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Iron Hide
27th Jul 2012, 07:54
Any truth to the latest rumor that Air NZ's hold pool to be depleted next year and interviewing to finally start up again?

I've heard 3 - 4 rounds with 25 - 40 starts per year for the foreseeable future. Maybe someone in the know could elaborate.

Cheers

27/09
27th Jul 2012, 10:19
Iron Hide
Any truth to the latest rumor that Air NZ's hold pool to be depleted next year and interviewing to finally start up again?

I've heard 3 - 4 rounds with 25 - 40 starts per year for the foreseeable future. Maybe someone in the know could elaborate.

Cheers

Actually they've been recruiting steadily this year, it called recruit to group. From what I hear probably in excess of 40 starts per year.

SkySurfin
27th Jul 2012, 20:15
Iron hide you are correct. There was an internal memo sent out yesterday with those exact numbers, they are applicable to jet fleet recruitment only. 6 pilots have just been given starts in September- 2 on the 767 and 4 on the 777.

They plan to keep the hold pool at around 25 pilots not 50 as in previous years with the intent of handing out starts within 12 months of interview.

They also outlined the preferences in terms of experience which they take into account when searching for suitable candidates. I will abbreviate them in order for the benefit of pilots looking at a career on the jet fleet with Air NZ.

1. Preferably from Air NZ link
2. Command time
3. Multi time
4. Turbine time
5. ATO OPs
6. IFR experience
7. IFR currency


They mention that all new hires will start as an SO on either 767 or 777

The interview process will include-
Sim
Formal interview
Tech quiz
Group exercise and 1:1 role play :-s
Pshyc testing (which they have trialled with the regional airline RTG)


I hope this helps anyone out there looking to join Air NZ.
Cheers

minimum_wage
27th Jul 2012, 22:14
So number one experience preference for the jet fleet is non jet pilots, and the number two experience preference is command time for second officer positions. Seems kinda ironic.
But good luck the guys in the links who have been patiently waiting for some time. Hope it happens for you soon :ok:

Pamelah Andersen
28th Jul 2012, 02:30
Don't waste your time waiting for Air NZ.

Join Virgin or go offshore.

With most captains reverting to FO at age 65 anyone joining now will be an SO for at least a decade on minimum wage. Remember SO time is worthless and not recognised by Emirates etc.

billyt
28th Jul 2012, 11:29
If you need to live in NZ then apply. Expect up to 10 years in the centre seat.

If you don't need to live in NZ then go where promotion is quicker.

This thread is in the wrong forum. It should be in

DG&P Reporting Points - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points-90/)

juliet
28th Jul 2012, 20:24
Pamelah - most Captains are NOT moving to the right hand seat, some are. There are in fact also a reasonable number of Captains leaving before they are 65. Have no idea about Emirates but SO time at ANZ is not the same as at Cathay where the pilot holds a P2X. An ANZ SO type rating shows the same as any other pilots at ANZ. If you want to go to Virgin or offshore go by all means, ANZ isn't the be all and end all, but its pretty good, and much better than a lot of other options out there.

Raropilot - its competitive out there, so yeah, some basic educational requirements are needed. A degree isn't a must have.

Billyt - maybe 10 years, current guys are around the 8 year mark but that is coming down for those following. If you're worried about doing takeoffs and landings and can't bear to watch someone else do it then there are the Links/Jetstar/overseas. If your interested in money/time off/lifestyle/stability then ANZ is hard to beat.

Juliet

Offcut
29th Jul 2012, 07:40
Pamelah, I hate to burst your bubble but S/O's do a bit better than min wage. My taxable income last year was in the region of 115k, plus allowances and super. That said, anyone applying should go in with their eyes wide open. You will be an S/O for at least five years before an A320 job comes up, and it could be 8-9 years. It is frustrating as hell but that's the ball game. Air NZ S/O's hold full type ratings and log all flying as co-pilot time, however, it is of limited use when it comes to applying to other jobs and won't get you into Emirates if you change your mind. You are basically throwing your lot in with Air NZ when you take an S/O job.

juliet
29th Jul 2012, 09:40
Hadn't spotted the bit in Pamelahs post about minimum wage. What world are some of these people living in! Yes you will be on the initial few levels of the pay scale, but its bloody good money and more than you will make if you were to fly for someone else in NZ.

Feel free to go to Emirates, plenty of other guys willing to wait for the ANZ spot.

27/09
30th Jul 2012, 09:14
If you need to live in NZ then apply. Expect up to 10 years in the centre seat.

If you don't need to live in NZ then go where promotion is quicker.

This thread is in the wrong forum. It should be in

DG&P Reporting Points - PPRuNe Forums


Billy T, I agree however look here. http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/491603-question-moderators.html

Offcut
30th Jul 2012, 21:40
If you aren't too bothered what country you live in then you would have rocks in your head to apply to Air NZ. Short of a Cathay AKL base, which it appears are no longer available, then Air NZ is the best gig in town by a long shot. But you will make more money and get promoted faster pretty much anywhere else offshore.

To those of you thinking about applying to Air NZ, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. They are, good rosters/time off, rock solid seniority system, nice hotels, decent allowances, and one day in the distant future, the promise of a widebody command. If you are a young thruster who loves stick and rudder and want to fly the big jets........, go to JetStar, get some hours and bugger off to the sandpit.

pakeha-boy
30th Jul 2012, 22:18
juliet quote...."If your interested in money/time off/lifestyle/stability then ANZ is hard to beat."...................B****E!!!!!!!

MATE ...Started out in kiwi...as a kiwi...flying....buggered off.......some of us just didnt have the pedigree.....Tired of hearing that kiwi is the only place for the above.....

Have quite a few years in NTH and STH America,kiwi,oz,and now asia.....have all of the above and have never regretted it...have a place in Auckland and pohara.......have always had money,time off,lifestyle and stability.....some of you were still swinging in your dads bags when I was milking cows......

I f you want the so-called "ANZ" 'prestige....go for it....my advice..open the other eye....life is not so bad out side of it........kiwi wont disappear,it wil always be there....

Offcut
31st Jul 2012, 05:36
Pakeha boy, I think what he was getting at was it is the best option IF you want to stay in NZ. We all know there is a big world out there, but for those of us that choose to live and work in NZ then Air NZ the best bet as far as I can see. And no, I don't do it for the "prestige". It may surprise you that most of the guys and girls in Air NZ have worked offshore and chose to return home. We aren't all small town simpletons who think NZ is the centre of world aviation.

slamer.
31st Jul 2012, 23:44
"The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks."

pakeha-boy
1st Aug 2012, 00:22
yeah mate...was just taking the piss a little bit..a lot really....sort of thought some of it was bloody obvious...then again........have many good mates at ANZ....just love to take a bit of a poke once in a while.........those of us that left were always the better pilots.....they know it......INCOMING!!!!.....:E

slamer.
1st Aug 2012, 01:32
And there was me thinking it was the Australians ...!

juliet
5th Aug 2012, 04:20
Pakeha boy,

One of the first things I said was that anz isn't the be all and end all. I know that because I too have flown all over the world and been able to make comparisons. I stand by my comments which are saying that in nz anz is pretty much the best thing going in terms of a combined package of money/time off/stability/lifestyle.

Personally I don't really care about doing take offs and landings or about getting a wide body command, the two big issues people always raise. The simple fact is that Ive done better hands on flying and held commands elsewhere, so I'm not too worried about doing it at anz.

To be honest the more guys that head overseas the better as I have plenty of mates waiting to get in that I would love to share a flight deck with, instead of some of the whingers out there who seem to love just running things down that they don't know anything about.

Ollie Onion
5th Aug 2012, 11:52
I currently have a jet command and would happily join Air New Zealand as an SO. Why??

- Turboprop FO and Command.... been there done that
- Shorthaul FO and Command.... been there done that
- Longhaul FO..... been there done that

After 3 different airlines and the above positions the most important thing to me is, stability in my roster, a good seniority system and the ability to at some point move between long and short haul. Money no longer is the most important thing for me.

At 35 years old, if I joined Air New Zealand I may never see a command again, does that thought worry me... NO. But that is what is great about the world, everyone has a different focus in life.

I have had an application in with Air New Zealand for a few years now and would happily give it a crack if lucky enough to be offered an interview.:ok:

Duff
20th Aug 2012, 06:14
Any truth to the rumour that all yes letters are being re-interviewed over the next few months?

skytops
20th Aug 2012, 08:01
Offcut, Do you mind if I ask what a years's worth of allowances as an SO amounts to? And similarly for your pension?

Thanks.

Water Wings
20th Aug 2012, 10:40
Any truth to the rumour that all yes letters are being re-interviewed over
the next few months?

Umm....this has been going on for a while. The 20 or so starts in the past 18 months all had to complete a short re-interview as do the remaining ones in the hold pool. A small number in the hold pool were also told they were no longer suitable and on the flip side, others have also said "not interested anymore" and gone elsewhere after such a lengthy wait.

WOOLLY
13th Oct 2012, 21:11
I hold an ATPL with 4000 Multi IF Turbine, but understand because I didn't get U.E years ago I wouldn't get a look in at ANZ, heard this through a fellow pilot a month ago who was told to go off and get U.E and they would consider him. He is in his late 30's and has 4500 hours Multi IF, and obviously isn't going to.

Over the years I have flown with many guys in the same situation, many like me have a great jobs, and without U.E. and seem to have the intelligence to learn what is required to fly an aeroplane. One would think ATPL subjects would be an indication of some intellectual ability.

I think you ANZ are missing out on experienced guys due to their HR nonsense of requiring guys to tick boxes in education that really have no relevance to learning what is involved in flying an aeroplane.

I'm not sour as I'm very happy where I am, but when I heard this story I couldn't believe it.

Cheers

Yousef Breckenheimer
13th Oct 2012, 23:09
How long as an SO would new hires expect? I would like to join AIRNZ but not if I have to be at longhaul for the next 10 years.

c100driver
14th Oct 2012, 02:21
Candidates should have a secondary school qualification to enter university or equivalent as determined by the NZ Qualifications Authority. Please refer to Chart 1 below in regards equivalence for Cambridge or International Baccalaureate educational standards.

Candidates who do not hold UE but who have attained all 7 NZCAA ATPL exam credits will also be considered to have met the 'equivalence' standard, providing they have achieved the minimum numeracy and literacy standards required for UE. The ATPL equivalence is subject to the pass/fail conditions described in Chart 2 below.

Candidates who have not achieved the education standards listed above, will be required to undergo AirNZ Equivalence testing, prior to being granted an interview, as an alternative means of demonstrating required levels of cognitive ability. Candidate may be required to sit further testing onsite at an assessment board.

Additionally, applicants who do not meet either of the defined UE or ATPL standards but who have completed a Degree course (either extramurally or as a mature student) are deemed satisfactory subject to their having met the numeracy and literacy standards which are required for UE.

Straight from the airnz site is looks like UE is gone as a requirement.

blah blah blah
14th Oct 2012, 02:25
Just remember guys that even with a lot of hiring at ANZ over the next couple of years there will still be more applicants than jobs.

Those that complain about certain requirements need to think about how they are going to differentiate themselves from every other pilot out there.

Not picking on you Woolly but you're not the only one with 4000 multi IF turbine. That being so what makes you any different than the others? Pilots need to recognise that its not just about hours or having an ATPL. Do something that makes you stand out from the crowd.

Yousef - as discussed many times in threads on here you could easily be an SO for 10 years. The airline industry is cyclical, at some point in a 30-40 year career you will have a slow patch, maybe at the start, maybe in the middle. IF that worries you then airlines may not be for you. If you cant manage a few years of sitting in the jumpseat then Im not sure what you expect to get out of airline flying as sitting in the front two seats isn't much different.

Yousef Breckenheimer
15th Oct 2012, 01:41
I don't care about being an SO, I asked about longhaul. Not interested in flying longhaul forever.

seneca208
15th Oct 2012, 02:10
I don't care about being an SO, I asked about longhaul. Not interested in flying longhaul forever.

Surely its obvious enough that they go together..

blah blah blah
15th Oct 2012, 02:21
Yousef - as ben alludes to, you'll be on long haul for exactly the same length of time as you are an SO. You can swap SO for long haul in my previous comment to get the same answer.

You will maybe have 5-7 years on the Bus as an FO before moving back to long haul. As the Bus is the only aircraft out of a current fleet of 4 types that you may ever see Air NZ may not be for you if you don't want long haul.

Offcut
15th Oct 2012, 08:46
blah blah blah,

You might have that the wrong way around. If by bus, you mean A320. Most people are currently doing 8-9 years as S/O before becoming an A320 F/O. Previously there was the option of 737 FO as an entry level position, or a jump sideways from SO, but with the 737 exiting the fleet soon, that option is all but gone. However, in the past, people have got 737 commands, and 767 FO jobs in as little as 3 years from joining. As mentioned above, there are slow patches, and fast patches. Air NZ's slow patches are worse than others though. There are a lot of A320's due in the next few years, as well as a few 787's coming so fingers crossed this is the start of an upswing.

blah blah blah
15th Oct 2012, 19:27
Cheers Offcut, aware of the situation.

Current guys are likely to do a lot less than 8-9 years as an SO. While there is going to be a big pick up in the next couple of years I think that that will simply speed some guys through to the Bus, where they may well sit as things go back to the traditional progression rates.

737 is all but irrelevant now as, even though there will be the odd new hire course, effectively anyone being hired now wont ever get to fly it.

The way I see it at the moment is to have approximately 3-5 years as an SO, then on to the Bus for 5-7 years. Assuming things go as planned.

I flew with a guy the other day that took 3 years to get to 767 FO. That cant happen anymore because there is the Bus in the mix.

My point in the previous post was simply that someone who doesnt want to do long haul is not going to be happy. Currently they may get onto the Bus relatively quickly, but in somewhere around 5-7 years they will be looking at going back to long haul. How long then to get back to the Bus? 767 and 777 FO slots to fill before a Bus command. 10 years?

Offcut
15th Oct 2012, 20:19
Ahh, got you. Yep, that probably about right. Lets hope they keep the 767 and 747 for a while as well.

Nose wheel first
16th Oct 2012, 00:05
Or get some 747-8I's ...... and pigs might fly

blah blah blah
16th Oct 2012, 00:15
Cant see them getting 748s. Now if only they could get some 772 slots...

My guess is that the 76 will live for a surprisingly long time. And who would bet on when the last couple of 74s will go? Not me, could be years.

27/09
16th Oct 2012, 01:30
My guess is that the 76 will live for a surprisingly long time. And who would bet on when the last couple of 74s will go? Not me, could be years.

Isn't there a rumour going round that they are putting guys back onto the 74?

Lindstrim
16th Oct 2012, 08:15
Yep I know there's a ground course in a couple of weeks for the 74

trimotor
16th Oct 2012, 08:36
Jeez, are they still running courses for the 74?!

As an expact Kiwi, I would have preferred to have stayed and taken whatever Uncle Koru handed out before departing offshore, as lifestyle was more important, and all I ever wanted to do was fly for them...opportunity wasn't there (nil hiring) and a slot had my name on it overseas.

Standing in the United briefing office in LHR several years ago, if was just bloody embarassing when the Air NZ crew burst in and made dicks of themselves with how bloody marvelous they were and how we could all relax now they were here... SO was given the job of briefing, FO looked like he was too bored to case and the capt was a loud obnoxious prat. My crew looked at me, as if to say 'do you know these guys?'. Luckily I didn't..

They looked very much like they thought they were the big fish...though I don't think they reaslised just how big the pond is. Moral of the story is, while Air NZ is the best game in town, it ain't necessarily the best game.

TM

blah blah blah
16th Oct 2012, 18:57
Trimotor - Shocker, Air NZ has the odd clown amongst its 850 pilots. Should I give you the example of the arrogant BA crew? Or the loud and obnoxious American crew?

framer
17th Oct 2012, 00:08
I want an example of a meek and mild Australian crew.

trimotor
18th Oct 2012, 08:37
Blah blah blah: agreed.

The disappointing factor was just that they were effectively representing my country in front of my fellow crew-members and had obviously had the humility bone nullified by a massive dose of over-familiarity or over-confidence.

TM

Roxymoron
2nd Nov 2012, 23:17
So I hear the calls have gone out. Any truth to this?

Iron Hide
3rd Nov 2012, 02:03
Yeah, all those on original yes letters have now been given starts for January or February. Calls out for a November interview round with more to follow. Lots of starts for 2013.

Great to finally see some good movement.