View Full Version : Question...what is modular?
3rd Aug 2012, 22:54
ok...I'm one of those American guys who doesn't understand the British way of doing things.
will someone tell me what ''MODULAR" means in regard to flight training?
will someone tell me what "integrated" means in regard to flight training./?
will someone compare and contrast them for me?
I'm sure we use different terms over here. (and FYI...I'm CFIIMEIATPMEL737)
And why don't you guys think about going to an aviation university or a university with an aviation department...over here?
3rd Aug 2012, 23:43
I paid my dues afro!
but about the modular thing?????
and listen...good luck to you mate!
3rd Aug 2012, 23:59
again...IN ENGLISH...what is MODULAR and what is INTEGRATED flight training?
4th Aug 2012, 02:01
Again, also...... IN ENGLISH
Para 18.104.22.168 &22.214.171.124 of the above link.
4th Aug 2012, 02:31
Modular (or 'self improver') vs Integrated is the UK equivalent of Part 61 vs 141. Typically an Integrated student will go from 0 hours to a commercial licence, instrument rating, ATPL theory exams completed and, increasingly, complete a multi crew cooperation course (MCC) rather than the US way one can do, say, a Part141 PPL somewhere then do a Part 141 iinstrument rating elsewhere.
They use the term 'frozen ATPL' for that CPL/IR/ATPL theory but it's a complete misnomer. It's no more an ATPL - frozen, liquid, gaseous or whatever - than a Private Licence with passes in the commercial exams is a 'frozen CPL', or a Student Licence holder with a pass in the PPL exams has a 'frozen PPL'.
4th Aug 2012, 02:33
proof positive that I am an airline pilot...I am too cheap to have a brand new computer that can handle the above link...
but I want to thank the nice person who sent me a private message explaining the terminology.
and that is why someone like the above person will get ahead in aviation and those who just provided a lame link won't.
And to those who ask, INTEGRATED or modular...DO IT MODULAR...it gives you more options.
4th Aug 2012, 05:35
Sorry for the off topic but sevenstroke, try this this to make that PDF file work, Download Acrobat Reader for Windows | Old Version.com (http://www.oldversion.com/Acrobat-Reader.html) - get version 7.08 or 6.01 and it will run nicely on an old computer. Just disable the updates thing when it shouts at you to upgrade!
4th Aug 2012, 07:27
thanks tinstaffl...especially for the comparison between part 61 and 141
and for the terminology, ''frozen atpl''.
such terms! at least DP DAVIES put a comparison of us vs uk terms in his book...like reheat and spectacle!
thanks too giggity...but I have an apple, not a windows. but thanks for helping.
all the best
Genghis the Engineer
4th Aug 2012, 09:01
fATPL = CPL + ME/IR + MCC with the full set of ATPL (rather than separate CPL and IR) written exam passes. Legally speaking however, it's still just a CPL/ME/IR.
ATPL = fATPL with at least 1500TT of which 500 multi-crew then an ATPL kill test, required to command a multi-crew aircraft with pax on board.
Modular = doing the bits you want / need, in your own time, under your own management, with one or more training providers. Requires at-least 250 hrs.
Integrated = doing the fATPL from zero to hero with a single training provider, approved to do this by the CAA, no separate hourbuilding, no separate PPL, can I think be done in 175 hrs. Preferred apparently by some airlines, disparaged by many in other flying environments as overpriced and creating pilots who are incapable of doing anything but operate to strict procedures in a corporate environment.
Typical bill for modular fATPL ~£50k
Typical bill for integrated fATPL ~£90k.
There are two reasons for a European not to go to a US aviation department:
(1) An FAA licence isn't useable in Europe
(2) The degrees they award are pretty much worthless academically.
Genghis the Engineer
4th Aug 2012, 10:11
You have to make allowances for the strange behaviour of mac users Cityflyer, but you could have just answered his question - regulations and reality are not quite the same, any more than the bible or q'uran explain the strange behaviour of many religious groups.
4th Aug 2012, 10:55
Odd seventrokeroll. Am I right in thinking you did not know what integrated or modular is. Yet you say "And to those who ask, INTEGRATED or modular...DO IT MODULAR...it gives you more options". Odd. It didn't take you long to reach such a conclusion.
4th Aug 2012, 15:19
I'd say that once it was translated into familiar terms seven... understands the difference well enough.
4th Aug 2012, 19:09
These fully residential courses offer the quickest means of qualifying for a Commercial Pilotís Licence
No they don't, an intelligent techinical background modular pilot can clean up in less time. Especially if they are willing to fudge the solo groundschool crap to include the fact that it will be the third if not the forth time they have look at subjects.
You can knock the technical ATPL subjects off in two months with a month brush up and exams and the none tech in a month and a month brush up and exams.
PLL 3 weeks
Hour build 4 weeks
CPL two weeks
IR if FNPT II 6 weeks
IR in FNPT I 7-10 weeks.
MCC two weeks.
I was just shy of 12 months start to finish while holding down a full time job. I was meeting folk on the brush ups that were only halfway through the residential ground school modual 1 after seeing them on the brush up for mod one whenb coming back for mod 2.
And spice it really doesn't take much to realise that fact when your paying for it yourself and you have an above 100 IQ and your are not taken in by the marketing.
If you are on a scheme go for it paying your own way you have to be bonkers.
4th Aug 2012, 20:36
tinstaffl...thank you for understanding
cityflyer...gosh you europeans are different than us . We just answer the question. Like one guy said, I probably have more time in the flare than you have time!
spicejetter...integrated and modular are just terms for the same thing we have here in the USA. But England and the USA are seperated by a common language. You say things like REHEAT and we say AFTERBURNING/afterburner.
We say YOKE and you say SPECTACLES.
why not call the whole thing off? (music cue).
You say circuit and we say traffic pattern. If I said: I had a problem in the circuit. I would expect my friends would understand it was an electrical problem. I would say vaccuum tube and you would say valve.
But I do know that places go out of business without refunding your up front money from here to timbuktu. I know one poor kid in Nevada who put up 5000 US Dollars to get a ''deal'' on Seneca ONE time. Two weeks later, the plane crapped out and he couldn't get his money back. TWO huge mistakes...seneca ONE, and putting money up in advance.
And to the guys who say US licenses can't be used in europe...that may be true....but we have the jobs!
I just asked a question...slang terms aside...trying to communicate is your duty as a pilot.
by the way, I don't think you can even take the ATP writtens in the USA without having the full 1500 hours (in specific areas). I remember having my log book audited by the FAA to allow me to take the written. Of course this was in prehistoric times . You know...NDB approaches, no autopilot and having know how to enter holding all by yourself without a box to tell you what to do.
don't pay up front for LIFETIME dancing lessons
don't pay up front for orthodontia
don't pay up front for flying lessons.
pay as you go.
and don't buy the brooklyn bridge
4th Aug 2012, 23:28
There are flying jobs in the US?
Since when? I recall there being more unemployed pilots in the US than in Europe.
5th Aug 2012, 00:01
well, I am no expert, but my airline just hired a class of pilots. (major us airline).
we have our ups and downs...of course we don't have frozen atp's...except on walkarounds in buffalo.
Lord Spandex Masher
5th Aug 2012, 00:18
Like one guy said, I probably have more time in the flare than you have time!
Let us all bow before the mighty. Quite how that is relevant is a mystery.
trying to communicate is your duty as a pilot
Firstly, one might care to look in the mirror.
Secondly, contributions here do not form part of anyone's duty as a pilot.
Here's an interesting fact. I paid up front, in full, for an integrated course. I didn't lose anything.
So your blanket statement is somewhat presumptuous as you can not know the exact financial circumstances of the people you are advising(!) and or every flying school.
5th Aug 2012, 00:55
glad it worked out for you lord spandex masher...like I said in my example, someone I know lost a whole bunch of money...but that's life.
duty as a pilot...hmmm...sounds like agood topic for jetblast.