their BMI's.

What do they do? Stop participating in life and become walking skeletons?

[RANT ON]

The CASA medical section really need to get out of their Canberra offices and smell the roses!

What's with this BS about BMI and Alcohol and Drugs all of a sudden?

Public Servants justifying their positions!

[/RANT OFF]

[jas24zzk]

Interesting.
There was piece in the rag a few weeks back where the AMA were flapping their gums that BMI was no longer considered a good indicator of a persons health.

i.e they worked out you could simply be a vertically challenged walking ball of muscle that skews the BMI result.

Using BMI as a guide to a persons ability to enter/exit an aeroplane is a crock. I know (sorry) elder guys that easily fit into the BMI index, but due to age have mobility issues.

Personally i think having a larger BMI helps aid your pax exiting, becuase you are large enough to 'aid them on their way out the door' :O

[MadMadMike]

Yes, you can be an athlete who is a walking ball of muscle with low body fat and have a off the scale BMI... But are you?

People love to cite examples of athletes and uncommon exceptions to rationalise to themselves that BMI is meaningless to them.

It is not. BMI is a perfectly suitable indicator for the general population.

You are not the exception and neither is 99% of the population, if your BMI says you obese then you very likely are. Take it as a wake up call and an opportunity to ensure you retain your medical for as long as possible. If your BMI is 38+ now then the clock is already ticking for losing it for a more serious reason in the very near future.. Ones that can't be solved by throwing out the hidden bickies.

[metalman2]

Just been through the whole BMI thing for a class 2 medical, got sent for a GTT ( diabetes ), and past with no dramas , also got a CASA letter stating I have to do it all again next time.
The result , I've decided I've had a good run eating crap food and have got on the healthy wagon , so far shed about 14 kg. The diet lady reckons my ideal weight for my 6'3 frame is 87 kg, yeh like that's going to happen, I'm going to be happy with any where below 100kg , oh yeh, and I've discovered I can fit into an RV7 after all, and that's real motivation!

[Capt Fathom]

Talk about timing!
I may have to exclude Alcohol from my rant above! Maybe it is a problem?

DG&P Reporting Points (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/492274-suspicion-being-under-influence.html)

[601]

87 kg

Should just about cover the bone mass.

[The Voice]

Hiya OG3 ... Longtime :) love your significant others attitude .. Play the game kick some ass :)

[metalman2]

Yeh 87kg,,, told her the last time I was near that was 25 years ago and running half the length of the gold coast , training for three hours and running home,,,, that kinda energy just doesn't live here no more!!!!

[notaplanegeek]

What is your percentage of body fat? BMI does not take into account muscle. I love it when I go to the doctor and they say with my current BMI I am 'obese' haha.

[poohead]

I suspect you have triggered an age/BMI combo which is why it's a problem now
and not before...



This is probably very close to the reason why. There's a little thing called a 'cardiac risk table' or similar that is used in more and more medical assessments in recent times. Once you get older, increased BMI etc it starts putting you into the higher end of a chance to have a 'cardiac event'. It also takes into account if you're a smoker and elevated levels of cholesterol so it would become harder and harder for either a medical officer or in your case a CASA official to sign their name to it accepting the risk

All the best

[aroa]

On one Cl 2 medical, I noted the Doc put my height down for my weight, and weight for height. I made no comment to see if I later got any query about how can a globular midget could even reach the pedals, let alone get into the aeroplane.
Filed without comment. Was a lot younger then so prob not seen as a cardic risk !!
I think that was the same Doc with the opening comment "you look well !", he was gone with the urine sample for about 2.5 seconds, sugar ok and the whole "medical" was done and dusted in about 5 minutes.
Never mind ..just a PPL so why should one get value for money.
Now of course you can do it with a Drivers Licence med and ops restrictions.
Safer, of course..:eek:

[Ozgrade3]

Well I've been trying to get hold of CASA for 2 days, someone, anyone. To organise my 'assesment".

They dont answer phones.

They don't call back, despite leaving numerous voice mails.

They dont reaspond to emails.

Starting to feel very despondant and frustrated.

[185skywagon]

Probably gone to ground after disclosing operators email addresses to all and sundry last week.

[Nautilus Blue]

Look at it this way. If CASA (or anyone) believed the BMI was an infallible and absolute measure they would bin your medical based on that alone. They know its only an indication of a possible issue, so they arrange a real world test, the results of which supersede the BMI.

With regards to the lousy service, I would suspect staffing levels. When I had an issue with my medical a while back there appeared to be only two people processing medicals for the whole country. Any issue with a medical seems to involve a lot of frustrating waiting and stress, just what you need.

[Horatio Leafblower]

I recently had to give them some stick in the Medical dept too.

I rang my local member, told them it would not only cost me my career but the jobs of 15 of his constituents. Elicited a response real quick :rolleyes:

[VH-XXX]

To put it into perspective, mine is currently 27 and I'm considered obese at 85 kg's.

To get to your BMI I would need to put on 35 kilo's.

Better hit that treadmill !

[Horatio Leafblower]

I am guessing OG3 to be about 105kg and 5'5".

:=

[The Voice]

I'd have said taller Horrie .. I'm 5'8.5" and I thought he was closer to my height .. but it has been a while

[Two_dogs]

185 Skywagon, on a positive note, due to that email my contacts list is now filled with 463 new friends and industry contacts! :cool:

[Ozgrade3]

I'm 5.7 and a bit and 112kg. I finished last summer at 98kg and was feeling great, but come winter, several bouts of flu and the usual bugs that occur over winter, coupled with not being able to get out and ride due to 4 months of horrible weather has seen me put on 10kg.

Trouble is I used to be untill I was 20 a competition swimmer and cyclist. I still have ths swimming shoulders and legs like Dean Lukin, i dont seem to loose muscle mas. if I go to the gym and lift weights, I shrink 2 inches around the waist....but get heavier.

So legs n shoulders are ok just the middle bit is a worry.

Still pretty fit though, played squash tonight and had no probs at all.

Maybe I should try to do my medical at the end of summer.

[Look Mum - no hands]

If push comes to shove and you find yourself doing this "check", make sure you take a mate with a flash looking suit and tie to record the whole deal on a digital video camera - CASA's staff will barely answer the phone without legal counsel present, so neither should you.

(If you can afford it, you could even get a real lawyer!)

[compressor stall]

Once had a friendly DAME redo my ECG after making me do some exercise as my resting pulse was below 50 and said that the would have triggered alarm bells in CASA as it didnt fit the normal profile. They ould seem to have their interpretation of normal and you're outside it.

[Clare Prop]

I did one of these checks for a lass who due to injury hadn't been able to exercise and had piled on some kilos, she was also well above average height and didn't look wobbly obese to me but had a BMI up around 38. I had to certify to CASA that she was able to exit the aircraft quickly and had full and free movement of the controls. It's not a big deal.

[Hasselhof]

The problem here is that CASA has systematically and intentionally removed the powers of making sound medical determinations from DAMEs. For Christ sake, the professional you go see to get the medical done is an EXPERT in their field and has the training and judgement to make a good risk based assessment of each and every individual. Canberra having to rubber stamp every single little detail that a doctor fills in is just an insult to the GP's that have gone out I'd their way to become DAMEs.

[VH-XXX]

When I was in the Army the medics did the "wiggle" test.

You stand there and wiggle from side to side and stop abruptly. If your gut keeps wiggling you are told that you need to lose weight.

[Fantome]

They dont answer phones.

They don't call back, despite leaving numerous voice mails.

They dont respond to emails.


Normal for AVMED got to find a fix somehow somewhere


Last month finally spoke with a real live human She said she'd hang up on me if I didn't simmer down.

[Ozgrade3]

Some progress at last.

After trying to get hold of CASA for days, I decided to call my company's supervising FOI. "No probs he said I'll sort it out for you, I know you're keen to get back to work...etc etc"

A couple days later he called me back as promised and said he cant get any sense out of medical, "so im making an executive decisio, get an ATO to asses you and all will be fine"

So yesterday I had an independant ATO watch me get in, get out, manipulate the controls etc etc and an hr later I had a letter from the ATO saying that i was as fit as a malley bull and posted the paperwork back to avmed.

So a big thank you to our FOI who really seems to care about whats happening to the people in is domain. Their are some good decent people within CASA.

[The Voice]

Just goes to show that common sense does prevail in this industry! .. well done Oggie :)