View Full Version : Lack of Stick-Rudder Skills
I'm negatively impressed by the lack of manual flight skills shown by some Captains with whom I fly. Due to operational and safety pressures, most of them are reluctant to fly manually, so they tend to explore the automation of the aircraft to its limits. By doing so it's true that they are following the guidelines of the operational and training departments, but at the same time they are worsen their weaknesses, when it should be otherwise.
Best example is the constant descent profile, without FD's/AP/AT some of them will be unable to fly a satisfactory profile. And during landings, most of the times the AP comes off well bellow minimums.
There is an extreme FMGS/AP dependence, in my opinion it should be mandatory to manually fly one departure and one approach at least once every month.
25th Jul 2012, 19:38
Awesome solution to the problem as well. Bravo!
26th Jul 2012, 03:31
You might like to have a look at this thread then.
26th Jul 2012, 04:12
I think the same may apply to both L and R sides JGSE It is easy to get lazy I agree especially on the One I fly currently. I come from the likes of F27 and B7?7 classic steam driven tack. My suggestion, Maybe you could quietly bring this up with your Trg Dept? rather than complaining about the guy next to you here. Also worth remembering is these Aircraft are designed to use this Automation again especially in busy Controlled crowded Airspace to help.
As for me I am going back to something more classic where you do tend to fly raw data more.
27th Jul 2012, 22:28
Maybe the Captains decide to have fun on the left seat only when they know that the guy on the right is not a dud:ouch:
Exploring weakness and strength on million dollar machines with passengers.Give me a break kid.Go watch Batman or something.
you've either got it, or you havent................................BALLS
and this applies to your whole life, not just flying.
30th Jul 2012, 21:51
Thats the oldest and probably one of the most insidious drugs in the market.Many have died due to its lure (pilots and otherwise).I even had a friend who died of it once.Its called 'Balls Overdose'.
30th Jul 2012, 22:28
Quote......I'm negatively impressed by the lack of manual flight skills shown by some Captains with whom I fly
.....yeah mate...I know how you feel.....some of the F/O,s I fly with are complete numbnuts as well....reckon it falls on both sides of the fence!!!!!
.....just wondering,....are you cabin crew?????,,,they say stuff like this all the time
3rd Aug 2012, 06:08
Hahahahahaha. You're OK Apache.
King on a Wing
3rd Aug 2012, 06:37
So now you need balls to fly an airplane?
What have we come to.
Apache, I smell some dissent in your postings. Could you elaborate please.
Presuming the thread starter is NOT an F/O and presuming that F/O's are genuine numbnuts, can you go on from there...
3rd Aug 2012, 09:43
dont stress dude. if you dont like it, just take over, disconnect the ap and demonstrate your skill. better still do it on a line check or if you are true top gun then on your command upgrade check, do the whole thing ap/at off and fd's off. If you can talk as well as you say you can fly, then im sure the chief pilot will realise this and step down so you can have his job.
3rd Aug 2012, 14:20
Dear Thing on a Wing, I cannot elaborate anymore, Please:rolleyes:
4th Aug 2012, 22:17
Would love to see a demonstration of energy management by many on these forums, especially those automation lovers. Nearing your destination at cruise altitude, autopilot and autothrottles off and maintain a smooth idle descent profile without Vnav or FD guidance, unnoticeable to the passengers and only adding power to vref N1/EPR at the outer marker with flaps in landing configuration.
I fully realize the limitations on practicing an art like this and the lunacy of attempting it on the backside of the clock after a 9 hour flight entering a hold at Ockham or JFK, but if your operation/airport permits it safely, manual flying is a neccessary part of a competent crewmember.
5th Aug 2012, 03:01
Nearing your destination at cruise altitude, autopilot and autothrottles off
Please review RVSM requirements.
5th Aug 2012, 13:40
And you are what? GOD'S GIFT TO AVIATION?
so how many takeoffs and landings do you do in a day? in a week? in month? oh wait, on your recurrent in the sim?
Nice criticizing the ones in the left seat. It's easy to talk the talk but can you really walk the walk?
5th Aug 2012, 17:14
Please review RVSM requirements.
Does not say that autopilot must be engaged. Also once the descent commences it's gonna take one out of RVSM airspace.
Nearing your destination at cruise altitude, autopilot and autothrottles off and maintain a smooth idle descent profile without Vnav or FD guidance, unnoticeable to the passengers and only adding power to vref N1/EPR at the outer marker with flaps in landing configuration.
I do this every time. I also encourage my F/Os to the same. Great confidence builder. Shame the 3 for 1 plus "X" miles has gone out the window or most are just plane lazy resulting in the use of speed brakes.
I would love to see landings within 500' of the touchdown zone and on center line... but that's too much to hope for I guess.
6th Aug 2012, 22:48
Please review RVSM requirements.
Of course. What I meant to say was that I always leave the autopilot engaged above FL290 and use level change with idle power, and then disconnect it and the the AT's below FL290. :E
Same result, same mental planning.
Now if you can tell me the exact meaning of "operational" means "engaged" to the authorities, pints on me.
7th Aug 2012, 03:11
Most probably pints on me however I find no real point to disconnect at FL410 where controls are more sensitive and speed margins may be quite low along with possible ATC step descent in RVSM.
I always encourage pilots to fly below fl 290 in that manner,weather permitting.
In China it is not allowed but hey thats may be why they are quite an...l about it in the sim.
7th Aug 2012, 13:43
LOL I won't trust myself after a long flight to LHR , holding for 15-20 min over biggin or Ockham , then a manual approach and landing ......I can't keep my eyes open after the first hold anyway ! Long haul flying sucks big time .....I'm glad I had the option to move over to domestic and regional flying on the A320.
Im now able to practice manual flying and visual approaches!
Back to normal sleeping and eating patterns
7th Aug 2012, 22:44
LOL I won't trust myself after a long flight to LHR , holding for 15-20 min over biggin or Ockham , then a manual approach and landing ......I can't keep my eyes open after the first hold anyway ! Long haul flying sucks big time ..
With you completely. I fully understand the limitations. Some crews will have zero chance to hand fly and I've also never tried it holding over Ockham on arrival. Too busy using my free hand to hold my eyelids open.:E